hey tell riot to give taric lich's ult
it'll be totally balanced and i'll finally be able to play carry taric
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
League of Legends or DoTA 2
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
hey tell riot to give taric lich's ult
it'll be totally balanced and i'll finally be able to play carry taric
Rally was removed from the game. You can take Promote instead now though.
That's experience with the battle.net community where Blizzard didn't give a shit about anything, let alone stuff like garena.
I'm not saying that the community improved much but the WC3 dota experience not something really reliable.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
FieryBalrog
Member
I put 300+ hours into DotA 1 and 500ish into LoL.
I played 3 games of DotA 2 which is gameplay identical to DotA 1.
I played Dota 2 for ~115 hours after I got into the beta over a few weeks to try it out. Went back to primarily playing League. I don't consider what I put in to be serious time, as these sort of games have a heavy time investment to really learn everything, though I'd like to think I gave it as fair a shot as I could. I like both games and see myself playing both, but League is just more fun for me right now.
What does that prove? They aren't even the same community. You said yourself that you're a Dota player that moved onto LoL. Who's to say the majority didn't migrate to LoL as well?
This. I don't know anyone that still preferred LoL over Dota 2. I've converted many of my friends to Dota 2 and they never looked back. I taught them Dota 2, and it was difficult for them at first, but now I play with them regularly.
Yup. And HoN has the best interface and cleanest art style (it's always easy to tell what's going on). And HoN has made a ton of mechanics improvements. And with HoN you're not going to have any maphackers. And HoN has builds for Windows, Mac, and Linux.
HoN really is the best of these games, by far. HoN's problems are the community and the developers.
The community is trash, but that's true of all of these games. Think DOTA 2 will be different after release? :LOL
The developers are basically trolls and assholes. If you ever get into a game with one, expect to be flamed to no end. If you call out the dev for their behavior on the forums, the game will be erased from history (so no one can see their chatlog) and you'll be banned from the forums. There are also "celebrity" players that the devs select to be in tournaments and promotions and shit, and whenever one of these kids gets caught smurfing or stat boosting, they get a free pass. Anyone else would be banned.
I'll say this. Whoever can come up with a good bot system will get my playing time. I really hate playing against other human players cause of all the trash talking that goes on.
So far with LOL, I put up with their intermediate bots and wish they would hurry up and bring on the hard mode bots. I tried playing the DoTA2 bots and got whooped, but I guess I need to become more familiar with the game first before rating their bots.
So far with LOL, I put up with their intermediate bots and wish they would hurry up and bring on the hard mode bots. I tried playing the DoTA2 bots and got whooped, but I guess I need to become more familiar with the game first before rating their bots.
I've come to despise both games, but League of Legends has clearly, CLEARLY, the more interesting looking hero designs (and I never really played the original Dota and I could tell immediately which Dota 2 hero is based on which WC3 unit, it's ridicules)
but Dota 2 is going to replace LoL, so
but Dota 2 is going to replace LoL, so
This is the first time ever i heard that HoN has a clean art style, let alone the cleanest.
Also there are not going to be maphackers in any of the other major games of the genre.
When I have played HoN, I've always had trouble telling what's going on. In Dota 2 it's no problem. I think the whole game just looks too dark to tell what's going on a lot of the time. I remember seeing Flint Beastwood and was thinking "Who is that hero? I want to try him." So I looked through the heroes thinking "Maybe it's this Master of Arms guy?" Navigating the jungles in that game always seemed confusing to me, especially the Hellbourne jungle.
I also don't quite get some of the "mechanics improvements".
No runes at 0:00 - Why change this? I guess it doesn't matter too much, but I think it's more interesting if a fight breaks out right off the bat over a rune.
Free courier - Part of supports' job is to buy the courier. It's a good way to make sure the team is picking a support, and if they don't, somebody has to take the 175 gold fall right off the bat.
No secret shop - Secret shop encourages less turtling in my opinion. You can't build that Divine Rapier by farming all day and turtling near base, and then pushing and winning the game. There's always some kind of risk involved in going to the secret shop (depending if you have wards), whether you go yourself or send the courier, which losing in Dota/Dota 2 can be a pretty big deal.
I'd say it improves it to a certain extend. Having ranked locked till a player grasps the core of the game is a pretty damn good idea for this genre. And it at least places some value on the account. Never going to be able to remove griefers completely, but they have something to lose. The other half being all unlocked characters. It puts a smile on my face when reading a Tribunal post about a Gold player who spend 300$ being banned for being a douche bag.
Runes are definitely the biggest scam, yes scam. I already said my bit on it. Not just being forced to buy them, but the fucking pages to use them is bullshit. I could very easily get over characters being bought. They need a more progressive decay for older ones and I'd consider making ones like Ashe, Alistar, Soraka, and a few other 450-1350 points free to all.
Pretty sure Dota is also designed in a way that should elminate map hackers, and it will have Win/Mac and Linux when they get around to supporting it. I like how you mention HoN Mac support, pretty sure they had some audio bug that S2 didn't fix for months.
HoN is a complete mess when it comes to art, and the some of the skins look like they've been done by amateurs.
I drop in on the MOBA-related threads once in a while. I've stopped surfing GAF though, for the most part. The quality of posts has seriously gone down the shitter overall. Junior Members, nawmean?Swear to me that you still love HoN GAF nome.
Swear to me!
Don't get me started on HoN skins.
Valkyrie (Mirana equivalent) default skin (top right):
Valkyrie alternate skin:
This looks like a different hero! It would be like if Anti-Mage was suddenly riding a horse!
Dota is a game that has constantly evolved. And just because something innovates doesnt mean its better.
Played Dota1 hardcore for years. Gave LoL a shot and played it for about a year. Tried to play dota again and it felt a lot more jankier. Hard to describe. Never tried Dota2 but if's exactly like dota1 with purdy graphics then it will be hard for me to get back into.
I like rune pages/masteries. It gives heroes mutiple possible roles instead of being stuck to a certain type. You got supports that can int carry or even jungle, dps that can instead tank/jungle, int that can go ad, and etc.
Both communities were about the same - terrible!
I like rune pages/masteries. It gives heroes mutiple possible roles instead of being stuck to a certain type. You got supports that can int carry or even jungle, dps that can instead tank/jungle, int that can go ad, and etc.
Both communities were about the same - terrible!
Can do that in Dota, and you don't need to farm a bunch of runes either.
HoN is the easiest game to differentiate all the effects and heroes in, by far.
You couldn't tell what was going on because you didn't know which hero was which. That has nothing to do with the interface or art style, it's just you not being familiar with the heroes.
You couldn't navigate the jungle because... ? Do you have a reason or was it just the fact that it wasn't identical to DotA that threw you off?
The lack of a rune at 0 prevents the middle lane being influenced by luck at the start of the game.
The free courier is there precisely because it isn't support's job to be a ward and courier bitch all game. Playing support in DotA is more like work than a game. HoN has been trying to reduce the focus on carry heroes and drawn out farm fests, while increasing the versatility of support heroes. This makes it so roles are much more flexible and games are more dynamic. If your carry fucks up you aren't immediately screwed. A game where someone farms the jungle for 40 minutes then steps out to roflstomp the entire enemy team is extremely rare now. They've also changed the way couriers refill bottles to reduce the focus on the middle lane (they only refill 2/3 of it). They've also changed the purchasing or wards (you can buy individual wards) so it's less of a burden on a support hero. They've also introduced new items and changed existing ones so that the game isn't all about the carry. These are good things.
I don't know why they removed the secret shop but I don't miss it. I think being able to buy wards and potions there was a good change. I don't think removing the secret shop encourages turtling. You can't really turtle in HoN since you're giving up the farm of both jungles, Kongor (Rosh), and runes. Being able to buy items doesn't matter when you've got no gold to buy them with.
They also limited buybacks to 2 to prevent carry-focused games from going on forever.
If you want a good MOBA HoN is your best bet. As with any MOBA, play with friends.
If you want a DotA clone stick with DotA 2.
Some of the skins are good and some are pure shit (Vacation Dampper, Teen Nighthound), but so what? Don't buy them.
I do agree that sometimes it's confusing because you don't know who the fuck is who when they have an alternate skin, but it's never bothered me enough to do anything about it (you can download mods that replace everyone's custom skins with the defaults).
The Mac audio bug wasn't their fault, it was a change on OSX that fucked it up. Yeah, it did take them a while to work around it, but if you think Valve is going to be great at stomping all bugs, lol.
Not needing to grind runes to play a hero to their full potential is definitely a plus in DOTA2's favor.
Runes and masteries are just a really manipulative way of giving players a feeling of "progression", like the kind found in in MMOs. But all it really does is make the game worse by forcing players to grind to be on even terms with older players. Gear grindfests are stupid in MMOs, weapon unlocks are stupid in FPSes, champion/rune unlocks are stupid in LoL. A newer player is literally at a disadvantage not because they're worse than older playters, but because the new player didn't play as long as the veterans. For any game that claims to be competitive, this is completely indefensible.
Runes and masteries are just a really manipulative way of giving players a feeling of "progression", like the kind found in in MMOs. But all it really does is make the game worse by forcing players to grind to be on even terms with older players. Gear grindfests are stupid in MMOs, weapon unlocks are stupid in FPSes, champion/rune unlocks are stupid in LoL. A newer player is literally at a disadvantage not because they're worse than older playters, but because the new player didn't play as long as the veterans. For any game that claims to be competitive, this is completely indefensible.
Solo mid Axe is the best 'unconventional' hero. I can't wait until Zenith wins TI2 with it. 
Several points:
I prefer Dota's solution to the courier. It no longer has invulnerability, and if it dies there is a 3 minute respawn timer and a 175/hero bounty for killing it. Also, items don't drop from it any more.
Dota hasn't been a farm fest in months. Maybe before Lycan, Brew and Sylla were added you'd be right. Now it's mostly about pushing and ganking.
There are many mid tier items in Dota that a support can normally afford (Drums, Medallion, Urn, etc)
Dota has a 5 minute cooldown on buybacks which allows for early game buybacks without having to worry about blowing your load prematurely.
Several points:
I prefer Dota's solution to the courier. It no longer has invulnerability, and if it dies there is a 3 minute respawn timer and a 175/hero bounty for killing it. Also, items don't drop from it any more.
Dota hasn't been a farm fest in months. Maybe before Lycan, Brew and Sylla were added you'd be right. Now it's mostly about pushing and ganking.
There are many mid tier items in Dota that a support can normally afford (Drums, Medallion, Urn, etc)
Dota has a 5 minute cooldown on buybacks which allows for early game buybacks without having to worry about blowing your load prematurely.
LOL. Summoner skills where everyone picks flash is an innovation? No denying? I'd say being able to deny your creeps was something that made Dota much more interesting in the early game phase.
Most of LoL's "innovations" made the game worse. Summoner skills, runes, masteries add nothing to the game. In fact, it would be a better game without them.
They removed bottle crow almost a year ago, so have fun if you're losing middle and can't fill your bottle.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I don't see how Dota 2 being a Dota clone is a negative for it.
That's the design direction and the point. It's suppose to be a remake of Dota that just upgrades it to the modern era in mechanics and graphics, but keeps essentially the same "feeling" and balance of Dota.
That's the design direction and the point. It's suppose to be a remake of Dota that just upgrades it to the modern era in mechanics and graphics, but keeps essentially the same "feeling" and balance of Dota.
Good! If you're losing mid you should call for help or get a rune to refill. You shouldn't sit there uselessly with low hp and mana while you hog the courier all day.
HoN's changes have been focused on making the game more suited to team play and less suited to one pubescent kid acting like he's the center of the universe because he picked a carry.
Yes, people miss this very important point. DOTA2 is meant to be DotA as a standalone game, not as some kind of next leap forward. They will both be developed in parallel though I'm sure Valve hopes that eventually every DotA will make the switch to DOTA2.
Pssst, most hard carries go in safe/long lane, not mid
Yes, people miss this very important point. DOTA2 is meant to be DotA as a standalone game, not as some kind of next leap forward. They will both be developed in parallel though I'm sure Valve hopes that eventually every DotA will make the switch to DOTA2.
Pssst, most hard carries go in safe/long lane, not mid
Just remember what our Lord and Savior Icefrog said:
Amen
Okay so I haven't really played HoN except for one game as Flux, but there's no way this doesn't apply to Dota. Just no way. If you play as a selfish carry who doesn't assist in teamfights or doesn't let your supports get gold and kills for items, you will lose flatout.
Big Chungus
Member
so many dota 2 avatars
Haha, what? Carries are by definition selfish. And yes, in DotA when you have a carry who is TOO selfish you will almost always lose. In HoN that loss comes at 30 minutes. In DotA your selfish carry will drag it out to 45, 50, or even past an hour.
HoN at least gives the other players a chance to win it 4v5. By making supports more versatile and carries less ridiculous, a team of 4 can easily come back despite their 5th player doing nothing but farming, or even leaving. I've been there and done it countless times, as support. Anyone can save the day in HoN - your hopes aren't pinned on one guy as soon as character selection ends. This is a good thing.
You've played one game of HoN and you talk about the gameplay and the art style? You haven't even given it a chance. You tried it once and you went back to DotA because it was different.
If you're talking about me, HoN doesn't have easy mode any more (they have casual mode, which is different from easy mode, normal mode, and hardcore mode).
I play normal mode - SD, BP, and BD.
You have certainly not played the same Dota as I have. I'm afraid your post will not make a lot of sense to most people.
FieryBalrog
Member
Again, what's this polite pretension, the only update is the graphics, the shop interface and the community layer on top. There is no update to game mechanics or gameplay.
e.g.
BW -> SC2 = update to modern era in mechanics and an actual new game.
DotA -> DotA 2 :: BW -> BW: HD.
Funny you say that, seem a lot of people complain that SC2 just isn't as good as BW.
That's because Dota is about incremental changes. Modern Dota is very different than when Icefrog started development. I don't understand why you can't see that and why you must go on a rant about how outdated and arcane the game is. It gets kinda tiresome, y'know?
They really should move the minimap
When did I say anything about HoN's playstyle...? All I was saying is that what you said about Dota's gameplay is NOT true unless you are playing in bottom tier games. Don't put words in my mouth and stop accusing me of random stuff. A selfish carry in Dota will probably lose you the game within 20 minutes as you lose every tower, Roshan, and complete map control. It's like you're speaking about the outdated Dota of three or four years ago where farming with Medusa/Alchemist for 50 minutes was king. I've made zero claims about HoN's gameplay.
Then I guess they did a good job
Schweinehund
Member
Here's my problem with LoL champion design;
Half of the champs are yordles, and 90% of the skins are for teemo.
Half of the champs are yordles, and 90% of the skins are for teemo.
forgeforsaken
Member
You guys keep picking champs from their early days for the most part, Yi, Eve etc. They've gotten a lot better generally, though they still make some clunkers.
Solo mid Axe is the best 'unconventional' hero. I can't wait until Zenith wins TI2 with it.
Several points:
I prefer Dota's solution to the courier. It no longer has invulnerability, and if it dies there is a 3 minute respawn timer and a 175/hero bounty for killing it. Also, items don't drop from it any more.
Dota hasn't been a farm fest in months. Maybe before Lycan, Brew and Sylla were added you'd be right. Now it's mostly about pushing and ganking.
There are many mid tier items in Dota that a support can normally afford (Drums, Medallion, Urn, etc)
Dota has a 5 minute cooldown on buybacks which allows for early game buybacks without having to worry about blowing your load prematurely.
Actually it was big pushing even before Lycan. In fact, there was a point where it was just pushing and teamfight. Turtling is not on an even footing anymore. Neither are ganking lineups. Hopefully the Chinese can shake up the Euro scene with their chasing oriented mid game line ups.
FieryBalrog
Member
I'm one of them, or rather was. It's not- yet. But it's better than I gave it credit for. And it was a ton of effort and intelligent, carefully crafted work on their part.
SouthernDragon
Member
I don't understand how Flash encourages passive play.
If anything, I'm more aggressive. I know I have a way out of if things get too hairy. I'm also constantly looking to FORCE the opponent to Flash. If they do, I'll know I can zone them out of farm and possibly xp for at least a good 2-3 minutes while their jungle trundles around.
If anything, I'm more aggressive. I know I have a way out of if things get too hairy. I'm also constantly looking to FORCE the opponent to Flash. If they do, I'll know I can zone them out of farm and possibly xp for at least a good 2-3 minutes while their jungle trundles around.