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Kojima responds to the criticism of Quiet in MGSV
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Deleted member 57681
Unconfirmed Member
I don't even wanna begin to respond to that.
I don't think anyone is arguing that the character will be deeper than her appearance. What the uproar is about is that Kojima stated that they were actively sexualizing her to drive cosplay and figurine sales. While Kojima has had sexualized characters in the past, he has never been as blunt with his reasoning. On top of that, he now adds this excuse to the criticism of Quiet, which doesn't really make much sense.
Yeah. Amazing, amazing!
The lack of gameplay only goes to show what a genius Kojima is. The hours of cutscenes makes you crave the gameplay more, and serves to make what little gameplay there is all the more meaningful and... precious!
There is a lot of confusion to do with how exactly 'Ground Zeroes' and 'Phantom Pain' constitute MGS V. I believe I know the answer: 'Ground Zeroes' is a metaphor for the battle between Western and Japanese game development. Ground Zeroes begins in a Western style open-world where actual gameplay takes place. This slowly begins to diminish as longer and longer cutscenes occur, until you reach 'Phantom Pain' where the gameplay is condensed down to a single button press. Yes, it is only one button press, but knowing Koijma, i'm sure it will be the greatest button press in gaming history!
This is the 'victory' Kojima speaks of. People will be talking about that one amazing button press for years to come.
pixlexic said:
She can be built entirely out of nano-machines and it wouldn't matter, no one's ignoring the skin camo theory for some cause because her ability is completely beside the point.
I love it when people come to this issue and go 'hurrr I guess they're making an issue out of it because she has few clothes on...'.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
DEAD
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Not surprised at all that there is a bigger reason behind it than just wanting a more erotic looking character, but even if he did just want a more erotic looking character and nothing else, I don't see anything wrong with that, but what I've come to expect from Kojima is that he knows exactly what he's doing and I won't be disappointed.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
If I need to guess, the "fighting game" part was actually "action game" and was mistranslated. But dunno, some needs to check the text in Japanese.
Risk Breaker
Member
).Femmeworth
Banned
I have faith in Kojima
to fall flat on his face with whatever he does with her.
to fall flat on his face with whatever he does with her.
lordchompy
Member
So why didn't he say all this in the beginning instead of 'she's candidly clad to sell toy figures and encourage cos-players.'
Because the latter is probably his true intention.
I have no faith that her appearance will be justified in any proper way.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
And he did actually said that there was another reason.
AHA-Lambda
Member
So he's basically pulling the "you just don't understand!" card? :-/
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Does Kojima actually speak English?
I've only ever heard him say like one or two words of it at a time, so I figured no.
Maybe, he could've learned more over time though.
I've only ever heard him say like one or two words of it at a time, so I figured no.
Maybe, he could've learned more over time though.
Dark Octave
Banned
She has kind of a bikini top on (typical videogame stuff). Her chest isn't ridiculously big. Her face is average at best by videogame standards. She is showing no leg or booty from what I've seen.
I really don't understand what the big deal is.
When he straight up says, "The initial target is to make u want to do cosplay or its figurine to sell well", it kind of makes one think that everything else is secondary, right?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Well, we have no context story wise... So...
Yeah, at least to a degree. Is just that is not as uncommon as you think. I mean, you think Phoenix didn't got the design it got because seemed to appeal to key demographics?
(Not defending the design, just the condemn)
shinobi602
Member
You don't know just how shameless I am Kojima.
toddhunter
Member
MGS3 was all kinds of stupid. Yet I got extremely emotional at the end and I know I am not alone. MGS4 less so, but it is still remarkable that he managed to salvage so much.
I believe he is trolling somewhat and going somewhere with this. He has earnt my personal benefit of the doubt that he can bring together something meaningful.
CaptainSlow
Member
In Kojima I trust.
I'm ready for the batshit craziness of a MGS story.
I'm ready for the batshit craziness of a MGS story.
The Silver
Member
MGS4 is really the only game people can say Kojima went crazy in with the jiggling boobs and the B&B unit.
But honestly every aspect of MGS4 was ridiculous, Kojima went full troll mode in that game.
But honestly every aspect of MGS4 was ridiculous, Kojima went full troll mode in that game.
You mean Wright? Well, it's really two different things in terms of character design. I don't know what was the philosophy behind Phoenix Wright's character design, but its goal certainly wasn't to support the game's story.
I'm actually not condemning Quiet's design 'cause I honestly don't really care and he can design a character to be attractive all he wants, but I'm not going to just accept that Quiet's design is actually crucial to whatever her story is based on what he's said earlier.
There is nothing wrong with having a sexual, scantily clad character, particularly if they are used sensibly and coherently within the narrative of the story, which is what Kojima seems to be implying that he does....
However, I struggle to think of a female game model in the MGS series that wasn't ridiculously sexualized, often for no reason or atleast were very sexual. Why did Sniper Wolf feel she had to have an open cleavage in fucking Antarctica? Meryl's ass was a plot point, and her (supposed) asexuality was hammered on while constantly remarking things like how she doesn't wear a bra. In MGS2, Fortune wore a leather leotard and nothing else the entire game. Emma was mostly covered up, which is good because she looks like she's 13 otherwise, but all she went on was about how much she wanted to bone otacon. Olga is probably the only one, but she also spends most of the game disguised as a man, so sexualizing her would have been a giveaway (that said, who wants to bet that Snake discovered her secret by closely watching Mr. X's ass?). MGS3 we have Eva, who is obviously sexual and the Boss who remained unsexualized until the end where she undid her shirt for no real reason except extremely forced visual symbolism. And then MGS4 went all out with the perviness when Kojima went out of his way to oogle women who are suppose to be traumatized, mentally handicapped women (The B&B corp was the dumbest thing ever), while also putting special attention towards Naomi's undone shirt and Mei Ling's ass. The only female character in MGS4 that wasn't sexualized was Sunny (an 10 year old girl) and perhaps the FROGS (if they even count as characters). Most other women, like Para-Medic, are in the codec window, where it's harder to show them off. And even then, he managed to do it with Rosemary with the tit flipping feature on the PS3 controller. I didn't play Peace Walker or the other MGS games, but there is Paz and I'm sure that she's not the only one.
Sexualization isn't necessarily bad. In some cases, the sexualization can add to the character (In MGS4, Snake perving on Mei Ling's ass despite her being sensibly dressed is a character statement enforcing how decayed he is. Contrast how effortlessly he flirted with her in the opening of the first game and now he's reduced to immaturely peaking at her butt when she drops a pen. It's a shame that Mei Ling's sexualization is a statement on a male character rather than Mei Ling herself, but my point is that it can be used effectively in a narrative space.). And in Eva's case, given her backstory and goals, she can't be anything other than sexual to accomplish her mission. And, to his credit, Kojima also unnecessarily sexualizes men (Liquid not wearing a shirt ever (also in Antarctica), Vamp, the Snakes, and Raiden), not to the same extent, but that he puts in the effort for equal treatment is commendable, I suppose.
But he can't seriously get surprised that people think he's just sexualizing a women for no reason when that's what he's been doing for 15 years. Even if he has given Quiet plenty of narrative justification for it, like he did with Eva, it's ridiculously to take him at his word that this is a matter of artistic integrity rather than exploiting sexuality for an audience given his history or his own perving.
However, I struggle to think of a female game model in the MGS series that wasn't ridiculously sexualized, often for no reason or atleast were very sexual. Why did Sniper Wolf feel she had to have an open cleavage in fucking Antarctica? Meryl's ass was a plot point, and her (supposed) asexuality was hammered on while constantly remarking things like how she doesn't wear a bra. In MGS2, Fortune wore a leather leotard and nothing else the entire game. Emma was mostly covered up, which is good because she looks like she's 13 otherwise, but all she went on was about how much she wanted to bone otacon. Olga is probably the only one, but she also spends most of the game disguised as a man, so sexualizing her would have been a giveaway (that said, who wants to bet that Snake discovered her secret by closely watching Mr. X's ass?). MGS3 we have Eva, who is obviously sexual and the Boss who remained unsexualized until the end where she undid her shirt for no real reason except extremely forced visual symbolism. And then MGS4 went all out with the perviness when Kojima went out of his way to oogle women who are suppose to be traumatized, mentally handicapped women (The B&B corp was the dumbest thing ever), while also putting special attention towards Naomi's undone shirt and Mei Ling's ass. The only female character in MGS4 that wasn't sexualized was Sunny (an 10 year old girl) and perhaps the FROGS (if they even count as characters). Most other women, like Para-Medic, are in the codec window, where it's harder to show them off. And even then, he managed to do it with Rosemary with the tit flipping feature on the PS3 controller. I didn't play Peace Walker or the other MGS games, but there is Paz and I'm sure that she's not the only one.
Sexualization isn't necessarily bad. In some cases, the sexualization can add to the character (In MGS4, Snake perving on Mei Ling's ass despite her being sensibly dressed is a character statement enforcing how decayed he is. Contrast how effortlessly he flirted with her in the opening of the first game and now he's reduced to immaturely peaking at her butt when she drops a pen. It's a shame that Mei Ling's sexualization is a statement on a male character rather than Mei Ling herself, but my point is that it can be used effectively in a narrative space.). And in Eva's case, given her backstory and goals, she can't be anything other than sexual to accomplish her mission. And, to his credit, Kojima also unnecessarily sexualizes men (Liquid not wearing a shirt ever (also in Antarctica), Vamp, the Snakes, and Raiden), not to the same extent, but that he puts in the effort for equal treatment is commendable, I suppose.
But he can't seriously get surprised that people think he's just sexualizing a women for no reason when that's what he's been doing for 15 years. Even if he has given Quiet plenty of narrative justification for it, like he did with Eva, it's ridiculously to take him at his word that this is a matter of artistic integrity rather than exploiting sexuality for an audience given his history or his own perving.
JordoftheDead
Member
It will be something equally as cringe-worthy, like the backgrounds justifying names like Laughing Octopus In MGS 4.
Either way, I'm sure I will be in fits of laughter.
Maybe Kojima goes all Crying Game with this one...
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
I agree that I bet is not crucial, and what he said didn't up my hopes. But I'm in the approach of wait and see. Kojima has his faults, but he is not stupid (or at least knows how to hype/annoy the crowd).
Like I said, I can get mad when I don't even know the actual context of that character.
"you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."
Hahaha, perfect.
This doesn't make any sense at all, how does skin camo mean she needs to wear the clothes she is wearing.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I'm all for waiting until we have proper context, but the problem is Kojima already gave us some pretty gross context already with his cosplay comments.
That1BlackGuy
Member
He shouldn't have to justify his actions however I love how he always tries to sound deep whenever he explains something.
AHA-Lambda
Member
It still amazes me how people will defend this tbh, if this was any other developer people would be all over it like flies on shit but cos its Kojima, nope.
And don't get me wrong, I love Kojima and Metal Gear but his original comments don't fly in 2013, and I don't trust his writing skills to deal with the taboos of race.
And don't get me wrong, I love Kojima and Metal Gear but his original comments don't fly in 2013, and I don't trust his writing skills to deal with the taboos of race.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
She has chameleon skin. She's nearly naked so that she can use her mutant powers more effectively.
jacksepticeye
Member
Will he pull an MGS2 again?
I bet he'll make her out to be a super hot half naked girl and then something will happen and it will be almost like he's mocking you for thinking that way about her and then she can never be viewed the same again
Drop it on us Koji-san
I bet he'll make her out to be a super hot half naked girl and then something will happen and it will be almost like he's mocking you for thinking that way about her and then she can never be viewed the same again
Drop it on us Koji-san
You're right. Obviously, she should be nude to more effectively use her skin camo ability (like Mystique in the X-men movies). I can't believe Kojima is censoring his artistic creativity and designs that would actually make sense for the character just to satisfy the PC police. Get a spine, Kojima! It's 2013, people, a woman is allowed to wear as little clothes as she wishes!
#Nudity4Quiet
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Well, Dah?
Some of us trust him to a degree because he is often capable of subvert expectations.And is not like we would not likealy shit in the story post realese.
I mean, people still listen to Peter Moleaniux even when we know that is full of shit.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
There's a 50+ page thread on it here. The last thread that big was Phil Fish.
I wouldn't be on it like anything, because I don't care.
I don't get what all the fuss is about in the first place. Who cares what the character looks like? So what's the problem? Objectification of women? Yeah, 'cause that never happens in video games. Sexualization? Sure, that never happens either. Oh, a soldier wouldn't dress like that? It's not realistic? Have you played a Metal Gear game before?
Seriously, does anyone besides Tits McGee over at 343 actually care?
Seriously, does anyone besides Tits McGee over at 343 actually care?
clockworkinyou
Banned
Don't give in koji
Are people not supposed to care about objectification of women or sexualization in video games because it's so prevalent?
Moral Panic
Member
I hate when people use this as an excuse. The character wasn't leaked, it was shown to us. If you don't what us to make an opinion on it based on what we can see/what you've shown, then don't show it. Don't talk about some mystical context when you aren't willing to tell us that context.
I care. Sexual objectification is wrong. That the rest of the industry, including the 343 guy, shares this problem is a shame and it should be called out on being so.
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