rudieboy77
Member
I'd be surprised if the average consumer knows there is a difference in resolution and that is what MS is counting on.
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Kotaku: Why PS4's higher resolution than Xbox One matters
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
So you are saying that PS4 is for people with better eyesight and therefore people with better genes
no just saying genetics especially if you have bad eyes can affect how people see things in games said nothing about any console in particular.
Are they also counting on average consumer not knowing about price difference?
Relax, I was joking dude. Hence "
" at the end...
oneils
Member
The writer said its completely up to you if it matters.
In about 5 years, when more people have 4k displays, even the average consumer will be able to tell the difference between 720p and 4k. Even upscaled 1080p will be noticeably worse on 4k displays.
Metallix87
Member
I doubt that many people will have 4K displays in 5 years. Heck, many people still haven't upgraded to 1080p.
this has to be the dumbest topic doing the rounds still.
if console A can do all console B is doing, at double the rez ... then there is a power GAP.
console A can do more of what console B is doing.
and when you have words like 'double' in that sentence ..regardless of whats visually perceptible , it's something you should be considering.
if one pickup truck can haul a boat up a hill at 80mph, and another can drag two boats up at the same speed .... is the choice that hard to make? even if you can't see the 2nd boat because the first one is in the way of yr line of sight?
if console A can do all console B is doing, at double the rez ... then there is a power GAP.
console A can do more of what console B is doing.
and when you have words like 'double' in that sentence ..regardless of whats visually perceptible , it's something you should be considering.
if one pickup truck can haul a boat up a hill at 80mph, and another can drag two boats up at the same speed .... is the choice that hard to make? even if you can't see the 2nd boat because the first one is in the way of yr line of sight?
To most gamers in Gaf..yeah it does matter but to most gamers snapping up the consoles..the average joe and schmoe will not really notice much in the multiplats, at least. Most of those average gamers already have the contrast, sharpness,etc set to a blazing 100 settings on their TV's as well lol
Especially when Jay has so much more to contribute. It's like sticking up for bad policy at casinos and bad poker dealers. I never ever stuck up for any of that shit. If Mohegan Sun did something better, players knew about it if they asked. No, never got into trouble and they knew I was doing it, wasn't going to lie for Foxwoods.
Yes Jay, Kotaku did some great reporting no doubt. You did some fantastic work yourself. There should have been something on this awhile ago. Darkstation did an article weeks ago, also an opinion piece.
I get that people can be critical, try dealing live poker games. You have to ignore some of the things people say. I've heard things from people planning to hurt someone, to insider trading to being called the N word. Handled them all appropriately.
In many peoples opinions you guys dropped ythe ball on this particular issue. That's all. The article you did on OS problems on next gen consoles is one of the many articles pointing towards quality reporting on Kotaku.
Even though I've posted my share of shit on GAF here and there, I try to not do so as a banning would happen on many subjects if posting my initial idiotic reactions.
You have been told you are a great game journa many times right here on GAF. That doesn't mean everyone is good. Again it's an opinion from many early adopters feel Kotaku dropped the ball. Try to concentrate on the good discussion. You're wasting energy trying to change people. The person you told to F off had a valid opinion.
@Dark 10x
You deserve a standing ovation for the post about display technology. Bravo.
crazygambit
Member
But the games are the same. That's kind of the point.
I think it's good this stuff gets mainstream coverage, otherwise all we'd have is PR like Penello saying that there's no way they'd let Sony get away with a 30%+ power difference because they have the minds behind DirectX or some other bullshit.
I never said they should be commended, I responded to someone asking why it's worthy of discussion. It's a notable difference for there to be a specific article dedicated to highlighting the difference as opposed to largely downplaying it. Thus, discussion-worthy.
This article doesn't need to exist at all.
Higher res is objectively better than lower res. You need an article to tell you that? What next? "Turns out $399 is cheaper than $499 and you can use money to buy stuff, so that $100 difference matters!"
I guess Kotaku sees enough people saying resolution doesn't matter that they feel compelled to step in, but the point being made should be obvious to anyone with a brain. All other things being equal you always want to run a game at the highest res possible - anyone who has ever used any device with a screen should know this. Other shocking video game facts: 32 bit color is better than 8 bit color, and surround sound is better than mono.
Kotaku is an awful blog but this is a really lame reason to trash them.
I don't see how tools would be relevant here. What tools help you get better resolution? A GPU profiler? PIX was a very good GPU profiler, I have trouble imagining that the XB1 equivalent is completely terrible, especially when "reduce overdraw due to alpha" is the solution to half of GPU issues.
Drivers? Maybe...?
It seems to me that there is a lot of evidence that the XB1 is not 10 times more powerful than the 360, not even close.
If you look at that screenshot thread for Wii U, XB1 and PS4, XB1 games often appear closer to Wii U games. Some Wii U games look better than XB1 games, and some XB1 games would look bad even if they were on Wii U. (Lococycle and the in-game of Crimson Dragon to name 2)
There appears to be a significant gap between XB1 and PS4 not explained by the base numbers. I suspect this is because of the amount of stuff the OS is doing and the amount of power being reserved for snap. I mean, the XB1 is supposed to be able to run an entirely separate app in parallel to a game - that's not cheap. Even if you don't have snap running that power is still apparently reserved rather than the game gracefully degrading when snap becomes active. Given that there are 3 OSs at play I suspect there is a lot of context switching going on as well, and context switching is a huge cycle sink.
I think the reality is that the XB1 is a play for games plus apps and the way it is engineered means that a lot of the power isn't going to the game.
Dragon Carr
Neo Member
Resolution is not the reason why people choose to go console rather than pc.
Console power is a reason why people choose one over another.
Not hard to understand.
Beyond GAF and the first 6 million hardcore total sales, so long as in general, the games appear to look close to the other machine when you see one or the other at your friend's house or in a best buy, it comes down to games and services and where your friends are. Xbox appears to average people to be about on par with ps4 graphically, because they really are that close to the average person..
That's it.
Most people never read this shit, compare them side to side, nor buy for the reasons of a few points of notable resolution or performance here and there as noted in this thread.
It only matters to us.
After the first 6 million of total next gen hw sales.... that shit is over.
That's it.
Most people never read this shit, compare them side to side, nor buy for the reasons of a few points of notable resolution or performance here and there as noted in this thread.
It only matters to us.
After the first 6 million of total next gen hw sales.... that shit is over.
fastballspecial
Member
Now this matters AFTER the consoles launch and AFTER everyone bought in one way or another. I guess they had to stay on the fence until they acquired their systems early.
Here's the main problem for me and why Xbox originally became my console of choice for 2 generations.
They strived to be the most powerful. They did everything possible to make sure their console blew everyone else out of the water. They had the best versions of multiplatform games. They provided good dollar value for the hardware (RROD not withstanding).
Now this gen they are measurably inferior. Like obvious inferior graphics on the biggest multiplatform titles. They specifically designed the console NOT to target the best graphics for the money.
It's like everything that made me switch to their brand they flushed down the toilet. And that's not even bringing up the shit policies they attempted to do and the failure to keep up with the competition with indie-friendly policies.
So I don't really care that the average consumer can't tell the difference. I don't really care about those people to be honest. I care about my games and the systems I want to play them on. I care about bang-for-the-buck as well and a design that is catered to gaming.
I have an Apple TV. I have a PS3 as a blu-ray player. I run my bedroom TV off my gaming PC. I didn't want the Xbox brand to become some weak media box with voice control. I wanted the Xbox brand to continue what they started with the OG Xbox and the early years of the 360.
It's obvious all the Xbox brand's life-blood left. A gaming console designed by a committee of suits. It's the camel of the gaming world. It's not fast, it's physically bulky, it's full of software/app bloat, it's expensive, it has all this unnecessary stuff added on, and it attempts to cater to everyone in America without really understanding what really sells to Americans.
They strived to be the most powerful. They did everything possible to make sure their console blew everyone else out of the water. They had the best versions of multiplatform games. They provided good dollar value for the hardware (RROD not withstanding).
Now this gen they are measurably inferior. Like obvious inferior graphics on the biggest multiplatform titles. They specifically designed the console NOT to target the best graphics for the money.
It's like everything that made me switch to their brand they flushed down the toilet. And that's not even bringing up the shit policies they attempted to do and the failure to keep up with the competition with indie-friendly policies.
So I don't really care that the average consumer can't tell the difference. I don't really care about those people to be honest. I care about my games and the systems I want to play them on. I care about bang-for-the-buck as well and a design that is catered to gaming.
I have an Apple TV. I have a PS3 as a blu-ray player. I run my bedroom TV off my gaming PC. I didn't want the Xbox brand to become some weak media box with voice control. I wanted the Xbox brand to continue what they started with the OG Xbox and the early years of the 360.
It's obvious all the Xbox brand's life-blood left. A gaming console designed by a committee of suits. It's the camel of the gaming world. It's not fast, it's physically bulky, it's full of software/app bloat, it's expensive, it has all this unnecessary stuff added on, and it attempts to cater to everyone in America without really understanding what really sells to Americans.
You can't say 1080p doesn't matter (or in a lot of cases, literally could not be seen) and then act like it's the best thing to happen to gaming just because "your" console is capable of it.
The hypocrisy of a lot of Sony fans is far more annoying than the 720p defenders you'll get from the Microsoft/Nintendo crowd. And god forbid you remind them just how mediocre the PS4 hardware is for a 2013 machine.
But it's mediocre only compared to much higher priced PC, non closed platform equivalents. Compared to the Xbox One and Wii U it's super high end. Offering far better performance and more importantly, performance value proposition and bang for buck.
I have a $1500 gaming laptop I bought last year. My laptop can't keep up with the PS4. You can't just make blanket statements of "PC is superior" when the spec variations are so vast.
And then reading each of the "PC performance threads" of each game release and I see SO many people having issues trying to tweak settings, update drivers, do everything to get their games to function.
Right now my "gaming laptop" with i7, 16GB RAM, and 7970M GPU can't even run Saints Row IV at 1080p with locked 30fps on LOW without dips into the 20's. I don't know what it is. Maybe I need to slick the entire thing and reload the OS and start over. Maybe I need to spend $100 for Windows 8.1. Maybe I need to once again drop over $1k on a new rig. Borderlands 2 at 1080p can't stay at 60fps.
It's shit like this though that makes me appreciate the fact that I put in my AC4 disc into a PS4 and I get great resolution graphics and rock solid framerates at high settings with no fuss.
You can compare it to consoles only if you want, but you should have better standards. All 3 consoles are insanely disappointing this time around and we have to deal with it for 5+ years.
The PS4 might be the best choice for graphics on console, but it's still ultimately mediocre and people shouldn't throw a hissy fit when they're reminded of that.
Your opinion about someone else's opinion is just, like, your opinion, man.
Realistically, there is a small wall between the console space and the PC space.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
The PS4 is the best choice for graphics in my house right now.
I could theoretically get a PC that kicks the PS4's ass, but it won't cost me less than £350.
Erm... Maybe on paper and compared to past consoles. But not on a price for performance basis. I mean... 400 dollars isn't much, more so when you factor in inflation.
And look at the kinds of visuals we're already getting out of them. I have a GTX 570 SSC which on paper is more powerful than the GPU in the PS4, but already a launch game on the PS4 looks better than any PC game I've yet played, even the mighty Crysis 3, and that's telling.
CitizenCope
Member
Nice post. HAD been with Xbox from the beginning. I had to move on but it had nothing to to with their shit policies that they backed off on. There's just too much stuff other than gaming that I'm afraid they'll focus on in the long run.
Maybe something wrong. I played SR4 on my 2008 laptop with playable fps. I never measured the fps but it was smooth on med. Friggen thing died so I can't boot it up to see. I got slowdowns while on mindless tank slaughter sprees when blowing up lots of things. That's it. When ever I put the game on high everything was like slow motion but smooth. It wasn't stuttering like I thought it would.
Dell XPS X9000, 4 gigs ddr3 and only one of the 9800m gt sli cards working. The only thing I can think of is sli really is working and Win 7 or Nvid drivers/control panel aren't registering sli.
During the Resolution-Gate a few months back, I think it was explained in some very detailed posts that the main bottleneck preventing the XB1 to achieve 1080p was the small size of the ESRAM.
Just displaying 1920x1080 pixels at a satisfactory rate already filled up almost all of it. Adding to this a bit of IQ like AA, occlusion etc and you are already well over the 32MB limit.
ionicbluebird
Member
Actually the PS4 WOULD be about 10 times the power(or more) if looking at the GPU's alone. This is due to the massive increase in efficiency between gen's.
MR BLACKMAGIK
Member
It doesn't matter if you've already purchased one, and only one system. If you have two, sure. If you don't have either, sure. Otherwise no, it doesn't matter.
In both cases you'd probably still go with the PS4 as it's cheaper.
ionicbluebird
Member
Don't let those negative ned's or nancy's get you down. I and others appreciate your crew's honest opinions.
While resolution it isn't the be-all and end-all, especially given the fact that I will want to own every console for their exclusives, I will take more pixels over less pixels any day of the week and twice on Sundays. For those who only plan on getting one console and will buy lots of multi-plats (of course they will, everyone does) then I could not recommend anything other than the PS4. The fact that it is cheaper to boot is waaaaay too hard to pass on.
I will definitely want both eventually, but you can't fault the PS4 at this stage, and you might not be able to for a long time if ever compared to the competition.
EDIT: I'd like to add that even if they drop the Kinect from the console, you are still ultimately paying the price. They sacrificed powerful hardware to include the Kinect, and now it is much too late to change spec's. It sucks that some gimmick that only casuals enjoyed has corrupted what could have been a much better console. Microsoft kind of funked up IMO. I'll spare the rant, as I know I will want to play Halo, which has not been replicated on PlayStation, just as the XB1 has not been able to replicate Uncharted.
I will definitely want both eventually, but you can't fault the PS4 at this stage, and you might not be able to for a long time if ever compared to the competition.
EDIT: I'd like to add that even if they drop the Kinect from the console, you are still ultimately paying the price. They sacrificed powerful hardware to include the Kinect, and now it is much too late to change spec's. It sucks that some gimmick that only casuals enjoyed has corrupted what could have been a much better console. Microsoft kind of funked up IMO. I'll spare the rant, as I know I will want to play Halo, which has not been replicated on PlayStation, just as the XB1 has not been able to replicate Uncharted.
Your right, were already getting resolution drops in games like bf4. We'll see how it ends up. But all 3 next gen consoles are disappointing (tech wise).
I've been thinking this.
The difference really isn't very noticeable, but there is a difference. The fact that there is one is enough for some consumers.
The market has made it clear that a 599 dollars console is out of reach, for the majority. And you can't expect a company like Sony, which is only recovering from a massive financial crisis, to absorb billions of losses so that a fringe of consumers could feel less ashamed comparing their plateform innards to some specific PC configuration. For 399$, the PS4 is as good as it gets tech wise...
It's a mid range gpu and a low range cpu. It's dissapointing.
Honestly, as a result of the displays in use, the best results should match the resolution of your display. 1280x720 on an actual 1280x720 display will actually look rather sharp and clean, for instance, especially with good AA. We're stuck with fixed pixels for now, but as long as you hit the pixel resolution of your display, image quality will be good enough.
1080p is a perfect sweet spot these days simply because it is the most common resolution. It wouldn't make sense to optimize a console game for 1440p or higher support as few people will couple their consoles with such a display.
Resolution matters so much these days simply due to the fact that non-native resolutions tend to look quite a bit worse on fixed pixel displays.
Seriously, go check out something like Crysis 3 running on a CRT monitor at a resolution lower than 1080p. It will look cleaner and more attractive than what you could get on a higher resolution fixed pixel display. This focus on resolution is just a symptom of our broken display industry.
People who can't see a difference, and claim it's not a very important topic, have not tried playing multiplayer games on a large TV. Of course, what game it is matters.
I think sites like Kotaku dares to speak out on the issue since it got publicly known that Lego are pursuing a lawsuit of Microsoft for trying to turn all games into Lego graphics.
I think sites like Kotaku dares to speak out on the issue since it got publicly known that Lego are pursuing a lawsuit of Microsoft for trying to turn all games into Lego graphics.
You just don't get it...
SneakyStephan
Banned
When Sony gets a cut of every single game sold on the platform (which is their entire reason for making the box to begin with, the box is a means to that end) and when you as consumer are also paying to play online on it, the very LEAST they could have done is offer a subsidised box.
Even my cable company has the decency to give me a free DVR (and replace it for free when it broke 3 years after I got it) while they're fucking me with their subscription they're selling me.
But they don't even do that this time, that is how for granted the console companies take their audience now.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
1080p is just so much better. Playing AC4 today and the clarity of the image was just blowing my mind.
There's a big difference between seeing a difference and seeing a significant, noticable, worthwhile about worrying difference.
This is especially notable based on screen size, television quality, distance from television, actually in movement rather than nitpicking screenshots and finally, most importantly - the quality and immersion of the game and gameplay, sometimes people are busy focusing on other stuff.
Brad Grenz
Member
It's obvious there was a lot of selective emphasis being given to different aspects. While the Xbox One's TV features are being talked up to the degree that you'd wonder if these writers think buying a PS4 makes your cable stop working, we have a bunch of the same people actively trying to convince us that resolutions don't matter (using bad science, to boot). There are differences between the systems. Just tell us what they are and stop trying to tell other people what is important to them. If the Xbox One's media features are so compelling it shouldn't need to have the resolution disparity downplayed.
ionicbluebird
Member
I agree.. MS has been toying with the idea of forward compatibility the last couple years.., I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few lines of code in every X1 game that would enable a higher resolution and/or framerate for when the next iteration of hardware comes along.
This will of course piss a LOT of people off.
ionicbluebird
Member
This is wrong because the PS4 will allways be cheaper and the fact that it's more powerful and displays this fact in multiconsole games WILL trickle down to the mainstream audience looking to buy one of the two consoles. The casual and middle class (those between hardcore and casual) gamers are not as ill-informed as you think... Esspecialy the middle class gamers (who make up roughly the first 30-40 million in sales).
I don't get it. The whole "Resolutiongate" thing was that the gaming press ignored or downplayed the resolution difference. Now a website addresses the issue, and they are clickbaiting???
I feel like I'm missing something here. The gaming press is not for GAF eyes only. Some people in this thread treat the gaming press like its their own personal newspaper, and when they sick tired of a topic, or aware of it already they dismiss it. You know, this article is extremely important to educate people who may not be aware of the difference before the purchase. Part of the job of journalism is to inform, and that's what they did here. I don't get the hate.
I feel like I'm missing something here. The gaming press is not for GAF eyes only. Some people in this thread treat the gaming press like its their own personal newspaper, and when they sick tired of a topic, or aware of it already they dismiss it. You know, this article is extremely important to educate people who may not be aware of the difference before the purchase. Part of the job of journalism is to inform, and that's what they did here. I don't get the hate.
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