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[Haly]

Riot is only good when it comes to designing waifus. Everything else is junk.

Riot claims Draven is Darius' brother but we all know who he's really related to:

I don't understand how Flash encourages passive play.

If anything, I'm more aggressive. I know I have a way out of if things get too hairy. I'm also constantly looking to FORCE the opponent to Flash. If they do, I'll know I can zone them out of farm and possibly xp for at least a good 2-3 minutes while their jungle trundles around.

lol.

Contradiction aside, Flash encourages passive play because it makings aggressive play less viable (every gank or aggression needs to succeed twice, once to waste their flash, the other to actually kill them) and roaming less viable. We talked about support a few pages back and some people complained about the lack of gp10 items for support. This is because in DOTA2, a good support player gets money from assists, which comes from roaming and ganking.

In LoL roaming isn't nearly as viable as it is in DOTA2. Only the jungler is expected to roam as a part of his core role. This is mainly because of the lack of hard CC, and because of everyone running Flash. Supports like Lion and CM can not only lock people down for 2-3 seconds, but also dish out a ton of damage, luxuries most LoL supports don't have, pigeonholing them into stacking gp5 items and gp10 runes in order to afford their wards.

 

[HK-47]

You guys keep picking champs from their early days for the most part, Yi, Eve etc. They've gotten a lot better generally, though they still make some clunkers.

LoL leans too heavily on humanoids. The only thing I like is that LoL has a good gender balance, even if pretty much every female is built like a sexual fantasy.

 

[FieryBalrog]

The main problem with LoL tourney play isn't flash, it's how easy it is to play with near-perfect vision.

Though flash is one of them, and jungle design is another.

 

[Gaston]

As an avid League of Legends player I have to say that I prefer LoL over DotA. Now before you jump down my throat, I HAVE played and tried out DotA 2, before the client eventually stopped working on my computer and I decided to just uninstall. In terms of which is more fun, having far more hours into LoL, I can say that it is definitely more fun for me. However, this is not to say that I could never play DotA 2 more. I find myself, as many seem to, with the majority of their time invested into the one game so naturally I flock to play with them. it is far less frustrating to be able to play with a group of friends and have only 3/5 be potential trolls in solo/duo que.

The only really distinguishing factor that solidifies my love of LoL over DotA 2 is the pro scene. I am absolutely in love with the LoL pro scene and the teams. I'm a team solomid fanboy at heart and really have not had this much fun being a fan in a long long time. For me, watching pro-LoL equates to what others probably feel while playing sports. I'm invested in a team and am truly joyous when they win, and in despair when they're in a slump. You will always have my heart Oddone.

 

[Mechazawa]

Has anyone in here amused the thought that HoN, LoL and Dota 2 can all be competitive, highly skillful games?

Is the OP even reading this thread after what it devolved into? What did he end up picking to stick to.

 

[FtHTiny]

Not to devalue runes, but there are GAF players who don't use runes and still regularly win lanes.

Well that isn´t really the point, i and i guess many other can win some lanes/games with funbuilds aswell in hon/dota, but if i want to play the hero to his full potential i have to have the good runes which means even more grinding.

Leveling up serves 2 purposes. The first one is obvious: it eases newcomers into the game by not flooding them with mechanics and placing them against players of equal skill, smurfs nonwithstanding.

It is also an anti-griefing mechanism. When you need 40 hours to be able to play ranked, you are more likely to shape up after you've gotten a warning or first ban else you have to grind again.

I´m not sure if there is any difference when you hit maxlevel in terms of manners or something, but the games are just boring to grind up. If i go 0:2 on the toplane and i still outfarm the opponent (which you just can look up ingame in LoL) most of the games are not fun to play because they aren´t balanced at all skillwise.

I mean LoL is good and all but the system around runes and heroes really really sucks.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Has anyone in here amused the thought that HoN, LoL and Dota 2 can all be competitive, highly skillful games?

Is the OP even reading this thread after what it devolved into? What did he end up picking to stick to.

They can be, but THE GAME I PLAY IS BETTER THAN THE GAME YOU PLAY, SO THERE

BECAUSE YOUR GAME IS FOR BABIES

 

[Haly]

All games are skillful, but some are more skillful than others.

.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

and I never really played the original Dota and I could tell immediately which Dota 2 hero is based on which WC3 uni

That's the point, it's a remake.

 

[ksan]

Has anyone in here amused the thought that HoN, LoL and Dota 2 can all be competitive, highly skillful games?

Is the OP even reading this thread after what it devolved into? What did he end up picking to stick to.

LoL will never be considered close to as skillful compared to Dota/HoN by anyone who has been into competitive games for a long time.

edit: except for Carmac, but that's certainly not due to vested interests!

 

[Mechazawa]

They can be, but THE GAME I PLAY IS BETTER THAN THE GAME YOU PLAY, SO THERE

BECAUSE YOUR GAME IS FOR BABIES

Yeah, well, at least my game doesn't HAVE THESE DUMB THINGS WHICH I BACK UP WITH MY MISINFORMED LOGIC.

I will now categorize the moba games by top tier characters in fighting games:
HoN - Petshop from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
LoL - Chun Li from 3rd Strike
Dota 2 - Freeman from Garou MotW

LoL will never be considered close to as skillful compared to Dota/HoN by anyone who has been into competitive games for a long time.

edit: except for Carmac, but that's certainly not due to vested interests!

Ok, but some of the leaps to conclusions here over how wide the gulf between these games are seem more like hyperbolic garbage and less critical discussion.

 

[Haly]

Fan those flames ksan, fight the good fight.

 

[Tomat]

As an avid League of Legends player I have to say that I prefer LoL over DotA. Now before you jump down my throat, I HAVE played and tried out DotA 2, before the client eventually stopped working on my computer and I decided to just uninstall. In terms of which is more fun, having far more hours into LoL, I can say that it is definitely more fun for me. However, this is not to say that I could never play DotA 2 more. I find myself, as many seem to, with the majority of their time invested into the one game so naturally I flock to play with them. it is far less frustrating to be able to play with a group of friends and have only 3/5 be potential trolls in solo/duo que.

The only really distinguishing factor that solidifies my love of LoL over DotA 2 is the pro scene. I am absolutely in love with the LoL pro scene and the teams. I'm a team solomid fanboy at heart and really have not had this much fun being a fan in a long long time. For me, watching pro-LoL equates to what others probably feel while playing sports. I'm invested in a team and am truly joyous when they win, and in despair when they're in a slump. You will always have my heart Oddone.

Just to clarify, liking League over DOTA2 is absolutely not a problem and nobody here should be giving you shit for it.

We're debating game mechanics and other stuff. If you like one game over the other that's all good.

 

[dimb]

Many of the most popular champions in the most recent MLG tournament for League were ones that use Flash aggressively, like Karthus, Urgot, Morgana, and Nautilus. It is a fallacy that Flash makes League a more passive game. It opens up just as many opportunities for aggression and allows people to go further into the map than they might otherwise be able to.

 

[ksan]

Fan those flames ksan, fight the good fight.

hey i was like #3 on the tiny wings leaderboard the first week, don't diss me bro

 

[Haly]

Many of the most popular champions in the most recent MLG tournament for League were ones that use Flash aggressively, like Karthus, Urgot, Morgana, and Nautilus. It is a fallacy that Flash makes League a more passive game. It opens up just as many opportunities for aggression and allows people to go further into the map than they might otherwise be able to.

In DOTA we call that Blink Dagger (or Force Staff if you're feeling tricky) except getting it comes with a cost rather than it being available to everyone (regardless of how well they synergize with it) and basically a staple of every competitive game.

And while I admit that Flash can be used aggressively by certain champs, you absolutely cannot deny that Flash makes ganking and roaming more difficult in the laning phase. This is not even considering the strength of LoL towers compared to their DOTA counterparts.

A good portion of the game design choices make early game less volatile and intense than it is in DOTA. This is not strictly a bad thing, but from an older player's or spectator's standpoint it can be very boring.

 

[Sanjay]

HoN is the easiest game to differentiate all the effects and heroes in, by far.

Haha:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgRcvkxL73I&feature=plcp

LoL will never be considered close to as skillful compared to Dota/HoN by anyone who has been into competitive games for a long time.

Real talk by Mr HoNGaf.

 

[ksan]

There's a certain problem with people thinking that any design decision that doesn't improve consitency automatically means that the game requires less skill.
Even in a game like Poker it's incredibly easy to prove that good players are statistically a lot better than worse players.

Real talk by Mr HoNGaf.

#YOLO

 

[shintoki]

In DOTA we call that Blink Dagger (or Force Staff if you're feeling tricky) except getting it comes with a cost rather than it being available to everyone (regardless of how well they synergize with it) and basically a staple of every competitive game.

And while I admit that Flash can be used aggressively by certain champs, you absolutely cannot deny that Flash makes ganking and roaming more difficult in the laning phase.

Flash is always going to be picked for 8/9 of the 10 champions at the very least, if not all 10. So you really only have to make the choice between one summoner spell. I mean if everyone has it already... it seems to make it a mute point. In many ways, probably the worst sort. For to spec to get a certain skill, just because that skill is far more efficient than anything else.

 

[Haly]

I feel that Flash is a design problem, but Riot seems to have no intent of removing it because too much of the balance assumes an environment where people have access to Flash.

Whenever one strategy consistently trumps alternatives, that's a problem.

 

[shintoki]

I feel that Flash is a design problem, but Riot seems to have no intent of removing it because too much of the balance assumes an environment where people have access to Flash.

Whenever one strategy consistently trumps alternatives, that's a problem.

Well if they remove flash. Characters with already high maneuverability will become god-like. Lee Sin or Ezreal. And characters without any real distance gainer or CC, ala Ashe or Cait, are just going to get wrecked.

 

[Haly]

Counterargument: Lee Sin is already godlike, Ezreal could use a buff, Ashe could use a nerf, cait has her net thing which is more than MF has! Katarina needs a buff, Akali needs a buff, Irelia needs a buff nerf.

Karma needs a buff but that's completely unrelated.

They could also put it on an item. That way, only the champs who do a lot of farming (AD carries, junglers, etc) can get them.

 

[Boken]

Counter argument: Evelyn

Flash is a problem during laning, but not during team fights.

So how do we fix that?

Flash locked until level 6, increase its range back :O
Now that's a real nerf

 

[Haly]

Counter argument: Evelyn

Flash is a problem during laning, but not during team fights.

So how do we fix that?

Flash locked until level 6, increase its range back :O

Bandage solutions, like the Flash range nerf (lol) the Flash cooldown nerf (lol).

More bandages will mitigate but not remove the problem entirely. Flash is one of those things that's so useful that if it is just good enough to be worth using, everyone will use it.

 

[kayos90]

Flash might make ganks and attacks obsolete/mute in a way but it is still a skill at your disposal. You can force someone to waste their flash and as a result, that's one less utility for the next encounter. I think the dynamics of LoL of having flash is better than not.

 

[shiv_]

Flash is just one thing, in a long list of things, that makes LoL a much less punishing, much less aggressive MOBA when compared to HoN or DOTA2, so that is pretty pointless to debate.

Deciphering WTF is going on in the game because of [perceived] graphical 'flaws' is also pointless to debate, because it really won't impact the amount of time it takes to get acceptably 'good' at any of these games. You won't be a good MOBA player in a few weeks, it takes a long time... By then you will have already learned not to walk into the big swirling void thingy from Enigma/Tempest. What you wouldn't have learned is the importance of canceling attack animations, defending runes, where to ward and why, how to disjoint skills, how to last hit like a boss, pull creep spawns, what lanes/combos are good matchups, etc...

If you and your friends are new to MOBA's, I recommend just playing LoL, and if you get bored, try a different one.

If you're a long time DOTA player and looking for something new, I recommend trying HoN -- the movement and animations are far crisper (and faster in some cases), and there have been many subtle changes to make the game much more aggressive and fast paced. All it's missing is Wind Runner and Ancient Apparition. Sorry bout it.

 

[Drkirby]

I'm pretty sure 0% of the MOBA population agree with you.

Lets be generous here, .1%.

 

[Haly]

Flash might make ganks and attacks obsolete/mute in a way but it is still a skill at your disposal. You can force someone to waste their flash and as a result, that's one less utility for the next encounter. I think the dynamics of LoL of having flash is better than not.

Yes, they did a decent job of balancing the game around Flash. However I feel that it should've been removed entirely (as a summoner's spell) the moment they saw that it was a problem (in Beta basically, I'm pretty sure I made at least one post on Flash during beta).

 

[Boken]

Bandage solutions, like the Flash range nerf (lol) the Flash cooldown nerf (lol).

More bandages will mitigate but not remove the problem entirely. Flash is one of those things that's so useful that:
1) If it's so bad it's not worth using, no one will use it.
2) If it is just good enough to be worth using, everyone will use it.

Locking flash isnt like nerfing the cooldown or range since it changes the mechanic of the spell. (The fact that you only have one summoner spell for 7 minutes)

Flash is still incredibly important for repositioning in team fights but the sacrifice is now made that you're weaker in lane compared to a person who eschewed it for double summoners.

Level 6 locked flash buffs initiate based champions (like kennen, galio, fiddle) early game gankers, early game lane comps.

There's also the argument that without flash, players would be even more passive vs their laning opponent. I think by aggression Dota players mean they want to roaming and I'm not sure thats possible without teleport scrolls and the weaker cc in LoL (except alistar and nautlius they're losers)

Too drastic a change then

 

[Haly]

Yes, that's what most player mean by aggression and I agree removing Flash won't fix the problem entirely because I'm pretty sure Riot set out to discourage that kind of pop up across the level to gank thing DOTA has. Again, the issue is too far gone to do anything about it now, not that they want to.

I JUST DON'T LIKE FLASH.

 

[FieryBalrog]

DotA also has more heroes that can operate without farm, stronger early CC and just encourages more cross lane movement in general.

It's not just Flash.

Flash is the reason every melee champ and their mother have gap closers or MS steroids, though.

 

[Gaston]

Just to clarify, liking League over DOTA2 is absolutely not a problem and nobody here should be giving you shit for it.

We're debating game mechanics and other stuff. If you like one game over the other that's all good.

I realize noone can hate me for liking the game. But the topic did start out on what game should he play, not necessarily which game has the better mechanics. That debate started of its own accord. I just wanted to give my 2 cents as to why I prefer LoL.

 

[drkOne]

League of Legends meta is pretty much laughable when compared to Dota 2.

It's true that it hasn't had the same amount of time to flourish, but Riot hasn't got what it takes to innovate the genre.
They always fall into the same archetypes. Attack Damage/Ranged, Ability Power/Ranged, Tank/Melee, Bruiser/Melee, Support/Healer. You pick one of each and tada, 99% of competitive team composition.
No champion does anything extraordinary…

Look at Dota's Invoker. If you think Riot would ever be able to make a character like that…
Riot won't take risks and won't go away from their standards just to make sure they don't break the game.

The same shows for items. You won't find many situational items on LoL. You won't be matching your items with your abilities, at least to the same extend you do in Dota. Most of the LoL items are Passive, they give you stats. A lot of items on Dota have active abilities, which is much harder to balance.

In the end even though Riot tries their hardest to keep the game balanced, every single time they release a new champion they break the game. 8 out of the 9 champions Riot released this year came out broken as hell.
Everyone decides to buy (a lot of people end up spending money to have that "OP champion" advantage) the champion, then a couple of weeks later they just tweak it and most of the time if you were to choose if you still want the champion pos-nerf maybe the answer would be no. So every time you decide you want to play the new awesome champion you have to remind yourself, no guarantees you'll still want the champion a couple of weeks later.

Account level also makes no sense. You are unranked until level 30, which should be around 200-250 games, then they "measure" your skill level in 10 games. That's not how you do matchmaking. Smurfing happens, which means that people starting won't be playing with people their skill level.
If you want to go ranked you have two choices: you either carry yourself out of the ELO(rank) they put you in or you'll be forever playing with stupid players.
Masteries/Runes don't open more possibilities, they're only hiding information. In Dota if someone has 10% Life Steal, you'll know, since that can only come from skills/items. In LoL you can just have your "hidden stuff" give you that.
Dota/LoL is a game of math, hiding information is not the way to go.

If you want to play this genre casually, play LoL, 90% of the community will match your mindset. The rest just don't want to bother learning Dota.
I still remember how LoL was during beta, it was broken as fuck, but at least the community was tight.
Nowadays everyone plays LoL and that shows. At 1500 ELO I was getting match after match of winning lane phase but then no one knows what to do afterwards…

Meh, I could go on about the lack of denies and how that is a bigger deal than it looks like, the lack of a insta-teleport you can simply buy, the lack of courier, the jungle, warding, runes, Roshan, buy-backs, losing gold on death, having all the champions for free, …

LoL is a casualized Dota, and there is a market for that, just don't fool yourself thinking LoL does anything better than Dota, other than simplifying what is pretty complicated and scary for first timers.

 

[Soule]

What an entertaining thread, just came in to say I played LoL for maybe 100 hours-ish before getting a Dota invite and have since invested like 300 hours into Dota, which I have found to be much more satisfying. Just wanted to agree with whoever said it was a bad idea to train up on LoL in anticipation of Dota, just creates bad habits because the games are different enough that the playstyles require fairly different approaches. Had good scores in LoL and when I changed over it was a real kick to the ego having to reteach myself how to approach it.

 

[FieryBalrog]

LoL is a casualized Dota, and there is a market for that, just don't fool yourself thinking LoL does anything better than Dota, other than simplifying what is pretty complicated and scary for first timers.

Uh, being a MUCH better casual game is exactly what it does better than DotA. And most people are casual players, including you, Mr. 1500 ELO.

I mean, DotA was popular because it was so much more low stress and mechanically easier than RTS, this elitism is kinda laughable. If you really want to be the most hardcore of the hardcore play Brood War or Quake, or go home. There is obviously value in being casual and FUN.

 

[Holden]

HoN is the easiest game to differentiate all the effects and heroes in, by far.

WHAT.

 

[ksan]

Uh, being a MUCH better casual game is exactly what it does better than DotA. And most people are casual players, including you, Mr. 1500 ELO.

I mean, DotA was popular because it was so much more low stress and mechanically easier than RTS, this elitism is kinda laughable. If you really want to be the most hardcore of the hardcore play Brood War or Quake, or go home. There is obviously value in being casual and FUN.

No, Dota became popular because it was a team game that was fun to play, just like CS became popular because it was a team game which also happened to be very good. Don't kid yourself.

You remember how Quake gamers talked about CS back in 99/00, right?

 

[SamVimes]

Uh, being a MUCH better casual game is exactly what it does better than DotA. And most people are casual players, including you, Mr. 1500 ELO.

I mean, DotA was popular because it was so much more low stress and mechanically easier than RTS, this elitism is kinda laughable. If you really want to be the most hardcore of the hardcore play Brood War or Quake, or go home. There is obviously value in being casual and FUN.

Good for you if you have FUN with a shallow experience in a game that's too afraid to take any risk.

 

[FieryBalrog]

No, Dota became popular because it was a team game that was fun to play, just like CS became popular because it was a team game which also happened to be very good. Don't kid yourself.

a team game that happens to be enormously mechanically easier and low stress than it's parent game, yeah. Don't kid yourself about that.

 

[Soule]

No, Dota became popular because it was a team game that was fun to play, just like CS became popular because it was a team game which also happened to be very good. Don't kid yourself.

That's what made me want to play in the first place, had 2 friends and the 3v3 map on LoL was perfect. I really hope Dota introduces a smaller map like the 3v3 in the future (obviously there's many things higher on the priority list though).

 

[ksan]

a team game that happens to be enormously mechanically easier and low stress than it's parent game, yeah. Don't kid yourself about that.

Your point is? You said that was the reason why it became popular, even though that wasn't even close to the main reason.

 

[drkOne]

Uh, being a MUCH better casual game is exactly what it does better than DotA. And most people are casual players, including you, Mr. 1500 ELO.

Dude, did you even finish reading that sentence? Re-read what you quoted.

Wait, I'll just put it in this post to make it easier for you:
other than simplifying what is pretty complicated and scary for first timers.

Reading comprehension much?

Also, you're basing how casual I am on my ELO, which makes me laugh. I finished Season 1 with 1900. I did lose my interest in LoL at some point and all I did on Season 2 was play with friends that started playing a couple of months ago and carried myself to 1500.

I wasn't going to carry myself any higher because the stupidity you see is really frustrating, and I don't play games to get frustrated.

Recently I decided I was done with LoL because I'm tired of Riot's decisions.
The next day the Dota 2 Store came out.

I mean, DotA was popular because it was so much more low stress and mechanically easier than RTS, this elitism is kinda laughable. If you really want to be the most hardcore of the hardcore play Brood War or Quake, or go home. There is obviously value in being casual and FUN.

Yes, DotA was a nice way to chill back in the Warcraft 3 days. But you're dead wrong if you think that's what made it popular. There were tons of other custom games, yet you don't see any of them being played competitively.
I'll let you guess why DotA is the one Riot decided to copy.

Oh, and "elitism"? I'm just saying LoL has less complexity than what I'm looking for in a competitive game, why did you get so easily offended?

 

[FieryBalrog]

Your point is? You said that was the reason why it became popular, even though that wasn't even close to the main reason.

You said a team game that was fun. Where on earth do you think a lot of the "fun" comes from?

It's a HUGE part of it's appeal. A team game with the mechanical complexity and stress of Brood War would never be this popular among the mass of players.

other than simplifying what is pretty complicated and scary for first timers.

Yes, because only first timers and newbies like more casual games.

 

[ksan]

You said a team game that was fun. Where on earth do you think a lot of the "fun" comes from?

It's a HUGE part of it's appeal. A team game with the mechanical complexity and stress of Brood War would never be this popular among the mass of players.

That's some historical revisionism. Even SC/Quake became hugely popular cause they were fun as hell to play.

 

[FieryBalrog]

That's some historical revisionism. Even SC/Quake became hugely popular cause they were fun as hell to play.

SC/Quake were not enduringly popular multiplayer games amongst the casual masses. Not even close to as popular as DotA/LoL. I mean LoL has more monthly players than WoW.

And a huge part of that is how completely unforgiving and stressful those games are, as well as being primarily 1v1 games where the entire responsibility is on you. I mean yea they were popular compared to niche titles, but they weren't casual games. I know people, boys and a surprising amount of girls, who don't play any hardcore games at all and would never enjoy SC/Quake, but they play LoL against bots and have a good time. Most pubbies who played BW didn't play 1v1 tourney maps, they played BGH or customs, and in War3's case, DotA obviously.

 

[SamVimes]

SC/Quake were not enduringly popular multiplayer games amongst the casual masses. Not even close to as popular as DotA/LoL. I mean LoL has more monthly players than WoW.

And a huge part of that is how completely unforgiving and stressful those games are, as well as being primarily 1v1 games where the entire responsibility is on you. I mean yea they were popular compared to niche titles, but they weren't casual games. I know people, boys and a surprising amount of girls, who don't play any hardcore games at all and would never enjoy SC/Quake, but they play LoL against bots and have a good time. Most pubbies who played BW didn't play 1v1 tourney maps, they played BGH or customs, and in War3's case, DotA obviously.

I'd say a huge part of that is that way less people had access to internet back then.

 

[f0rk]

SC/Quake were not enduringly popular multiplayer games amongst the casual masses.

Quake/SC were just as big relative to the size of online gaming back then. Where do you think the DOTA genre started?

 

[ksan]

SC/Quake were not enduringly popular multiplayer games amongst the casual masses. Not even close to as popular as DotA/LoL. I mean LoL has more monthly players than WoW.

And a huge part of that is how completely unforgiving and stressful those games are, as well as being primarily 1v1 games where the entire responsibility is on you. I mean yea they were popular compared to niche titles, but they weren't casual games. I know people, boys and a surprising amount of girls, who don't play any hardcore games at all and would never enjoy SC/Quake, but they play LoL against bots and have a good time. Most pubbies who played BW didn't play 1v1 tourney maps, they played BGH or customs, and in War3's case, DotA obviously.

So, are you saying that nearly every single guy my age enjoying Q3 at school was just a delusion?

I'd say a huge part of that is that way less people had access to internet back then.

Maybe the IT infrastructural superiority over here (at the time) just made more people enjoy multiplayer games earlier.
Korea is obviously another great example.

 

[FieryBalrog]

So, are you saying that nearly every single guy my age enjoying Q3 at school was just a delusion?

Setting aside your particular school, compare Q3 overall in popularity to Halo released just
2 years later. And don't bring up consoles, Halo was exclusive to an expensive small install-base console that there was very little reason otherwise to buy.

As for BW, casual players have never liked or played in big numbers 1v1 low resource BW, ever.

 

[drkOne]

SC/Quake were not enduringly popular multiplayer games amongst the casual masses.

If Blizzard or id wanted to make a game for the casual masses they'd have.

How do you please the hardcore? Make the skill cap huge, make the game balanced, make errors/mistakes matter.
How do you please the casuals? Make the skill cap low, make sure errors don't hurt as much, balance the game around players tastes.

Setting aside your particular school, compare Q3 overall in popularity to Halo released just
2 years later. And don't bring up consoles, Halo was exclusive to an expensive small install-base console that there was very little reason otherwise to buy.

As for BW, casual players have never liked or played in big numbers 1v1 low resource BW, ever.

Comparing Q3 to Halo seems pointless since no one played Halo in 2010 and there was still a community for Q3 by then.

As fun as your game might be, if you're targeting casuals, you'll only last until the next thing comes around.

LoL's ecosystem right now is a couple of competitive teams that play LoL because that's how they're making money. Because of LoL's popularity the streams usually have more viewers than Dota's, which means more cash for the players. Since they're making money why would they move to a different game?
Yes, it works out for both Riot and competitive players, for now… But this thread isn't about competitive gaming or popularity…