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[BigTnaples]

I'm sure it's more sophisticated but it looks no better than the hacked in reflections in DX:HR to me. Where's that toilet screen?

The difference is when you are interacting. Faking it works in screens but when you are playing the game and look at them your immersion pops like a balloon.

 

[SniperHunter]

I'm sure it's more sophisticated but it looks no better than the hacked in reflections in DX:HR to me. Where's that toilet screen?

the reflections in Killzone are real time, you can see it when he tosses the nade down the stairs and in the Jimmy falcon demo when the enemy tries to attack him by the stairs

 

[onQ123]

Why would people listen to You when You dont have a clue what You are talking about?

Really? because the thread I made was about hybrid Ray-Tracing & that's what's happening in KZ it's a Hybrid

Because you don't know what you're talking about approximately 100% of the time

How was I wrong?

 

[dragonelite]

I don't think I'm following. Isn't ray marching when diffuse/reflection calculated throughout the ray, and not just when the ray contacts an object?

Anyway, the guy mentioned how you can have a "reflection, of a reflection of the sun" and he went even further saying you can have multiple reflections that reflect in a reflection. I suppose they can cast a ray from the reflection to the other reflection, but wouldn't that also half the resolution of THAT reflection? So their "ray tracer" runs in half the resolution, and the second reflection would be HALF of that? Instead if they had a ray that bounced directly to the next reflection, it would be under the same ray tracing pass? Or am I just being stupid?

Lots of question marks here from me lol.

Yeah because they blend the environment cube maps first then raytrace the rest of the reflection.

 

[USIGSJ]

Can you possibly upload to imgur? Abload is blocked at my work.

Here

 

[GraveRobberX]

Can you imagine how crazy all these techniques will get more refined and used between Sony 1st party devs in the coming years... Jesus!

Give me Uncharted back in the Water searching for Atlantis or some shit with all these new next-gen tricks

 

[Triple U]

Nice, but what's the point if nobody noticed if when the game was unveiled? Most people weren't blown away by the KZ4 demo.

Plenty of people noticed Killzones graphics, the large group of people going out of there way to call it Killzone 3.5 don't change that.

 

[Setsuna]

this really isn't true IMO. When you have a good marriage of tech and art, the game will continue to impress for years to come. Look at Halo on Xbox or PGR3 on Xbox 360....

heavenly sword god of war 3
uncharted uncharted 2
infamous infamous 2
gran turismo HD gran turismo 5
killzone 2 kill zone 3
resistance to resistance 3

 

[ElFly]

Hope this inspires them to give a full body to your character, so you can see your feet when looking down, and you can see your (probably blocky) reflection on mirrors.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Quick slide from the video that was taken off.

 

[SniperHunter]

heavenly sword god of war 3
uncharted uncharted 2
infamous infamous 2
gran turismo HD gran turismo 5
killzone 2 kill zone 3
resistance to resistance 3

Obviously certain devs learn with experience, but Halo was made by a developer with PC experience, the PGR developer was also at the forefront of technology since they were making Xbox games. It's the console exclusive developers who take a lot of time to exploit the hardware....

 

[USIGSJ]

The difference is when you are interacting. Faking it works in screens but when you are playing the game and look at them your immersion pops like a balloon.

the reflections in Killzone are real time, you can see it when he tosses the nade down the stairs and in the Jimmy falcon demo when the enemy tries to attack him by the stairs

You've had real time reflections using stencil reflections for quite some time now, problem is really that they're bound to planar reflection to look correct and are much more costly because you need to re-render the scene. One advantage though is that they're not bound to screen space so you can have stuff like mirrors.

 

[phosphor112]

Yeah because they blend the environment cube maps first then raytrace the rest of the reflection.

Ah ok, I understand now.

Here

Gentleman and a scholar.

EDIT: So this was from GG for KZ? Or is this someone else' presentation?

 

[xJavonta]

How was I wrong?

I never said you were, but you posted shit that wasn't news as news.

Now enough thread derailing, back on topic.

 

[USIGSJ]

Gentleman and a scholar.

EDIT: So this was from GG for KZ? Or is this someone else' presentation?

That's from Cryteks presentation on Crysis 2 when they first introduced the technique.

 

[MarkV]

Hope this inspires them to give a full body to your character, so you can see your feet when looking down, and you can see your (probably blocky) reflection on mirrors.

You can't reflect yourself on mirror with this kind of reflection. It only works in screen space, so it reflect only what the camera see.

 

[phosphor112]

That's from Cryteks presentation on Crysis 2 when they first introduced the technique.

Ah ok.

You can't reflect yourself on mirror with this kind of reflection. It only works in screen space, so it reflect only what the camera see.

That would be problematic, as there are many objects that would need being reflected that aren't on the screen. One can look down at a more direct angle into the reflection but an object near the point of reflection wouldn't be shown until you start to look back up again.

 

[dragonelite]

You can't reflect yourself on mirror with this kind of reflection. It only works in screen space, so it reflect only what the camera see.

This.

 

[onQ123]

I never said you were,

"Because you don't know what you're talking about approximately 100% of the time"

but you posted shit that wasn't news as news.

???????

 

[Portugeezer]

this really isn't true IMO. When you have a good marriage of tech and art, the game will continue to impress for years to come. Look at Halo on Xbox or PGR3 on Xbox 360....

Halo got shat on by Halo 2 graphics as well as others, and PGR3's 30fps sub-HD not even in the same league as the later Forza games.

They look nice, but not as good as later games.

 

[whitehawk]

Obviously certain devs learn with experience, but Halo was made by a developer with PC experience, the PGR developer was also at the forefront of technology since they were making Xbox games. It's the console exclusive developers who take a lot of time to exploit the hardware....

PGR4 looks better than PGR3.

 

[danwarb]

Halo got shat on by Halo 2 graphics as well as others, and PGR3's 30fps sub-HD not even in the same league as the later Forza games.

They look nice, but not as good as later games.

Halo's clean lines and detail textures hold up much better than Halo 2 I'd say.

PGR3 had nice enough HDR lighting.

 

[LittleJohnny]

Its a subtle effect. I noticed it when they where showing the demo, but I am not going to make a thread about such a small feature.

when used correctly it really adds to the scene, it helps to ground everything in place.

Exactly, things like this are not supposed to stand out, it's supposed to blend in naturally like the real world. You're just wowed by how real everything looks but if something stands out like a sore thumb, it actually ruins things. The plastic'y look of characters at the beginning of this generation and bloom are two stand-outs, way overused at first. SSSS will make skin look amazing next gen as well btw.

 

[onQ123]

Nice, but what's the point if nobody noticed if when the game was unveiled? Most people weren't blown away by the KZ4 demo.

People did notice it but was quickly told that it was baked & nothing special from what I can remember.

 

[KKRT00]

I don't think I'm following. Isn't ray marching when diffuse/reflection calculated throughout the ray, and not just when the ray contacts an object?

From description i've read it means the second one, is calculating when to end ray when it hits the object.
http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~pjia/raymarch/report.pdf [point 3.3 or 1.2]

Anyway, the guy mentioned how you can have a "reflection, of a reflection of the sun" and he went even further saying you can have multiple reflections that reflect in a reflection. I suppose they can cast a ray from the reflection to the other reflection, but wouldn't that also half the resolution of THAT reflection? So their "ray tracer" runs in half the resolution, and the second reflection would be HALF of that? Instead if they had a ray that bounced directly to the next reflection, it would be under the same ray tracing pass? Or am I just being stupid?

Lots of question marks here from me lol.

Guy explanation on video is to vague too to tell. I havent seen anything that suggest that they are doing something unusual in terms of SSR, You can see that they disappear in the same way as in Crysis, You cant see reflection of object behind the camera, You can see that some object can bug reflection in the same way as in Crysis 3 or UE 4 Infiltrator demo [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mw-jGmLFAco#t=1s -- You see choppers bugged reflection even though they shouldnt reflect on the water yet?]

Maybe he was talking about glossy reflections of lights or situation like here when one object/light is giving reflection on different surfaces.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Bigtnaples/07d878f36b34164522c41a134e738bcf_zps961820b0.jpg

Hard to tell really from his description. Also those reflections looks quarter res or are just blurred in awful way, because no way its half-res on the screen above.

 

[phosphor112]

From description i've read it means the second one, is calculating when to end ray when it hits the object.
http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~pjia/raymarch/report.pdf [point 3.3 or 1.2]

Guy explanation on video is to vague too to tell. I havent seen anything that suggest that they are doing something unusual in terms of SSR, You can see that they disappear in the same way as in Crysis, You cant see reflection of object behind the camera, You can see that some object can bug reflection in the same way as in Crysis 3 or UE 4 Infiltrator demo [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mw-jGmLFAco#t=1s -- You see choppers bugged reflection even though they shouldnt reflect on the water yet?]

Maybe he was talking about glossy reflections of lights or situation like here when one object/light is giving reflection on different surfaces.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Bigtnaples/07d878f36b34164522c41a134e738bcf_zps961820b0.jpg

Hard to tell really from his description. Also those reflections looks quarter res or are just blurred in awful way, because no way its half-res on the screen above.

I see that glitch you're talking about.

I'd love to see detailed documents on their technique. Anyway. It's very much half resolution + blurring, you can see "smaller" details on the picture of the person in the reflections. If it were quarter resolution, you wouldn't be able to distinguish it.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Crysis 3 already looks better and that came out a few months ago.

So you've played trough the new Killzone game that's not even done/out yet and Crysis 3 looks better?, wish i had a time machine too.

 

[AgentP]

One day people will learn to listen to me instead of attacking when I say things SMH & with that said why haven't my rights to make threads been giving back to me?

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

DX11 Real-Time Raytracing Tech Demo Running on a i7 + Radeon 5870

Hint, just because you see two keywords are the same, doesn't make make two processes the same.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Hope this inspires them to give a full body to your character, so you can see your feet when looking down, and you can see your (probably blocky) reflection on mirrors.

Killzone's had that since the first one.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Cleanest game ever.

 

[Canis lupus]

This makes me excited for what Naughty Dog will/can do lol.

 

[RoboPlato]

Cleanest game ever.

That shot's downsampled from 4k. AA is definitely where the game needs more improvement.

 

[Visualante2]

Guerilla is almost becoming the Square Enix of Europe.

 

[phosphor112]

That shot's downsampled from 4k. AA is definitely where the game needs more improvement.

I hope they use that GOW3 MLAA.

That shit was super clean.

Guerilla is almost becoming the Square Enix of Europe.

Nah, Guerilla still releases games.

 

[RoboPlato]

I hope they use that GOW3 MLAA.

That shit was super clean.

I actually think they are using it right now. MLAA is nice in a lot of situation but it doesn't do well on high contrast edges, which is where this game's AA fails since it has so many. Ascension had the same problem. I hope they wind up with some form of SMAA or something, since that can build off of the Sony MLAA technique while still giving better coverage and having a lower processing cost.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Yeah, Sony have been researching this for years. Particularly Sony Cambridge and Evolution studios. They've really been a driving force of PS4 software development.

 

[Sol..]

I remember when some grad students implemented raytracing in quake 3 and my fragile mind was blown.

 

[Goldrusher]

I hope we'll finally see a Gran Turismo with cars that can reflect their own bodywork.

 

[demolitio]

But people were saying they noticed no big upgrade in visuals in the Killzone 4 reveal. I think the differences were there for people who looked for it. Overall, I was really impressed with the reveal considering it's only going to get better.

GG sure does know how to please the technical people though considering how much they talk about their engines and improvements. Not many developers spend that much time showing off the technical side to the public, especially with an engine that they aren't trying to sell to everyone.

I can't even imagine what the next generation will bring in a few years.

 

[phosphor112]

I actually think they are using it right now. MLAA is nice in a lot of situation but it doesn't do well on high contrast edges, which is where this game's AA fails since it has so many. Ascension had the same problem. I hope they wind up with some form of SMAA or something, since that can build off of the Sony MLAA technique while still giving better coverage and having a lower processing cost.

I'm kinda ignorant on how ROPS work, but I'm guessing ROPS aren't affected by the FLOPS. Can't they just super sample it? They have 32 of those badboys.

 

[KKRT00]

Quick slide from the video that was taken off.

I'm interested in their Area Light implementation. The only example we have on KZ trailer is on that blur holographic thing in the center of explosion scene.
Crytek said its more expensive than Point Light in CE 3.5, but they can do much better stuff with it, like use one Area Light for whole roof in Warehouse [instead of 30-50 lamps] and have proper dynamic shadows from them in cost of one Area Light. They also activated Penumbra shadows on Area Lights, but not on Point Lights in C3.

 

[Ce-Lin]

so more computing intensive stuff, all Kepler cards but GTX Titan (barely) are going to have a fun time with ports of PS4/XB3 titles, that's for sure, don't sell your GTX 580s yet.

 

[Reiko]

Dat 8gb gddr5.

Which is hilarious, since that build wasn't using it.

 

[TheGuardian]

From description i've read it means the second one, is calculating when to end ray when it hits the object.
http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~pjia/raymarch/report.pdf [point 3.3 or 1.2]



Guy explanation on video is to vague too to tell. I havent seen anything that suggest that they are doing something unusual in terms of SSR, You can see that they disappear in the same way as in Crysis, You cant see reflection of object behind the camera, You can see that some object can bug reflection in the same way as in Crysis 3 or UE 4 Infiltrator demo [http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mw-jGmLFAco#t=1s -- You see choppers bugged reflection even though they shouldnt reflect on the water yet?]

Maybe he was talking about glossy reflections of lights or situation like here when one object/light is giving reflection on different surfaces.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Bigtnaples/07d878f36b34164522c41a134e738bcf_zps961820b0.jpg

Hard to tell really from his description. Also those reflections looks quarter res or are just blurred in awful way, because no way its half-res on the screen above.

Most of the blurring is due to the lighting model. The reflections take into account the roughness of the material in question and you get more or less blurry reflections due to that.
Kind of like here:

 

[RoboPlato]

I'm kinda ignorant on how ROPS work, but I'm guessing ROPS aren't affected by the FLOPS. Can't they just super sample it? They have 32 of those badboys.

Super sampling is just rendering in a higher resolution and condensing it to fit a lower one while maintaining the quality. ROPS are more just for MSAA but that has a lot of issues with differed rendering, which GG uses extensively.

 

[phosphor112]

I hope we'll finally see a Gran Turismo with cars that can reflect their own bodywork.

It's interesting that Forza (and NFS Shift i think?) already do that. It's a form of rasterizing I believe. They create a "cubemap" around your car frame by frame (possibly every 2 frames so 30 fps) and map that reflection onto the car.

Super sampling is just rendering in a higher resolution and condensing it to fit a lower one while maintaining the quality. ROPS are more just for MSAA but that has a lot of issues with differed rendering, which GG uses extensively.

Well yeah, but can't they render it at.. lets say.. 1440p or even higher, then downsample it? I mean... ROPS are what give you the final render.

 

[sunnz]

To me KZ SF looked more impressive than C3 and every other games announced so far, the art mixed with the quality made it look stunning.

Yes, I have played C3 at 1080p with everything set to as high as possible with my 670.

 

[phosphor112]

To me KZ SF looked more impressive than C3 and every other games announced so far, the art mixed with the quality made it look stunning.

Yes, I have played C3 at 1080p with everything set to as high as possible with my 670.

Crytek has no concept of "art." Lol. It's a damn shame.

I think Epic has even less of a concept of it though, sadly. That elemental demo looked like massive garbage. Then again, the infiltrator demo looked fantastic.

 

[dragonelite]

I'm kinda ignorant on how ROPS work, but I'm guessing ROPS aren't affected by the FLOPS. Can't they just super sample it? They have 32 of those badboys.

These days ROPS are not that important.
Go calculate the Fillrate = ROPS * frequency.
you will come to the conclusion that the rops count is overkill for 1080p gaming.
And probably something they want to use later on for 4k movies with other gimicks like high framerate and 3D.

 

[Always-honest]

Awesome. Ads immersion imo.