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[MikeyB]

Maybe I'm confused... it has been a long day. In his original post he said that he lags people out and then kills them. How is that not "using lag to win battles?" He is using lag to win PvP battles.

Intent matters, in my mind. Somebody trying to boost their k/d ratio by lagging people out is different than someone trying to end an encounter to move on with the rest of the game.

That said, even though I share his sentiments about the game design, I don't think the lag switch is a good thing. Harming another person's experience so that you can play the game your way seems selfish.

In any case, in a thread of what people think ought to be the case, citing what is the case is unpersuasive. is=/=ought.

 

[Aikidoka]

He lags them out and then kills them. How is that not ruining someone's game experience?

Because invasions are not that hard to come by and it only wastes like 1-2 minutes if that of their time. I'm sure if you are a really die-hard pvp-er it's a bit annoying but it's really not that big of a set-back.

 

[JudgmentJay]

As I said, I have 100% both DS1 and DS2, on both PC and Xbox. After couple of weeks when player base nose dives all you get connected to, are people on dial up. Not fun, so I make that shit as painless as possible for both me and invader. I had max devotion to Dragon/Cat covenant on 360. It's just wasn't fun when both of you jump around and backstab face.

Deal with it.

Weird. I just finished a few playthroughs on PC. I did countless invasion (both invading and being invaded) and co-op sessions. Nobody was laggy. Nobody was cheating. Only 1 or 2 low level twinks.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

He's being a jerk and ruining the experience of the people who are being jerks trying to ruin his experience in the end though. I feel like the option to only allow co-op joining would be a welcome feature to try and avoid this problem.

People calling him bad and telling him to git gud he'd probably happily lag switch out of his game when they gleefully would kill him otherwise and laugh at how much fun they were having at his expense. I probably would.

It's pretty simple. Don't play Dark Souls if being invaded is 'ruining' the experience. It's an intended gameplay element.

 

[Orochinagis]

I was trying out Warframe on the PS4, going through the solo missions. But, halway through one of the missions, this random player joins my instance and proceeds to mow down the rest of the enemies up to the end. Then, when I got back to my ship, they were still in my "party". I thought this was the kind of game to have strict multiplayer and single-player divides, but I guess I was wrong.

Then, there is something like the human and hollow system in the Dark Souls series. There are benefits to being human, such as the ability to summon players for assistance, but often you may be invaded by players who have no qualms about mowing you down.

I do not mind such systems most of the time. I just want to be informed about their functions and be given the option to turn it off when possible.

What do you think?

Set your party in private.

 

[phoenix296]

The balance of accepting co-op help in Souls is that you run the risk of being invaded. This is by design, you make that choice of accepting help which makes the pve aspect of the game much much easier by also accepting the risk that you will be invaded.

 

[Deadbeat]

Maybe I'm confused... it has been a long day. In his original post he said that he lags people out and then kills them. How is that not "using lag to win battles?" He is using lag to win PvP battles.

Championing that you are killing people with this wicked strategy vs getting people to fuck off that are in your way. Hes not squatting in popular areas farming invaders for fun.

 

[TheTurboFD]

Nah, I wanna play it, as other dudes. They even bought PS4s for it and other guy already trying out DD-WRT based script to prevent invasions or at least D/C them on DS1 for his PS3. But keep those delicious salty tears flowing.

I mean wouldn't it be easier to just introduce PvE covenant, which already exist as Sunbros, instead of forcing shitty cookie cutter dominated face backstabs filled PvP?

No one is salty, everyone is just amazed about how stupid you sound.

 

[JudgmentJay]

Championing that you are killing people with this wicked strategy vs getting people to fuck off that are in your way. Hes not squatting in popular areas farming invaders for fun.

It doesn't matter what the situation is. He's cheating. That is the bottom line.

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

Sorry, but invasions are part of the game. It's not bad design, you're just a bad player. If you don't want invasions you should be playing offline, staying undead or playing a completely different game.

Invasions in concept aren't a bad idea, but the implementation of them in DS1 is horrific. For a game so flexible in it's gameplay and choice of play styles, the one area in which the game NEEDED to be restricted and balanced, it's PvP matchmaking, is half arsed, and close to non-existant. The whole risk/reward association of the system that everybody goes on about when unhollowing may have been valid in the first few months of the games release where everybody was on even ground and didn't know how to get the overpowered gear early on in the game, but as more and more people found ways to get highly over-levelled gear for their current level and area, the huge gaping flaws in the games PvP got more and more noticable.

Unhollowing in a huge majority of the areas now usually just ends up in a player who hasn't specced in a certain way getting absolutely slaughtered by over-geared twinks. The "Reward" factor of unhollowing is almost all but gone now in the game. From Software clearly weren't prepared for people gaming the system, and it showed after the first few months of the games release. And it looks like From didn't even attempt to fix it. A shame.

Dark Souls is a firm but fair game, but this particular part of the game doesn't follow the same mantra as the rest of the game.

 

[DorkyMohr]

Because invasions are not that hard to come by and it only wastes like 1-2 minutes if that of their time. I'm sure if you are a really die-hard pvp-er it's a bit annoying but it's really not that big of a set-back.

Getting invaded in the first place is not as big of a set-back as some people are making it out to be. No where near warranting a lag switch setup.

 

[Derpcrawler]

Weird. I just finished a few playthroughs on PC. I did countless invasion (both invading and being invaded) and co-op sessions. Nobody was laggy. Nobody was cheating. Only 1 or 2 low level twinks.

I am playing from China on PC and 360, I am lucky to get someone from West Coast US, most of the time it's lagfest from EU and middle east due to time zones being closer.

As I said, how new covenant for PvE a bad idea? Following your logic, if it was bad, almost no one would join it, but something telling me that all PvP bottomfeeders on their twinks are being pre-preemptively salty. There is a reason I don't get invaded at all on my SL501 character and all the time on fresh character I started to help out friend. Steadily on invasion CD.

 

[fredrancour]

Yeah...I kinda agree with this sentiment. I really wish there were more options on how to experience the DS games other than offline or PvP and co-op. I very much dislike being forced into MP when I'm not in the mood.

I just don't understand this notion that it is somehow not OK to want to play DS without PvP on all the time. It's like if I don't want you screwing over my game, I'm somehow screwing over your game? And I like PvP...when I feel like it.

I'm not sure how I feel about the cheating device (which is what it is), but there is a part of me that understands it. Unwanted PvP is sort of like phone soliciting--you get what you get. It is certainly unsportsmanlike, but then again formal competition should be agreed to by both parties.

Because the integrated nature of dark souls' online features doesn't make it any more accommodating to people who love the idea of invasions than those who hate the idea. It's not really "fucking with another person's game" because it's an in-built feature of the game. How are they supposed to know the person that they've been randomly matched with dearly wishes the feature could be turned off? It's easier to side with the person who's expecting other people to play the game as-advertised, rather than the person who wishes others could read their mind.

It would be better for everybody if from would add separate toggles for pvp and co-op so that nobody has to be forcefully matched with somebody who is attempting to play a different game than them.

 

[kpaadet]

He's being a jerk and ruining the experience of the people who are being jerks trying to ruin his experience in the end though. I feel like the option to only allow co-op joining would be a welcome feature to try and avoid this problem.

People calling him bad and telling him to git gud he'd probably happily lag switch out of his game when they gleefully would kill him otherwise and laugh at how much fun they were having at his expense.

Are you implying all invaders just want to greif? Get a gank squad going if your so afraid, jeez some of these excuses I don't think I can find a small enough violin for you guys.

 

[DeaviL]

Championing that you are killing people with this wicked strategy vs getting people to fuck off that are in your way. Hes not squatting in popular areas farming invaders for fun.

Let me just take a page from Derpcrawlers book and say:
So?

His intend doesn't matter when it screws up the game for others, it's not like his intent is anything grand.
He's just looking out for number 1 and screwing others that meet him on his path.

 

[Primethius]

Because invasions are not that hard to come by and it only wastes like 1-2 minutes if that of their time. I'm sure if you are a really die-hard pvp-er it's a bit annoying but it's really not that big of a set-back.

So because its 1-2 minutes, its not a ruining their experience?

We're justifying cheating online now. Yea, okay, I'm out.

 

[JudgmentJay]

I am playing from China on PC and 360, I am lucky to get someone from West Coast US, most of the time it's lagfest from EU and middle east due to time zones being closer.

As I said, how new covenant for PvE a bad idea? Following your logic, if it was bad, almost no one would join it, but something telling me that all PvP bottomfeeders on their twinks are being pre-preemptively salty. There is a reason I don't get invaded at all on my SL501 character and all the time on fresh character I started to help out friend. Steadily on invasion CD.

There is no upper cap on invasions. A soul level 1 twink is just as likely to invade your soul level 2 character as they are your soul level 501 character.

 

[Daingurse]

Played Offline pretty much exclusively with Watch Dogs, all the online stuff annoyed me.

 

[Veritigo_X]

I am playing from China on PC and 360, I am lucky to get someone from West Coast US, most of the time it's lagfest from EU and middle east due to time zones being closer.

As I said, how new covenant for PvE a bad idea? Following your logic, if it was bad, almost no one would join it, but something telling me that all PvP bottomfeeders on their twinks are being pre-preemptively salty. There is a reason I don't get invaded at all on my SL501 character and all the time on fresh character I started to help out friend. Steadily on invasion CD.

Or maybe because more people have lower leveled characters compared to a ridiculously high leveled character. I play Souls all the time, making new characters that are specifically low leveled and I hardly run into twinkers. And if I do...

I really hope you aren't getting Bloodborne.

 

[inky]

Mass Effect 3 in the first few months required multiplayer play time in order to get the best ending in the single-player game. Was lame as hell.

It would've mattered if there was such a thing as a "best ending", which there wasn't. Every ending was the worst ending. Plus I'm pretty sure you just needed to do some more shit in game to accumulate points or galactic readiness or whatever that shit was called.

I was more annoyed that multiplayer maps were re-purposed as hoard missions in the single player campaign. That was fucking lame.

 

[Producer]

Invasion are fucking annoying in Dark Souls, I want to co-op, but I don't want to PvP. I had to resort to UTP/TCP lag switch to lag out the invaders and kill them quickly, since it's all P2P based. And if I would just D/C them, then in future it would be harder to find people to help or get help. So I let red/gray scumbags suffer.

lmao

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

There is a reason I don't get invaded at all on my SL501 character and all the time on fresh character I started to help out friend. Steadily on invasion CD.

At least on DS1, very few people pvp'd beyond 120 slvl. It was a sort of communnity agreed standard to make it easier to find each other.

You are justifying your cheating with bullshit.

 

[CambriaRising]

Invasion are fucking annoying in Dark Souls, I want to co-op, but I don't want to PvP. I had to resort to UTP/TCP lag switch to lag out the invaders and kill them quickly, since it's all P2P based. And if I would just D/C them, then in future it would be harder to find people to help or get help. So I let red/gray scumbags suffer.

Yes. THEY are the scumbags here. Totally not you, cheater.

 

[joecanada]

It's not anywhere close to being warranted. There is an option. It's called offline mode.

apparently theres not if you want to co-op , but yeah if there's other options as mentioned above then you should use those.

 

[DeaviL]

We're really sorry about Derpcrawler, Deft Beck.
Apparently even forums aren't always that great of a multiplayer experience.

 

[Aikidoka]

Getting invaded in the first place is not as big of a set-back as some people are making it out to be. No where near warranting a lag switch setup.

So because its 1-2 minutes, its not a ruining their experience.

We're justifying cheating online now. Yea, okay, I'm out.

I agree that it's cheating, and I absolutely love the invasion aspect of Dark Souls and think its a shame to go through the trouble to avoid it.
All I'm putting forward is that what he's doing isn't really worth all the hate he's getting for it - in the grand scheme of things, it's at most a passing annoyance. I've always found the Lawful Good Paladin approach a bit wanting.

 

[SeventhSon]

I was more annoyed that multiplayer maps were re-purposed as hoard missions in the single player campaign. That was fucking lame.

And didn't eavesdropping missions send you back to the same horde maps several times?

 

[Deified Data]

He's being a jerk and ruining the experience of the people who are being jerks trying to ruin his experience in the end though.

I can't speak for everyone but, yeah, that's not why people invade. If you're playing a series that pioneered this kind of competitive play and you're online to boot, it's not an unreasonable assumption that the person you're invading is enjoying the challenge every bit as you are. Otherwise why would they be playing online? When I invade someone I want to have fun and I hope they have fun, too. I think most people, invader or invaded (because all invaders get invaded too), would share that sentiment.

That said, I don't think asking for a PVE covenant that prevents or mitigates PVP would be a bad thing. Against the spirit of the series? Maybe. But detrimental to anyone else's experience in any way, shape, or form? I don't think so. DS2 tried this with Way of Blue by summoning blue phantoms to help you if you're invaded, and it could have been cool if it actually worked. But keep in mind that most Souls games are balanced in such a way that the opportunity to summon help versus the risk of being invaded is accounted for in world design and enemy placement. And given that From is generally more interested in presenting their own vision of what a good game should be as opposed to acquiescing to popular demand, they likely wouldn't let you forgo invasions but keep co-op completely intact. I can imagine reducing the amount of players you can summon to help you, or giving them timers for how long they can appear in your world. I think that would be a fair compromise.

 

[farisr]

One of the reasons my Bloodborne hype died down is because of invasions. I want to play online co-op, but don't want to play pvp. Honestly may just skip the game altogether because of this.

 

[RenegadeXV8]

I don't understand the people that want co-op all the time in Souls games but zero PvP.

That's essentially like saying you want the game to be exponentially easier and have even less risk of dying.

At what point do you just admit the series isn't for you?

 

[nded]

I wonder what it would be like if FROM got rid of the black/white phantom system and just had all visiting players able help or hinder according to their whim.

 

[MikeyB]

At what point do you just admit the series isn't for you?

Holy smokes. The thread is literally a question about how people would like games to be designed differently. Your response asserts that the series is designed the way it is designed. It does not follow. It is a non sequitur.

 

[Brashnir]

I can't speak for everyone but, yeah, that's not why people invade. If you're playing a series that pioneered this kind of competitive play and you're online to boot, it's not an unreasonable assumption that the person you're invading is enjoying the challenge every bit as you are. Otherwise why would they be playing online? When I invade someone I want to have fun and I hope they have fun, too. I think most people, invader or invaded (because all invaders get invaded too), would share that sentiment.

While I'm sure some people are in it for a challenge or a fair fight, I never once got invaded in Demon's Souls by a person who wasn't using a scraping spear - a pure griefing weapon.

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

I don't understand the people that want co-op all the time in Souls games but zero PvP.

That's essentially like saying you want the game to be exponentially easier and have even less risk of dying.

At what point do you just admit the series isn't for you?

As somebody who's put well over 300 hours into the game solo with multiple characters, why would I NOT want the game to allow me to hook up with my buds both new and experienced unhindered? You know, take the time to explore and find new and interesting things together, and help ease new players into the game who want to give it a try, and all of the other wonderful and different ways to experience the game without the threat of constant invasions from twinks and over-geared players?

A bunch of people I know who've bought DS1 in a sale and played through with me in co-op have went on to play the game multiple times solo, finding new stuff on every single playthrough and having a hell of a good time in the process. Co-op, when there's no interruptions in every new area you enter, is a great way to get people into the game long-term. A simple covenant that focused on co-op and eliminated the need for PvP being active would've been a great way to get peoples feet wet in the first Souls game, and get them used to it.

The designers' "original vision" isn't always the best. It may not be the "proper" way to play the game, but this approach with a dozen of my friends got them hardcore into the series, where as having no co-op wouldn't have gotten them into it. Even they admit having no way around PvP in co-op apart from Disconnecting and retrying co-op or playing single player hollow is bullshit. Heck, some of my 360 owning friends who I played through the game with even bought a PS3 to play Demon Souls. That's a good thing

 

[John Kowalski]

people still mad at dark souls lmao

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I don't understand the people that want co-op all the time in Souls games but zero PvP.

That's essentially like saying you want the game to be exponentially easier and have even less risk of dying.

At what point do you just admit the series isn't for you?

I don't do PvP. I don't enjoy it. I stayed mostly hallow, maybe co-op summoned here and there, though rarely, but Dark Souls was an enjoyable single player experience; though the random messages are kind of neat and seeing the ghosts of other players die in an area is cool to make it feel alive.

I got 130+ hours on my first playthrough this way, and it was great still. I can't see the problem if other people don't like PvP as I don't either and still genuinely love the game.

 

[King Gilga]

Invasion are fucking annoying in Dark Souls, I want to co-op, but I don't want to PvP. I had to resort to UTP/TCP lag switch to lag out the invaders and kill them quickly, since it's all P2P based. And if I would just D/C them, then in future it would be harder to find people to help or get help. So I let red/gray scumbags suffer.

That's hilarious.

So essentially, in a way.. You are cheating just to win... In this scenario, the red invaders aren't the "cunts".. I really hope you realize how horrible to do something like this is...

Who cares? All they lose is a small amount of time and an orb.

Go play those then.

Maybe he doesn't want to? He can play what he wants and you have no right to tell him otherwise, even if he's a dirty cheater that should be banned if from actually cared about the MP in their game.

I invade people to be a dick to them, him being a dick back isn't really a big deal. If he was using this lag switch in the arena or when summon reds/dragons, that'd be fucked, but you're invaded, do whatever the fuck you want. I've even encountered literally immortal people in DS2 when invading, big deal, I just leave so they don't get the satisfaction of killing me.

 

[Apathy]

Avoid them, not win. As I said, if there was a covenant that would only allow PvE, I would join it. I already explained my reason, which are in fact with theme of the thread, but you numb heads keep trying to tell me that it was how game was designed. Well duh, this is a bad design, it needs to be changed.

Man you really need to learn to have a conversion with others like an adult. Between your excessive use of salty, insulting people and adding tard as a derogatory suffix you sound like you're 12. You also need to learn that bad design are not bad because you don't like them. That's not what makes a design bad (as in your opinion is not a fact).

 

[SliChillax]

Mass Effect 3 in the first few months required multiplayer play time in order to get the best ending in the single-player game. Was lame as hell.

What the hell are people still this miss informed even after 3 years the game came out? That is totally untrue.

 

[Siegmeyer]

I don't understand the people that want co-op all the time in Souls games but zero PvP.

That's essentially like saying you want the game to be exponentially easier and have even less risk of dying.

At what point do you just admit the series isn't for you?

1000 times this. The Souls games are an absolute cakewalk in Co-Op mode, the enemy encounters aren't really designed around fighting more than one protagonist at a time.

Fake edit: I wrote a much longer response but deleted it because I got aggressive and offensive and I don't want to get banned. Basically, alot of the 'fuck invaders' group are mad because the game doesn't bend to their every whim. Don't like it? Play something else or deal with it. And I say this as a rabid Souls fan who doesn't particularly care for invasions.

 

[Derpcrawler]

1000 times this. The Souls games are an absolute cakewalk in Co-Op mode, the enemy encounters aren't really designed around fighting more than one protagonist at a time.

Fake edit: I wrote a much longer response but deleted it because I got aggressive and offensive and I don't want to get banned. Basically, alot of the 'fuck invaders' group are mad because the game doesn't bend to their every whim. Don't like it? Play something else or deal with it. And I say this as a rabid Souls fan who doesn't particularly care for invasions.

Read the thread title and OP. Now get out...

 

[crazyrabbits]

I mean, not really. Presuming you did most side quests you did not need to play MP. Maybe only needed if you played like just the main story missions and nothing else.

Incorrect. Even with maximum metagaming (that is, getting optimal results through all 3 games), you were still short roughly 250 Total Military Strength points. You had to play the multiplayer or a tie-in app in order to see the "best" ending.

What the hell are people still this miss informed even after 3 years the game came out? That is totally untrue.

Ahem...

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12695580/5

It was changed in the EC so the minimum requirements were lowered (from 3800 TMS to 3100 TMS, if I recall).

 

[Gator86]

I don't do PvP. I don't enjoy it. I stayed mostly hallow, maybe co-op summoned here and there, though rarely, but Dark Souls was an enjoyable single player experience; though the random messages are kind of neat and seeing the ghosts of other players die in an area is cool to make it feel alive.

I got 130+ hours on my first playthrough this way, and it was great still. I can't see the problem if other people don't like PvP as I don't either and still genuinely love the game.

Yup, the messages and ghosts add to the single-player experience and help me become more immersed in the world. Co-op and PvP do not. Nothing ruins my enjoyment of the game quicker than seeing "You have been invaded by xxx420Bluntz69xxx."

I really don't care if the devs think invasions are an integral part of the game. I don't find them enjoyable or interesting so I just log out when they occur.

 

[motorised mallard]

What the hell are people still this miss informed even after 3 years the game came out? That is totally untrue.

You had to play multiplayer to get your warscore up in order to get the additional plothole 1 second clip.

You could get the minty fresh green ending without the mp though.

On the DS thing, only complain I have is that in 2 you couldn't avoid it without being offline, DS1 was under gfwl when I played it so no online with that. And I really liked both by myself just fine.

 

[Daingurse]

Edit: Double Post

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Read the thread title and OP. Now get out...

OP says nothing about cheaters spouting weak ass bullshit to save face.

Looks like you don't belong, neither.

 

[ShdwDrake]

PC breh. No need for HW lagswitch.

I endured invasions on 360 DS1 enough, they are were great at at the start, when player pool was huge. After that half of invaders would backstab you in the face, because they play from dial up half way around the globe, or were blatant cheaters on JTag with fast roll in elite knight full armor set and tower shield. At that point it's not even annoying, it just down right infuriating.

People who pretend otherwise, are delusional.

I agree with you dude. People invading is annoying as hell. I dunno why we can't have the online turned on but the PVP turned off lol

 

[motorised mallard]

OP says nothing about cheaters spouting weak ass bullshit to save face.

Looks like you don't belong, neither.

Be careful, he might lag-switch your ass.

 

[Derpcrawler]

OP says nothing about cheaters spouting weak ass bullshit to save face.

Looks like you don't belong, neither.

I feed on your tears. I am against forced PvP, tools to disconnect or lag out are just a bandaid. I will use it as long as From Software ignores issue of shitty matchmaking and online infrustructure.

Deal with it.

 

[John Kowalski]

Read the thread title and OP. Now get out...

lol you literally lag invaders so you can have an easy time killing them and you think you still have the right to tell someone to get out?

you gave up your dignity b

it's gone