Magicpaint
Member
OoT's title screen intro is so amazing. Still sends chills down.
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Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D -- The Yellow Debate
- Thread starter redbarchetta
- Start date
Father_Brain
Banned
Honestly don't get the comments about how much better it looks in motion. It looks no better or worse than what the screenshots suggested: an approximately early-Dreamcast-level visual upgrade, which is considerably less than what the 3DS hardware is capable of. It's not ugly, just technically underwhelming. 3D may help somewhat.
MisterHero
Super Member
The opening of the original told me the game was really special because of the shiny, spinning Nintendo 64 logoMagicpaint said:
the 3ds version will miss that but I'll have my memorieeeessss
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
The music sounds fucking horrible and so do the sounds.
Why couldn't they bother updating the sound as well?
Why couldn't they bother updating the sound as well?
From The Dust
Banned
piss filter is the future. imbrace itjett said:
Magicpaint
Member
I initially thought so as well, but the N64 version's piano sounds much more subdued compared to the new version. I dunno which I like better yet...probably N64 version.jett said:
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
Shitty N64 midi and heavily compressed sound samples from 1998 are the thing nintendo wants to showcase the 3DS with?Tathanen said:
That's so silly.
Epona sounds like a fucking train when she's galloping.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
Then why don't you replay it on the N64?Tathanen said:
I realize nostalgia is a strong force... but I'd have never imagined people would get nostalgic for the terrible sound quality of the N64. The SNES had a vastly superior sound chip. It was such a huge step backwards with the N64.
snesfreak said:
Yes, yes it does. It sounded bad 13 years ago. Listen to this piece from Legend of Mana for the PS1, which also used sequenced("midi") music. Abysmal difference in sound quality from a game of the same era. There's no excuse today, Grezzo or whoever should've at least improved the sampling and the instrumentation.
Shit, OOT's music sounds bad compared to ALTTP.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
jett said:
Yeah, no thanks. As far as I'm concerned, MIDI synthesizers are musical instruments. There is no "quality" from one to the next, no more than you can say a violin sounds "better" than a piano. They are different instruments, they produce different sounds. If you want the OOT intro re-recorded on a marimba and steel drums hey that's fine for you, but "upgrading" the original MIDI to a new sampler would be as significant a change for me. For OOT, I am a fan of the original instrumentation. Just like how I prefer Chrono Trigger's original instrumentation to any various re-arrangements, however nice they may be on their own merits.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
Tathanen said:
Quoting from http://ign64.ign.com/articles/061/061845p1.html
The Super NES has a soundchip, the N64 doesn't have a soundchip. That's how it is. The N64 shares its workload with the co-processor -- actually, let me rephrase that: The whole machine does it, because you can also make music with the CPU. It just seems that at the moment most people are preoccupied with pumping out cool graphics -- and that's also what most gamers want. And the more graphics you do on the N64, the less performance you have left over for sound. With the Super NES, you knew that you could do all this and then you still had a sound chip to handle the music. On the N64, sound eats up performance.
And that's why it's completely retarded to have the 3DS emulate the N64's shitty music and sound samples.
lostinblue
Banned
by in motion you have to account for the 3D you didn't see.Father_Brain said:
From the demo I experienced, 3D does make a big difference, in Lost Woods for instance there is a whole new particle effect engine working, and you perceive particles close to the screen, on link is, and farther than that, moving in a 3D plane, it really helps to make the game alive (of course I instantly thought Wind Waker's wind, particle effects and clouds would suit it so much better, but that+s besides the point)
The game looks good the only "big" flaws are: lack of detailed fingers and animation to go with that, no detailed shadows for anyone, not even Link, not even on cutscenes. no detailed, textured mouth/improved models instead of redone from the ground ones, also how the modeling was done and it interacts with the world, Link looks fine with regular light, but when it has Navi on it's face, as a light source, or any other light source you see his face resembles a Playmobil or something, very rounded but definetly something that is aged. Reminds me of first gen "high polygon" PS2 titles to an extent, they used a lot of polygons but still looked static and the detail worked against them.
It needed flat shading or something like that in order for that to not become aparent.
Other than that the only flaw is that there were parts where the geometry wasn't that messed with (making it conservative) and that there were some "lower-quality-than-expected" textures here and there, on walls mostly.
The game is fine though.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
Yes it does.snesfreak said:
flintstryker
Banned
I am pretty sure i wouldn't.jett said:
radioheadrule83
Banned
The fact we have people moaning about a slightly yellow hue illustrating dawn on the new title screen / demo roll suggests to me that people will moan about any kind of possible change... you can't please everyone.
but I too would have liked a slight audio boost to compliment the visual boost if I'm honest. It sounds good enough though. When I played it, I don't remember the voice samples and sound effects having that horrible low res hiss to them that the N64 version had..
but I too would have liked a slight audio boost to compliment the visual boost if I'm honest. It sounds good enough though. When I played it, I don't remember the voice samples and sound effects having that horrible low res hiss to them that the N64 version had..
Magicpaint
Member
I prefer the OOT version (not sample quality, arrangement).jett said:
dude, you are talking about SAMPLES of REAL instruments. this isn't like chiptune/8-bit sound, it's not synthesized. you can make a legitimate case for synthesized 8-bit square and triangle and sine waves being superior to whatever alternate instrumentation anyone can come up with, and the same can be said for the genesis' fm synthesizer, but in case of oot's "midi" soundtrack (and most other 16-bit or n64 midi soundtracks) it's simply not up for debate. these soundtracks were WRITTEN for real instruments, often for orchestra. and only the poor sample quality and severe memory restrictions made them sound as shitty as they do/did. IMPROVING the quality of the samples and adding a larger pool of samples for individual instruments will also IMPROVE the soundtrack overall. no changes have to be made to the composition and arrangement. a piano isn't "better" when it's downsampled to 12 bit and 16 khz and only consists of a handful of key samples that are awkwardly pitch-shifted. you simply cannot make a case for that.Tathanen said:
all this oot remake needed was the replacement of the original instruments with higher quality ones and maybe a handful of recorded live performances of lines that sound artificial and fake when approximated with a sequenced equivalent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXn88mY50XMjarosh said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s9ZoF669l0
So what instrument is this?
i hope you are not trying to use that as an argument AGAINST the use of higher quality samples... there is no reason to replace that percussive sound with anything BUT a higher quality version of the same sample. and if the original sample COULDN'T be found, then - duh - leave that one sample in and fix it up a bit or even LEAVE IT AS IT IS. that doesn't speak against replacing or improving the abundance of real instruments used in the soundtrack (and even the poor synth samples). the main harmonies in this particular track are provided by a very straightforward synthesized pad sound (which was ALSO a sample). and then there's only a third instrument: an awful sounding flute sample.Big One said:
just because some select tracks use (sampled!) electronic sounds doesn't mean that the soundtrack wouldn't benefit from an update to all or most of its samples.
That's not what I'm saying, your whole argument was surrounded by the fact that since it uses instrumental samples, then it should upgrade to real instruments. There's definitely instrumental samples used in a good portion of the tracks, but for something like the Forest Temple: there is none. Ocarina of Time's soundtrack was developed with synth sounds in mind, instrument samples or not. This is why I believe people suggesting switching to real instruments or orchestrated music is flawed, cause of the heavy synth sounds used in most of the tracks. I can understand updating the intro theme with a real piano, but aside from that I think going fullblown instrumental would be out of place and inexcusable. To update the actual music with better sound quality, however? That's finejarosh said:
taylorkerns
Neo Member
Are we really bitching because they're not updating the music? The original tracks are still pitch-perfect. The Forest Temple? When I hear that shit, I can *feel* the place. It sounds cool and damp. Mossy. It sounds like I'm being watched.
There's no need to change the music.
There's no need to change the music.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
jarosh said:
Really the technical explanations here are well beyond the point, it's not really relevant to me whether there was a discrete sound chip or why the sound sounded like it sounded. "I like how OOT sounded." "I am happy it still sounds that way." This is really the beginning and the end of my point!
There's a sense of coziness and smallness that I get from OOT, really. An innocence begat by its place in gaming's lifespan perhaps, those first unsteady steps into 3D gaming, into 3D worlds. The music reinforces it for me. Its softness, its often muted orchestration, the exact sound of very specific things. I am not arguing for N64-sounding music in new 3DS Zelda games, I am arguing for "the OOT soundtrack in OOT." The orchestration of its music is a large part of what defines its experience to me, and "up-ressing" said music would damage that in my opinion. I do not want to hear real instruments, I do not want to hear "high quality samples." I want to hear the sounds that define OOT as OOT.
Maybe I'd support a more significant soundtrack alteration if this was a more thorough remake, one with significant alterations to the wireframes of the locations, new events, an updated script, reorganized progression, etc. But that's not what this is. This is the same old OOT, with the visuals remastered. I expect this game to feel much more like the original OOT than a more "real" remake would, and so I support the original soundtrack completely in furthering that sensation.
honeymustardn
Member
They had demo units at the i42 LAN this weekend. I walked past but didn't bother playing (not sure why in hindsight - too high from playing TF2) - looked pretty sick though from what I could see.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
The shitty graphics and low framerate also reinforced all your points you listed there but this is a fucking remake so it only figures they sould've remade the sound as well to be not ear-grating.Tathanen said:
flintstryker
Banned
They don't grate my ear though a matter or fact they are pretty pleasant to listen to.Ahoi-Brause said: