Why, though? Legit question, I don't know about him.
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Kojima: Overly sexualized women in DS will be given a deep background story"
- Thread starter Lime
- Start date
PinkCrayon
Member
fam if you want to make a bunch of high poly sexy ladies just say so.
He was also basically in a coma, pushed around in a wheelchair presumably to conserve energy. Maybe he is suffering from body image issues and wasn't comfortable in his own skin.
I don't know why you're lumping me into that statement, which was obviously not my intent or meaning for that matter. But if it's gonna be like that, I'm just gonna step away from the thread now.
John Kowalski
Banned
He's -not- pretty faced and being bisexual shouldn't mean he's inherently more sexual than a straight man, lol. I get that he's shirtless, I can see his ribs.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Prime example: In MGS4 theres a scene where he licks a knife then sticks it into a sheath positioned directly between his legs.
Vamp is just one penis metaphor after another.
Hes a sexually charged character. Whether he is traditionally attractive or not I don't think is even apart of the question.
Fbh
Member
"she is half naked because...Like...She was born in a small village in Siberia which was destroyed. But ...Ummm... The game takes place in a warmer location and so she is allways half naked so that she feels a bit colder and remembers her village and what she is fighting for".
Sexualization justified!!!!!
Sexualization justified!!!!!
Yeah you are right, shame on me.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You're questioning whether a character has some sexuality is inherently misogynistic. It's not. But here's the problem. Quiet has NO sexuality whatsoever. Nothing she ever does has anything even remotely to do with sex. It says so much about this medium that sexualization is routinely confused for sexuality.
SolarMystic
Member
As if Off-Topic isn't depressing enough, we are getting tons of people in here defending this misogynistic bullshit.
Enough is enough.
Enough is enough.
Solid Raiden
Neo Member
Regardless, it sells for the same reason. It seems hypocritical to me to say the consumption of the sexualization of women is OK in some situations but not others. Call me old school, but if something is wrong, it's wrong. Half naked women thrusting their ass into a camera are either OK or they aren't.
triplestation
Member
tits + story = tits
theangrypirate
Member
I'm not sure it's misogynistic. Why is it so bad to have sexy ladies/men in my video games?
I think he being downright ugly and scary is absolutely part of the question, as sexualized women in games are usually not ugly and scary. I'll concede that there's a sexual component to his character, but he's not intended to be attractive. Hence, why "people sleep on him", because he's not attractive and I'd argue Snake himself is a much more attractive character in this series. While NOT being male Quiet, the truth is male Quiet is simply not a thing. And that's good, lol.
Angry Fork
Member
They think it's misogynistic, they're offended. The people who don't like it for story reasons (like me) don't like mgs5's story in general and aren't going out of their way to focus on quiet.
MGS has always been both serious and comedic/weird. Quiet's inclusion is weird, like Raiden cartwheeling naked in mgs2 is weird. It's not malicious, which is what people are acting like.
A straight writer writing a character like Quiet, and a straight lead male character like Snake, for primarily straight male gamers, isn't a slight against humanity. If a female (or a gay man) wrote something aimed at women/gay men, featuring sexualized male characters, that would be 100% okay. There's nothing wrong with that because there's nothing wrong with sexuality. Many people here are using "context" disingenuously, when their real opinion is that a straight male writer shouldn't write sexualized female characters.
There is no context where all angry people would be pacified, so the only reasonable solution to make everyone happy is for Kojima to not write sexualized women at all. That's why it's puritanism. Not to mention people are selectively picking Quiet as if it's the only type of female character Kojima has done, or that male characters haven't been shown just as sexualized in previous games.
Like I said earlier, there are different sects/waves of feminists as there are sex-positive people and sex-negative people. The people raging at Kojima are doing it from a sex-negative perspective imo, but they don't realize it because they're incapable of being objective about both sexes or thinking that women can be sexualized in fiction without jumping to the conclusion that the writer thinks women in real life are dolls.
Complicated
Banned
I'm sure I'll continue to be disappointed with Kojima's output in comparison to his words. It would be less embarrassing if he didn't keep insisting he's going to not fuck it up so completely. He's the Peter Molyneux of sexualizing women in video games.
LordOcidax
Member
SolarMystic
Member
Read the thread dude. Plenty of reasons and explanations why this isn't about "just" a "sexy" lady.
Via Purifico
Banned
Not to mention intellectually insulting, I have more issues with that than just outright saying I like big boobs and want them in my game.
SerTapTap
Member
Kojima seriously needs to start reading Kenichiro Takaki's interviews. Dude is so honest, genuine and passionate even interviewers can't do much to grill him on any of this stuff. He likes big boobs, he puts big boobs in video games. That's actually totally fine.
Just don't be like "they're actually large because she's smuggling top secret nanomachines".
He never does this kind of BS for the other awkward sexual tension stuff, does he? I've never seen an interview where he's like "Ocelot had to kiss Snake to transfer nanomachines"
Just don't be like "they're actually large because she's smuggling top secret nanomachines".
He never does this kind of BS for the other awkward sexual tension stuff, does he? I've never seen an interview where he's like "Ocelot had to kiss Snake to transfer nanomachines"
Raiden didn't get interviews where he claimed it was a for a really good reason and people should be ashamed when they realized the real reason.
He did so for quiet.
It rings absurdity like if a porn director said there is actually a good backstory to why the porn stars are going to have sex in X scene
SapphiCine
Member
theangrypirate
Member
I think he is just trolling those that are sensitive to sexualization in games with these explanations. It's almost like he is coming up with brain dead excuses on purpose, well at least with Quiet.
That's...The opposite of what he's doing though...
whalleywhat
Member
Stop liking attractive women, men. How many times do we have to tell you?
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Words to live by.
Complicated
Banned
It's possible yes, but he's still putting porn plotlines into his $50-100 million action video game projects. I don't see how he's the winner by making his games shitty in certain aspects.
Did anyone even ask about it in regards to Raiden? I mean, you can't fault him for not answering a question to an interview that never happened.
Pinko Marx
Banned
First of all I don't think Vamp was meant to be ugly.
This is my man in MGS2:
In 4 he definitely loses some of his pretty boy looks (maybe because of story reasons or his transition to a main villain in 4) but he even still has that layer of swag and confidence about him
Scary could also translate to dangerous, which is an attractive trait to a good number of women. But I guess if you don't see it you don't see it and we'll just have to disagree.
NullPointer
Member
I don't know. I think he actually enjoys tortured or elaborate oddball explanations.
Wasn't joking when I said it could be his fetish. Seems to be that way with everything else - why not with titillation?
Is this really what you get from these discussions? For real? Lol.
Except not everyone thinks like you and feels it makes the games worse, in fact you and people like you are probably in the minority
RevolverRoden
Member
Ok FUCK off kojima. Is he really saying this bullshit again???
What a dunce.
What a dunce.
LordOcidax
Member
SolarMystic
Member
Bullshit argument and you know it.
whalleywhat
Member
Really.
What is the argument? What point are you trying to make? What contrition do you expect?
The great aspect about Vamp is his desire for it. He clearly has fun doing those things and he loves playing with Raiden. He wants you to feel uncomfortable and shocked, so he can distract and disarm you emotional.
But he worked much better as a wired boss in MGS2. In MGS4 Kojima tried making him into a nemesis for Raiden and those element go over the top. They are dangerous close here to have a negative homosexual undertone through sexual abuse and attack on the sexuality of Raiden. It is only saved, through Raiden ignoring all this sexual undertone and stays straight, while fighting him (which in return could be another undertone ... Vamp is wired ... and he has no reason to be in the game).
Angry Fork
Member
Because everyone was bitching about Quiet because people rage a lot more now at everything. Nobody cared about Raiden because a naked male body is not a big deal at all.
A more reasonable thing to be upset about is if Konami forced Quiet's voice actress to do promotional shit in the bikini as part of her contract or whatever. That would be fucked up and something people should be outraged about because that's real life.
I mean, it wasn't me who brought to the discussion that "people sleep on Vamp". The reality is that he's not considered to be an attractive character. You can believe him being gross and scary is going to be attractive for someone, somewhere. But Snake himself is a character that is actually perceived as attractive by a lot of people, unlike Vamp.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You like seeing rape victims dressed in sexy halloween versions of hospital outfits and having collectible decorative posters?
How about some sexualized torture scenes for women?
And tops that magically open when a woman is being murdered and about to be raped?
You wanna try asking that question again or if it's actually misogynistic?
theangrypirate
Member
I've been playing Kojima games since MGS on ps1 and I've never seen anything pornographic in anything he's made. In general his games have a serious plot line with not so serious side content. Characters with uncontrollable diarrhea, roller blading fat guys in bomb suits, shirtless vampires, Snipers with tons of cleavage in subzero weather, cyborg time traveling fucking ninjas, the list goes on. It's not out of place in these universes to have some titillation. I don't see how excluding some sexualized characters in these already insane worlds makes the game world less believable or more shitty. It's not like players are sexually assaulting anyone or relegating female characters to the kitchen. It's always been quite the opposite in my experience. Lots of strong female characters and some are also sexualized.