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(Lack of) General Consensus: Best JRPG battle system ever?

Lynx_7 said:
I think it shows how important enemy balance is. Pokemon's battle system is pretty good but you would never notice it unless you mess around the multiplayer. The single player campaigns are so braindead easy you barely even need to take advantage of type advantage, let alone advanced strategies.

It's the same problem many FF titles have. Interesting systems in place, terrible balance that makes it so you can steamroll through everything by just spamming attack or Fire/a/aga and Cure/a/aga on boss fights.
This is also where Atlus usually succeeds on their games, though it sometimes depends on which difficulty you choose.
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It still is a kid's game so the difficult is fair. Of course I would love a hard mode.
About Atlus, indeed it is true. They are so good at it that can make ok battle systems like the Persona series much better to play. I would love if GF and Atlus partenered and made a Pokemon game.
 
I'm still a big fan of Super Mario RPG. There's games since that have done things better, but it's my favorite battle system I can think of.
 
I do love FF XII battle system as well, other recommendations:

Persona 5(with the right social links)
Xenoblade Chronicles
Ni No Kuni
Resonance of Fate
Chrono Trigger
Bravely Default
Tales of Graces f(remember...we're talking about battle systems)
Tales of Berseria
Grandia
 
Grandia, especially 2 and 3.

Not sure if this counts, but I want to mention FFXI. One of the most creative games I've ever played when it comes to gameplay.
 
I really liked the Xenogears battle system a lot. Also Gambits from FFXII and Shadow Hearts' ring system.

FFXIII battle system wouldn't be AS awful if the stagger mechanic was ditched or changed. As it was, the only "playing" you did for ffxiii was switching paradigms from commando to ravager, with some healing in between, which for me was really boring.
 
Pokémon and FFXII win it for myself. I have intense disdain for the ATB, it's the whole pseudo-turn shit that drives me up a wall. Gambit system circumvents that by giving your characters auto-commands that you set up, but also allowing you to, at any moment, assume direct control over their actions. Amazing flexibility there.
Pokémon is a tried and true turn based game with a good number of things to keep in account (hold items, abilities) and the limited move set per Pokémon makes you strategize about party composition and is always fun.
 
Final Fantasy XII's Gambit system had the most potential. I feel like FFXIII would have worked out soooo much better if it was an evolution of that system combined with paradigms, instead of another closed system with all the past innovations removed. Instead they removed party member switching, removed bringing members in-out of battle from FFX and FFXII, and forced game over on leader death....it was really, really stupid.

Final Fantasy X-2 was the absolute best rendition of the ATB system
 
For me, personally, it's impossible to separate the core battle mechanics from the encounter design and difficulty, which is where a wast majority of JRPGs fail. Pokemon, for instance, might have an amazing system for multiplayer battles, but when every singleplayer fight can easily be won by using one ability over and over again, none of the things that make the game popular in multiplayer are ever given a chance to actually present themselves to the player. The same can be said for many other JRPGs. I never understood why people say Final Fantasy X is great, for example, when most normal fights in the 10 or so hours I've played it could be won with just normal attacks.

Some games I personally feel do it right would be:

Turn Based: Trails in the Sky trilogy
A pretty standard turn based JRPG system with an addition of light positioning and the ability to manipulate the turn order. Probably the best "traditional" JRPG combat system, since the games (particularly the last one in the trilogy) are great at providing varied combat scenarios that force you to actually experiment with different team compositions. While the second game can feel very unbalanced at times, I was actually incredibly surprised at the the final game in the trilogy (the 3rd), where increasing the difficulty not only ups the enemy stats, but also changes combat encounters with different enemies/abilities. It's a shame the same can't be said for the Cold Steel games, which are incredibly easy even on their hardest difficulty setting.

Strategy RPG: Growlanser IV
This is probably the best example of how good mission design can vastly improve the game. The mechanics of the combat system are pretty simple, since you'll mostly be using just two commands (move and attack). But the missions elevate the game's combat to probably my favorite combat system in any SRPG. Most missions will give you an objective that is different from just killing everything, or will put some special twist you have to be aware of. Some missions also feature difficult bonus objectives that sometimes change the outcome of the story. In addition, the game is hard enough that positioning of your units is incredibly important, and most missions are designed in a way that will force you to figure out how to optimally split your forces. The same team later went on to make the SMT: Devil Survivor games, which are also incredible SRPGs, even if they lack a bit in terms of mission variety.

Action RPG: Ys series, in particular Ys Origin

Unconventional Combat Systems:
I really love it when a JRPG tries something different and original with its combat system. Some of the games that I enjoyed that did that would be:

Baten Kaitos Origins

Knights in the Nightmare, a real time strategy bullet hell RPG, where the player character is essentially a cursor that needs to dodge enemy attacks while at the same time issue orders to the units under your control.

The World Ends With You
I really liked the whole controlling two characters at the same time thing. The game also lets you customize the difficulty, and even delevel yourself if you find the game to easy, which is something I wish more JRPGs would include, since most of them are much too easy.
 
Svejk said:
Grandia (I & II).

So simple, yet deep and really fun to watch go down. Practically the ONLY JRPG where I look forward to getting into enemy encounters.

HA! My man. Glad to see so much love for Grandia. Playing through Grandia II on my phone now... Never got to finish it back in the DC days. =(
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Duuuuuuude! How are you playing it on your phone? I never got to play Grandia II or III. Please don't tell me it's android only?
 
The Suikoden series, in particular the first and second entries, have a quite enjoyable and fast paced combat system with more depth than it looks like.
 
From a pure gameplay perspective (not magic/item system) Grandia and Grandia 2 are easily my favorite battle systems. Grandia 2 is a little more polished but Grandia laid all the ground work. Being able to break up attacks just as they’re about to land and having to position yourself on the battlefield made even grinding battles a lot of fun.

For the original Grandia, wasn’t a huge fan of the magic system (power based on how much you used the spells) since I’m a bit of a hoarder in RPG’s and hate using up MP on inconsequential grinding fights, but there were enough save points (replenished MP) to make it so that I’d use the magic enough to get some nice high level spells. Also wasn’t crazy about the gear system since it was so simplistic but I’m spoiled by more modern games in that respect.

Second I’d have to say was FFV. It was a standard turn based system but the whole job system and AP grinding really grabbed me and I spent dozens of hours just straight grinding in that game trying to build the perfect end squad. I absolutely destroyed the final bosses because I was so OP but I had a great time getting to that point.

FFXII was also a fantastic battle system for me but it was more because I was weaning myself off of WoW and the ease of grinding felt very similar. After playing WoW WAY too hard for a couple of years, I played FFXII over a summer and it was a nice substitute to scratch the grinding itch w/out taking over my life.
 
Lynx_7 said:
I think it shows how important enemy balance is. Pokemon's battle system is pretty good but you would never notice it unless you mess around the multiplayer. The single player campaigns are so braindead easy you barely even need to take advantage of type advantage, let alone advanced strategies.

It's the same problem many FF titles have. Interesting systems in place, terrible balance that makes it so you can steamroll through everything by just spamming attack or Fire/a/aga and Cure/a/aga on boss fights.
This is also where Atlus usually succeeds on their games, though it sometimes depends on which difficulty you choose.
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This is it, right here.

What you do as a player is only half the system. The other half is interesting encounters that stretch that system to its maximum and give you a ton of interesting, important decisions to make.

It's why I said Etrian Odyssey - because the encounter designs of almost all fights challenges you (at least the first couple of times you fight a mob).

As for Atlus, maybe their games are better balanced on hard because I tend to play on normal and find 90% of the encounters trivial.
 
FFXIII easily

It was a shame rather than adding more jobs and making enemies more unique/difficult to beat XIII-2 turned the battle system into a boring one!

Then FFX. Changing party members is ace
 
Funyarinpa said:
Only played Persona, SMT and FFX, but my vote is still for Persona 5. Absolute perfection
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In P5 you can get a game over with a flukey OHKO attack on MC, and when an enemy doesn't have a weakness it's boring as fuck. It certainly can make a turn-based battle look flashy as hell, but perfection it ain't.

Grandia III is really the highlight of turn-based (assuming that's what we mean by JRPG) for me but FFXII sure runs it close, and there were times I never thought anything would get near what Grandia does.
 
Innolis said:
Turn Based: The Grandia games

Action: Souls games.
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I still think no one would ever consider the Souls games as "JRPG".

They are japanese action games. Action-RPGs, I'd say.

JRPG, along the years, became a definition for a specific genre.
 
Exentryk said:
Bravely Default's system. Being able to take 16 (!) actions in a single turn just opens up sooo many combos, it's insane. And the best thing about it is there are meaningful interactions within those actions. Amazing depth!

Gambits are also up there for me.
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Well said :D. Not just that but the intersection between the Brave/Default system and the Job system gives you a very large amount of flexibility.
 
Definitely Bravely Default / Second for me.

Other people in this thread have covered the reasons why. The ability to take multiple actions in a turn combined with the highly customizable class system is awesome. It really encourages you to exercise your creativity and come up with insane combos.

By the end of the games, it's possible to come up with super broken strategies that make you invincible. But the game encourages you to do this, because the final / extra bosses are so hard you pretty much have to break the game in order to win. I love that.

Speaking of difficulty, these are definitely games you should play on hard mode. That's where the battle system really shines. On easy mode you can take more brute force approaches. But on hard mode you really to have learn and take advantage of the battle system.
 
Griss said:
This is it, right here.

What you do as a player is only half the system. The other half is interesting encounters that stretch that system to its maximum and give you a ton of interesting, important decisions to make.

It's why I said Etrian Odyssey - because the encounter designs of almost all fights challenges you (at least the first couple of times you fight a mob).

As for Atlus, maybe their games are better balanced on hard because I tend to play on normal and find 90% of the encounters trivial.
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Etrian Odyssey is Atlus too! Haha
I find modern Megaten games to be usually better balanced on higher difficulties, yeah, with perhaps Nocturne as an exception (Devil Survivor 1's default difficulty is also pretty good but SRPGs are their own thing). Otherwise battles are over too fast and enemies usually don't hit hard enough to force you to optimize your decisions. It depends on the game too. SMT IV, for example, is just overall poorly balanced, Smirk is a mess and no difficulty modes are going to fix that.

And yeah, poor enemy balance is something that frustrates me on Turn Based battle systems. Like you said, there's no point in exploring the systems you're given in depth if the game doesn't incentivize you to do so. Bonus points if the game integrates inventory management, HP/SP conservation and well placed save points. The synergy between every single aspect of these games can be the difference between dungeons feeling like a slog or engrossing challenges that keep you on your feet as you're nearing the end and need to take everything you do into account.
 
Action:
KH2 Final Mix
FFXIII-3 (literally the only thing this game got right)
Tales of Graces F

Turn-Based:
Bravely Default/Second
Persona 5
The Last Remnant
Mario & Luigi series
Final Fantasy 12

Experimental:
Resonance of Fate
The World Ends With You
 
Dragon's Dogma is my favorite combat system in a JRPG, but it's not JRPG style combat at all. It's DMC-lite.

My favorites that still feel like something I'd call "JRPG combat" would be:

Chrono Trigger
I like the active time battle system but I also love that you can kinda level team configurations and characters can learn team attacks. WRPGs have a lot of combo systems where maybe if you freeze someone, a warrior can shatter them, but I like the explicit nature of Chrono Trigger where it's not two unique attacks that combo, it's like a specialty attack that can only be done with this configuration of characters and you have to unlock it by leveling.

I wish more games had both of those.

Final Fantasy XIII
I really love this one. I thought I wouldn't like not having total minute control but ultimately it didn't care. The AI seemed smart enough to do what I would have done and to me the game was really like there's a hidden 4th member of the team that you're actually playing as: the coach. You have a squad of experts who have no pride and will play their role perfectly, you just have to make sure you put them in roles that make sense for the situation. I had a lot of fun with it.

It's unfortunate that you don't really need it for most battles due to game difficulty on top of them mandating your team composition for most for the game, when you can pick who you want and the battles are a challenge, I had a ton of fun.

And it looks cool.

LordKasual said:
haha wow...that's interesting lol

Don't think i've ever heard that perspective before.
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What did it improve as far as the combat goes? I played both and the primary change was that now you can only have a 2 person party rather than a 3 person party.
 
I know diffirent tastes and all but i find it really weird seeing people here making Persona 5 and FFXIII "the best". Both sure are fun to play but they lack any kind of depth. There is no room for forming many strategies, in 5 you need to hit the shadow's weak point and then follow it with an all-out-attack. The same goes with 13 and stagger system.
 
I never understood people who thought FF 13 had a great battle system. It was one of the most boring I ever played. But the character growth doesn't help.

Funyarinpa said:
Only played Persona, SMT and FFX, but my vote is still for Persona 5. Absolute perfection
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Persona is far from having the best battle system.
Except if we decide that it's supposed to be extremely simple and repetitive.
The fact that every games almost get the same variant says a lot about it too.
Too many attack have the same animation and the balance is almost always similar.

On the other hand the Grandia series was sitting on gold. The mix of timing and space is pretty interesting.
It's special but I thought Chrono Cross had a pretty nice battle system, could be polished and get some more depth maybe.
Xenoblade had some interesting mechanics, with Meria for example, I hope the next game(s) improve the whole thing. X is too different, not geared well towards basic party battle.
The trails series got a good evolution until Blue, but the cold steel games are getting easier and easier which removes this wonderful challenge from the previous titles.
Zero and Blue were amazing (with Blue only have a problem when it comes to level up Master Quartz).

When it comes to action I think of Star Ocean 3 and Tales of Destiny R (PS2). And it's not really action but I think it's worth mentionning the amazing battle system of Valkyrie Profile Silmeria.
Edit : I guess tri-Ace was the master of that until Labyrinth no Kanata which has their last excellent (and original) battle system. Sad.

In the FF series I'd say X, especially thanks to the sphere grid, could be interesting to see the same system mixed with classic ATB instead of turns. Just curious.
 
I really liked how fast and efficient Suikoden II's was. Battles went by pretty quickly which made grinding effortless.

Always really wanted to play Grandia since I've heard it's similar.
 
I can't agree with Xenoblade, it's too simple ultimately and unbalanced through its topple mechanics which in mid game are trivial to time. Being able to Start off with such a strong move 90% of battles, regardless of how enemies are set up is silly. I must give it props for having some decent scenarios that were enjoyable though I'm much looking forward to the sequel and how it refines the issues of the core combat system.

Excluding SRPGs (which if they were included, my picks would be Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 and Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest for their drive for perfectionism, minimal grinding, huge mission variety with unique mechanics and enemy set ups in nearly every level and incredibly high difficulty), my pick would probably be Baten Kaitos Origins. High speed (for Origins at least) with enough thought in putting the execution into play with combos and reacting to the enemy's moves while retaining a reasonable room for experimentation and set ups.

Other good combat systems would include Trails in the Sky SC which has enough unique scenario variety to keep it engaging and positioning to add some strategic depth.
 
labx said:
Ni No kuni and Persona 5 for me.
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Wow... I mean, Ni no Kuni ? The PS3 game ? It is known for its terrible battles.
Well, that doesn't mean you can't like of course, but it really can't be one of the best systems. And that is, without talking about the AI.
Wen you see the second one you also understand they where wrong about giving orders while being in real time.

higemaru said:
I really liked how fast and efficient Suikoden II's was. Battles went by pretty quickly which made grinding effortless.

Always really wanted to play Grandia since I've heard it's similar.
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I don't see the relation between both systems...
In grandia members and enemies are waiting more or less, depending on their speed, all on the same "gauge".
They reach a point when they can chose their action, then have a waiting time until the action is done.
Depending on the type, the wait is more or less long.
You can select spots on the battlefield to move and characters also move towards the enemy when attacking.
It's possible to attack from affar but also cancel the enemies move with specific attacks, either the "strong attack" you can use anytime, or a specific skill.
Since you can move around, the position can be important for AoE attacks a little like Chrono Trigger, but better.
 
Star Ocean: The Last Hope. Blindsiding and Rushing enemies never got old for me, and I platinum'd the game on PS3. That's 500 hours with a lot of combat...and I would still play now just for the battle system.
 
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