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Kirby: Planet Robobot |OT| A Transformative Mechstravaganza

El Odio

Banned
Do you know what's not okay?
post-defeat instakill attacks at the end of a 5 phase boss fight that you can only fight at the end of a boss rush. Also apparently archer doesn't block it but since I'm not cheap, I wouldn't know
I think we've all fallen victim to that attackhere, it's like a rite of passage.

Also, Hal struck gold when they
made the Marx fight. Every Kirby end boss has channeled him ever since.
I noticed this as soon as the heart stopped teleporting around and unleashed those blades. It's only a matter of time before either him or Zero show up again I feel.

Oh, one other point for the Deep Lore(tm) aspect.
Does the text on the pause screen change to "all traces of Haltmann have been deleted" after you hear him scream during the fight with the heart?
If so, dark.
IIRC you hear Halt man scream everytime you destroy one of the boss's barriers. If anything it's implying that your the one killing him since the flavor text changes between phases if I'm remembering it right.
 

Niraj

I shot people I like more for less.
I think we've all fallen victim to that attackhere, it's like a rite of passage.

I didn't, but that's probably because I could only take one hit anyway at that point and figured it wasn't worth the risk :p
 

MrBadger

Member
I noticed this as soon as the heart stopped teleporting around and unleashed those blades. It's only a matter of time before either him or Zero show up again I feel.

What's interesting, and kind of obscure, is (these aren't Robobot spoilers but people might take them as implications, and they might be seen as Mass Attack spoilers so I'll tag)
Marx and Dark Matter both already returned as bosses in sub games in Kirby Mass Attack. That game went nuts with the obscure cameos, even had some stuff from the anime

KMA_Dark_Matter1.png

latest

hqdefault.jpg

Since it's just a thing to bring back a random Kirby boss to serve as a bonus post-game boss, I want their next throwback to be 0 or 02. It's actually been a while since Kirby's faced off against a giant eyeball. I kinda don't care if we see Marx again since every final boss since has had a few of his attacks

I didn't, but that's probably because I could only take one hit anyway at that point and figured it wasn't worth the risk :p

I was so relieved after the
fucking 5 phase boss fight with no health breaks
that I didn't even notice it was an attack...also apparently you can use the Amiibos to make it way easier?
 

Berordn

Member
I can get being disoriented from being away from the series for so long, but the SNES controls are not the standard for Kirby and they haven't been for nearly two decades. It's silly to try to claim they are.

I'm not claiming they are, just that they were once and that I still find it more comfortable.

I'm also stating that it's strange that they moved away from what is the platformer standard layout without leaving it as an option, even when they have an identical control scheme and a remake of a game that used it.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Finally started the game and it's very charming. 3 levels in. I lucked out and got a dual Kirby Mass Attack sticker and I love it.

You made the thread two weeks ago but never played the game?! Shame on you <(>.<)>

I was so relieved after the
fucking 5 phase boss fight with no health breaks
that I didn't even notice it was an attack...also apparently you can use the Amiibos to make it way easier?

Amiibos can heal you and apparently
If you have full health the last attack doesn't kill you. Not sure if this is true, though.
 

Niraj

I shot people I like more for less.
What's interesting, and kind of obscure, is (these aren't Robobot spoilers but people might take them as implications, and they might be seen as Mass Attack spoilers so I'll tag)
Marx and Dark Matter both already returned as bosses in sub games in Kirby Mass Attack. That game went nuts with the obscure cameos, even had some stuff from the anime

Since it's just a thing to bring back a random Kirby boss to serve as a bonus post-game boss, I want their next throwback to be 0 or 02. It's actually been a while since Kirby's faced off against a giant eyeball. I kinda don't care if we see Marx again since every final boss since has had a few of his attacks


I was so relieved after the
fucking 5 phase boss fight with no health breaks
that I didn't even notice it was an attack...also apparently you can use the Amiibos to make it way easier?

I wasn't super into Mass Attack, but those subgames were all awesome.

I just figured whatever it was, I didn't want to get hit by it lol. Not sure about the Amiibo, have no way to use them.
 

Simbabbad

Member
It's been nearly 20 years since Dreamland 3 came out while there have been at least 10 mainline Kirby games across the handhelds and Wii / U with this button set up.

Of the 16 or so main Kirby games that have come out, only three use the "Y / B" or similar positional set ups: Super Star, Dreamland 3, and 64.

I can get being disoriented from being away from the series for so long, but the SNES controls are not the standard for Kirby and they haven't been for nearly two decades. It's silly to try to claim they are.
This. Kirby isn't Mario where you have to hold both buttons.

Anyway, what strikes me currently with this game is how good it looks and sounds. The visuals and music are spectacular. The gameplay is also much more fun than Triple Deluxe, which I didn't like.
 
I've tried going back between TD and PR to figure out what makes Robobot so much more enjoyable to me and I can't quite figure it out. I suppose it just comes across more engaging with better level design, more varied puzzle rooms, less gimmicky "we got a gyro sensor WHEEEE" and the final world isn't a tedious slog of boss and mini boss rematches capped off with an overly loooong stage where you avoid squares popping out of the wall for like 5 minutes.

Oh and of course mech>>>hypernova but that's a given.
 

MrBadger

Member
I've tried going back between TD and PR to figure out what makes Robobot so much more enjoyable to me and I can't quite figure it out. I suppose it just comes across more engaging with better level design, more varied puzzle rooms, less gimmicky "we got a gyro sensor WHEEEE" and the final world isn't a tedious slog of boss and mini boss rematches capped off with an overly loooong stage where you avoid squares popping out of the wall for like 5 minutes.

Oh and of course mech>>>hypernova but that's a given.

I think it's the more lively, involved environments and the more stylised aesthetic. But fun environments is something I think Triple Deluxe did rather well too and I'd say both games are huge steps up from previous traditional Kirbys because of that. I've realised that my only desire to go back to Superstar Ultra was the numerous boss rushes (and Revenge of Meta Knight), but even then the bosses in the two 3DS Kirbies are way more exciting because the levels actually have fun set pieces
 
As someone who arrived to Superstar late (via its ultra remake) I can safely say it didn't meet the very high praise I'd seen heaped upon it for me.
I can absolutely understand that for the time it had a lot going on and it is still a good game that slammed down a lot of traditions for the series (HATS!) but the taster selection of modes just came across to me like a game that never really got going.
The sampler dinner of video games you could say.

But then again I'm odd in that I'm replaying Kirby's adventure (3D Classic) and I still very much enjoy its simplicity and quality for a NES game which almost contradicts my thoughts on Superstar.

Back to Robobot, the environments getting that mechanical twist on familiar tropes as well as greater use of 3D visuals for camera angles (ala Kirby 64) definitely gives it a big leg up over TD visuals which had this strange visual effect going on where the back layer of backgrounds felt oddly flat so with the 3D effect on it was more like playing in a diorama box.
 

maxcriden

Member
I think it's the more lively, involved environments and the more stylised aesthetic. But fun environments is something I think Triple Deluxe did rather well too and I'd say both games are huge steps up from previous traditional Kirbys because of that. I've realised that my only desire to go back to Superstar Ultra was the numerous boss rushes (and Revenge of Meta Knight), but even then the bosses in the two 3DS Kirbies are way more exciting because the levels actually have fun set pieces

I think this trend began with RTDL. Well. With the exception of DL3, I mean, since that's a very different sort of game. I think that one was pretty special too. I'm one of those that thinks Superstar is one of the worst Kirby games and overrated, though.
 

Berordn

Member
I think this trend began with RTDL. Well. With the exception of DL3, I mean, since that's a very different sort of game. I think that one was pretty special too. I'm one of those that thinks Superstar is one of the worst Kirby games and overrated, though.

While I loved RTDL, I'd have to disagree on it having interesting environments. Along with the poor pacing of the back half of the game, the levels themselves don't do anything particularly exciting or unique, and the most interactivity you usually get is from rocks falling from the background to the foreground, and Kirby himself is stuck with a few basic powers until about Area 4. It wasn't until TD that they finally rediscovered that Kirby levels work best at a snappy pace and with a lot of variation. Robobot just emphasizes this by giving you so many ways to change your playstyle from the outset.

I think that's part of why the mech works so well. Unlike the other "super ability" gimmicks which did alter the way you play, they still limit your interaction with the world and trap you in smaller areas built around doing a single mundane thing. In RTDL especially they dumb down your gameplay to single button presses and limit your interaction to doing the same few things every time (break ropes, go bowling), while the armor just blends together with it.

also i'm gonna have to fight you about that superstar comment irl.
 
RTDL had some pretty trippy backgrounds for standard area themes, I dug it.
Granted coming off NSMB Wii anything that took the standard GRASS, DESERT, VOLCANO, TROPICAL, SNOW themes and did something vaguely interesting with them looked great by comparison.

RTDL was the first Kirby game that I felt really prompted you to keep switching up your powers since a lot of the gears you had to collect would involve them, I found that to be the key to its variation and as an aside I really liked the bits post Super ability where you went powerless into the sphere doomer dimensions, great contrasting segments back to back from all powerful screen destroyer to the basic inhale and exhale stuff.
Also had a more notable difficulty curve compared to most Kirby games.
 

Sciz

Member
As someone who arrived to Superstar late (via its ultra remake) I can safely say it didn't meet the very high praise I'd seen heaped upon it for me.
I can absolutely understand that for the time it had a lot going on and it is still a good game that slammed down a lot of traditions for the series (HATS!) but the taster selection of modes just came across to me like a game that never really got going.
The sampler dinner of video games you could say.

KSS's structure fixes one of the big problems with the modern Kirby games, from my perspective. Constantly switching up the objective and fine details of the gameplay keeps things much fresher than the stagnant "clear 5-6 levels and a boss in 6-7 areas and also earn 3-4 macguffins in every single one" structure of RtDL on.

It also has more varied and interesting level design in general, which is not coincidentally why I also still like KA over the last three games.
 
I will admit, the current collectable focus has run its course.
A bit like certain Wario Land titles and even NSMB it's become the case where the levels are mainly interesting provided you focus on nabbing the main set of collectables, otherwise you can just sprint through them like nothing.
Proven quite well by this game's Meta Knightmare Returns mode.

Random thought: The gimmicks behind both Great Cave Offensive and Milky Way Wishes seem like they'd go well together for making a better structured Kirbyvania like Amazing Mirror but with much better design.
 

Narroo

Member
A bit like certain Wario Land titles and even NSMB it's become the case where the levels are mainly interesting provided you focus on nabbing the main set of collectables, otherwise you can just sprint through them like nothing.
Proven quite well by this game's Meta Knightmare Returns mode.

Pretty much. It always irks me when people respond to criticisms of games being too easy and boring with: "Well, you should try to collect all the medals!" Having a couple of medals hidden in a level does not make the game more fun.
 

MrBadger

Member
I will admit, the current collectable focus has run its course.
A bit like certain Wario Land titles and even NSMB it's become the case where the levels are mainly interesting provided you focus on nabbing the main set of collectables, otherwise you can just sprint through them like nothing.
Proven quite well by this game's Meta Knightmare Returns mode.

The absolute worst game for this is Yoshi's New Island. I remember some levels in the final world are over in like seconds unless you're nabbing collectibles. And since getting the collectibles in that game is fairly unrewarding, I was less inclined to bother. Since the game itself wasn't all that fun, I just ended up putting it down instead of going back for stuff.

I don't think it's particularly bad in Planet Robobot because the levels, while not challenging, are still fun, and it is kind of nice to just walk past a puzzle you don't feel like solving, breeze through the world, kill an awesome boss then go back for what you missed later. A great strength that Kirby games have is the amount of stuff there is to unlock and discover. There's plenty to come back to. Except
Star Dream Soul OS.
I'm never going back. Not after last time.

I recently cleared the weird RPG-like sub-game and it's something I'd kind of like to see them do more with. I hope we get DLC or an eshop thing with more enemies to fight.
 
What a damn great experience. It's a shame that I was spoiled about
the Galactic Nova callback
, because that shit would have been mindblowing if I didn't know it in advance.

That final boss sure was something.
While I prefer final bosses that are fought like regular battles like Queen Sectonia, I think this is the best of the super power bosses in the series.

I wonder if Star Dream was created from the remains of the galactic nova that Kirby destroyed in Super Star or if Haltmann found a different one out in space?

Does President Haltmann remind anyone else of Marvin Grossberg from Ace Attorney? Here's a picture of him for comparison.
latest

Haltmann seems like he probably has hemorrhoids
 

Simbabbad

Member
Pretty much. It always irks me when people respond to criticisms of games being too easy and boring with: "Well, you should try to collect all the medals!" Having a couple of medals hidden in a level does not make the game more fun.
When the gameplay is structured around it then yes, obviously it makes the game more fun. Collectibles are a good way to make a game playable both by casual players and gaming veterans, DKCTF and DK Jungle Climber, NSMBW/NSMBU, and obviously Wario Land the Shake Dimension are very simple and short games if you ignore the collectibles, and masterpieces of level design if you don't.

That structure also makes replaying a level painless because you can replay it multiple times without doing the exact same thing in it (and much quicker than you did the first time).

It's actually similar to the scoring system in some games: you can play Devil May Cry games to just get to the end, and you can play Devil May Cry games to get an S rank - both experiences are radically different and the latter is the deep one, gameplay-wise. It's a perfectly valid and successful way to design games, and it's a perfectly valid thing to remark on gaming message boards.

By the way, one of the reasons why I dislike Triple Deluxe is that despite having stuff to collect, it DOESN'T exploit the strength of this structure: it's a very linear and "deliberate" game, with levels that offer the same experience and ways to go through obstacles every time.

The absolute worst game for this is Yoshi's New Island. I remember some levels in the final world are over in like seconds unless you're nabbing collectibles. And since getting the collectibles in that game is fairly unrewarding, I was less inclined to bother.
Yoshi's New Island has structurally nothing to do whatsoever with Wario Land, though, it's absurd to create a big labelled bag and toss both games in, just because both have stuff to collect. YNI is like DKCR, a strictly linear affair with collectible stuff on the way, meaning that if you miss something, you have to again go through the exact same experience. It defeats the whole point of collectibles, structurally, it's bad design.

This can't be compared at all with the exploration/giant puzzle elements of Wario Land games, which are among the finest in the history of level design. Come on. Going through a Wario Land the Shake Dimension level without caring about the collectibles or objectives is extremely short and playable by a baby, whereas going 100% is one of the most thigh, demanding experiences of last generation.
 

MrBadger

Member
Yoshi's New Island has structurally nothing to do whatsoever with Wario Land, though, it's absurd to create a big labelled bag and toss both games in, just because both have stuff to collect. YNI is like DKCR, a strictly linear affair with collectible stuff on the way, meaning that if you miss something, you have to again go through the exact same experience. It defeats the whole point of collectibles, structurally, it's bad design.

This can't be compared at all with the exploration/giant puzzle elements of Wario Land games, which are among the finest in the history of level design. Come on. Going through a Wario Land the Shake Dimension level without caring about the collectibles or objectives is extremely short and playable by a baby, whereas going 100% is one of the most thigh, demanding experiences of last generation.

It sounds like we agree, though. I know others mentioned Wario Land but I wasn't specifically comparing the two. I was comparing it to Kirby, because both games have a similar approach of the game's linear level design leaving collectibles as an option.
 

Simbabbad

Member
@MrBadger: no problem, that part of my post was more expanding my previous thoughts than trying to invalidate your opinion (with which I do agree indeed).

The collectible aspect of games can lead to brilliance, but Kirby games in general don't really handle collectibles very well. I think the worst in that area is probably Kirby 64, which is a game I like because of the hilarious mixing mechanics, but man, the "have this specific power to use is this specific area" mechanic was quite bad, because the level design wasn't accommodating for it at all, it all felt very arbitrary.

Robobot manages the collectibles much better, but it doesn't add that much to the game, especially since the levels aren't much fun to replay if you forgot/missed something.
 

Narroo

Member
When the gameplay is structured around it then yes, obviously it makes the game more fun. Collectibles are a good way to make a game playable both by casual players and gaming veterans, DKCTF and DK Jungle Climber, NSMBW/NSMBU, and obviously Wario Land the Shake Dimension are very simple and short games if you ignore the collectibles, and masterpieces of level design if you don't.

That structure also makes replaying a level painless because you can replay it multiple times without doing the exact same thing in it (and much quicker than you did the first time).

It's actually similar to the scoring system in some games: you can play Devil May Cry games to just get to the end, and you can play Devil May Cry games to get an S rank - both experiences are radically different and the latter is the deep one, gameplay-wise. It's a perfectly valid and successful way to design games, and it's a perfectly valid thing to remark on gaming message boards.

By the way, one of the reasons why I dislike Triple Deluxe is that despite having stuff to collect, it DOESN'T exploit the strength of this structure: it's a very linear and "deliberate" game, with levels that offer the same experience and ways to go through obstacles every time.


Yoshi's New Island has structurally nothing to do whatsoever with Wario Land, though, it's absurd to create a big labelled bag and toss both games in, just because both have stuff to collect. YNI is like DKCR, a strictly linear affair with collectible stuff on the way, meaning that if you miss something, you have to again go through the exact same experience. It defeats the whole point of collectibles, structurally, it's bad design.

This can't be compared at all with the exploration/giant puzzle elements of Wario Land games, which are among the finest in the history of level design. Come on. Going through a Wario Land the Shake Dimension level without caring about the collectibles or objectives is extremely short and playable by a baby, whereas going 100% is one of the most thigh, demanding experiences of last generation.

While I agree that collectables in a level can be a good design choice for a particular game, it is not the end-all, be-all, of platformer design. It has clear weaknesses and I have to disagree with you strongly on certain points:


  • Collectibles are a good way to make a game playable both by casual players and gaming veterans
  • That structure also makes replaying a level painless because you can replay it multiple times without doing the exact same thing in it
  • It's actually similar to the scoring system in some games

Let's go over this.

1st point

This is basically the idea of the collectible system; people that aren't as good at playing can just walk through an 'easy' version of the game while more advanced players can 'go for collectibles' and have a more challenging game. In practice, it doesn't really work like that though. In every Nintendo Collectathon Platformer and similars I've played, that's never how the collectables panned out. Instead, collectables turn into an annoying egg hunt. You have to stay on alert for every medal and usually solve a trivial puzzle or maybe make a tricky jump or two to grab one, while completing the level. The gameplay of collecting has almost nothing in common with the actual platforming of the game.

When I play Mario, collecting all the medals doesn't make the levels harder; it doesn't make the platforming more interesting; the jumps and obstacles - the core of the game - are the same. The only difference is that I end up having to stop and grab some trinket which is tedious, not fun or challenging. Collectables only add challenge in a trivial sense that it takes more effort to collect them than not, and some of them can be obnoxiously hidden. It doesn't change the core game though.

Now, games don't necessarily need to be difficult; I'm not saying that we need NES levels of difficulty, but the critique is that many recent games, especially Nintendo games, don't actually implement effective use of their game mechanics, instead opting for simplified levels with Knick-knacks hidden in them. If nothing else, I'll make the following point: Compare the level design between Super Mario World and New Super Mario Bros without the collectable coins. It's fairly different. Now, compare them with the collectables: New Super Mario Bros doesn't come any closer in terms of level design to Super Mario World all because you added in Giant Coins. Adding in Collectables to platformers is not a design choice that makes the game equivalent to others that have a stronger emphases on mastering the game mechanics.



2nd Point

I disagree with this, strongly. If you miss a collectable you have to replay the level, and it's largely the same. But now, you have to keep you eyes peeled and turn over every rock to find it. The level is largely the same, it's repetitive, it's boring. I had this issue with Robobot Planet, it was the weakest part of the game and I hated it. When you miss a collectable, you basically redo the level and do the exact same thing again for at least 90% of the level, but now with more searching, some kind of tricky jump, or some silly 'puzzle.'



3rd Point

God no!
Not even close. As a fan of Devil May Cry and Bullet Hell Shmups (Like Mushihimesama, or Progear) this is actually completely different. The only thing similar is the concept of 'go replay the level to get something you didn't before.' Outside of that the systems are night and day.

With Devil May Cry, you have a fairly deep, complex, combat system, and a game with good level design that takes advantage of that. Getting an S Rank requires real mastery of playing the game. More than that, this mastery of the game IS the game; the game is about the action, the action is the fun part of the game, getting an S Rank simply requires you to play the action part well, so it overlaps with the intended goal of the gameplay perfectly.

With Bullet Hell Shmups, it depends on the game, but the scoring system is usually for people that need more of a challenge, similar to the whole 'coin idea', but with a different implementation. Getting a high score in a shmup basically requires the fundamental skills to beat the game normally, but taken to an extreme with twists - more than that good scoring systems tend to be games in themselves. They act as extensions of the core game that allow you to apply excess skill and get 'even better' at the game, in a way that's in line with the gameplay. This is completely different from coin collecting where you just end up with one off collection items that are really an aside for the game. MacGuffin collecting doesn't make a platformer deeper or make better use of its mechanics; it's just there for filler.

On top of that, both Devil May Cry, which you mentioned, and Bullet Hells, which I mentioned, are difficulty arcade style games with heavy emphases on replayable core gameplay. They're designed to be fun to replay over and over again, the same levels, even if they're no scoring system. How so? Because they have high skill ceilings, level design that allows you use that skill, and they're difficult. Replaying the levels is still exciting and challenging and there's room for improvement.

Does replaying a level in a platformer to get 3 Golden Whatever achieve this? Not even close. Not even close. You're playing the same boring level over and over again, but now canvasing the entire level for the world's largest Sea Bass. A more apt comparison would be something like the Time Attacks in Rayman Origins to Devil May Cry. Now, those time attacks were good because the levels were challenging and fun to replay, and the time attack added on a nifty twist while being truly optional.

A side note, games like Devil May Cry, or Bullet Hells generally don't lock content based on your scores. (At worst, there might be some sort of game breaking costume if you get all 'S' ranks.) This is rather different from other games that lock bonus levels or even game progression based on how many thingies you collect.
______
______
So, in the end, can you make a good game based around 'collect three things in each level if you feel like it? Yes. Is it some evolution of game design that somehow marriages difficulty and accessibility and makes all platforming games better for it? No, no it's not. It has some glaring weaknesses. It's not appropriate to stick it in every game you're making, and that's why it's a very good critique of Nintendo to say that they've been abusing it, since pretty much all their 2D platformers since New Super Mario Bros for the DS have used this design philosophy, and it's made their games boring and 'samey' for it.
 

Simbabbad

Member
I disagree with this, strongly. If you miss a collectable you have to replay the level, and it's largely the same.
Saying this like it's a universal truth, like every game is structured the exact same, is not only wrong but also spectacularly silly. It's simply factually not true in a huge amount of platformers.

I feel the same for the entirety of your post, frankly.
 

Narroo

Member
Saying this like it's a universal truth
Could you give me an example where the content of a level largely changes because you're going after a collectable? Also, all I did was say "I disagree with this strongly." If I disagree with you about something, I'm arguing that's a universal truth?

And I'm aware my post got a bit carried away because I wanted to explain my argument fully, instead of just calling you stupid. The heck is wrong with you?
 

MrBadger

Member
Now, games don't necessarily need to be difficult; I'm not saying that we need NES levels of difficulty, but the critique is that many recent games, especially Nintendo games, don't actually implement effective use of their game mechanics, instead opting for simplified levels with Knick-knacks hidden in them. If nothing else, I'll make the following point: Compare the level design between Super Mario World and New Super Mario Bros without the collectable coins. It's fairly different. Now, compare them with the collectables: New Super Mario Bros doesn't come any closer in terms of level design to Super Mario World all because you added in Giant Coins. Adding in Collectables to platformers is not a design choice that makes the game equivalent to others that have a stronger emphases on mastering the game mechanics.

I'm reading your point as "modern Nintendo games are dull and easy unless you're tediously looking for shiny things" but I would strongly disagree with this example because I think the exact opposite is true.

I've always found Super Mario World to be the game whose level design depends entirely on finding secrets for you to really get the most of the game, while NSMBU's level design is more about the platforming, with the level design focused on tighter platforming challenges and everything being positioned to make speed running fun, and the coins not so much being hidden, just being put in tricky places. Whereas in World, the level design feels fairly flat unless you're constantly checking every pipe or using the feather to fly around to find secret stuff.
 

Narroo

Member
I'm reading your point as "modern Nintendo games are dull and easy unless you're tediously looking for shiny things" but I would strongly disagree with this example because I think the exact opposite is true.
Alomst: The collect-a-thon can be done well, a la Rayman Origins, but many games do it poorly. In particular, Nintendo has been obsessed with this design mechanic over the last few years and it's gotten tired. On top of that, many of the games have gotten duller. When people mention this, the counter argument is usually the 'collect everything' argument, and I disagree with that. I argue that collect 3's are not an evolution of 2D platformers, and that they do not somehow make platformers better.
And Nintendo is the prime culprit of abuse and misuse here.

Also, while the secrets of Super Mario World were amazing, the game still is a good 2D platformer on it's own right. Personally, I find the NSMB series to have really dull levels, even with trinkets. Granted, I haven't played some of the more recent ones because I can only waste so much time and money on a series that bores me to tears, but I find the older Mario games to be a fair bit better since they really challenge you're mastery of the game, as opposed to New Super Mario Bros Land, or NSMB:DS which felt more like a guided tours of Mario for 80% of the game.


Just got Kirby. Hope it's as good as everyone says :)
Fairly good: Kirby has always been a 'my first platformer' sort of game, so it's pretty easy and doesn't really demand any sort of mastery. You'll probably float through it. On the otherhand, it's very well made and the powers are fun, so while they really need difficulty modes for these games, it's still good.
 
Personally, I feel way more satisfaction finishing a level than getting all three trinkets. I would LOVE if Nintendo made a platformer again where the only focus was getting to the end of the level.

That said, I understand why Nintendo chooses to make games like this, and so I love them as they are. The three collectible motif basically allows them to make difficulty optional. Players of all different skills can complete the level and move on, but advanced players can play for the challenge of getting collectibles.

Also, by tying 3 collectibles to a single level, this allows them to reuse assets within the same level. They don't have to create twice as may levels for additional platforming challenges, and they don't have to calibrate the difficulty level for these levels.

If they do a "straight to the end" platformer, I hope they try it with the Mario series. NSMB is desperately in need of a shake up, and I can't even get myself to play the copy of NSMBU that I got for free. Maybe they can go back to the roots of A-to-B while simultaneously innovating, much like how Breath of the Wild brings back a lot from the original Legend of Zelda.
 

Zero-ELEC

Banned
Personally, I feel way more satisfaction finishing a level than getting all three trinkets. I would LOVE if Nintendo made a platformer again where the only focus was getting to the end of the level.

That said, I understand why Nintendo chooses to make games like this, and so I love them as they are. The three collectible motif basically allows them to make difficulty optional. Players of all different skills can complete the level and move on, but advanced players can play for the challenge of getting collectibles.

Also, by tying 3 collectibles to a single level, this allows them to reuse assets within the same level. They don't have to create twice as may levels for additional platforming challenges, and they don't have to calibrate the difficulty level for these levels.

If they do a "straight to the end" platformer, I hope they try it with the Mario series. NSMB is desperately in need of a shake up, and I can't even get myself to play the copy of NSMBU that I got for free. Maybe they can go back to the roots of A-to-B while simultaneously innovating, much like how Breath of the Wild brings back a lot from the original Legend of Zelda.

Yo, but, NSMBU is straight up one of the best 2D Mario games.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
I don't get the complaints about this in Kirby. Collecting trinkets have been part of the series for a long time. At least we don't need to collect all of them to face the last boss in this game.
 

Sciz

Member
NSMB is desperately in need of a shake up, and I can't even get myself to play the copy of NSMBU that I got for free.
If you want dedicated, serious A-to-B platforming, boot up NSMBU and go for gold medals in challenge mode. It's where they hid all the difficulty.

I don't get the complaints about this in Kirby. Collecting trinkets have been part of the series for a long time. At least we don't need to collect all of them to face the last boss in this game.

HAL's implementation of the concept is repetitive and predictable, which is boring, which is the exact opposite of the intent of this sort of thing. At least the gold keychains and stickers can be literally anywhere and it actually feels rewarding to stumble across one. Same goes for the Smash rooms and HAL rooms. But code cubes and their ilk are pure busy work, devoid of any sense of accomplishment. Even star coins are placed in more interesting ways, and I'm pretty tired of Mario's bullshit too.
 
This is great. I mean, it's really nothing special considering its just more simple Kirby fun, but I'm enjoying it. The robot mechanic is fun and nowhere near as hamfisted as other recent Kirby game gimmicks, like the super attacks in RtDL.

Very enjoyable game! Also the throwback music rules.
 
Just beat the game with all cubes. The ending is batshit crazy.

I was laughing out loud when the game becomes
Kirby vs Intergalactic Capitalism. There were even dollar bills on the screen. And this culminates in Mecha Kirby turning into Halberd and doing barrel rolls.

I suppose it makes sense for Kirby to fight capitalism though, since he already beat Marx.

Fantastic game. Poison is my favorite new power. The purple gushing skull-hat, riding waves of sludge, and spitting mist clouds of death are all awesome.

And bring back Susie.


If you want dedicated, serious A-to-B platforming, boot up NSMBU and go for gold medals in challenge mode. It's where they hid all the difficulty.

I'm not so concerned about super-hard kaizu difficulty as much as getting some classic A-to-B platforming. I'll check it out sometime though.
 

TheMoon

Member
long time viewer, first time caller

This is da best kirby game. holy crap. I'm only in W4 now but I'm constantly blown away and I had played KTD right before this and loved that already. So many cool ideas ...
 
I wish the 3D mini game was elaborated on. Perhaps it's a vision of the future and we'll be getting a 3D Kirby game of similar vain?
 
The "shmup" levels are incredibly satisfying. I hope we get a spin-off of these. The best in a platformer since
recent Rayman games.
They're great ways to diversify the level lineup that's for sure! Although after Super Star and RtDL they're a tad derivative. Still fun! Wish there was a full shmup game for 3DS with similar production values.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
I wish the 3D mini game was elaborated on. Perhaps it's a vision of the future and we'll be getting a 3D Kirby game of similar vain?

Maybe. They were probably afraid of wasting too much time on what's supposed to be a side game. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a test for a full fledged 3D Kirby, though.
 

Conezays

Member
Just picked this game up last night. A question regarding the cubes: if I replay a level I've already finished and grab a cube I previously missed, can I exit the stage and keep the cube(s)?
 

TheMoon

Member
Just picked this game up last night. A question regarding the cubes: if I replay a level I've already finished and grab a cube I previously missed, can I exit the stage and keep the cube(s)?

It says you don't keep anything you found whenever you quit a stage. But you do keep the power-up you had when quitting.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Just picked this game up last night. A question regarding the cubes: if I replay a level I've already finished and grab a cube I previously missed, can I exit the stage and keep the cube(s)?

No, you have to finish the level. Won't take long if you've already beaten it and collected other cubes, though.
 
The one thing I feel this game lacks is the ability to refight the bosses with the robobot (also several abilities for the robobot, but supposedly Amiibos can unlock them?). Triple Deluxe let you "fight" some of them with Hypernova, and it was so satisfying.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Finished.

This game was a better Star Fox than Star Fox Zero. Take notes, Platinum.

I was tempted to make a thread about that especially after
taking on Star Dream Soul.
I mean, people make hyperbolic/needless threads all the time!
 

Rymuth

Member
I was tempted to make a thread about that especially after
taking on Star Dream Soul.
I mean, people make hyperbolic/needless threads all the time!
Bwhaahahaha! I was thinking the exact same thing. Was letting the idea ruminate for a while.

It was going to be titled 'After playing Planet Robobot, Platinum Games should be ashamed' or something.

But I'm not in the mood to take flak for it. Bottom line is: HAL Laboratories did an amazing job.
 

TheMoon

Member
Bwhaahahaha! I was thinking the exact same thing. Was letting the idea ruminate for a while.

It was going to be titled 'After playing Planet Robobot, Platinum Games should be ashamed' or something.

But I'm not in the mood to take flak for it. Bottom line is: HAL Laboratories did an amazing job.

Good, had my cannons ready lol.
 
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