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[Northeastmonk]

In MMOs and anything that has a PVE or even PVP you are bound to walk into either a group of people more powerful than you or being completely helpless and needing someone.

I can think of a couple times when I've needed another person. In FFXI I was transitioning zones and I was attacked by a Coeurls. A guy came in and destroyed it. I just wanted to see everything. In games like that you can't solo for very long. Warframe seems like the same way. You are forced to have some sort of interaction inside the game to progress and some people just show off. They do whatever they can.

I get mad about it. I understand how the OP feels. The reason to progress boils down to showing off or not. This is one reason I don't necessarily get trophies or achievements. I do whatever it takes to finish the game. I'm just traditional at it. If something cool happens or if I can max something out along the way then that's wonderful. A lot of it is just common sense at its core. There's always that one guy whose maxed out that one thing before you got the chance to do anything or they know more than you do.

 

[Deitus]

I don't know anything about Dark Souls, so I am curious:

How is lagging out PVP'ers any different than just committing suicide to end the encounter as fast as possible?

Well for one thing, he isn't lagging them to force a disconnect, he is killing without them having the ability to fight back. Keep in mind that invasions are a core mechanic in these games, and people who engage in them are playing by the rules. There are covenants that reward players for successfully invading and killing other players, so most of the time when you get invaded, people aren't just trying to screw with you, they are trying to work towards a goal in their own game (and they might want a fair fight as well).

At least if someone throws themselves of the cliff, they might be depriving the invader of a fair fight, but the invader could still get credit for a win toward their respective covenant.

 

[-Ryn]

It's not about being offended because someone offended 'their game'. He got called out for admitting to cheating, then defended his position to the hilt in a massively dickish manner.

The amount of dog piling and name calling over a guy just wanting to play a game with his buds (albeit in a unsportsmanlike manner) is rather dickish as well. It's not like Derp has some kind of agenda against invaders.

Lol with all the emphasis on white stones, red stones, and covenants you don't think it was more CO-OP/PVP focus? Hell they even have invaders offline.

What emphasis? My bro and I played most of our first run through of Dark Souls without using any stones or joining some multiplayer covenant. The game having them doesn't make them the focus of the game. Just another way to play.

 

[Astral/H3X]

I don't know anything about Dark Souls, so I am curious:

How is lagging out PVP'ers any different than just committing suicide to end the encounter as fast as possible?

Because one is outright cheating, and one is just accepting defeat.

 

[Fbh]

Invasion are fucking annoying in Dark Souls, I want to co-op, but I don't want to PvP. I had to resort to UTP/TCP lag switch to lag out the invaders and kill them quickly, since it's all P2P based. And if I would just D/C them, then in future it would be harder to find people to help or get help. So I let red/gray scumbags suffer.

What an absolute idiot.
More PC games need a perma ban feature.

The amount of dog piling and name calling over a guy just wanting to play a game with his buds (albeit in a unsportsmanlike manner) is rather dickish as well. It's not like Derp has some kind of agenda against invaders.

No it's not. That's how the game was fucking designed to be like. Want co-op? Then you have to risk getting invaded. Don't like that? Well bad luck, go play another game that's Co-op only.
Just because that's not what you want in the game and it's not designed for your specific taste doesn't give you the right to screw up the online experience of other people.

So what? If I don't like how battlefield forces me to unlock weapons and I like videogames that give you everything from the start I should just go and use cheats and aimbots to get tons of kills and unlock stuff faster?
Hey, I have no agenda against other players, I just want to unlock everything fast so it's ok, right?

 

[border]

Well for one thing, he isn't lagging them to force a disconnect, he is killing without them having the ability to fight back. Keep in mind that invasions are a core mechanic in these games, and people who engage in them are playing by the rules. There are covenants that reward players for successfully invading and killing other players, so most of the time when you get invaded, people aren't just trying to screw with you, they are trying to work towards a goal in their own game (and they might want a fair fight as well).

Are there rewards for fending off invaders? Is the person lagging out invaders enjoying any progression advantage other than a quick resolution to PVP?

Would forcing a disconnect be an acceptable solution?

 

[Correctomundo]

Please tell me how I'm not playing Dark Souls the right way because when I get invaded, I turn my back to the invader and let them kill me.

Jesus fuck, it might make me have to work a little harder to get back to where I was and they get something out of it, but I'm not giving them their "fair fight". Easy souls. Right. Now get the fuck on and let me continue trying to summon my son's character.

 

[Derpcrawler]

Are there rewards for fending off invaders? Is the person lagging out invaders enjoying any progression advantage other than a quick resolution to PVP?

Would forcing a disconnect be an acceptable solution?

You don't really, I am disconnecting them not for the rewards, I am actually actively avoiding PvP hotspots to minimize invasions. Thing is, I wouldn't even have to do this, if it was optional.

First Dark Souls on PC had a mod, where only people from your friend list could connect with you for PvP or for co-op. Made life so much easier.

What an absolute idiot.
More PC games need a perma ban feature.

Ban for what, for not perfect internet? For all intents and purposes it might be great firewall of china doing packet inspection resulting in lag and packet drops. So it will never happen, I will keep disconnecting or lagging out people who are actively trying to invade me outside of PvP hotspots.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

You don't really, I am disconnecting them not for the rewards.

Invasion are fucking annoying in Dark Souls, I want to co-op, but I don't want to PvP. I had to resort to UTP/TCP lag switch to lag out the invaders and kill them quickly, since it's all P2P based. And if I would just D/C them, then in future it would be harder to find people to help or get help. So I let red/gray scumbags suffer.

You are not disconnecting them, by your own post you admit you do not disconnect them.

I am not surprised a cheater is also a liar.

 

[Fbh]

You don't really, I am disconnecting them not for the rewards, I am actually actively avoiding PvP hotspots to minimize invasions. Thing is, I wouldn't even have to do this, if it was optional.

First Dark Souls on PC had a mod, where only people from your friend list could connect with you for PvP or for co-op. Made life so much easier.

Ban for what, for not perfect internet? For all intents and purposes it might be great firewall of china doing packet inspection resulting in lag and packet drops. So it will never happen, I will keep disconnecting or lagging out people who are actively trying to invade me outside of PvP hotspots.

Ban for cheating.

 

[Mohasus]

Sad to see how many people have fun ruining others'.

 

[Bergerac]

What kind of person owns a lag switch?

What kind of person invades another's game to fuck it up?

 

[Booshka]

You are not disconnecting them, by your own post you admit you do not disconnect them.

I am not surprised a cheater is also a liar.

Wouldn't be surprised if he was also farming/ganking invaders with his buddies while lag-switching. I've heard the tired excuse of people cheating, disconnecting, or lagging on purpose just once, or because they are just trying to beat the level. Then I proceed to invade them again hours later, a day later, and they are doing the same shit. I've called people out on it, and gotten a lot of salty rage trash talk messages back.

Most of the cheaters I have invaded are full of shit and try to lie for a while, when they finally get caught out, they either go silent, or froth at the mouth raging with messages.

 

[Derpcrawler]

You are not disconnecting them, by your own post you admit you do not disconnect them.

I am not surprised a cheater is also a liar.

So much salt, you are one salty individual.

I try not to disconnect them, but sometimes they lose too much packets and D/C.

Ban for cheating.

Yeah... no. Can be anything, shitty connection between you and host, shitty ISP, shitty peering between your ISPs, faulty hardware on either end, or lag switch. All behave the same - packet drops and increased latency.

As I said, 0% chance for any ban. Considering people are blatantly using trainers and save editors online in both PvP and co-op and not getting banned, I don't think that lagging will make me banned either.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Wouldn't be surprised if he was also farming/ganking invaders with his buddies while lag-switching. I've heard the tired excuse of people cheating, disconnecting, or lagging on purpose just once, or because they are just trying to beat the level. Then I proceed to invade them again hours later, a day later, and they are doing the same shit. I've called people out on it, and gotten a lot of salty rage trash talk messages back.

Most of the cheaters I have invaded are full of shit and try to lie for a while, when they finally get caught out, they either go silent, or froth at the mouth raging with messages.

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[JudgmentJay]

What kind of person invades another's game to fuck it up?

A person playing a video game by the rules the developers set in place probably.

 

[Derpcrawler]

Wouldn't be surprised if he was also farming/ganking invaders with his buddies while lag-switching. I've heard the tired excuse of people cheating, disconnecting, or lagging on purpose just once, or because they are just trying to beat the level. Then I proceed to invade them again hours later, a day later, and they are doing the same shit. I've called people out on it, and gotten a lot of salty rage trash talk messages back.

Most of the cheaters I have invaded are full of shit and try to lie for a while, when they finally get caught out, they either go silent, or froth at the mouth raging with messages.

You are in thread that discuss how forced PvP is bad, with me giving example of how stupid forced PvP is, to the degree that I have to use mods and network tools to avoid it and now you tell me I am all for PvP and ganking people? Yeah... no. Usually people who gank while using trainers/save edits/lag switches are easily googled with salty threads from victims popping up here and there. I don't PvP at all, I don't invade, don't duel, and don't go through PvP hotspots.

Last time I PvP'd was DS1. That's it, and after some time it became shit anyway, with lag fest/people using Jtags/etc.

 

[DesertFox]

Hmm, judging by this thread I really missed out by not giving ME3 multiplayer a chance.

I just got sick of being screwed by that stupid random reward system. All I wanted was a new rifle, and instead I got useless crap over and over again. Didn't take too much of that for me to put it down for good.

 

[Puruzi]

Does it actually matter how the developers want you to play? When you buy it, you play the way you want to, I personally wouldn't give a shit about what the devs want. If you pay your money, you play the way you want.

 

[ship it]

Invasion are fucking annoying in Dark Souls, I want to co-op, but I don't want to PvP. I had to resort to UTP/TCP lag switch to lag out the invaders and kill them quickly, since it's all P2P based. And if I would just D/C them, then in future it would be harder to find people to help or get help. So I let red/gray scumbags suffer.

you are a bad person. I mean just play in offline mode damn.

Assuming you are playing coop, you would be at an advantage anyway.

 

[DorkyMohr]

Does it actually matter how the developers want you to play? When you buy it, you play the way you want to, I personally wouldn't give a shit about what the devs want. If you pay your money, you play the way you want.

Ever hear of an EULA?

 

[GulAtiCa]

Does it actually matter how the developers want you to play? When you buy it, you play the way you want to, I personally wouldn't give a shit about what the devs want. If you pay your money, you play the way you want.

So online cheating is ok to you then?

 

[JudgmentJay]

You are in thread that discuss how forced PvP is bad, with me giving example of how stupid forced PvP is, to the degree that I have to use mods and network tools to avoid it and now you tell me I am all for PvP and ganking people? Yeah... no. Usually people who gank while using trainers/save edits/lag switches are easily googled with salty threads from victims popping up here and there. I don't PvP at all, I don't invade, don't duel, and don't go through PvP hotspots.

It's pretty amazing how you're playing a victim card here. Like you have no choice but to lag people out.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

So much salt, you are one salty individual.

I am not salty enough, however, to start cheating after I die to an invader, like you.

 

[Puruzi]

Ever hear of an EULA?

He's not hacking or modifying the game or anything. It's lag. Can't really do shit about that.

 

[ship it]

I am not salty enough, however, to start cheating after I die to an invader, like you.

yea. its the first time I wanted to use the word coward to describe someone based on their approach to a game.

"I like strategy games, but I hate limited resources, so just gimmie a code for infinite mining crystals so I can spam stuff."

 

[Derpcrawler]

It's pretty amazing how you're playing a victim card here. Like you have no choice but to lag people out.

Please tell me with straight face, this is enjoyable PvP experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhlAf0doebw


Because for me, at least half of invasions look like that. I would prefer not to waste my time and hook up with my buddies to farm Boss Souls for them and play for fun.

 

[-Ryn]

No it's not. That's how the game was fucking designed to be like. Want co-op? Then you have to risk getting invaded. Don't like that? Well bad luck, go play another game that's Co-op only.

Yes it is. Name calling, ban begging, and just dog piling them because they want to play with their friends without being interrupted is dickery. The guy likes Dark Souls and just doesn't want to participate in a certain aspect of it.

Tough titties for the oh so horribly wronged invaders who are deprived of a target. I don't know of any other game like Dark Souls with co op. That aside, that still wouldn't be Dark Souls which this Derp obviously thoroughly enjoys.

Just because that's not what you want in the game and it's not designed for your specific taste doesn't give you the right to screw up the online experience of other people.

So what? If I don't like how battlefield forces me to unlock weapons and I like videogames that give you everything from the start I should just go and use cheats and aimbots to get tons of kills and unlock stuff faster?
Hey, I have no agenda against other players, I just want to unlock everything fast so it's ok, right?

If you wanted to unlock everything immediately I couldn't care less. Not hurting my experience. You aren't breaking the game to win. Though aimbot isn't in any way apart of the game so that doesn't make any sense. This guy is just trying to get other people out of his game as quickly as possible without having to start over again himself.

Dark Souls isn't a multiplayer shooter with playlists though. You can't just quit out of a match and go play somewhere else with your friends because connecting with each other in the first place is an ass and a half. It's a neat system in need of improvements.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

He's not hacking or modifying the game or anything. It's lag. Can't really do shit about that.

He's fucking up a game's multiplayer.

Next time you're playing any sort of multiplayer and people start ruining it with cheats and hacks, remember you just condoned it.

 

[Deitus]

He's not hacking or modifying the game or anything. It's lag. Can't really do shit about that.

Considering he is intentionally forcing the game to lag in a way that gives him an advantage, there is quite a bit he could do about it. Like for instance, not doing it. Lag switching in Dark Souls is just as much cheating as it is in Halo.

 

[Puruzi]

He's fucking up a game's multiplayer.

Next time you're playing any sort of multiplayer and people start ruining it with cheats and hacks, remember you just condoned it.

If someone starts hacking in a multiplayer game, I leave. It's not rocket science.

Considering he is intentionally forcing the game to lag in a way that gives him an advantage, there is quite a bit he could do about it. Like for instance, not doing it. Lag switching in Dark Souls is just as much cheating as it is in Halo.

I'm not saying Derpcrawler can't do anything about it. The fuck? That wouldn't even make any sense.

 

[SeventhSon]

Please tell me with straight face, this is enjoyable PvP experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhlAf0doebw


Because for me, at least half of invasions look like that. I would prefer not to waste my time and hook up with my buddies to farm Boss Souls for them and play for fun.

 

[Booshka]

You are in thread that discuss how forced PvP is bad, with me giving example of how stupid forced PvP is, to the degree that I have to use mods and network tools to avoid it and now you tell me I am all for PvP and ganking people? Yeah... no. Usually people who gank while using trainers/save edits/lag switches are easily googled with salty threads from victims popping up here and there. I don't PvP at all, I don't invade, don't duel, and don't go through PvP hotspots.

Last time I PvP'd was DS1. That's it, and after some time it became shit anyway, with lag fest/people using Jtags/etc.


Because for me, at least half of invasions look like that. I would prefer not to waste my time and hook up with my buddies to farm Boss Souls for them and play for fun.

In Demon's and Dark Souls 1, PvP is not forced, it's your choice whether or not you open yourself up for Invasion.

Sorry that majority of games are laggy for you, but you should blame that on the Pacific Ocean instead of the people invading you. Majority of players are at least an Ocean away from you, so it is obviously going to be laggy. Invaders have a ton of experience PvPing with lag, so they know how to play through it, and in some cases, abuse it, because how it affects lock-on strafing and the hit registration for backstabs. So, instead of spending time learning the game, you spend your time lagging people out.

I won't defend other cheaters invading you with modded builds/stats, and a lot of lower level Dickwraith invaders with shitty hornet BS builds are assholes too, but cheating with Network manipulation to counter them is some bullshit.

 

[Rumble19]

Well this thread really took a turn. Lag switches are cheating, simple as that.

 

[Shredderi]

I do not condone using measures that technically amount to cheating. I understand the guy's intentions as I too hate the invasion system or the likes of it. My solution? Offline mode. But this thread is about disliking this kind of design choices. If someone tells you that they don't like how a game or an aspect of it is designed, it means that they don't like how a game or an aspect of it is designed. Saying "but that's how it was meant to be played by the developers" does nothing to "combat" that opinion. The person disliking the design choice knows that it was designed to be played like that. That is the problem for the person disliking it.

 

[ship it]

not sure what is worse, the justified lag pedaling or the apathetic "meh I just leave" response.


nah both equally suck.

 

[JimmyRustler]

I have Dark Souls but have never started playing it because I have limited time to play and don't want to have my exploration of the game interrupted by some guy who will apparently roll all over the place, outplay me, and kill me.

I may have time to "get gud" against the game's enemies, but nowhere near enough time to beat the 13 year olds with empty afternoons.

The game was a thoughtful, but ultimately useless gift because of how they implemented multiplayer.

You van also finish the game in hollow form you know...

 

[JudgmentJay]

Please tell me with straight face, this is enjoyable PvP experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhlAf0doebw


Because for me, at least half of invasions look like that. I would prefer not to waste my time and hook up with my buddies to farm Boss Souls for them and play for fun.

Do your co-op sessions look like that as well?

 

[poodpick]

Please tell me with straight face, this is enjoyable PvP experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhlAf0doebw


Because for me, at least half of invasions look like that. I would prefer not to waste my time and hook up with my buddies to farm Boss Souls for them and play for fun.

Every time someone invades you you're doing that to them. You're such a hypocrite.

 

[paperspace]

~nvm

 

[SeventhSon]

Invaders have a ton of experience PvPing with lag, so they know how to play through it, and in some cases, abuse it, because how it affects lock-on strafing and the hit registration for backstabs.

You're not making a sympathetic case for invaders.

 

[Derpcrawler]

Do your co-op sessions look like that as well?

No, because my friends are all in China and Hong Kong (2-15ms). If I join someone I don't know, yes. Or if someone joins us and he/she is not from Asia.

Co-op looks like this most of the time, unless it's Asian host, but 99% of the time it's not, since people in Asia mostly play that game on PS3, not on 360 or PC. In all my time with both gamesa I met only 4 people from Asia, 1 from China, 2 from Japan and 1 from Korea. That's it.

As I said, game doesn't take latency in matchmaking consideration at all.

 

[Deitus]

I'm not saying Derpcrawler can't do anything about it. The fuck? That wouldn't even make any sense.

I don't get the point you were trying to make then. You were saying lag is unavoidable in response to someone suggesting there are rules when it comes to online play. Lag may be unavoidable, but that has nothing to do with intentionally using lag to cheat.

The fact that it's harder to catch this method of cheating doesn't make it any more acceptable.

 

[Fbh]

Yes it is. Name calling, ban begging, and just dog piling them because they want to play with their friends without being interrupted is dickery. The guy likes Dark Souls and just doesn't want to participate in a certain aspect of it.

Tough titties for the oh so horribly wronged invaders who are deprived of a target. I don't know of any other game like Dark Souls with co op. That aside, that still wouldn't be Dark Souls which this Derp obviously thoroughly enjoys.


If you wanted to unlock everything immediately I couldn't care less. Not hurting my experience. You aren't breaking the game to win. Though aimbot isn't in any way apart of the game so that doesn't make any sense. This guy is just trying to get other people out of his game as quickly as possible without having to start over again himself.

Dark Souls isn't a multiplayer shooter with playlists though. You can't just quit out of a match and go play somewhere else with your friends because connecting with each other in the first place is an ass and a half. It's a neat system in need of improvements.

So you are ok with people cheating and hurting the online experience of others as long as it's not to win.?

Lol. what a joke

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

yea. its the first time I wanted to use the word coward to describe someone based on their approach to a game.

"I like strategy games, but I hate limited resources, so just gimmie a code for infinite mining crystals so I can spam stuff."

"It's bad design that the game requires me to be good at pvp. I will use an aimbot"

 

[Puruzi]

I don't get the point you were trying to make then. You were saying lag is unavoidable in response to someone suggesting there are rules when it comes to online play. Lag may be unavoidable, but that has nothing to do with intentionally using lag to cheat.

The fact that it's harder to catch this method of cheating doesn't make it any more acceptable.

The point I was making is that he's playing the way he wants to, and the EULA can't do anything in this scenario.

 

[Booshka]

You're not making a sympathetic case for invaders.

I don't expect sympathy or empathy for Souls invaders, just arguing against cheating. Every online game has its own quirks with latency, long time players learn how to play with it. A meta game around playing with latency has been a thing ever since people started playing online videogames. Souls is no different.

 

[JudgmentJay]

No, because my friends are all in China and Hong Kong (2-15ms). If I join someone I don't know, yes. Or if someone joins us and he/she is not from Asia.

Co-op looks like this most of the time, unless it's Asian host, but 99% of the time it's not, since people in Asia mostly play that game on PS3, not on 360 or PC. In all my time with both gamesa I met only 4 people from Asia, 1 from China, 2 from Japan and 1 from Korea. That's it.

As I said, game doesn't take latency in matchmaking consideration at all.

How about you use this then instead of shitting on other people's game?

http://www.nexusmods.com/darksouls/mods/858/

 

[phoenix296]

Does it actually matter how the developers want you to play? When you buy it, you play the way you want to, I personally wouldn't give a shit about what the devs want. If you pay your money, you play the way you want.

I have fun aimbotting in CS. Why do I keep getting banned? I paid money!

 

[Derpcrawler]

So you are ok with people cheating and hurting the online experience of others as long as it's not to win.?

Lol. what a joke

Lagging assholes connecting to me on dial-up and making "great PvP experience" look like video I linked before are hurting my online experience, instead of coping with that shit, I just make those encounters as fast as possible.