You could go to the Nordics for a free degree in a English speaking masters program and then buzz-off to England for work.
Unless you want to shell out another 50k+.
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Kids of Helicopter Parents Are Sputtering Out (Slate)
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You could go to the Nordics for a free degree in a English speaking masters program and then buzz-off to England for work.
GoldenEye 007
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I don't think anyone is saying guidance is bad. It's critical actually. And a career choice is something I'm not sure a parent can force on their child. I mean they can and maybe the student will be successful, but I'll wager more often than not, they'll fail. If a student isn't motivated to be in computer science or engineering or the related, it makes it even more difficult to be successful in it. And that's assuming the student even truly knows what they want to do in the first place.My parents didn't push me toward a correct career path and let me go to a conservatory to major in music and now I either have to start from zero with no money in my late 20's, kill myself, or live a life of financial failure that will absolutely not be worth it.
I'd rather push kids toward a life worth having and risk them burning out then let them move towards something impractical that guarantees them a lifetime of economic hardship.
The worst part of helicoptering is that the student relies so much on the parent. Once they're off to college, shit can get bad. And they then fail to use available resources on campus for additional guidance and support.
And they then fail to use available resources on campus for additional guidance and support.
I don't think that's a problem solely from helicopter parenting.
The One Who Knocks
Member
Article title suggest they were failing but book is saying they're turning out sheep.
I don't agree. The article's comments that it's resulting in the production of well-trained sheep is implicit in how these children are failing, and is a consequence (among others) of this style of parenting. The children are failing to learn a self of sense and are crippled in their own abilities to problem solve. They lack agency, have stunted personal development, and are plagued with crippling psychological traumas. The children are 'sheep' in that they are quite often academically very talented, but they are unequipped to handle independence by being crushed when faced with a lack of support. They are sheep who must be guided and micro-managed in every step, and lose what makes them 'human' in the process. The reason they are failing is not one that can be (in all cases) deduced on a chart of academic success, but one that only becomes clear when examining their own personal cases, how they cope with independence, and their own beliefs (or lack thereof). Perhaps in the book, rather than the article, these are not link
I remember some of the kids in elementary school were already "done" with our entire math book (like 400 pages...) when the rest of the class was only on page 100. Is this the kind of thing they are talking about?
It could be, but isn't necessarily. Helicopter parenting is a term which can be rather broad in the specifics, and isn't always easily identifiable to an external party. If we take it at its broadest, it would be 'overparenting'; a situation where the parent(s)/guardian(s) removes both physical and mental agency from their child to an extreme and harmful degree. Things which in some cases may be a sign of helicopter parenting may not in others. Some primary areas in which helicopter parenting may be prevalent, or extremely harmful, are in relation to academic success (extremely touched upon in the article), the pursuit of the child's hobbies, and the child's socialisation. These may manifest externally, or may merely be present in the domestic environment, and very important can deviate in how 'extreme' they are (it is worth-noting that they are inherently 'pointed', but just how extreme they may be can vary).
Academically, as you've mentioned in the post and as is significantly cited in the article, is perhaps where it can be most visibly seen, and appears to have some of the most crushing implications towards the child. While no parent wishes their child to do poorly in school, helicopter parents may take an extreme approach to ensuring this. Helicopter parents may instil severe and exaggerated consequences of academic failure in their child; they might severely berate, criticise, or punish the child for what they deem to be failure (this could be anything below a C, or anything that prevents the child from being the top of the class), and might use hyperbole to scare the child into performing better ("If you don't get an A, your life is over, you'll never get a job and will be homeless for life"; this might also be done more subtly). On the other side of the scale, they may push the child into exemplary academic performance. They may force the child to participate in numerous study groups, they may examine the child's homework and force it to be redone if it doesn't meet their standards, they may force the child to read ahead and do external reading and question them on it, they might provide multiple additional exercises, or they might (in very extreme cases) begin doing work for the child and submitting it as the child's (this appears to be significantly prominent in college application letters from what I've read). While all of this may seem reasonable in small doses, and can be argued as being the best for the child, it all neglects one thing, the child themself. This style of parenting completely overlooks the child's own position, feelings, and sense of self. By the parents rejecting any form of failure, or forcing the child to exceed expectations, the child is not performing academically because they value the pursuit of knowledge or enjoy what they are doing, they are doing it simply because they are being forced, and fear the reaction of the parents should they fail to do so. They don't wish to succeed because it would give them a sense of accomplishment or pride, nor do they wish to study because of the valuable knowledge it provides, it simply revolves ('helicopter') around the parents, and focuses solely upon what they gain. As an individual goes to college, this may be particularly troublesome. Most parents may suggest courses, or provide some feedback on courses that their child may be considering, but ultimately the child generally weighs the decision themself and is merely advised by others. For those victim to helicopter parents, the child, while may 'pick courses', these 'personal choices' don't boil down to their own personal views on the courses or their own consideration of the consequences of choosing it (they may have thoughts on it, but they might not choose it for themselves), but their parents' views. This may be done by blatant means ("you're picking this course and being an engineer"), more subtle means ("you can't choose that course because we cannot financially support it ourselves" and ignoring that the child can still choose it if they can help support it and provide assistance/advice for doing so if that is what they wish to do), to very subtle means (manipulative tactics, particularly insulting, over-exaggerating consequences of choosing something, and other less direct approaches with the purpose of forcing the child's decision against their own will while simultaneously paying no considerations towards the child's will). Without being able to fail, without the ability to make choices themself (even if they are poor choices), or develop their own understanding of why they are doing what they are doing, the child is crippled in their inability to learn valuable personal lessons and develop as a fully formed individual, lacking their own personal drive and merely navigating the course that is provided, oft-times with severe emotional consequences (particularly if destructive tactics are employed, particularly in relation to emotional manipulation or verbal abuse). As soon as the child exceeds the grasp or cushions that are provided by the parents, the damaged child can be in a very problematic space indeed.
The impact of academic 'helicopter parenting' though can be severely heightened by applying it to social situations, a brand that is much more difficult to capture. The most notable and perhaps simply demonstrable manner in which this comes to fruition is in forcing a hobby(or hobbies) upon a child. While encouraging the child to try new things, and giving them a bit of a push is certainly healthy, it turns toxic when it pays no heed to the child's own feelings towards the hobby; if a child continuously expresses a genuine dislike of a hobby, parents will typically recline and withdraw the child, enquiring about other topics that they may be interested in and pursuing those instead, but helicopter parents may not do this, and force the child to continue pursuing it. This may be furthered by forcing numerous hobbies upon the child, even if they do not enjoy doing so much, don't enjoy hobbies, or they interfere with other activities the child enjoys. This may also not be strictly related to taking on hobbies, however. If the parents are extremely overbearing academically or in hobbies the child enjoys, the child may themselves refuse to participate or withdraw because of their parents' continuous interference. When the same standards of success and failure are applied to hobbies and activities, with many of the same methods employed to enforce these (both direct intervention and more subtle manipulation), it becomes a cruelty and carries many of the same consequences by removing agency from the child, minimising the importance of their own emotions and beliefs, preventing them from developing themself, and forcing a reliance upon their parent(s)/guardian(s) to make decisions for them. Hobbies is one thing, yet it can arise in much more subtle and less externally visible ways too. Social interaction with peers and simplistic tasks can be 'helicoptered'. By enforcing abnormally strict rules upon socialising ('not with these people', 'only between these times', 'only in this area', 'this person WILL be your friend', 'you WILL invite this person over', 'you have to go to their house', 'I'm going to follow up with them/their parents to ensure you did what you said', 'you will tell me exactly what you did after' etc.) and preventing the child's own social development, they may become crippled and isolate themself (not wanting to 'deal' with the restrictions or consequences of interacting with others) or be unable to explore. When warnings become strictly enforced rules, and there are more rules than can be found in a transcript of every holy text which has ever been written, the child never develops an understanding of 'why' these are rules, or considers the impact due to how unreasonable they may be (this is a case-by-case basis obviously), and it can be dangerous once independence is gained. Even helicopter parenting in much more simple tasks can be a dangerous issue. When something as simple as interacting with shopkeepers, spending the child's own money, or travelling on their own (I don't mean, say, fly to a foreign country and then inter-railing followed by a cruise around the world, obviously) is never something allowed by the child, or they are never allowed to perform household tasks (either by being forbidden to do so, the parents always insisting on the parents performing the task, or manipulative tactics such as verbal abuse following the completion of a task and the parent themself doing the task after the child attempted). Being repeatedly patronising, condescending, and/or insincerely complimenting the child, too, can be an issue. By limiting the child's growth in social situations, or forcing them (in excess) upon the child without any consideration of the child's own feelings or beliefs, again, the child never gets to plant the seeds of their social and emotional development, they're sowed for them and then chucked upon hard and infertile ground as soon as independence is gained. The child perseveres while they are forced to persevere, and can then react extremely unpredictability depending upon the child's own ability to rebound from what has been inflicted upon them.
Something that needs to be once again emphasised is that what separates this from 'normal' parenting is the extreme and callous disregard it has for the child. While these are often rationalised as being 'for the child' and may result in the child looking very impressive on paper, it can be absolutely devastating and highly destructive (both internally, as it results in emotional damage, and externally, as it neuters independent thinking and fosters a reliance upon the guiding of others). It's hard to 'put on paper' hard outlines as to what solidly classify as helicopter parenting, but it is important to consider when traits are pronounced, far beyond what could reasonably considered normal, and when parents are the sole driving force behind actions. I hope that may help to provide a greater degree of clarification as to some general 'extreme' behaviour that the article may be referring to, but as you may have noticed, there are a lot of "may"s and "might"s in the post, and it really should be taken to highlight that it is very much something that must be taken at an individual level.
The children you refer to may be forced by the parents, and their parents may be looming over them knitting the path before them and pulling the strings, but it could also be a situation where the children are enthusiastic towards the subject/s and wishes to pursue it/them of their own volition; you really would just need to ask the children and parents.
EDIT:
Slate's teaser line is deceptive, the studies aren't about helicopter parents. The statistics are a general mental health survey, not one that was tied specifically to helicopter parents. The excerpt implies a bit that all parents push their kids too hard these days, but it's not based on recent studies. While I agree with the overall conclusions in that article, the conclusions are based on anecdotes and some professor's opinion piece. That article is an excerpt from a book about how helicopter parenting is bad, so perhaps there is more data in the book, but the excerpt is just stories about some really terrible parents.
I don't think pushing your kids academically and trying to control your kids is anything new. It happened to me when I was a kid, and it sucked. It did more harm than good for me, but I worked things out eventually. But back in the day I called my parents every couple of weeks to say hello and give them updates. But these days with the internet, email and smartphones, it's a lot easier to expect constant updates daily. It's easier for parents to invade their kids lives now.
The bolded is itself stated in the article. The reflection on the 2013 study is that there is a growing mental health crisis which extends across every social and economic level, and stems from a facet of modern American childhood. It suggests that 'helicopter parenting' has a responsibility in this, and then touches upon some (recent: 2010 to 2014) studies which demonstrate a correlation (and it notes explicitly that this doesn't mean causation) between helicopter parenting and mental health and problem solving abilities. While I'm in agreement that it fails to cover a broad range of studies, doesn't lay down specific guidelines as to what classifies as 'helicopter parenting' and doesn't really analyse the data with conclusions that generally stem from a personal belief (although like you I feel that it seems like a valid conclusion in the article; that helicopter parenting is damaging), I don't agree that the studies mentioned are not recent or that the article is primarily anecdotes. It definitely is, as you state, very much an opinion piece however.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
It's like fat shaming. Doesn't actually help positively.I really have to wonder where those parents are coming from...
How can they think telling their kid they won't amount to anything will have any kind of positive effect/result.
ThankYouDaletech
Banned
It's like fat shaming. Doesn't actually help positively.
Have to do something to temper their expectations for themselves. Teachers can't do it because they're afraid of parents and the administration so they're constantly blowing smoke up kids asses about how intelligent and capable they are.
GoldenEye 007
Member
That's true. But I bet there is a higher rate of kids that were smothered not using resources or properly adapting to their new environment than students who weren't.I don't think that's a problem solely from helicopter parenting.
I know students may not use resources because they either think they can handle something themselves or they didn't pay attention enough during orientation.
This article is about me. My mom was incredibly overbearing when I was in high school, always hovering over my shoulder, making sure I practice piano and violin (often with me), helping me with homework and studying, correcting me on and helping me write papers, and basically left all the decision making about my life to herself. I wasn't really encouraged to make my own decisions without at the very least my mom's input and meddling, wasn't allowed to make or even experience big mistakes, and wasn't given any space to do my own thing and develop a life away from her.
My father would often tell her she was being nutty and that should should leave me to myself more, but my mom didn't give a shit and my dad was too much of a pussy to put his foot down. He even admitted often later on that he should have done more when I was living at home.
So, got excepted to a number if universities, went to UW Madison, and my overall GPA was around a point and a half lower than it was in high school. I had severe attention and focusing problems, had no drive or sense of purpose there at all, had terrible studying skills, had deeply severe self-confidence and self-esteem and social skill problems, had zero social life, and developed pretty bad depression quickly. My college experience will probably remain the most regret-filled years of my life, and I've always looked back on my high school years, even before I put the pieces together as to the reasons, and the beginning of when my development as a person went off the rails. It really fucked me up.
My father would often tell her she was being nutty and that should should leave me to myself more, but my mom didn't give a shit and my dad was too much of a pussy to put his foot down. He even admitted often later on that he should have done more when I was living at home.
So, got excepted to a number if universities, went to UW Madison, and my overall GPA was around a point and a half lower than it was in high school. I had severe attention and focusing problems, had no drive or sense of purpose there at all, had terrible studying skills, had deeply severe self-confidence and self-esteem and social skill problems, had zero social life, and developed pretty bad depression quickly. My college experience will probably remain the most regret-filled years of my life, and I've always looked back on my high school years, even before I put the pieces together as to the reasons, and the beginning of when my development as a person went off the rails. It really fucked me up.
cooljeanius
Member
You know, my parents TRIED not to helicopter too much, but... I feel like they kinda ended up doing so anyways... It must be a hard instinct to overcome.
My dad wanted to push me. My mom wanted to keep all pressure from me. From my two parents I got two completely signals as to what to do.
Well, even when my dad got mentally abusive, I somehow looked up to him because he was so much more skilled at everything than me. But at the same time, I could not stand how he treated people he deemed below himself.
Oh, and casually broke my will when I was 8.
Then complain I have zero initiative. Took every important decision from me with the words, "Isnt this the smarter thing to do? The more proper thing?"
Nowadays laughs and smiles about those darn funny things kids say. When I was a kid, he did not find anything funny about that.
Had some very mixed therapeutic experiences later. Until I started group therapy 2 years ago, aged 36, I didn't even know that my will had been broken.
And all he ever wanted was that I get a masters, a good job, a lovely wife and children. Then "his work would be done".
Thanks dad.
Well, even when my dad got mentally abusive, I somehow looked up to him because he was so much more skilled at everything than me. But at the same time, I could not stand how he treated people he deemed below himself.
Oh, and casually broke my will when I was 8.
Then complain I have zero initiative. Took every important decision from me with the words, "Isnt this the smarter thing to do? The more proper thing?"
Nowadays laughs and smiles about those darn funny things kids say. When I was a kid, he did not find anything funny about that.
Had some very mixed therapeutic experiences later. Until I started group therapy 2 years ago, aged 36, I didn't even know that my will had been broken.
And all he ever wanted was that I get a masters, a good job, a lovely wife and children. Then "his work would be done".
Thanks dad.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
It's positive in reinforcing that the kid needs their parents to reach anywhere in life. Convincing the son or daughter that if they leave their parents behind they'll be nothing and achieve nothing so they become afraid of living on their own.
Parents are fucked up man.
In an age of competent educators, where crime rates in middle/upper class neighborhoods are low and kids are safer than ever before, the parents at the head of any traditional white heterosexual family is beginning to lose their place in their children's lives. They don't feel important anymore.
The fact is that, for the first time in history, their kids could probably get along fine without them thanks to the virtues of government aid and the helpfulness of strangers.
Completely farcical concepts like "Stranger Danger" exist to create bogeymen that necessitate the presence of constant parental supervisors, when in reality about 60% of murdered children die at the hands of their parents (only 3% are killed by strangers).
Grades-based pissing contests between families exist in a desperate attempt to add some sort of tangible value to an 18-22 year educational endeavor that only roughly translates to better salaries, breeding a generation of socially-inept robots whose potential for affluence falls apart in the face of rising income inequality.
Helicopter parenting is the result of people blatantly ignoring the mountains of evidence that they can't save their kids from bad luck or poor decisions, and that many of their efforts do more harm than good.
My mother was some weird combo of this, and just not being around at all due to being drunk most of the time. Both her and my dad were big on the "You can do anything you set your mind to" spiel too, but I recognize that even if it was just encouragement, it might have screwed with the way I think. I can't stand failing anything.
This was me for the first half of my education. I remember we had to write a book report in like 6th grade and I chose a pretty beginner book I had already read and ok'd it with the teacher (because fuck book reports). Wrote the report, got an A. Fast forward, parents went to parent teacher day. Teacher shows them the book report, they flip that I'm underachieving, get me placed in advanced book reading secondary whatever extra class and make me read a novel every 3 weeks and write an extensive report. At that point I said screw it and didn't do it. Class didn't actually count for a grade so they couldn't really do anything. They backed off after that. Irony was I was still two grades ahead in math, and in advanced everything else. Like buzz off I'm underachieving.
I expect your experience may have been worse.
Did your parents act the same way towards your sibling(s)?
My sister had it a lot easier, and she wasn't as good of a student. But she also didn't try rebeling as much as I did.
Sorry I edited my post; I AM the only child.
My lineage is south asian and if you're remotely familiar with the culture then you realize the emphasis that is put on education and social standing etc.
I finally left the "nest" at the age of 26 and it was the biggest shock I had received. I did not know how to deal with a lot of sociological scenarios and rejections. 2014 was perhaps the toughest time of my life and I fell into depression and contemplated suicide on multiple occasion.
I am 28 now and perceive myself as lacking confidence to ask women out or to hold a conversation with one befitting my age.
Worst of all, people have told me (guys) that I am good looking and the lack of confidence is what's holding me back (given I am at least 8 years behind the curve but learning at a compounded rate); I just wish I was far uglier so that others wouldn't think me a waste of potential.
Sometimes I wonder, are we really bound that much by our upbringing?My mother was some weird combo of this, and just not being around at all due to being drunk most of the time. Both her and my dad were big on the "You can do anything you set your mind to" spiel too, but I recognize that even if it was just encouragement, it might have screwed with the way I think. I can't stand failing anything.
I somehow still need someone to tell me what to do. As in, I am still insecure when trying my own choices and I am nearing 40.
I am so fuckin dependant on outside praise. So I like speaker building because it makes people go whoa and the stuff I can build sounds amazing. Which makes people go doubly whoa.
If I don't get a whoa at some point with what I am doing, it... dies. I can't seem to enjoy things for what they are. I like chorus singing and working hard because of the applause after an performance.
Praise me :-(
My sister is the same, if her writing and reading stuff did not draw an audience, she could not bear it. Was relieved as fuck when she got her master with honours because she told me, "the next week I would have thought, where did I go wrong? Where could I have worked harder?" She could not simply have enjoyed earning her masters degree.
Another thing, Helicopter Parents are children of the Baby Boomers. Baby Boomers were notorious absentee parents, at least emotionally speaking, and also the first wave of widespread divorce.
Seems their kids are overcompensating.
This sounds about right.
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