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Kickstarter: Bard's Tale IV (inXile, 1.25 mil, PC, Mac, Linux)

Durante

Member
Oct 1, 2006
48,836
1
0
peter.metaclassofnil.com
What was your issue with the poll?
I don't know what his issue with the poll was.

My issue was that it was abundantly clear from the option descriptions that the developers had already made their choice and were just looking for validation (since it was completely different from the game Torment is ostensibly a spiritual sequel to). And when the choice which wasn't favored was looking to win despite that, they edited the options.
 

SL128

Member
Oct 17, 2014
862
0
0
25
Chicago, IL
I don't know what his issue with the poll was.

My issue was that it was abundantly clear from the option descriptions that the developers had already made their choice and were just looking for validation (since it was completely different from the game Torment is ostensibly a spiritual sequel to). And when the choice which wasn't favored was looking to win despite that, they edited the options.
The purpose of the poll was mostly to start a discussion on the pros and cons of each system so they could get extra arguments for RTWP and to address the concerns of its advocates (or turn-based if they changed their minds). That said, I don't remember what they changed for options; could you (or someone) remind me?
 

Brother None

Member
Jun 15, 2007
192
0
0
That said, I don't remember what they changed for options; could you (or someone) remind me?
I too am curious! I was part of setting up that poll and running it and I don't remember making any edits meant to fool or dissuade anyone. And as far as I remember the two options were pretty close throughout, neither one ever took a decisive lead. The results were never going to please everyone and in hindsight if anything we're sorry for that, but accusing us of wrong-doing on this is kind of out there.
 

Ogimachi

Member
Mar 28, 2013
1,990
0
0
I don't know what his issue with the poll was.

My issue was that it was abundantly clear from the option descriptions that the developers had already made their choice and were just looking for validation (since it was completely different from the game Torment is ostensibly a spiritual sequel to). And when the choice which wasn't favored was looking to win despite that, they edited the options.
That's basically it, and it's something most people didn't even expect it to be up to a vote and many backers weren't even aware of before and after backing (only ~20% voted at all).

The purpose of the poll was mostly to start a discussion on the pros and cons of each system so they could get extra arguments for RTWP and to address the concerns of its advocates (or turn-based if they changed their minds). That said, I don't remember what they changed for options; could you (or someone) remind me?
It was the opposite. They wanted turn-based all along, and later clarified that they were already working on a turn-based system.

Right after the poll was created TB was taking a beating, and both options still had very basic descriptions (vote here if you prefer real-time with pause combat, turn-based, indifferent).
InXile didn't like that outcome, so they expanded the options(I'm sure there are pics somewhere). They told backers they wanted turn-based, that they were already working on it, that it'd be easier to adapt, had greater depth (???), etc.

In the end the result was a tie (statistical tie, as they said themselves), so instead of using the system from the original Torment, they went with TB because that's what they wanted and actively tried to push as much as possible during the vote.
It was a fraud because they manipulated the options to favour their own choice and violated the spirit of a democratic vote. Sure, game development is not a democracy by any means, but if they promised a democratic decision by the backers, manipulating the vote is immoral at best.

Some believe (as I do) that they rigged the vote count itself, but there's no way to prove it.
 

Ogimachi

Member
Mar 28, 2013
1,990
0
0
Found some relevant pictures.
This is how the poll looked when it was created (thanks, Durante, it was in your thread):



Later changed into this:


Also extremely relevant:



The poll was a farce all along. It was never our choice, they were just looking to validate theirs however they could.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Jun 7, 2004
36,859
0
1,745
Edmonton
Turn based won, so all is right in the world.

As for Chris Avellone, it'll be cool if they get him, but if I'm being honest, the AG Center in WL2 (his area) was the worst part of that game.
 

SL128

Member
Oct 17, 2014
862
0
0
25
Chicago, IL
That's basically it, and it's something most people didn't even expect it to be up to a vote and many backers weren't even aware of before and after backing (only ~20% voted at all).


It was the opposite. They wanted turn-based all along, and later clarified that they were already working on a turn-based system.

Right after the poll was created TB was taking a beating, and both options still had very basic descriptions (vote here if you prefer real-time with pause combat, turn-based, indifferent).
InXile didn't like that outcome, so they expanded the options(I'm sure there are pics somewhere). They told backers they wanted turn-based, that they were already working on it, that it'd be easier to adapt, had greater depth (???), etc.

In the end the result was a tie (statistical tie, as they said themselves), so instead of using the system from the original Torment, they went with TB because that's what they wanted and actively tried to push as much as possible during the vote.
It was a fraud because they manipulated the options to favour their own choice and violated the spirit of a democratic vote. Sure, game development is not a democracy by any means, but if they promised a democratic decision by the backers, manipulating the vote is immoral at best.

Some believe (as I do) that they rigged the vote count itself, but there's no way to prove it.
What I meant was that they wanted arguments for RTWP so they could improve the turn-based system to include some of the positive aspects RTWP. Again, the poll results were never intended to determine their decision, and they never implied so (I remember Brian Fargo saying in a tweet that disregarding what 50% of people voted for is better than disregarding what 90% of people voted for).

As for only 20% voting, it was mentioned in several backer updates and on many news sites; I don't know how inXile is at fault for people not knowing.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
23,454
1
0
This KS i think is definitely pushing the limits of what a dungeon blobber can achieve really. Between all the free stuff, low cost of entry, awesome looking video, and big names attached, it still is hovering around 1.3. Not sure what more they could have done besides launch a lot earlier in the year before the big influx of KS campaigns.
 

Almighty

Member
Jun 4, 2010
4,427
1
0
Haven't been closely following this, but I am honestly surprised that it is still only around 1.3 million. Then again thinking about it it might make sense as dungeon blobbers are not high on my list and it looks like I am not alone. I am really only backing this because the price is low enough for me to role the dice.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
23,454
1
0
Haven't been closely following this, but I am honestly surprised that it is still only around 1.3 million. Then again thinking about it it might make sense as dungeon blobbers are not high on my list and it looks like I am not alone. I am really only backing this because the price is low enough for me to role the dice.

Yeah like i said, given everything inExile has thrown at this, seems to be just the name and the genre doesnt have as much pull.

Its really difficult to say what would have gotten more backers. I mean, you could raise the price to 30$, and get rid of the early bird tiers, but then there is no guarantee we would be at 30k backers.
 

Brother None

Member
Jun 15, 2007
192
0
0
It's funny, if you'd told me a year ago a turn-based blobber could raise even this much I'd have thought you mad. It's satisfying to see eve this genre can thrive on Kickstarter.

Right after the poll was created TB was taking a beating
TB was ahead in your first screenshot? As I said, it was roughly equal throughout, sometimes one took a bit of a lead, sometimes the other. But I don't recall it ever being far apart, including before we expanded the text which, by the way, is mostly just including the text from the update in case people missed that.

Some believe (as I do) that they rigged the vote count itself, but there's no way to prove it.
Really? Isn't it a more realistic theory to say that, I dunno, Kickstarter RPG fans just like turn-based?
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
23,454
1
0
It's funny, if you'd told me a year ago a turn-based blobber could raise even this much I'd have thought you mad. It's satisfying to see eve this genre can thrive on Kickstarter.


TB was ahead in your first screenshot? As I said, it was roughly equal throughout, sometimes one took a bit of a lead, sometimes the other. But I don't recall it ever being far apart, including before we expanded the text which, by the way, is literally just including the text from the update in case people missed that.


Really? Isn't it a more realistic theory to say that, I dunno, Kickstarter RPG fans just like turn-based?

I hope you guys arent too bummed this hasnt reached torment heights. Hopefully the studio is doing well enough that you all werent relying on this project to keep things afloat etc. I mean Torment should do well for you all and W2 goty should be nice.
 

Ogimachi

Member
Mar 28, 2013
1,990
0
0
What I meant was that they wanted arguments for RTWP so they could improve the turn-based system to include some of the positive aspects RTWP. Again, the poll results were never intended to determine their decision, and they never implied so (I remember Brian Fargo saying in a tweet that disregarding what 50% of people voted for is better than disregarding what 90% of people voted for).

As for only 20% voting, it was mentioned in several backer updates and on many news sites; I don't know how inXile is at fault for people not knowing.
I don't know where you got the impression they were interested in arguments for RTWP. The fact they only listed two "advantages" for it and included several subjective ones to TB ("greater depth"? give me a break).

They created the vote advisory head count to validate the choice they'd already made right from the start, even though combat was barely mentioned in the initial campaign page and only those who were keeping up with all updates in videos and blogs knew there would be a poll after the project had been funded.

TB was ahead in your first screenshot? As I said, it was roughly equal throughout, sometimes one took a bit of a lead, sometimes the other. But I don't recall it ever being far apart, including before we expanded the text which, by the way, is mostly just including the text from the update in case people missed that.
The first picture is almost 2000 votes in.

Really? Isn't it a more realistic theory to say that, I dunno, Kickstarter RPG fans just like turn-based?
Kickstarter RPG is not a genre, and you guys manipulated the poll, so we'll never know.
Still, I'll never believe a neutral, transparent poll about a "spiritual sequel" to a game with real time combat with pause would've had this outcome. And even if it did, a tie should've favoured the original game's system.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
23,454
1
0
Fairfax this thread is about Bards Tale and all you have done is bitch about the damn Torment poll in it. I mean, we dont even have a poll occurring in Bard's Tale right now to loosely connect the two. Stop it already.
 

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Apr 18, 2011
33,525
1
0
Turn based won, so all is right in the world.

As for Chris Avellone, it'll be cool if they get him, but if I'm being honest, the AG Center in WL2 (his area) was the worst part of that game.

It was both the best and the worst, actually. Best written, worst designed.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,169
0
1,010
Kickstarter RPG is not a genre, and you guys manipulated the poll, so we'll never know.
Still, I'll never believe a neutral, transparent poll about a "spiritual sequel" to a game with real time combat with pause would've had this outcome. And even if it did, a tie should've favoured the original game's system.

Of course. Not the system they were more comfortable with or that fit the new game system they were using better.
 

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Apr 18, 2011
33,525
1
0
As much as the game interests me and I believe the fuck in InXile, I'm not going to up to $25 unless we hit MCA.
 

Durante

Member
Oct 1, 2006
48,836
1
0
peter.metaclassofnil.com
I don't know where you got the impression they were interested in arguments for RTWP. The fact they only listed two "advantages" for it and included several subjective ones to TB ("greater depth"? give me a break).
Exactly. It was bullshit.

Fairfax this thread is about Bards Tale and all you have done is bitch about the damn Torment poll in it. I mean, we dont even have a poll occurring in Bard's Tale right now to loosely connect the two. Stop it already.
Ok, to give it more relevance: I'm so pissed off remembering the poll debacle that I don't even know why I'm giving another inXile KS my money.
 

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Apr 18, 2011
33,525
1
0
Exactly. It was bullshit.


Ok, to give it more relevance: I'm so pissed off remembering the poll debacle that I don't even know why I'm giving another inXile KS my money.

Oh no.

A company has to do what is good for it above anything else.

Oh no.
 

Brother None

Member
Jun 15, 2007
192
0
0
I hope you guys arent too bummed this hasnt reached torment heights. Hopefully the studio is doing well enough that you all werent relying on this project to keep things afloat etc. I mean Torment should do well for you all and W2 goty should be nice.
It funded with an ambitious goal, and will still have its final curve up to go. Hard to complain about that!
 

draetenth

Member
Feb 17, 2012
2,831
0
0
I know there are still 9 days to go, but I just don't see them reaching the Chris Avellone stretch goal even if with the normal end of kickstarter boost.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
23,454
1
0
Must've been exasperating to have something like Shenmue III show up when it did though.

I imagine yes and no. Yes cause it took a lot of the news away from it as the current big KS, no because a lot of the people funding Shenmue right now are actually completely new to kickstarter,
 
Feb 28, 2008
4,167
6
1,045
GA,USA
If the folks running the Shenmue III KS were more...savvy...to how this works, I'd like to think they'd give BT IV a shoutout as they get towards the last week considering all those new backers. It definitely makes a difference when all the projects doing well tell their respective audiences about their peers.

If...
 

Eusis

Member
Apr 15, 2011
36,666
1
705
I imagine yes and no. Yes cause it took a lot of the news away from it as the current big KS, no because a lot of the people funding Shenmue right now are actually completely new to kickstarter,
True, in addition to the fact the audience overlap is probably really small, something like Yooka Laylee and Bloodstained at least both appeal to late 90s nostalgia. Still, it definitely grabbed attention because of that, even though the handling of the Kickstarter since makes me suspect they failed to keep the momentum going like it could have.
 

dude

dude
May 18, 2007
6,987
1
1,290
Tel Aviv, Israel
It was both the best and the worst, actually. Best written, worst designed.

Eh, it wasn't that good in either. Though the game's horrendous dialogue system takes a lot of the blame as well.
Anyway, The game really only picked up at the later stages. AG and Highpool were mostly serviceable, the M.A.D Monks is where I started getting into it.
 

hemtae

Member
Nov 4, 2007
4,219
0
0
New update: Party of Six, Other Game Details, The Bard Goes Xounts

One of the topics you have discussed the most is party size.

First off, we have read your arguments regarding expanding the party, and heard you! So we have decided to expand the player party size to six, one of which will be a companion NPC. Additionally, you will have summoned creatures and the like to aid you, which will not count against your party cap. Currently, our plan is to allow you to summon as many additional creatures as there are available grid slots.
 

hemtae

Member
Nov 4, 2007
4,219
0
0
New update: New Add-ons!

Effective immediately, the following add-ons are available to all backers at $20 or above:

  • $40 - Collector's Album Box + shipping ($8 US / $10 Canada / $15 EU / $17 Rest of World)
  • $12 - Digital Strategy Guide
  • $15 - Beta Test Access
  • $30 - Extra Digital Copy of Torment: Tides of Numenera (Windows, Mac and Linux)

 

spindoctor

Member
Oct 21, 2010
7,055
0
780
Will we be able to add these addons after the campaign is over? As in, on their own website (whatever equivalent of Ranger Center they set up for this game)? Or does it have to be done before the KS ends?
 

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
13,888
28,179
1,040
I highly doubt even half of the people getting a Forgiveness Letter are pirates.

I think a lot of people pirated a bit more freely way back when. And a lot of fans of Bard's Tale are older... so, I could see people buying the forgiveness package.

EDIT - holy crap. 1.9m = equipment visible on characters in inventory. i'm not generally a big fan of 'dressup' games [best armor, no matter how ugly!], but I do like the immersion. hope we get there.
 

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Apr 18, 2011
33,525
1
0
I think a lot of people pirated a bit more freely way back when. And a lot of fans of Bard's Tale are older... so, I could see people buying the forgiveness package.

EDIT - holy crap. 1.9m = equipment visible on characters in inventory. i'm not generally a big fan of 'dressup' games [best armor, no matter how ugly!], but I do like the immersion. hope we get there.

I am not one to underestimate digital piracy.

At the same time, I doubt many actual pirates would do this, as they would see the very notion of a Forgiveness Letter as a "betrayal". Seriously, I've seen some ridiculous posts on FB trying to either say Brian Fargo is pro-piracy or that InXile has "betrayed gamers".

Plus, now it's an add-on.

They know the score.

It's smart.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
23,454
1
0
Recap update.

Pretty good looking pic of an ogre in the update but cant find any way to actually hotlink the image cause i think they lock them behind KS without rehosting them.
 

RPG_Fanatic

Member
Aug 24, 2009
3,630
0
0
Canada
Finally added Torment: Tides of Numenera as an add-on. Time to back this project. I enjoyed Wasteland 2 (Didn't back), so hpefully this game turns out good as well.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
23,454
1
0
Im so pissed I missed the chance to pledge and get Torment.. that was such a great deal but I found out about it a day too late

You could never pledge and get Torment free...im pretty sure it was only Wasteland 2 or the Witcher games you would get.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
23,454
1
0
Na, it was pledge for Bards Tale if you pledged for Wasteland 2 and get Torment free

No that wasnt how it worked. If you pledged for BT and/or pledged on W2 or Torment, you would get a free bonus, like a torment soundtrack or another thing.

The free games given are: Wasteland 2, or the Witcher 1-2 games if you pledged early. You get Bards Tale 1-3 if you pledged 20 or up. And if you pledged 33$ before June 26th they are giving Underworld games for free.


No Torment for free.