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Kinect now recognizes upper torso while sitting. Lower torso, not so much.

F

FunkyPajamas

Member
Jibber Hack said:
Sorry about that, I saw Segway joke and just thought it was irrelevant to the discussion.

Remember, this is serious business.
Click to expand...
It's ok, you can only understand the jokes in this thread if you're standing up.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Let's say for the sake of argument the issue is completely, utterly false but is damaging Kinect's rep. What would the PR statements look like?

"These rumors are completely false. Kinect works sitting down. It works just like you think it works. You can use it in a chair, you can use it in a couch, you can use it on a boat, you can use it on a goat. There are no issues with recognition when sitting down for anything, whatsoever."

That's what is known as "unequivocal".

"I've used menus sitting down" is nowhere near unequivocal. The truth is probably something less absolute than "it doesn't work sitting down" but the mealy-mouthed PR statements heavily suggest there is at least a kernel of truth to the issue, and probably more.
 
J

Jtrizzy

Member
m0dus said:
You might be jumping to conclusions at this point.
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Probably. Not trying to derail, but something similar to what SOCOM 4 is doing...or just a demo would probably get me back on the train.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
how is someone in a wheelchair or with no legs supposed to play this? Im telling you right now the disabled community will not stand for this.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
flyinpiranha said:
For the most part I'd agree with you ... but so many game companies are so close lipped about anybody saying anything about their product months before released. IGN also said those same developers said you could use the menus while sitting. They've said both. But the negative spin is more fun to attach to.

I don't think it's logical to just think IGN is right. I still don't even know what menus they are even talking about, do you? Is the Netflix/Zune stuff on the show floor?

I agree it's cryptic bullshit but after following huge releases for years it's just par for the course.

I imagine that 'no sitting for menus' is most likely during these demo'd games that require you standing up anyway. But I'm also just guessing, just like the IGN guy.
Click to expand...


Again, IGN can only report what they've been told. The onus should then be put on MS to say "Not true, Kinect can recognize both gestures and voice commands while sitting" or somesuch. Quick, simple, strikes down IGN's claims, kills the story dead. As far as i've seen, this has een commented on twice since, yet no definite answer. Leave people to draw their own conclusions and they'll pop up negative, every time.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
IGN said:
According to Microsoft, you can play some Kinect games sitting down. It "varies" by experience. However, several developers giving us demos have said the exact opposite. Sometimes the contradiction comes from the same person--one day telling us you have to be standing and then the next saying everything can be done while sitting.

Which is true? We don't know for certain, as we have not had the opportunity to play anything seated. Suffice to say, if you have to stand for every game (or for menu navigation), that's a big problem. This remains a concern until we ourselves can test out Kinect from our rear.
Click to expand...

How is this - honestly - even possible? How can there be so many conflicting reports? It comes out in November and we don't even know something as basic as whether or not it can be used sitting down?
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
Trent Strong said:
I'll never understand why people would want to navigate their dashboards or control their movies with hand gestures. Using a controller is so much easier and less labor intensive.
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Yuuuup.

I'd love to see Kinect do well, but I don't think the tech is at the point where its actually enough of an improvement to really offer something that is both novel and useful enough to be a major success.
 
F

FunkyPajamas

Member
Joe Shlabotnik said:
Let's say for the sake of argument the issue is completely, utterly false but is damaging Kinect's rep. What would the PR statements look like?

"These rumors are completely false. Kinect works sitting down. It works just like you think it works. You can use it in a chair, you can use it in a couch, you can use it on a boat, you can use it on a goat. There are no issues with recognition when sitting down for anything, whatsoever."

That's what is known as "unequivocal".

"I've used menus sitting down" is nowhere near unequivocal. The truth is probably somewhere less than the absolute "it doesn't work sitting down" but the mealy-mouthed PR statements heavily suggest there is at least a kernel of truth to the issue, and probably more.
Click to expand...
Yeah, what you're saying makes sense (and has been said before). They should come out and say it, unequivocally. Does anybody remember what their answer to the "natal can't see back people" rumor was?
Ninja Scooter said:
how is someone in a wheelchair or with no legs supposed to play this? Im telling you right now the disabled community will not stand for this.
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Oh, I see what you did there, heh.
Zeliard said:
How is this - honestly - even possible? How can there be so many conflicting reports? It comes out in November and we don't even know something as basic as whether or not it can be used sitting down?
Click to expand...
Think about it this way: it comes out in november and -if the rumors are true- it would appear the gaming world has not seen one public live demo.
 
Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
Flyguy said:
It's reassuring that they're still working on it. Sure they've been working on it for a couple years now, but I'm confident they'll have an 11th hour breakthrough prior to launch that will enable the ability to sit whilst gaming.
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Seriously, this is a big joke. Devs are NOT working with final specs???
"It's still in development" is NOT a good spin, it just shows what a trainwreck the tech is.
 
C

Chrange

Banned
They better do another presentation, this time a black guy in dark clothes sitting down...so the sky can stop falling.

Otherwise, of course, it's financial suicide.
 
O

OldJadedGamer

Banned
schennmu said:
Seriously, this is a big joke. Devs are NOT working with final specs???
"It's still in development" is NOT a good spin, it just shows what a trainwreck the tech is.
Click to expand...

All tech comes down to the last minute. Remember E3 2006 where Sony made a big deal that final dev kits for the system were shipping to developers as of the show?
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
FunkyPajamas said:
Think about it this way: it comes out in november and -if the rumors are true- it would appear the gaming world has not seen one public live demo.
Click to expand...
Wait, what? Aren't there any Kinect kiosks out on the showfloor of Microsoft's booth for people to try?
 
S

Speevy

Banned
They better do another presentation, this time a black guy in dark clothes sitting down...so the sky can stop falling.
Click to expand...

It's Kinethnic cleansing. Green-eyed people can't play. No red-heads either.
 
M

Mooreberg

Member
I'm pretty sure the 360 itself was fairly last minute in terms of getting final dev kits to companies. The problem here is despite comments on Twitter from developers like Criterion, I'm not seeing a lot of product that isn't some kind of rip off.

Bungie going multiplatform probably means no motion controls on either system (no demand for it in that genre, and a needless bottleneck to making cross platform games). Don't see Epic doing much with it. Lionhead will probably do something.

As far as going after the Wii audience, both MS and Sony are basically insane if they think $399 hardware bundles are going to work in that regard. Even if this think works exactly as advertise (which is somewhat dubious at this point) I'm not seeing the selling point. Worst case scenario for Move is that it only works better in the expect games (Golf, rail shooters, etc) and people just keep using a regular controller with most of the games they play on PS3.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Imperial Hot said:
What if you are confined to a wheelchair?

Kinect hates black people and cripples confirmed?
Click to expand...


Microsoft will offer a solution for those people before everything is final.
 
R

Rhindle

Member
Well, as of right now, all the games being demoed require that you be standing BY DESIGN.

Almost all games require leg movement - and even where that's not the case, all the demos I tried require a full range of vertical motion for your arms, which you wouldn't be able to get sitting down (unless maybe you're balanced on the edge of your seat).

So by definition, for everything out there today you need to be standing up. Does that mean that the system is incapable of detecting arm movements while seated? I guess we don't know - but I can see how that might create more room for error. We do know that Kinect can track your facial position when seated - that was demoed in the video chat session in the press conference.
 
S

sangreal

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Again, IGN can only report what they've been told. The onus should then be put on MS to say "Not true, Kinect can recognize both gestures and voice commands while sitting" or somesuch. Quick, simple, strikes down IGN's claims, kills the story dead. As far as i've seen, this has een commented on twice since, yet no definite answer. Leave people to draw their own conclusions and they'll pop up negative, every time.
Click to expand...

Except Microsoft did say that to IGN, which is mentioned in the article (and really, IGN should have asked them before writing the article). So now the article has nameless developers flip-flopping on whether it works while sitting and nameless Microsoft reps telling them it works fine while sitting. They are equally incredible yet everyone wants to believe the worst.
 
I

Imperial Hot

Banned
Speevy said:
Microsoft will offer a solution for those people before everything is final.
Click to expand...
From what these developers are saying, the Kinect is technologically incapable of mapping the skeletal system of someone sitting.

This is quite the oversight if they can't work this out. I just don't understand how anybody from Microsoft could have asked in some sort of meeting at any time in the development process that, "Hey, what if you sit down?"

To be honest, I pretty partial towards Microsoft but I feel like Kinect has been a huge misstep.
 
F

flyinpiranha

Member
schennmu said:
Seriously, this is a big joke. Devs are NOT working with final specs???
"It's still in development" is NOT a good spin, it just shows what a trainwreck the tech is.
Click to expand...

Development on the software hate-train, on the software.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Imperial Hot said:
From what these developers are saying, the Kinect is technologically incapable of mapping the skeletal system of someone sitting.

This is quite the oversight if they can't work this out. I just don't understand how anybody from Microsoft could have asked in some sort of meeting at any time in the development process that, "Hey, what if you sit down?"

To be honest, I pretty partial towards Microsoft but I feel like Kinect has been a huge misstep.
Click to expand...


Your well-considered reply (which I agree with) was more serious and tasteful than the post which preceded it.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
sangreal said:
Except Microsoft did say that to IGN, which is mentioned in the article (and really, IGN should have asked them before writing the article). So now the article has nameless developers flip-flopping on whether it works while sitting and nameless Microsoft reps telling them it works fine while sitting. They are equally incredible yet everyone wants to believe the worst.
Click to expand...

WAT
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
and let's not start pretending that when seated, the average gamer isn't exactly a model of superior posture. i've got two working human eyes and i sometimes have trouble rendering seperate entities from the the bulbous, splayed out, nacho sprinkled mass of human-couch chimera that gamers can tend to resemble after an evening's bro'ing.
 
L

linsivvi

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
how is someone in a wheelchair or with no legs supposed to play this? Im telling you right now the disabled community will not stand for this.
Click to expand...

Paul Pierce approves of your post.
 
B

Bentendo

Member
Wait, what is this about black people? Someone explain, I got here late and don't feel like reading through the other posts.
 
L

luxarific

Nork unification denier
Zophar said:
I don't remember the details but some time back at a Natal demonstration it didn't recognize that there was a black guy trying to operate it.

edit: turns out it was n'gai
http://www.gamezine.co.uk/news/form...-natal-struggles-see-darker-skin-$1302668.htm
Click to expand...

This is FUD - it wasn't Natal - it was HP cams that had this problem. I don't think there's ever been a demo where Natal hasn't successfully recognized people with darker skin - it works on infrared tech, people. Everyone's basically the same color in infrared.

EDIT: I stand corrected! :lol
EDITED EDIT: Does anyone have access to that entire paper? 17 is a pretty small sample size and I'm interested in reading more about how they set up their test protocol.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
Speevy said:
Microsoft will offer a solution for those people before everything is final.
Click to expand...
thSMILEY-icwatudidthar.gif
 
A

Adent

Can't manage for sh!t
Speevy said:
Here's another question.

What software did they demo that would actually lend itself to sit-down play? I mean, assuming it does "work" sitting down, which games should work sitting down?

That will make a big difference to me.
Click to expand...


This is especially important for us the hard core gamers. The application I would like to see is head tracking and leaning. Being able to lean to see around a corner and to move your head to see around you a little more would add to the experience.
 
X

xelios

Universal Access can be found under System Preferences
So a few people are actually acting like this is acceptable? Fanboy much?

I don't know about you but I don't watch movies standing up, and while we're at it show me a race car driver who drives standing up.

Waiting...


Hopefully they can fix this.
 
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