There's a distinction between someone deciding not to see a film, and someone deciding not to see a film and then making a long video about not seeing the film, in advance of reviews/impressions. Most people don't feel the need to announce they're not interested in a movie, or work so hard to justify being close minded.
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Kotaku receives death threats for reporting No Man's Sky delay
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
PositronicMan
Member
He plainly states why he made the video in the opening few minutes. He was getting bombarded by fans (he has over 2 million subscribers) about covering GB3 so he set the record straight. "Most people" either may not have such a large fan base, or not care enough to offer them an explaination to their actions. He decided he owed his fans an explanation.
I also don't see how you think it's "close minded" not to go see a movie. How many movies a year do you skip? Are you being close minded every time you decide not to see something?
What's the point of a trailer? It's a marketing tool to entice people to see the movie. If you can already tell the movie won't be in your tastes, then you're entitled not to go see it. Stop. Period. End. You are under no obligation to spend your money to see anything you don't want to see.
VincentMatts
Member
Wait until they see the review scores for the game.
crisdecuba
Member
The stop, period, end stuff tells me you're mad. Why so salty? It's just someone you don't agree with on the internet...
Well, I guess that's one way to deal with pre-order culture...
Oh man, can you imagine what the holiday release schedule would be like if that was the norm?
"My son wants Halo 7 for Christmas, it's all he and his friends talk about!"
"I'm sorry it's not out yet."
"When is it going to be out?"
"We don't know."
"Well is it at least going to be out by Christmas?"
"I'm sorry, we don't know."
Repeat 30 times per hour.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Don't let these people learn about star citizen
I feel like I can at the very least understand most internet outrage but..
People are mad at AVGN for not watching a movie, people are mad at Kotaku for reporting a game delay...
Kinda getting the feeling that no one looks in the mirror and asks "what is my actual problem with X" rather than just having a gut reaction to everything.
People are mad at AVGN for not watching a movie, people are mad at Kotaku for reporting a game delay...
Kinda getting the feeling that no one looks in the mirror and asks "what is my actual problem with X" rather than just having a gut reaction to everything.
I think the point is that he felt strongly enough to make a statement about it and now a number of other reviewers are taking it up as a banner of sorts. He gives a lot of reasons in his video but given the already existing backlash against the film from the usual suspects, I don't find his reasons convincing. He's under no obligation to see the movie because, as you noted, it's not his job to see it. But him parading around the fact that he's not going to see it as if he's now some guardian of artistic integrity?
Ok dude, sure.
Because it's about ethics in... indistinct mumbling
PositronicMan
Member
At no point did I say anything about him being a "guardian" of anything. I'm simply stating that as a consumer, he is entitled not to spend his money to see something. Regardless of the fact that he's an Internet personality or not, he's still a consumer, first and foremost.
I also have no idea who the list of "usual suspects" are. People are on this forum referring to one specific person, I am addressing the criticism on one specific person.
I just find it a bit hypocritical that, in a thread about a journalist receiving death threats, we're sharing pics and name calling an Internet personality for a valid opinion/ point of view. And you wonder why both continue to persist?
Your repeated attempts to defend him on the basis of his rights as a consumer show that you fundamentally misunderstand why people are annoyed at him in the first place.
He has every right not to see the movie, and, full disclosure, I'm not likely to see the movie either, because I don't think the trailer looks very good. However, I'm not attempting to make any statement about the movie to a wider audience, I'm just not planning to see it.
So, why does anyone care whether or not AVGN reviews the movie? Because prior to his video there had already been a year of backlash against the film because of the decision to cast women in the lead roles. In answer to your earlier question, the "usual suspects" are gamergaters, sad puppies, and every other angry person who makes a pastime of blaming everything they don't like in popular culture and politics on feminists and "SJWs". So when AVGN comes along in this already very hostile environment and says that he's not going to review this remake because of a laundry list of excuses a lot of people don't buy it. They wonder why he had to make a statement at all, and they see a lot of people who were already shitting on the movie for its casting take him up as a figurehead, and they assume that he is making common cause with the Gaters and the Puppies and every other flavor of reactionary that has come seeping out of fandom and geek culture in the last three years. You were asserting that his reasons were valid, and I was saying that I don't necessarily believe that the reasons he states are his actual reasons for refusing to the see the movie and more importantly for making a widely shared and influential video about why he is refusing to see it.
You continue to assert that he, as a consumer, is under no obligation to view the movie. And you're right! Absolutely, but you're also misunderstanding why people are criticizing him in the first place. Hopefully that provides a bit of context, and I'm sorry for being dismissive of you upthread, I assumed you were simply being tone-deaf and I should have given you the benefit of the doubt.
And with that being said, you make a good point about how we are all too ready to accept bullying when we don't like the target. I don't agree that ridicule and disagreement, or even questioning of his motives, rises to the level of death threats such as those that were the original subject of the thread, but we certainly can let ourselves get carried away when we perceive that someone is on the other "side."
PositronicMan
Member
Okay,
I can get some of this criticism.
First, yes people can get carried away, that's why it's important to recognize it before it starts. I presume most of us are adults here. We should be able to articulate why we don't like something/someone in a reasonable manner.
Second, I don't think it's fair to lump James/ AVGN in the same category as The GamerGate camp. You're essentially trying to read between the lines and elucidate a narrative that isn't directly there because it isn't directly stated by James. None of the reasons he offers can equate to the type of sexism we're used to seeing.
I would even go so far to say that he goes above and beyond trying to demonstrate the exact opposite by releasing a video detailing the tumultuous history of the plans of Ghostbusters 3 that never came to fruition for a variety of reasons, none of which involving sexism.
Lastly, I realize that when some of you start typing "it's not about X it's about ethics in something something" it's some sort of gaffer dog whistle to say, "Hey I think we got a gamer gater over here!"
But yeah, that's another problem, people being overly dismissive on here when presented with valid criticism.
I'm not gonna play that game with you, I hope you won't do the same to me in the future.
jim-jam bongs
Member
I still want to hear the story about Evilore and this Devin fellow, I always though devin was a lunch meat.
Quadraphonic
Member
Captain America (Steve Rogers) revealed himself to be a part of Hydra, and the Internet lost its god damn mind.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I keep checking back to see if there was a followup to that Devin callout, and I keep walking away disappointed.
blame space
Banned
100% agree
InsertNameHere
Member
As the great goalie Ilya Bryzgalov once said, "Why you have to be mad? It's just game"
mikefrails
Banned
The hype behind this game is disgustingly bloated.
There's no way they can meet expectations. The pressure must be on.
There's no way they can meet expectations. The pressure must be on.
Icyflamez96
Member
Just saw someone with an NMS tattoo. Can we wait for the game to come out first lol
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
Give $20,000 to a children's charity because of love for your daughter? Doesn't matter. You're a limp-dick loser because you put out a 6 minute video where you say you don't want to see a movie.
That's nice. This James thing has really brought to light who the real bullies are.
That's nice. This James thing has really brought to light who the real bullies are.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
What does Rolfe giving money to charity have to do with the way he handled things? Hell, what does this have to do with No Man's Sky?
You might want to think about this.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
About as much as not wanting to see a movie with an infamously awful trailer has to do with secretly hating women, I'm guessing.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
It has to do with how quickly people are willing to look down on others and sling mud from the top of their tall towers over pretty stupid shit in the grand scheme of things. And yes, this has nothing to do with the topic and I'll leave it at that, but it's annoying and hard to ignore seeing people name call in an ironic twist of some moral crusade for Ghostbusters. Gaf should be better than that.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Whether or not he actually hates women (he doesn't), that didn't stop him from seeing terrible movies. Hell, he saw one with a known Gamergator. It was incredibly wrongheaded on his part.
And that still pales in comparison to the level of vitriol Sean Murray got for delaying a game by a month and Jason Schreier for reporting on it. But you know priorities.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
For the record, erroneous mention of ME3 aside I actually thought it was a decent enough article with a proper point about how toxic fan culture is nowadays. And yes, for as frustrating as I find AVGN's treatment even here after his intentionally placid video response to fan questions about the matter, a (very) debatable size of GB's detractors are sexist MRA/chan troll types.
Doesn't make the author any less of a cunt for those tweets.
For as awful as the death threats are, outside of some GG sites doing their typical rabid snarling at anything Kotaku, I honestly think James has it worse at the moment. There's not going to be any (legitimate) news site claiming Schreier is secretly getting games delayed to 'attack gamers' or similarly out of context nonsense about Sean Murray.
Doesn't make the author any less of a cunt for those tweets.
There's a huge amount of mainstream news articles and even celebrities fixated on shaming James for being a sexist because all the legitimate hate that reboot has gotten is inexplicably being tied to him, and that's stuff we only know is happening publicly.
For as awful as the death threats are, outside of some GG sites doing their typical rabid snarling at anything Kotaku, I honestly think James has it worse at the moment. There's not going to be any (legitimate) news site claiming Schreier is secretly getting games delayed to 'attack gamers' or similarly out of context nonsense about Sean Murray.
Providing history of GB franchise and responding to fan's request.
I don't understand the hate here...
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
He didn't understand the sexist fueled hate from gator ilk this movie was getting and inadvertently invited them in based on their shared dislike for the movie (albeit under different circumstances) and it also helped he's friends with AlphaOmegaSin, a semi-popular youtuber and well known gator. I wouldn't I'm mad at James, just disappointed. This was going to further provide woman-hating idiots with more fuel to justify their hatred of the movie under the guise of the trailer being terrible (and the quality of the trailer has been exaggerated so much anyway). The same breed of people who hate Ghostbusters and are threatening to kill Paul Feig are also the ones threatening to kill Schreier for reporting on a scoop. It's sad.
whoa, mate, what's all this now
Wow, it's a shame that the games getting delayed, but to have death threats over this, really? Trolling or not, theirs a line you just don't cross, and this person did. Due to the lack of errors, emoji's or leet speak, the person is clearly old enough to know better... Anyhow, can't they contact ISPs and get police involved?
ISee
Member
I don't get this part. Why is it a standard part of gaming culture? People standing in the public light have this kind of problem all the time. People are stalking movie stars, threaten book writers and even sports journalists get death threats too.
I don't like this generalization and indicating that this is normal/standard behavior for a group is as exaggerated as claiming that all soccer fans are brutal ruffians and then point fingers at hooligans. This kind of behavior isn't normal for any fan group and people thinking that threatening someone can be made 'in good fun' need to learn the hard way that it's not a good idea int the first place e.g. by law enforcement. But this isn't a problem that is only present in the 'gaming culture' and I feel like a game journalist should know better and not make such statements.
DarkConfidant
Member
Fucking manchildren.
If only we had some sort of counter-gamergate to end this shit.
Maybe it's not possible, and that's just where America (only country I can verify) is heading. Gamergate could be simply the start.
People need to be afraid to try to make others afraid, if that makes sense.
Maybe it's just late, and I should go to sleep.
If any of those devs read this forum, I hope they know that people don't want to let this shit slide and just be the new norm.
If only we had some sort of counter-gamergate to end this shit.
Maybe it's not possible, and that's just where America (only country I can verify) is heading. Gamergate could be simply the start.
People need to be afraid to try to make others afraid, if that makes sense.
Maybe it's just late, and I should go to sleep.
If any of those devs read this forum, I hope they know that people don't want to let this shit slide and just be the new norm.
No, I stand by it. If you make your living watching bad movies and being a film reviewer, it's literally your job to watch the movies and then form an opinion on them. Judging based on purely a trailer and then making a self-congratulatory video on why *this* is the film that broke the camel's back? Honestly I think it's really dumb, and like others have said it makes me wonder 'why this film specifically'?.
Ghostbusters is not some magic untouchable property, and there's every chance the film could be half-decent. When the whole debate is a minefield anyway, making that video is taking a stance which puts him too far on the side of 'wah wah female ghostbusters'. Coupled with the fact that the guy keeps poor company with gamergators, and yeah I think the whole thing is just lame.
Absolutely this. He's not a consumer, he's a 'professional'. And his behaviour surrounding this release was anything but.
Jehuty1989
Neo Member
I think people may be asking the wrong questions about this sort of behaviour. Instead of just shrugging it off and saying trolls will be trolls and it's just a death threat, we should be asking what drives people to care so much for a video that their very life is put into question when there is any negative news about it.
I understand that some will be trolls but there are some individuals who do make such threats with serious intent. They most likely wouldn't do anything because the anonymity the internet can provide allows people to portray any persona they like, good or bad, and get away with it.
I haven't seen the AVGN video about Ghostbusters but I can see why people are talking it. AVGN has a lot of influence. I'm sure most of his fans don't question much of what he says. I can guarantee that plenty of people won't watch the movie simply because he won't watch the movie. I don't know if he realises how much his words are worth but he should've realised that this would happen. Fans of anything are easily swayed by the people at the top. Video game fans tend to allow marketing and personalities to dictate what they like and most do not realise what is happening, they simply go with the flow. Claiming they hate someone or something when there is literally no reason for it. People just need to think a bit more.
I understand that some will be trolls but there are some individuals who do make such threats with serious intent. They most likely wouldn't do anything because the anonymity the internet can provide allows people to portray any persona they like, good or bad, and get away with it.
I haven't seen the AVGN video about Ghostbusters but I can see why people are talking it. AVGN has a lot of influence. I'm sure most of his fans don't question much of what he says. I can guarantee that plenty of people won't watch the movie simply because he won't watch the movie. I don't know if he realises how much his words are worth but he should've realised that this would happen. Fans of anything are easily swayed by the people at the top. Video game fans tend to allow marketing and personalities to dictate what they like and most do not realise what is happening, they simply go with the flow. Claiming they hate someone or something when there is literally no reason for it. People just need to think a bit more.
I don't know which is more embarrasing, the idiotic fans or your post.
The Artisan
Member
even if it's just kids being dumbasses it's not okay to say shit like this.
The Artisan
Member
And what follows is the classic nutt job who only knows violence instead of being rational.
When did James become a professional film reviewer and start reviewing every movie that comes out?
If you don't like his opinion, the way he expressed it, etc. that's fine, you're more than entitled to your opinion, but unless I missed something the AVGN is a comedy game reviewer who occasionally will do a movie review now and then. He isn't a critic and no one would have expected him to review this film aside from the fact people know he's a fan of the series, let's not try to act otherwise.
Anyway as far as the main topic goes, I don't understand the thought process on threatening over a delay, and the threat at the person reporting it makes even less sense to me.
HyperCubed4
Member
I like to believe that's why places like NeoGAF exist.
Introspection and critical thinking are very important in online discourse, however, it's much easier to ejaculate your immediate reaction into a text box without giving it much thought.
Particularly surprising is when someone posts something violent in reaction to news. I don't think many people realize that you can be passionate about something online without being a psychopath.
Count Dookkake
Member
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