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[Yoboman]

That is awesome. Kotaku is not that awesome

 

[WasabiKing]

Crescente is the only one worth reading anyway. The rest like to stir the pot cause they aren't taken seriously. Yellow journalism of the 21st Century.

 

[juicyfruitas]

I am suprised no one is upset what Kojima said about westerners...

well because for the most part its true.

On one side you have guys like CliffyB, Dyack, Jon Romero, American McGee, etc who love attention and generating spotlight time.

On the other end you got guys like Miyamoto, Kojima, Sakaguchi who are definitely way more low key. On the Japanese side, the closest thing they have to a 'bragging' Westerner is Itagaki but then again he's not as revered in him homeland as he is out West so take that FWIW.

There is a grain of truth to this whole difference in cultures and personality thing that kojima is trying to get across.

 

[j-wood]

Some of your guys are still not understanding what he said. Yeah his analogy was very weird, but it did make sense. Let me break it down:

Sony says the PS3 can fly. Kojima thinks, "oh man, the PS3 can fly, we're gunna fly into space!" It turns out though, since this is his first PS3 game, he didn't make it into space, but just made it pretty high in the atmosphere. Therefore, he is disappointed he didn't make it into space, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to get there. Just not this time around.

With that said, after reading this kotaku story, I deleted them from my bookmarks. The journalism over there really does suck. It wasn't just this story, but this was a last straw kinda thing.

 

[HylianScribe]

He thought the PS3 would be able to travel into space at super sonic speeds and it can't.

And I can perform a Bankai.

Sony says the PS3 can fly. Kojima thinks, "oh man, the PS3 can fly, we're gunna fly into space!" It turns out though, since this is his first PS3 game, he didn't make it into space, but just made it pretty high in the atmosphere. Therefore, he is disappointed he didn't make it into space, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to get there. Just not this time around.

Heh, maybe people will understand what you said better.

 

[h3ro]

Crescente is the only one worth reading anyway. The rest like to stir the pot cause they aren't taken seriously. Yellow journalism of the 21st Century.

Yeah, he puts up some funny stuff. McWhertor is good too... the rest seem to just copy and paste from N4G...

 

[Ten-Song]

With that said, after reading this kotaku story, I deleted them from my bookmarks. The blogging over there really does suck. It wasn't just this story, but this was a last straw kinda thing.

Fixed.

 

[HK-47]

Requesting more Slotaku pictures

 

[TONX]

:lol Some of the comments left are pretty funny.

"Wait..so which is better:

Kojima or RRoD? Let us know Kotaku. "

 

[TheHeretic]

well because for the most part its true.

On one side you have guys like CliffyB, Dyack, Jon Romero, American McGee, etc who love attention and generating spotlight time.

On the other end you got guys like Miyamoto, Kojima, Sakaguchi who are definitely way more low key. On the Japanese side, the closest thing they have to a 'bragging' Westerner is Itagaki but then again he's not as revered in him homeland as he is out West so take that FWIW.

There is a grain of truth to this whole difference in cultures and personality thing that kojima is trying to get across.

He describes it in an inferiority-superiority way, ultimately he comes off being high and mighty.

 

[Yoboman]

I almost forgot their posting of MGS4 spoilers in headlines. The site is nothing but bad news

Crescente is the only one worth reading anyway. The rest like to stir the pot cause they aren't taken seriously. Yellow journalism of the 21st Century.

Agreed. Luke Plunkett is the worst of all

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

Because being disappointed in not being able to start the vision you began with (and I mean Kojima's talking 3-4 years ago before he ever got the dev kit here), is not the same as being disappointed in what you're delivering. Kotaku interpreted and sensationalised it as the latter

I'm sure a lot of developers had high visions of CGI graphics and unbelievable hardware before we came into this gen. On both systems.

He said, "And when looking at the specs, the developer claims the car is able to fly."

That obviously implies he saw the PS3's specs and thought it could not only fly but travel into space at supersonic speeds.

You're assuming he didn't see the specs first and he was simply engaging in wild conjecture. That doesn't appear to be the case at all. You're making things up as you go along to run spin for Kojima and Sony.

"Smarter than you"? They obviously haven't been over to SystemWars and seen us spar. Luv ya baby. :lol

 

[Gully State]

I am suprised no one is upset what Kojima said about westerners...

Kotaku should spin that too...

Kojima Proclaims "All Westerners are Douchebags"...

 

[fse]

He describes it in an inferiority-superiority way, ultimately he comes off being high and mighty.

yup, thats kojima.

 

[darkvir]

With that said, after reading this kotaku story, I deleted them from my bookmarks. The journalism over there really does suck. It wasn't just this story, but this was a last straw kinda thing.

Agreed, just deleted from my RSS program. I'll save my rant regarding "journalism" in games for a later time.

 

[godhandiscen]

Kotaku should be banned from GAF. Every now and then their articles show clear bias towards one platform or the other. Two wrongs doesn't make one right. Screw that site.

 

[j-wood]

He describes it in an inferiority-superiority way, ultimately he comes off being high and mighty.

The awesome thing about us American's, is that when someone calls us out for being cocky and not modest, we get defensive and call them names. :lol

 

[fse]

lets ban 1up too!

 

[sprsk]

Kotaku should be banned from GAF. Every now and then their articles show clear bias towards one platform or the other. Two wrongs doesn't make one right. Screw that site.

If bias was grounds for banning, then...

 

[Orlics]

I am suprised no one is upset what Kojima said about westerners...

I am upset with what he said, and I'm not even from the West (born and raised in Asia). True, Western developers may boast about their games more often, but to say that "Westerners do not have a tradition of modesty" is quite harsh and unnecessarily offensive.

When you've made a great game, you have the right to brag. It doesn't mean there is no such thing as modesty in western culture - this is blatantly wrong.

 

[woxel1]

If bias was grounds for banning, then...

How about the willful omission of sources? I swear to god they get the ideas for their stories from reading GAF threads.

 

[alistairw]

If bias was grounds for banning, then...

Then GAF would be a lonely, empty place?

 

[Ten-Song]

How about the willful omission of sources? I swear to god they get the ideas for their stories from reading GAF threads.

If you check what they point to as a source for a LOT of their shit, you'll find that's actually true.

 

[Lord Error]

How did his comment balloon into something so significant anyways? He made the exact same comment about PS2 and MGS2. That he wanted to have these huge army battles in the game, and water dynamics and whatnot, but eventually saw that he couldn't have that. Still didn't mean his game wasn't one of the best looking on the platform when it was released.

I am upset with what he said, and I'm not even from the West (born and raised in Asia).

He sounded kinda pissed off in that whole response TBH. I guess he has right to be too, if he feels his comments were misconstrued in such a way as to actually potentially damage the sales of his game (ZOMG, Kojima doesn't have faith in his own game, so why should I...).

 

[KTallguy]

You're assuming he didn't see the specs first and he was simply engaging in wild conjecture. That doesn't appear to be the case at all. You're making things up as you go along to run spin for Kojima and Sony.

Um, duh. It's common knowledge that the specs that Kojima had when making the first PS3 trailer of MGS4 and the specs of the final PS3 were different.

Stop stirring shit up. Kojima basically says that he wanted to do more than the PS3 could do. But Kojima's ambition is fucking out of this world. He didn't say "the PS3 isn't powerful" or whatever.

People who want to spin this as Kojima "dissing" the PS3... I think they should go back to their "fine Sunday dinners" and their "rich home cooked supper".

I'm all about the "sumptuous feast for special occasions" baby. :lol

 

[Sporty]

Crescente is the only one worth reading anyway. The rest like to stir the pot cause they aren't taken seriously. Yellow journalism of the 21st Century.

I agree. Geoff Knightly's guest week made the rest seem amateur. Crescente seems to be the only one there that knows it's about posting news, not shaping opinion and trying to look cool.

 

[Yoboman]

He said, "And when looking at the specs, the developer claims the car is able to fly."

That obviously implies he saw the PS3's specs and thought it could not only fly but travel into space at supersonic speeds.

You're assuming he didn't see the specs first and he was simply engaging in wild conjecture. That doesn't appear to be the case at all. You're making things up as you go along to run spin for Kojima and Sony.

"Smarter than you"? They obviously haven't been over to SystemWars and seen us spar. Luv ya baby. :lol

Your quote doesn't even make sense. That's part of his analogy for one, and in the context of that quote the "developer" would be Sony, not Kojima. Smarter than you indeed.

 

[HK-47]

Then GAF would be a lonely, empty place?

Portal bias, you gone

 

[godhandiscen]

If bias was grounds for banning, then...

Everybody has a bias, however, as a news source they should remain objective, and thats my beef with them. Their headlines are always sensationalist and FUD spreading most of the time. Different writers attack different consoles, and it would seem that it all evens out, but it just doesn't. The Kotaku articles are always a good source to start a system wars thread, and even though its all fun and games people get tired of it too.

 

[Geek]

geek/Mike McWhertor, I'm sure you're going to be reading this. I used to read the site a lot, but recently, you guys have been really slipping in terms of quality of posts. I really enjoyed the comedy spin you guys put on posts but now its just sensationalizing non-news. Was there really a need for Bashcraft to spin this into Kojima putting his foot in his mouth? Wasn't there the slightest possibility that we all jumped the gun? I say we, because I'm the one that posted the original story here on GAF linking to Kotaku. Then again, I'm not a member of the "gaming press", but Kotaku is. Also lets not forget the slip up yesterday with the MGS4 spoiler (post by Leigh Alexander) that you guys took from some little gaming site based in India. >:[

Well, I wouldn't necessarily agree with the assertion that we're "slipping in terms of quality of posts." I'm not really gonna speak for Ash or his opinion, it's his own. About the spoiler thing, I tried to address that as soon as I saw it, which I believe was credited to Gameguru, as are all posts to the best of one's ability.

I really can't stand Kotaku.

I mean, there are the obnoxious headline choices, and there's the occasional spreading of misinformation about games that don't really need misinformation spread about them. Pretty bad, sure, but it's the icing on the cake.

The worst thing about them is that they lap up the whole "gamer's lifestyle" attitude like nobody else I've seen. Which is probably the most revolting thing ever.

What misinformation? And what's a "gamer's lifestyle" attitude, anyway?

 

[Orlics]

Also, his English isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. It didn't seem like it was run through Babelfish at all. What a pointless attempt at an insult on Kotaku's part.

 

[Lion Heart]

Plus One on the ban

 

[qirex]

Meet the staff

"This game stuff is hard, ima gonna eat some of my own faeces for inspiration."

"God damn Sony, i'll show them"

"WOOOT OFFICE PARTY"

Edit: they are chimps but they are all the same...... delicious.

You forgot

"I am Japan monkey let me tell you about Glorious Nippon and how awesome it is here in JAPAN everything is so SUGOI~ I'm a jerk but it's ok because I'm married. To an Osaka girl.

p.s. Japan"

 

[Geek]

How about the willful omission of sources? I swear to god they get the ideas for their stories from reading GAF threads.

Got an example? It's true that I, in particular, am on GAF pretty frequently, as I have been for the past 3-4 years. However, the majority of my information comes from about 200 RSS subscriptions, 10 or so Google alerts, e-mails, IMs, etc. and these sources get credited. We credit GAF whenever a GAFer is responsible for unearthing something.

 

[methane47]

He said, "And when looking at the specs, the developer claims the car is able to fly."

That obviously implies he saw the PS3's specs and thought it could not only fly but travel into space at supersonic speeds.

You're assuming he didn't see the specs first and he was simply engaging in wild conjecture. That doesn't appear to be the case at all. You're making things up as you go along to run spin for Kojima and Sony.

"Smarter than you"? They obviously haven't been over to SystemWars and seen us spar. Luv ya baby. :lol

Some times specifications dont tell the whole story .... 4 years ago when Kojima saw the specs for the PS3 and saw... X giga flops per second processing... with Y amount of geometry throughput... etc etc... he made some guesses about what he could do... And he overestimated... Sure a ps3 can do X giga flops... But in real world terms flops dont mean much... theoretical polygon throughput doesn't mean much either if you have to factor in reading data off memory or worse, the harddisk...... You can make estimates or guesses when all you have is numbers in front of you ... but it doesn't mean much until you can test in the real world.

 

[squicken]

God. This happens ALL THE TIME is politics/entertainment/sports. Person says something dumb, like bashing a teammate or their co-star or in this case the system they develop for. They take shit for it, and turn around around and say they were misquoted or taken out of context. In all other cases we laugh that off as damage control b/c we know it's bullshit.

Kojima fucked up. He bashed the PS3, and now he's spinning it, only with the added bonus of condescension. Kotaku did nothing wrong here. It's their job to call bullshit when they see it.

 

[godhandiscen]

Some times specifications dont tell the whole story .... 4 years ago when Kojima saw the specs for the PS3 and saw... X giga flops per second processing... with Y amount of geometry throughput... etc etc... he made some guesses about what he could do... And he overestimated... Sure a ps3 can do X giga flops... But in real world terms flops dont mean much... theoretical polygon throughput doesn't mean much either if you have to factor in reading data off memory or worse, the harddisk...... You can make estimates or guesses when all you have is numbers in front of you ... but it doesn't mean much until you can test in the real world.

I wish the Kotaku article had an explanation like this one for the simple troll who never cares to read and right now is creating threads in some random forum about shit he doesn't understand.

God. This happens ALL THE TIME is politics/entertainment/sports. Person says something dumb, like bashing a teammate or their co-star or in this case the system they develop for. They take shit for it, and turn around around and say they were misquoted or taken out of context. In all other cases we laugh that off as damage control b/c we know it's bullshit.

Kojima fucked up. He bashed the PS3, and now he's spinning it, only with the added bonus of condescension. Kotaku did nothing wrong here. It's there job to call bullshit when they see it.

This is also true. Kojima made a mistake and now he is trying to cover it up. However, "Americans Brag, PS3 No Letdown, Kotaku is Wrong" isnt the best title for the article, at least imho.

 

[CrushDance]

The "translation" excuse is valid, and I don't get why Kotaku is using it saying it is PR speak (he's the fricking creator of his work, he can say what he wants - Kotaku !> Kojima when it comes to authority on MGS4). Numerous times fan sites have translated stuff, which is picked up by sites like Kotaku and others, and not fact checked (they say they run their stuff through Google Translator for crying out loud), and they turn out to be inaccurate. Square-Enix is one such company I've spoken with numerous times who wished Western media would learn Japanese themselves and stop relying on fansites for "scanlations". Like when that one site said a scan announced a new title coming, when it was merely a "hypothetical" section of a Famitsu article.

Even the best fansubbers like Dattebayo, who churn on new fansubs weekly for shit like Naruto and Bleach get shit wrong quite frequently, and fans and others have to point out the mistakes. Point is, even the most skilled translators make mistakes. Media here in America gets it wrong sometimes in English like say during an interview (misquotes). I mean, yes, if your source is damn good and trustworthy, it's probably right. But I can't tell you, just from my years as a Zelda webmaster, how many "concrete" interviews in Japanese translated to English contained serious mistranslations, and nearly every outlet was guilty of it.

Good man!

I fail to see anything said in his quote that says PS3 is a disappointment. If anything, he's saying his development team and he as a developer might be a disappointment.

He says that he's not smug, that it's Japanese nature to not be arrogant, that he's a developer, not a PR figurehead, and that you should always under promise, over deliver.

Gremlin enjoys his Sony bashing, don't mind him.

 

[blindrocket]

There was a time when I read Kotaku's RSS feed in my Google page, but I removed them a long time ago. And even now when I read a post on a message board that begins with something like "just read this on Kotaku" I pretty much stop reading right there.

 

[Sporty]

God. This happens ALL THE TIME is politics/entertainment/sports. Person says something dumb, like bashing a teammate or their co-star or in this case the system they develop for. They take shit for it, and turn around around and say they were misquoted or taken out of context. In all other cases we laugh that off as damage control b/c we know it's bullshit.

Kojima fucked up. He bashed the PS3, and now he's spinning it, only with the added bonus of condescension. Kotaku did nothing wrong here. It's there job to call bullshit when they see it.

Your taking this as Kotaku didn't take the first story out of context, and sensationalize it. Which if you read the original Edge interview completely you can see Kotaku took what they wanted, changed the meaning and tried to spin it into something more.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Your taking this as Kotaku didn't take the first story out of context, sensationalize it. Which is you read the original Edge interview completely you see Kotaku took what they wanted, changed the meaning and tried to spin it into something more.

Basically this.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

Um, duh. It's common knowledge that the specs that Kojima had when making the first PS3 trailer of MGS4 and the specs of the final PS3 were different.

Stop stirring shit up. Kojima basically says that he wanted to do more than the PS3 could do. But Kojima's ambition is fucking out of this world. He didn't say "the PS3 isn't powerful" or whatever.

People who want to spin this as Kojima "dissing" the PS3... I think they should go back to their "fine Sunday dinners" and their "rich home cooked supper".

I'm all about the "sumptuous feast for special occasions" baby. :lol

I'm using his exact analogy. He said he saw the specs for the flying car, and based on that he thought it could travel into space at supersonic speeds. Therefore he's saying the PS3 looked more powerful on paper than it was in actuality, and he had to scale back MGS 4 as a result. And it's not like this should come as a suprise to you or anyone else. Remember all the speculation after the PS3's specs were revealed that the PS3 would be significantly more powerful than the 360? Time has shown that the PS3 is somewhat of a paper tiger. Kojima realizes it. Everyone who's objectively compared PS3 and 360 games realizes it. If you can't realize and accept it, it's because you don't want to--and that brings up the usual host of fanboy mental issues.

And I'm shocked that you have a headband and eyepatch av. Shocked.

 

[J-Rzez]

One of the most piss-poor sensationalist sites out there. Much better when they were a banned site here, and Sony should've blackballed them when they had the chance. Hell, they should do it now. I understand any press is good press, but I think they can do without the dribble and nonsense like this.

Please ban this site from here again.

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

Some times specifications dont tell the whole story .... 4 years ago when Kojima saw the specs for the PS3 and saw... X giga flops per second processing... with Y amount of geometry throughput... etc etc... he made some guesses about what he could do... And he overestimated... Sure a ps3 can do X giga flops... But in real world terms flops dont mean much... theoretical polygon throughput doesn't mean much either if you have to factor in reading data off memory or worse, the harddisk...... You can make estimates or guesses when all you have is numbers in front of you ... but it doesn't mean much until you can test in the real world.

They clearly don't and I'm not faulting Kojima for overestimating the PS3's power at all. Most people did when the specs were first revealed. But I'm also saying that Kotaku wasn't off base with their original story. Kojima thought the PS3 was more powerful than it actually is and he had to scale back MGS 4 as he ran into that gap between expected and actual power.

 

[squicken]

Your taking this as Kotaku didn't take the first story out of context, and sensationalize it. Which if you read the original Edge interview completely you can see Kotaku took what they wanted, changed the meaning and tried to spin it into something more.

http://kotaku.com/381412/kojima-disappointed-with-metal-gear-solid-4

ffs they have a scan of the Edge interview. In his own words

"I remember saying three years ago that we wanted to create something revolutionary, but in reality we couldn't really do that because of the CPU. We're using the Cell engine to its limit, actually. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the PS3 machine, it's just that we weren't really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered - we were creating something we couldn't entirely see."

That's not modesty of one's own work. He made a PR faux pas and is spinning.

 

[Ten-Song]

One of the most piss-poor sensationalist sites out there. Much better when they were a banned site here, and Sony should've blackballed them when they had the chance. Hell, they should do it now. I understand any press is good press, but I think they can do without the dribble and nonsense like this.

Please ban this site from here again.

I fail to see how Sony blackballing them would even have an effect on them anyways, considering they just spout shit out second hand and add their own "twist" to it.

 

[kaching]

How did his comment balloon into something so significant anyways? He made the exact same comment about PS2 and MGS2. That he wanted to have these huge army battles in the game, and water dynamics and whatnot, but eventually saw that he couldn't have that.

Hell, his original vision for MGS2 couldn't even be done on this gen's hardware (20000 soldiers?!?). I guess you could twist this into "disappointment" with the hardware he's developing for but NOBODY has provided him with the hardware that lets him deliver his most ambitious visions, so it's totally moot for anything but sensationalism and page hits.

 

[DoomGyver]

+1 for the ban, Kotaku is shit, pure creamy smooth shit.

Remember kids, don't forget to flush.

 

[tfur]

I'm using his exact analogy. He said he saw the specs for the flying car, and based on that he thought it could travel into space at supersonic speeds. Therefore he's saying the PS3 looked more powerful on paper than it was in actuality, and he had to scale back MGS 4 as a result. And it's not like this should come as a suprise to you or anyone else. Remember all the speculation after the PS3's specs were revealed that the PS3 would be significantly more powerful than the 360? Time has shown that the PS3 is somewhat of a paper tiger. Kojima realizes it. Everyone who's objectively compared PS3 and 360 games realizes it. If you can't realize and accept it, it's because you don't want to--and that brings up the usual host of fanboy mental issues.

And I'm shocked that you have a headband and eyepatch av. Shocked.

fyi, this has nothing to do with the 360... but thanks for the fanboy interpretation...

 

[Pachael]

How did his comment balloon into something so significant anyways? He made the exact same comment about PS2 and MGS2. That he wanted to have these huge army battles in the game, and water dynamics and whatnot, but eventually saw that he couldn't have that. Still didn't mean his game wasn't one of the best looking on the platform when it was released.

This sounds right, and yet, we can dream.

PS2 -> ambition -> MGS2 -> ZOE
PS3 -> ambition -> MGS4 -> ZOE3?