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Legend of Korra |OT| - Saturday Mornings Just Got Better

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Macka

Member
Not April? That sucks :(

Also, wow:

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Tenzin.png
 

PBalfredo

Member
Excellent. I want HD Korra in my collection, but don't want to take up my precious hard drive space on my laptop with the iTune episodes.
 

Wiseblade

Member
The Legend of Korra Book 1 coming to Blu-ray on July 16th.

http://at.nick.com/10Gwb7x

Not sure it's even been broadcast in the UK yet.
KuGsj.gif

It hasn't. Shows that debuted after have aired, shows that ended months ago are still getting reruns. But we still haven't gotten Korra. It's like Nick don't want my money.

EDIT: Apparently it premiers on the 12th of May. Let's see how that works out.
 

Omikaru

Member
I won't lie, I don't like the box art much at all. But it is Nickelodeon, so I don't know what I was expecting.

Maybe something awesome like this (but not specifically this, because it's artwork for the finale):

 
Why would anyone expect good marketing from Nickelodeon? It's unconscionable that there isn't an ATLA Blu-ray set. Blu-ray doesn't have to be HD, it'd be nice to have all the episodes on a couple of disks, plus they could load it up with bonus features. But, there's not even a collector's edition of the series DVDs. So much potential for licensing for toys, artwork, etc. that they just ignore.
 

Zen

Banned
I just went through Korra in essentially 2 sittings roughly a month after re-watching the original series with my GF and a friend, I knew basically nothing aside from 'it takes place in the future and is more technologically advanced'.

I'm not sure what the general response has been, but I did catch snippets of people saying that they have been disappointed, though that could just be a general impression I've gotten from relatively little exposure. So with that said let me get right to it.

First of all, I think they absolutely made the right decision to make Korra distinct from the original series. The more mature tone with a 1930's esque motif of the world is a great departure from the series that inspired it, and after going through the entire original series, I do get behind a smaller and more intimate story focused primarily in a single location.

In terms of overall flow, I feel like the story worked the best episode to episode during the first half that used professional bending as an anchor episode to episode. It was refreshing to see an Avatar also living her life, it allowed all the characters time to develop organically and gave us a very solid foundation; it's well paced and a refreshingly political story with great give and take between everyone involved.

I love Korra as a character, she's flawed and impulsive but, she like almost every character in the show, feels genuine like the franchise has become known for. It's exhilarating to see a strong, competent, and slightly cocky female lead, I loved seeing portions where she flat out out fought an opponent, and it was clear it wasn't simply her bending that gave her the edge. She is the product of her upbringing and it's great seeing a 'trained' and direct Avatar. I could talk about each character and how much I love them, but it's easier to assume that I like the character unless I complain about them.

So like I mentioned earlier, the show is 10/10 for the fist half due largely to how focused and well constructed it is. The last half of the show suffers a bit by going back, almost completely, to the the implication of the 'large conflict' motif of the original and the sheer amount of all the shoot bang.

I don't necessarily want Korra to be a show that seeks to replicate the scope of the original, nor dos it need to to be engaging. It loses something in the unrelenting explosions of the second half, though it is still undeniably excellent and a great story from beginning to... almost end.

This is where the 12 episode limit comes into play, but not really. There's no reason for 'I love you' and it felt cheap given all the careful nuance from everything before it. Nor was there a reason for Ang to magic the bending back. They simply could have said that Amman had never blood blocked someone as powerful as the Avatar before and it turned out, with great effort, that her bending would return over time. Though it was vague and they may still go this route.

You might say 'well they only had 12 episode to work with' but that doesn't mean they needed to pull 'I love you' or 'here are your powers back!'. They aren't needed in the narrative structure anymore than if they'd been given a 24 episode order. In fact with a 12 episode run you might think that they would have played the ending beats more conservatively. I really hope that the sequel retains the intimate character focus on an independent and capable Korra for a good period of time, like this season, and gives us another slow burn. I really hope that they don't shift too quickly into 'team avatar' ensembles from the very start, and additionally that they don't use 'I love you' to weaken Korra as a character because suddenly she's in a relationship with a man.

So all that said, the show is amazing baring one or two examples of over reaching in the finale, and I can't comprehend an argument that it isn't a worthy successor to the original. It was so refreshing to see them really take risks and show their versatility as a studio. It's a very different world, with a more mature characters and tone all presented with largely a smaller focus than the original. Narrative ties to the original series aside, it's basically an entirely different anime when you compare it to the original, and that takes both balls and skill.
 
I dont really see this more mature tone at all. Tonally the show becomes a joke in the end and most of the characters have very little development, Korra especially. She has everything handed to her on a silver platter in the beginning and it still holds true in the end. Asami and Lin are the only good characters in the show, since they, yknow, their personality and circumstances actually change, but they still dont really hold a candle to anyone in ATLA, even if we were comparing just the first book or just up to The Storm. The strongest part of the series were those initial four episodes.
 

Omikaru

Member
I dont really see this more mature tone at all. Tonally the show becomes a joke in the end and most of the characters have very little development, Korra especially. She has everything handed to her on a silver platter in the beginning and it still holds true in the end. Asami and Lin are the only good characters in the show, since they, yknow, their personality and circumstances actually change, but they still dont really hold a candle to anyone in ATLA, even if we were comparing just the first book or just up to The Storm. The strongest part of the series were those initial four episodes.

Totally agreed. I'm hoping that was because of a limitation of the original miniseries format, and they wanted to tell more than they had reasonable time to. Still not an excuse, mind, but I'd be prepared to accept they were overambitious before they knew they had another three seasons, and just take Book 1 for what it is.

I'm guessing a lot of our issues with character development and such are "fixed" by time Book 2 rolls around, which is why I'm giving the show another chance. But I would've been pretty disappointed if Book 1 was all we got.
 
I'll never see him as anything else.

Whether it's a comedy, action movie, drama or cartoon I'm always ready for his next line to involve busting a prisoners ass open over a pool table.

He played that part too well.

that's like my mom and Sam Rockwell he's Wild Bill forever to her
 
Totally agreed. I'm hoping that was because of a limitation of the original miniseries format, and they wanted to tell more than they had reasonable time to. Still not an excuse, mind, but I'd be prepared to accept they were overambitious before they knew they had another three seasons, and just take Book 1 for what it is.

I'm guessing a lot of our issues with character development and such are "fixed" by time Book 2 rolls around, which is why I'm giving the show another chance. But I would've been pretty disappointed if Book 1 was all we got.
I know I rag on Korra so much, and its really cliche of me to say it, but it is because I care. Cause I know they can do better. Im definitely more optimistic about season 2 since everyone seems to have their own side plot and Korra has to mature now that she's fully realized.
 

Zen

Banned
I dont really see this more mature tone at all. Tonally the show becomes a joke in the end and most of the characters have very little development, Korra especially. She has everything handed to her on a silver platter in the beginning and it still holds true in the end. Asami and Lin are the only good characters in the show, since they, yknow, their personality and circumstances actually change, but they still dont really hold a candle to anyone in ATLA, even if we were comparing just the first book or just up to The Storm. The strongest part of the series were those initial four episodes.

It's blatantly more mature from a stylistic standpoint alone. Most of the story is oriented to politics in a way that AtLA never embraced as wholly as Korra does. What ends up being the central hook of the bad-guy, blood bending, is synonymous with probably the darkest subject matter, and most darkly depicted art in AtLA. Not only are those things present, but you routinely see people screaming from electrocution or begging for mercy in ways that were very very rare in AtLA. This is without mentioning that the core cast are all significantly older or going into the technical side of the art, smaller eyes, more elongated features etc.

There are very many, very dark, works of fiction where the central character doesn't change at all from one book to the next.

Our central protagonist, Ang, never changed much over the course of the series aside from accepting his past guilt. Zukko is the only character to undergo a complete arc in AtLA and everyone had a lot more screen time for focused episodes in AtLA.
 
It's blatantly more mature from a stylistic standpoint alone. Most of the story is oriented to politics in a way that AtLA never embraced as wholly as Korra does. What ends up being the central hook of the bad-guy, blood bending, is synonymous with probably the darkest subject matter, and most darkly depicted art in AtLA. Not only are those things present, but you routinely see people screaming from electrocution or begging for mercy in ways that were very very rare in AtLA. This is without mentioning that the core cast are all significantly older or going into the technical side of the art, smaller eyes, more elongated features etc.

There are very many, very dark, works of fiction where the central character doesn't change at all from one book to the next.

Our central protagonist, Ang, never changed much over the course of the series aside from accepting his past guilt. Zukko is the only character to undergo a complete arc in AtLA and everyone had a lot more screen time for focused episodes in AtLA.
Having politics does not automatically make it more mature, and Korra hardly fully embraces it when it's so in the background and one sided. And I cannot agree that controlling people with their blood is somehow more dark than the entire genocide of a people, or the backstabbing, betrayal and general drama with Sozin's bloodline. Begging, screaming and electrocution were all things present in ATLA and aren't impressively darker in Korra. Again, the core cast being older does not automatically make the show more mature, especially when the characters are all so immature in comparison to the ATLA cast.

Yes, so what? The goal the creators constantly spouted about Korra was for her to grow and become a more spiritual person than being a hothead who gets everything that she wants. That didn't happen.

Aang is not the same character he is in the beginning of the series. He's bubbly, airheaded, immature, lacks actual wisdom while pushing his on others and is just a childish character in the beginning. Contrast that with what he is at the end, calm, collected, confident, has a more serious demeanor and is willing to sacrifice his life to stop Ozai but also keep his own spiritual purity. Just bringing Zuko into the conversation makes everyone look bad in comparison, so why bother. Maybe LoK should not have introduced so many characters if they wanted them to have decent character arcs in a 12 episode limit.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Maybe LoK should not have introduced so many characters if they wanted them to have decent character arcs in a 12 episode limit.

This is really the problem with almost any defence of LoK in comparison to AtLA. It always comes down to some notion that they were restricted from pulling off something as great by the episode buy, but it's not as if it was a surprise. Nearly any 12 episode stretch of AtLA is better anyways (yes, I'd even argue the first 12, and have in this very thread).

I suspect the reason for the drop in quality (to me) is Aaron Ehasz not being involved, but it's a little bit difficult to say that for certain. I think he knew how to tell mature stories in a deceptively simple setting and that the other EPs on Avatar were more enamoured with the idea than the execution.
 

Trey

Member
Aang is the same character at the end of the show. He is gift basketed exactly what he wants just like Korra was. He never has to listen to his past lives and basically blows off all his predecessors (as well as his friends), jeopardizing his life and the world's freedom because he would not do what was necessary. A random rock and an ancient lion turtle island saved both the world and Aang's conscience.

I'm interested in LoK upcoming seasons because they seem like they will deal with the inherent brokenness of Avatar mode.
 
This is really the problem with almost any defence of LoK in comparison to AtLA. It always comes down to some notion that they were restricted from pulling off something as great by the episode buy, but it's not as if it was a surprise. Nearly any 12 episode stretch of AtLA is better anyways (yes, I'd even argue the first 12, and have in this very thread).

I suspect the reason for the drop in quality (to me) is Aaron Ehasz not being involved, but it's a little bit difficult to say that for certain. I think he knew how to tell mature stories in a deceptively simple setting and that the other EPs on Avatar were more enamoured with the idea than the execution.

Isn't he gonna re-appear for this season? If so that will be interesting seeing if your theory somehow holds.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Isn't he gonna re-appear for this season? If so that will be interesting seeing if your theory somehow holds.

I hadn't heard that, but if he is I'll definitely give Korra another go for its next season. I was leaning towards not bothering as it stood.

Aang is the same character at the end of the show. He is gift basketed exactly what he wants just like Korra was. He never has to listen to his past lives and basically blows off all his predecessors (as well as his friends), jeopardizing his life and the world's freedom because he would not do what was necessary. A random rock and an ancient lion turtle island saved both the world and Aang's conscience.

While it's true that the end of AtLA was very deus ex machinas and even a bit lazy, I disagree strongly that Aang was the same person at the end as at the beginning. In a story like this the important idea is that the character is, in the end, deserving of channelling the power he wields. Think Frodo being saved by the fact that he nor Bilbo killed Gollum. If it had been Frodo alone in the end all would have been lost, but he was set a test and he passed.

I'm interested in LoK upcoming seasons because they seem like they will deal with the inherent brokenness of Avatar mode.

How does it deal with the inherent brokenness of avatar mode? I don't see that at all.
 

Zen

Banned
Having politics does not automatically make it more mature, and Korra hardly fully embraces it when it's so in the background and one sided.

Of course it doesn't, how it's consistently presented in Korra does. It's akin to the Plinkett review of StarWars Episode I when talking about how slow burn politics and political discourse made for poor childrens entertainment, and LoK has that in spades over AtlA.

There's nothing in the background about politics in LoK, Politics is to LoK as the 100 year war is to AtlA, it's the reason for everything that happens. Amon and his brother are entirely political, where as the Firelord is not. Amon is a political terrorist and his brother is a council member and all of the events of the show are because of their political maneuverings. Korra wouldn't be in Republic city if it wasn't for Amon fermenting the equalizer movement.

And I cannot agree that controlling people with their blood is somehow more dark than the entire genocide of a people, or the backstabbing, betrayal and general drama with Sozin's bloodline.

Again this comes down to portrayal. Blood bending is portrayed as even more disturbing in LoK than it was in AtlA and has a greater emphasis in the story than Blood Bending did after its introduction in AtlA. They never would have shown a human being contorting in AtlA the way Aang was when he confronted Amon's father. The intended effect was to make it seem like Aang was seconds away from being torn apart, which is why he entered the Avatar state. We never see blood bending pushed that far in AtlA.

tumblr_m5e2g6isKG1rnpm9f.png

This obviously does not show the contortions but it's the closest I could get. Even how Toff is blood bent, the way her head is (or rather isn't) manipulated as she hands over the keys is pretty unsettling.

Also when you mention genocide, it's coming from a line from the most 2 dimensional villain evil mc badguy in the series. Amon has more to him than the Firelord ever did and we actually see Amon carryign trough on his own genocide, where as it's only mentioned in AtlA once or twice amid other things. So again how things are presented is important. And yeah I like the bloodline plot, but it was one of many focuses of the show, and I wasn't arguing that AtlA didn't end up having a lot of political threads in it.

Begging, screaming and electrocution were all things present in ATLA and aren't impressively darker in Korra

We can agree to disagree in terms of presentation, but beyond that it is much more frequent in Korra.

Again, the core cast being older does not automatically make the show more mature, especially when the characters are all so immature in comparison to the ATLA cast.

How do you define maturity beyond 'I like these characters more, ergo'?

Because I'm struggling to see it. AtlA relied on the tired trope of having a character acting out like a child for the most immature of reasons (not that we can blame them completely, they were like 12). Then of course the rest of the group would ostracize them for a completely obvious misunderstanding and there would be a forced and predictable reconciliation.

This was like, at least, -a third- of the entire series and it got really old by the end. I certainly wouldn't call that maturity.

And how refreshing was it to see Asami Sato not wring her hands or monologue or spend episodes being excessive moody over her father? It was great when she simply said 'I love you dad' and defied the trope all the way through despite her problems with Mako (that were likewise not over emphasized). That's maturity. Bolin and the group quickly getting over their love triangle and coming together as a team? That's maturity.

Korra 'getting what she wants all the time' isn't a lack of maturity, it just denies her another moment to demonstrate maturity. Yes, Korra did act immature with the whole Mako thing, but she backed off and it wasn't until the end when it came up again. Considering she spent her entire life being trained as the Avatar under lock and key, I think she turned out pretty ok.

Yes, so what? The goal the creators constantly spouted about Korra was for her to grow and become a more spiritual person than being a hothead who gets everything that she wants. That didn't happen.

I'm making a point (that you agree with I guess) that characters, even central ones, don't have to undergo large transformations over the course of a story. Sometimes the narrative is the story as much as the characters in it.

It did happen though, at least the first part. She started heeding her masters advice for patience and strategy instead of just charging in all the time. She managed to start connecting to the spirit world because of everything she went through before that point, and finally being able to open up to other people and admit weakness was a part of that. Being able to actually sit down and meditate is something she refused to take seriously at the star of the series; it took everything that happened prior and getting locked in a box for her honestly try, but she did.

Now in terms of 'getting what she wants, I agree and I wish they hadn't done 'I love you', but this doesn't make her a bad character, just a lucky one. I would have loved it have Mako chosen Asami and have Korra come to terms with that and be happy for them.

It would have been a much stronger ending!

Aang is not the same character he is in the beginning of the series. He's bubbly, airheaded, immature, lacks actual wisdom while pushing his on others and is just a childish character in the beginning. Contrast that with what he is at the end, calm, collected, confident, has a more serious demeanor and is willing to sacrifice his life to stop Ozai but also keep his own spiritual purity.

Yet he continues to be immature and act out for completely selfish reasons all the way to the end of the series. By the end of it the people I was watching it with consistently chastised Aang for being a twit. Aang is arguable at his most selfish at the end as the stakes continued to rise and that's not solely because he was struggling with the idea of killing the Firelord. A magic Sea Turtle saved the world, not Aang, and Aang got everything he wanted too.

So... eh?

Maybe LoK should not have introduced so many characters if they wanted them to have decent character arcs in a 12 episode limit.

LoK is pretty similar to AtlA in that the majority of characters don't get a lot of development relative to the running time for each, 12 episode run or not. And further more I'd argue that it's not always necessary.

While it's true that the end of AtLA was very deus ex machinas and even a bit lazy, I disagree strongly that Aang was the same person at the end as at the beginning. In a story like this the important idea is that the character is, in the end, deserving of channelling the power he wields. Think Frodo being saved by the fact that he nor Bilbo killed Gollum. If it had been Frodo alone in the end all would have been lost, but he was set a test and he passed.

Deserving doesn't mean that they're different characters at the end; Zukko is, Aang isn't in my opinion. Honestly Aang and Korra are about on par for personal growth in terms of overall maturity.
 
This isn't just about Mako. This is more about her airbending showing up completely out of nowhere and her receiving full control of the Avatar State without any of the introspective gauntlet that Aang had to go through. I'll address the rest later since I'm on my phone.
 
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