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[jacksepticeye]

No mention of "SENSE".

Even Kojima is ashamed of MGS4

 

[Gbraga]

MGSV |OT| You Will Feel Ashamed

MGSV |OT| Please be Quiet

 

[Igo]

This isn't sexy, it's supposed to be funny.

Is it? Looks like yaoi fanservice for the ladies to me.

 

[SnakeLinkSonic]

We need peace!

 

[sleepykyo]

"you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."

Saw it in the other thread and it is still amazing. Scratch that, the quote makes it even more amazing.

 

[eyeless]

 

[hateradio]

http://i.imgur.com/QEOKQr1.png

 

[Trike]

If I need to guess, the "fighting game" part was actually "action game" and was mistranslated. But dunno, some needs to check the text in Japanese.

That would make sense, but google translate doesn't confirm. Then again it also isn't very effective, can someone confirm if it really is "fighting game"?

I mean, it doesn't hold up his argument that much better considering he is doing the exact same things for the same reasons. But at least he doesn't look like a drunkard in this situation.

 

[duckroll]

格闘ゲーム is definitely fighting games. There's no ambiguity about it. He's not talking about action games in general, but stuff like DoA and Soul Caliber.

 

[greycolumbus]

Even Kojima is ashamed of MGS4

hehehe

Well hopefully it bodes well for V.

 

[sleepykyo]

格闘ゲーム is definitely fighting games. There's no ambiguity about it. He's not talking about action games in general, but stuff like DoA and Soul Caliber.

So everyone is passing the buck to someone else? From Halo staff trying to take the high ground by using Kojima to Kojima throwing fighting games under the bus now?

 

[Draper]

I'm sorry, and not to say it makes it any better, but when has he not objectified women in his games?

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

格闘ゲーム is definitely fighting games. There's no ambiguity about it. He's not talking about action games in general, but stuff like DoA and Soul Caliber.

Ok.

Then, yeah Trike, you are right, is a weak ass excuse.

 

[duckroll]

So everyone is passing the buck to someone else? From Halo staff trying to take the high ground by using Kojima to Kojima throwing fighting games under the bus now?

Cycle of shame.

 

[ThroneZwei]

So everyone is passing the buck to someone else? From Halo staff trying to take the high ground by using Kojima to Kojima throwing fighting games under the bus now?

Well, he did throw MGS fans under the bus when he made MGS2. Quite literally, given the in game context and the character swap.

I'm sorry, and not to say it makes it any better, but when has he not objectified women in his games?

Well, in MGS1 both of the leading ladies were quite strong characters. MGS2, Fortune was a strong wife and daughter. In MGS3 he made the Boss, which should give him a pass to this type of criticism forever. Eva fills her role as a spy. MGS4 even though the beauties...are beautiful, they're insane. And they have strong dominant forms that you fight before hand.

 

[greycolumbus]

Well, in MGS1 both of the leading ladies were quite strong characters. MGS2, Fortune was a strong wife and daughter. In MGS3 he made the Boss, which should give him a pass to this type of criticism forever. Eva fills her role as a spy. MGS4 even though the beauties...are beautiful, they're insane. And they have strong dominant forms that you fight before hand.

MGS2 would probably be the prime example for me. I can't think of anything particularly objectionable about E.E., Olga, or Fortune.

 

[ThroneZwei]

MGS2 would probably be the prime example for me. I can't think of anything particularly objectionable about E.E., Olga, or Fortune.

Oh yeah. I mean, EE is a damsel in distress technically...but

Spoiler

She chose to help create Arsenal to sort of...not one up her brother, but because she wanted him to notice her IIRC?

Olga is an amazing character. She's doing everything she can for her daughter. Man, she's such a great character now that I think about it.

 

[Roto13]

MGS2 would probably be the prime example for me. I can't think of anything particularly objectionable about E.E., Olga, or Fortune.

Fortune's wearing a one piece bathing suit, I guess.

 

[semiconscious]

MGSV |OT| Please be Quiet

or,

MGSV |OT| Quiet Is Golden...

 

[fallagin]

"you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."

Oh dear god, this is amazong.

 

[Maedhros]

He shouldn't had to address this matter in the first place, there's nothing wrong with the character.

 

[Zoc]

I'm not offended by that design in the least, but I do think it's stupid, both by itself and because it means I won't be able to play the game in front of anyone. The MGS series has always had things like this, though. Every MGS games has had one half that I really liked, serious and well thought out, and another half that is just moronically stupid.

 

[Zen]

Uhhh, YES. Raiden is a classic bishounen character! He has long hair, he's soft spoken, and compared to nearly every other male in the series his face is relatively feminine. Everything from the section where he runs around naked, the skin tight suit and the butt shots in some scenes (as many female characters often have) is sexualized.

There's a big difference between being sexy or attractive and what Quiet is being pushed as. No one takes issue with a plethora of other MGS women, or for that matter original Quiet.

 

[Intheflorsh]

I'm not offended by that design in the least, but I do think it's stupid, both by itself and because it means I won't be able to play the game in front of anyone. The MGS series has always had things like this, though. Every MGS games has had one half that I really liked, serious and well thought out, and another half that is just moronically stupid.

You will feel ashamed- to play this game in public.

 

[base shagohod]

MGSV |OT| Please be Quiet

This one got me.

 

[The_Macho_King]

That forearm blow to the head from Liquid gets me every time it loops.

Kojima is god and Quiet is sexy. Day one.

 

[Despera]

Some of the responses here sadden me.

I hope this doesn't result in any alterations to Kojima's vision of the game.

 

[aly]

I asked this in the other thread but here is maybe better.

What do the women on Gaf think of the character Quiet? Is the way she's dressed offensive to you?

Nope. But mostly because I look at MGS as a bunch of nonsense anyway. Nor do I think every character should be made to appeal to everyone. If Kojima wants her dressed that way due to cosplay sex appeal that's fine. Nothing wrong with attractive women.If she has a convoluted back story to explain it then I think I would be fine with that too. For now most of us know nothing, and I'll wait till the game comes out before deciding if I'm offended or not.

 

[Majukun]

his answer shold have been "i do whatever i want with my game,go eat a dick"

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

All I can think of is that she's allergic to clothes. I hope he has good reason to say that but I feel like he's probably setting himself up for a backfire.

 

[MormaPope]

Remember EVA from MGS3? Tons of first person moments during cutscenes where you can look at her tits, her ass, her getting dressed. Then context was given on why she acts so flirty and sexy, you can even see she is willing to get STD's to complete her mission. The intention the writers/Kojima had in mind was a emotional switcharoo, EVA seemed to be sex bunny that amounted to fan service of past MGS heroines. What ends up happening is the player becomes symptomatic towards EVA and her struggle.

One of MGS3's main themes was how loyalty and proclaiming yourself part of a nation can be toxic or sacrificial. EVA was willing to give up her body for her mission.

I expect Quiet will not disappoint in the character development department. Especially since Kojima is coming out and saying there's more that meets the eye.

 

[Sou]

Quiet is actually a man.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Well, he did throw MGS fans under the bus when he made MGS2. Quite literally, given the in game context and the character swap.

I really think you need to look up the meaning of literally. Also as somebody who was a big MGS fan pre 4 I thought 2 was the best in the series.

 

[Koozek]

Maybe the whole thing with her has to do with that taboo he said he wanted to incorporate in the game? I wonder if he kept that part, as he once remarked that he'd be afraid of it landing him in trouble and making it impossible to release the game in its full intended state.
You guys having any clue about that taboo stuff (besides race/racism)?

 

[Christhor]

Quiet is actually a man.

She certainly has the face of one, so maybe you're right.

 

[Catalix]

MGSV |OT| You Will Feel Ashamed

MGSV |OT| WORDS (& deeds) THAT KILL

 

[Alienous]

MGSV |OT| The Phantom Shame.

 

[Dead Man]

If you are going to do sexy for the sake of sexy then say so.

Don't do sexy and then try to pass if off as something else.

Exactly. That is what is funny to watch, the people insisting there are good valid reasons to wear stockings into combat.

 

[Professor Lich]

I dunno, she always looks so damn sad to me. I like the outfit but I don't find her mood appealing.

 

[godhandiscen]

Kojima's critics about society thought well intended get lost in the sea of shit that is his story telling.

 

[Bronetta]

Hideo Kojima - A visionary robbed of his future.

 

[watershed]

Whatever the reasoning behind quiet, it's going to be absurd and nonsensical like it is with all of his characters.

 

[hateradio]

I don't understand what he's talking about . . . Oh, it's Kojima.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Theme of "MGSV" is "GENE"⇒"MEME"⇒"SCENE"⇒"PEACE"⇒"RACE". Story touches the misunderstanding, prejudice, hatred, conflict caused by the difference of language, race, custom, culture, and preference. The response of "Quiet" disclosure few days ago incited by the net is exactly what "MGSV" itself is.

Is he saying that people criticizing Quiet's design = racial prejudice? XD

Ohhhh I know. Quiet is really secretly a black man who just uses nanomachines to disguise himself as a pretty white woman, and it's a statement on racism because #MESSAGE#DEEP

Ah, so we have to know her tragic backstory to understand why she dresses like that. That'll probably go as well as those "let me tell you a long boring story about these B&B girls you just killed" Drebin scenes

"Laughing Badger watched her whole family killed by badgers. She still hears the screams of the badgers in her sleep, badgering her mind. The evil badger spirit lives on in her, consume by rage, where all she can do is laugh. She also has to dress in very tight outfits and we got sexy official 3D renders because badgers killed her whole family."

I'm dying here, thank you for that.

Its going to be some Kojima anime bullshit like "she has to be naked because if she doesnt absorb X amount of sunlight she will DIE" isnt it? That wouldnt make it better.

According to many people, apparently it would. So... yeah.

There is nothing wrong with having a sexual, scantily clad character, particularly if they are used sensibly and coherently within the narrative of the story, which is what Kojima seems to be implying that he does....

However, I struggle to think of a female game model in the MGS series that wasn't ridiculously sexualized, often for no reason or atleast were very sexual. Why did Sniper Wolf feel she had to have an open cleavage in fucking Antarctica? Meryl's ass was a plot point, and her (supposed) asexuality was hammered on while constantly remarking things like how she doesn't wear a bra. In MGS2, Fortune wore a leather leotard and nothing else the entire game. Emma was mostly covered up, which is good because she looks like she's 13 otherwise, but all she went on was about how much she wanted to bone otacon. Olga is probably the only one, but she also spends most of the game disguised as a man, so sexualizing her would have been a giveaway (that said, who wants to bet that Snake discovered her secret by closely watching Mr. X's ass?). MGS3 we have Eva, who is obviously sexual and the Boss who remained unsexualized until the end where she undid her shirt for no real reason except extremely forced visual symbolism. And then MGS4 went all out with the perviness when Kojima went out of his way to oogle women who are suppose to be traumatized, mentally handicapped women (The B&B corp was the dumbest thing ever), while also putting special attention towards Naomi's undone shirt and Mei Ling's ass. The only female character in MGS4 that wasn't sexualized was Sunny (an 10 year old girl) and perhaps the FROGS (if they even count as characters). Most other women, like Para-Medic, are in the codec window, where it's harder to show them off. And even then, he managed to do it with Rosemary with the tit flipping feature on the PS3 controller. I didn't play Peace Walker or the other MGS games, but there is Paz and I'm sure that she's not the only one.

Sexualization isn't necessarily bad. In some cases, the sexualization can add to the character (In MGS4, Snake perving on Mei Ling's ass despite her being sensibly dressed is a character statement enforcing how decayed he is. Contrast how effortlessly he flirted with her in the opening of the first game and now he's reduced to immaturely peaking at her butt when she drops a pen. It's a shame that Mei Ling's sexualization is a statement on a male character rather than Mei Ling herself, but my point is that it can be used effectively in a narrative space.). And in Eva's case, given her backstory and goals, she can't be anything other than sexual to accomplish her mission. And, to his credit, Kojima also unnecessarily sexualizes men (Liquid not wearing a shirt ever (also in Antarctica), Vamp, the Snakes, and Raiden), not to the same extent, but that he puts in the effort for equal treatment is commendable, I suppose.

But he can't seriously get surprised that people think he's just sexualizing a women for no reason when that's what he's been doing for 15 years. Even if he has given Quiet plenty of narrative justification for it, like he did with Eva, it's ridiculously to take him at his word that this is a matter of artistic integrity rather than exploiting sexuality for an audience given his history or his own perving.

Good post. However I must nitpick, MGS1 is set in Alaska, not Antarctica...

The only way to really solve the female character issue in video games(and other media) is if women get into the high positions and can start calling the shots.

Since that's not going to be happening anytime soon........idk sorry girls, gonna have to deal with the lack of female protagonists. The way secondary characters are presented is much easier to address but even then this is a symptom of a larger cultural issue.

Wait, are you saying men can't come up with decent female characters? Because not only that is false, it's... er, sexist. Against men.

MGS2 would probably be the prime example for me. I can't think of anything particularly objectionable about E.E., Olga, or Fortune.

EE is a damsel in distress, and Fortune wears a swimsuit and is generally kind of lame too. Olga's cool though, always liked her.

 

[The Silver]

Wait, are you saying men can't come up with decent female characters? Because not only that is false, it's... er, sexist. Against men.

I'm saying you aren't going to get a lot female protagonists for the same reason you rarely get them in movies and tv shows. Men are largely the ones in charge and we make what appeals and sells to us most of the time.

My comment about secondary characters was saying that of course men can create good female characters, it's just that the need or incentive to do so is often bogged down by various factors that can be overcome.

 

[Alienous]

EE is a damsel in distress, and Fortune wears a swimsuit and is generally kind of lame too. Olga's cool though, always liked her.

Isn't Raiden a naked damsel in distress at one point in that game? And Fortune is dressed more modestly than Vamp.

So, contextually, neither is really objectionable. Unless, of course, you decide to treat the genders unequally, and ignore the general craziness of Metal Gear Solid.

 

[shinobi602]

There is no coming back from this, Kojima.

You can talk and talk all you want but the image speaks well enough for itself.

Hell yea it does. Hnnng

 

[Bishop89]

People can't wait to be offended at meaningless things, so no, they won't.

Should have been the first post.

 

[Sou]

The reason why she is "quiet" is because when she opens her mouth, it is the voice of a man.

 

[Trike]

Cycle of shame.

Yoshinori Ono to trash erotic Mahjong games; Akihiko Murakami implies that females in third person shooters wear more revealing armor than men.

How will CliffyB respond?