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Largest Leap Graphics in a Single Generation

I'm not sure about the other titles, but I know the bolded ones probably haven't been said because they don't qualify.

Skipped the OP, I assume?

Pretty sure none of them qualify. Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando is the second ratchet title, and I am pretty sure TH: Underground came before American Wasteland, Warrior Within before PoP: Two Thrones.

I am not 100% on Pokemon, but still pretty sure there was something between Diamond/Pearl and Black/White
 

NBtoaster

Member

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Nothing that stands out.

When I play the game, there is nothing that stands out to me and says "man they had to sacrifice this and that in order to get area looking this good."

All I see is "Holy shit this looks better than any 360 game I've ever seen."

Really? It immediately stood out to me that the levels were more linear, that the encounters were less organic, and that the enemy numbers were smaller.


Oblivion to Skyrim is a pretty big jump.

Agreed. The character modeling in particular was a big jump.
 

sp3000

Member
Nothing that stands out.

When I play the game, there is nothing that stands out to me and says "man they had to sacrifice this and that in order to get area looking this good."

All I see is "Holy shit this looks better than any 360 game I've ever seen."

Particle effects were pretty vastly downgraded and encounters in general were not as massive as Halo 3

Levels were also a lot more linear
 

KageMaru

Member
Particle effects were pretty vastly downgraded and encounters in general were not as massive as Halo 3

Levels were also a lot more linear

IMO how linear the levels are is up for debate. All halo games have their share of linear progression, especially 2. Halo 4 still has some big battle moments, but perhaps not as many as in Reach. I've only finished halo 4 twice, while I've finished Reach plenty more.

You're wrong about the particles though.
 

i-Lo

Member
Really? It immediately stood out to me that the levels were more linear, that the encounters were less organic, and that the enemy numbers were smaller.




Agreed. The character modeling in particular was a big jump.

Yea, compared to its predecessors, some sections were more linear and some vastly so. However, there were quite a few trademark big battle moments. Another sacrifice came in the form of 2D horizons. Granted that Reach also used them for skyboxes (iirc) but Halo 4 goes one up over them. Still, there is only so much power in the box and I wonder if 343's decision to take a more linear approach was because of the system limits and they had their eyes on upgrading the graphics engine or whether it was a side effect of their decision to stand apart from Bungie's design philosophy?
 

sp3000

Member
IMO how linear the levels are is up for debate. All halo games have their share of linear progression, especially 2. Halo 4 still has some big battle moments, but perhaps not as many as in Reach. I've only finished halo 4 twice, while I've finished Reach plenty more.

You're wrong about the particles though.

How am I wrong, since everything I have seen shows that effects were downgraded

The explosions have far fewer particles, and just firing the wraith shot has a really gimped effect in comparison to Reach
 

nOoblet16

Member
In no imaginable way was HDR reduced lol. The HDR in HALO 4 is superior to Reachs'. Reach barely had any noticable HDR going on. And going from Reachs' 1152x720 to HALO 4's 1280x720p with custom FXAA is a big update and improvement with 100,200 pixels more on screen.
Again, it's a trivial increase.
It honestly makes for a very tiny improvement in overall crispness. I'll say this again 720p is no magic number if you find 1152*720 to be blurry then there is no way that you'll find 720p to be pristine and crisp. If you do then you are only lying to yourself. HDR is suppose to be subtle not noticeable, if it's noticeable and in your face then it's being done wrong. The TAA in Reach was an issue but the resolution was never a problem to begin with.

As for polys it is noticeably increased. Just look at the warthog, spartans, marines, etc. Not only that but I dont need to post pics of the environments both inside and out of how they are way more complex in geometry than anything in Reach. Just look at that new map Wreckage and post one pic of Reach that looks anything close to that.
At first look it looks increased but it's about the same, a professional modeler could simply look at it and tell that. Different approach to polygon budgeting makes the difference here.


Again HALO 4 HDR is superior to Reach's. HALO 4 still uses deffered lighting as it is how it still employs dynamic lights for all plasma shots and more than Reach. Jackal sheilds cast light that was not in Reach. All Promethean weapons cast light on any surface they get near with while you hold them and the Promethean Knights cast light on themselves and anything around them from their glowing body parts. Also Reach had no dynamic shadows while HALO 4 uses them.
Not true, Yes it is deferred but the very first thing I noticed in Halo 4 was the overall reduced number of dynamic lights, it's still a lot but not as much as Reach.
It gives you the illusion of having tons of lights by using glows but they aren't actual lights. The plasma shots and weapons are some of the more noticeable equipment so ofcourse they will be dynamic lights. Also the radius and intensity of light cause from all light sources including explosions are vastly reduced compared to Reach. It's mentioned in the Digitalfoundry article as well.


Post processing is still better in HALO 4. Yea Reach had HBAO and motion blur, but those things degraded the image quailty thus they were disabled. FXAA is a post processing that is gained from dropping those features and the right choice as Reach was one jaggy, blurry, grainy mess.
AO and motion blur degraded the image quality ? This makes no sense.


EDIT: Seems like they use a different approach for Alpha where they layer one on top of other with the top most being full res.
 

Reiko

Banned
Again, it's a trivial increase.
It honestly makes for a very tiny improvement in overall crispness. I'll say this again 720p is no magic number if you find 1152*720 to be blurry then there is no way that you'll find 720p to be pristine and crisp. If you do then you are only lying to yourself.


At first look it looks increased but it's about the same, a professional modeler could simply look at it and tell that. Budgeting is different ofcourse.



Not true, the very first thing I noticed in Halo 4 was the reduced number of dynamic lights.
It gives you the illusion of having tons of lights by using glows but they aren't actual lights. The plasma shots and weapons are some of the more noticeable equipment so ofcourse they will be dynamic lights. Also the radius and intensity of light cause from all light sources including explosions are vastly reduced compared to Reach. It's mentioned in the Digitalfoundry article as well.



AO and motion blur degraded the image quality ? This makes no sense.



I do not need to clarify myself, you need to do some research here.
Halo reach uses full resolution alpha particles, Halo 4 doesn't...it's very obvious to see when you play the game so if you think otherwise then the burden of proof is upon you my friend.

I think the film grain, plus the TAA ghosting destroyed the IQ. The motion blur was cool actually.
 

KageMaru

Member
How am I wrong, since everything I have seen shows that effects were downgraded

The explosions have far fewer particles, and just firing the wraith shot has a really gimped effect in comparison to Reach

Just because some alpha effects were reduced, that doesn't mean the game renders fewer particles on the screen.

I think the film grain, plus the TAA ghosting destroyed the IQ. The motion blur was cool actually.

Film grain was barely noticeable IMO. The TAA was ugly at times though, especially during some cut-scenes.
 

Green Yoshi

Member
SSX Tricky -> SSX 3
Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow -> Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
DIRT -> DIRT 2
Call of Duty 3 - Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
Red Steel -> Red Steel 2
Oblivion -> Skyrim
TimeSplitters -> TimeSplitters 2
 
tmnt1and2.jpeg


Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (NES, on left) versus Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game (NES, on right).


It's not as staggering a difference as others shown in this thread, but there's often a lot more going on, much larger and more detailed sprites (you can make out facial features, for one thing!), and the switch to 2.5d graphics feels a little more nextgenny.
 

Reiko

Banned
tmnt1and2.jpeg


Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (NES, on left) versus Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game (NES, on right).


It's not as staggering a difference as others shown in this thread, but there's often a lot more going on, much larger and more detailed sprites (you can make out facial features, for one thing!), and the switch to 2.5d graphics feels a little more nextgenny.

If I only didn't play the actual arcade version first before playing the NES version. I never found it impressive. Maybe TMNT3 since it was all made up.
 

KageMaru

Member
are the people saying Halo 3/ODST -> Halo 4 pretending that Reach doesn't exist?

Yeah it's been happening throughout this thread for many games. People jumping sequels as an example of a jump in graphics. Not sure if that's what the OP was asking about, but it doesn't make any sense to me.
 
They weren't consecutive, but Super Mario Sunshine to New Super Mario Brothers U was a pretty massive leap for being in the same generation and basically being the exact same game.
 
PS1 era

NFL Gameday 97 to 98, they went from sprites to polygons.

EA, said it couldn't be done and 989 studios shitted on them.
198150_50391_back.jpg


NFL Gameday 97
nfl_gameday_'97.jpg



NFL Gameday 98
images
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Turok -> Turok 2 is one of the best examples in this thread. Turok 2 was pushing the N64 well and truly to (and probably beyond) its limits. Iguana went all out with everything from geometric detail and texture variety/quality, to the little details in effects, dynamics, and interaction. The two are night and day.
 

JNT

Member
Turok -> Turok 2 is one of the best examples in this thread. Turok 2 was pushing the N64 well and truly to (and probably beyond) its limits. Iguana went all out with everything from geometric detail and texture variety/quality, to the little details in effects, dynamics, and interaction. The two are night and day.

Yes! Nice catch.
 
Really? It immediately stood out to me that the levels were more linear, that the encounters were less organic, and that the enemy numbers were smaller.

Hmm, not really...there were some pretty large and open levels in H4. Not sure what you mean by organic encounters, but they felt very dynamic and the AI was just as menacing and impressive, maybe even more so.
 
NFS most wanted > NFS hot pursuit > Burnout Paradise

The improvement in global lighting Criterion has made on current
hardware is mighty impressive. The cars really feel implanted in the world.
 

Zornica

Banned
Turok -> Turok 2 is one of the best examples in this thread. Turok 2 was pushing the N64 well and truly to (and probably beyond) its limits. Iguana went all out with everything from geometric detail and texture variety/quality, to the little details in effects, dynamics, and interaction. The two are night and day.

Back then, I played the 2nd one first (which is, until today, one of my favorite shooters ever). I really loved it and decided to pick up the 1st one because at that time, I had no idea how that looked/played. I put it in my n64, turned it on and at first I thought they had sold me the wrong cartridge or some strange alpha version. I sat there staring at the label on the cartridge for several minutes to make sure I got the right game. I even invited a friend over who owned the game so he could bring his cartridge too. I never finished it.

regarding the 3rd one: that was kinda disapointing too. I am not sure if they pushed the tech even further, but I don't think so. All I can remember is that it had more voice acting, more cinematics, the levels were way more linear, way darker and those bastards killed joshua in the first 5 minutes. I'll never forgive them for that.
 

tygertrip

Member
Yeah. You're totally missing the point.

And when talking about big breasts, you certainly don't know who I am.

LMAO. You actually thought I was serious if you honestly think I didn't see your point. Ok, my apologies, I didn't really mean it when I said they were horrible pics to prove your point. My hats off to you, I've loooved video games for 33 or 34 years, but you take them way, way, way more seriously than anyone I've ever met in my life. And BTW, I never mentioned breasts, ass and leg man here. So you obviously don't know me, lol. The internet never changes.
 

Reiko

Banned
LMAO. You actually thought I was serious if you honestly think I didn't see your point. Ok, my apologies, I didn't really mean it when I said they were horrible pics to prove your point. My hats off to you, I've loooved video games for 33 or 34 years, but you take them way, way, way more seriously than anyone I've ever met in my life. And BTW, I never mentioned breasts, ass and leg man here. So you obviously don't know me, lol. The internet never changes.

No I take Porn more seriously... But that's where you can find my topics on the OT section of GAF...

BTW... You do know that "horrible" DOA5 pic was a bullshot right? The DOA4 one was in-game. So if a bullshot looks worse, that should tell you something.
 
No I take Porn more seriously... But that's where you can find my topics on the OT section of GAF...

BTW... You do know that "horrible" DOA5 pic was a bullshot right? The DOA4 one was in-game. So if a bullshot looks worse, that should tell you something.
I'm fully expecting a new DOA game for the PS4/720 launch. It'll be based on DOA5's engine and have a short development cycle like the DOAU --> DOA4 cycle, and while it won't blow DOA5 away, it'll fix all the IQ, shader, and texture issues.

And then I will be happy.

What was that other guy going on about, by the way? So confused.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I'm fully expecting a new DOA game for the PS4/720 launch. It'll be based on DOA5's engine and have a short development cycle like the DOAU --> DOA4 cycle, and while it won't blow DOA5 away, it'll fix all the IQ, shader, and texture issues.


Why would you not expect a next gen version of DOA to blow a current gen version away?


I'm mean sure launch games aren't always spectacular, but unless they are cross gen games like Gun, they pretty much always blow away old gen games...
 
Why would you not expect a next gen version of DOA to blow a current gen version away?

I'm mean sure launch games aren't always spectacular, but unless they are cross gen games like Gun, they pretty much always blow away old gen games...
I'm expecting a DOAU --> DOA4 style leap on account of a very short dev cycle.

DOA4 was gorgeous because of its IQ and use of color (and it was an early example of motion blur done right), but the character models and environments did not blow away DOA3/DOAU by any means.
 
Nothing that stands out.

When I play the game, there is nothing that stands out to me and says "man they had to sacrifice this and that in order to get area looking this good."

All I see is "Holy shit this looks better than any 360 game I've ever seen."
It didn't take long for me to notice that Halo 4 had worse textures, lower rez skyboxes and muted lighting compared to Reach. I think Halo 4 looks very nice at times, but I attribute that to excellent artistic design. As a technical showcase for this gen the game has gotten massively overrated on this (and other) gaming forums.
 

?oe?oe

Member
I was TORN apart for saying that Uncharted wasn't all that impressive graphically when it was first revealed. Lol, I remember pre-demodded Amirox sifting through my post history to try to invalidate my opinion. Good times.

Uncharted 2 was truly a generation defining moment though. What a beautiful game.
I haven't played 2 or 3, but when I first played the first one, I was blown away.

It's funny how the new games of the generation strike you, but you get accustomed to the console and when newer games comes out, they don't impact you much until you see how far it has come.

Its like you don't notice someone age if you're with them all the time. You don't see them for a while and then you met up again and BAM.
 

Borman

Member
ESPN NFL Football 2K5

I just popped this into my Xbox, downloaded some updated rosters, and wow, it is still great. I got use to the fact that Madden chugs when the menus start popping up, here the interface is smooth as butter (compared to Madden anyway). Gameplay is just as great too!
 

Reiko

Banned
I'm fully expecting a new DOA game for the PS4/720 launch. It'll be based on DOA5's engine and have a short development cycle like the DOAU --> DOA4 cycle, and while it won't blow DOA5 away, it'll fix all the IQ, shader, and texture issues.

And then I will be happy.

What was that other guy going on about, by the way? So confused.

I have no idea. lol
 
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