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Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword E3 trailer

As long as Skyloft is dense and quick to traverse, it should be fantastic. That was WW's issue - travelling without seeing anything for minutes at a time with little to do aside from swinging the camera around. I think people forget how monotonous that game can be.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
As long as Skyloft is dense and quick to traverse, it should be fantastic. That was WW's issue - travelling without seeing anything for minutes at a time with little to do aside from swinging the camera around. I think people forget how monotonous that game can be.
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I... I kinda liked it. ;_;

I'm a sucker for exploration, and that feeling of just a huge and vast world was amazing. I think that's something that TP was missing. It just felt so... claustrophobic.
 
Izayoi said:
I... I kinda liked it. ;_;

I'm a sucker for exploration, and that feeling of just a huge and vast world was amazing. I think that's something that TP was missing. It just felt so... claustrophobic.
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I liked that about WW too so many hate it we may never get another game like that again
 
Izayoi said:
I... I kinda liked it. ;_;

I'm a sucker for exploration, and that feeling of just a huge and vast world was amazing. I think that's something that TP was missing. It just felt so... claustrophobic.
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I like exploration too but exploration wasn't fun in WW either since they put everything in a grid system, with each grid predictably hosting an island or some feature and there were a limited number of grids to explore and very little to do once you systematically explore each grid, except for maybe reaching that ledge you couldn't get to earlier.

It didn't feel like a contiguous over-world either, but rather a bunch of mini island worlds strung together.

WW's strengths were its relatively few dungeons. Most of the filler were sup par, even by the then half decade old Ocarina of Time's hubrule field standards.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
As long as Skyloft is dense and quick to traverse, it should be fantastic. That was WW's issue - travelling without seeing anything for minutes at a time with little to do aside from swinging the camera around. I think people forget how monotonous that game can be.
Click to expand...

It wasn't monotonous for everyone. I never got tired of the medium distance seafaring. The audiovisual presentation alone kept me happy through sails from island to island. Naturally if you weren't as fascinated by the game as I was, I can see sailing being quite boring in WW. I hated the sailing in PH, because everything looked so goddamn dull.
 
I would give anything for an epic WW reboot maybe fix a lot of the issues people hate
also when you go below the sea (no spoilers) I want to be able to explore outside that area

I think Nintendo gave up too quickly on the WW art style kinda killed it off for me using it on the DS

with all the flaws WW is still on my top 5 Zelda games
 
_Alkaline_ said:
As long as Skyloft is dense and quick to traverse, it should be fantastic. That was WW's issue - travelling without seeing anything for minutes at a time with little to do aside from swinging the camera around. I think people forget how monotonous that game can be.
Click to expand...

Ironically this was one of my favourite things about windwaker, and trying to get lots of gulls to follow me, witrh the great sea theme blasting it was joyus, though i can see why many could get bored.
 
Izayoi said:
I... I kinda liked it. ;_;

I'm a sucker for exploration, and that feeling of just a huge and vast world was amazing. I think that's something that TP was missing. It just felt so... claustrophobic.
Click to expand...
Ditto. I remember being annoyed at the ocean during my first playthrough, but in every subsequent playthrough I just sat back, relaxed, stopped caring about that it's all a huge grid, and it truly felt like you were exploring this huge vast ocean.

So awesome! And that damn music!
 
Skyward's art style seems to be between WW and TP but for some reason I am not liking it yet I hope by the time I get this game home I can love it... so far so meh

TP was so dark and so good... I don't want no half way shit... give me WW or give me a dark TP not in between
 
Wind Waker was awesome. I spent more time just sailing around and taking snapshots for my figurines than actually playing the main game.

I don't class Phantom hourglass or Spirit Tracks as successors to the Wind Waker artstyle, so i'm hoping the 3DS can bring with it either a spiritual successor to the artstyle or at least a revitalised remake with a proper third dungeon etc

If the 3DS gets a remake of Majoras Mask and a new proper 3D Zelda with WW artstyle (not topdown PH/SS) it will already be on the way to being my favourite handheld ever.
 
Smiles and Cries said:
I would give anything for an epic WW reboot maybe fix a lot of the issues people hate
also when you go below the sea (no spoilers) I want to be able to explore outside that area

I think Nintendo gave up too quickly on the WW art style kinda killed it off for me using it on the DS

with all the flaws WW is still on my top 5 Zelda games
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LOL no they overused it. TP and SS are more refreshing after seeing so many of those ds games.

TP's overworld may be more linear but I had more fun exploring each area because of the amount of variety in atmosphere and the ease of control. With TWW it was just non stop staring at an ocean which got pretty old fast. TP had snowpeak, lake hylia, canyons, deserts, and forests. Exploring the ocean would've been more fun if they allowed you to dive in and look at reefs, had bigger islands that looked more natural and featured more sea creatures. Its pretty sad that a game with an ocean setting doesn't have a fishing mini-game. Instead we got some boring shit like auctioning, decorating a town with flowers, steering your boat the collect coins. woohoo.....
 
I hope that Nintendo continues coming up with a new art direction for every new home console Zelda.

This is why I was sorta bummed about MM's artwork not matching the visuals in-game.

For a franchise that many claim to have gotten stale, at least let the team continue coming up with new visual styles.
 
TP's overworld was so much worse than WW's, in my opinion. I get the hate for WW's, and even though I adored sailing I can see where it could have been improved, but TP's was worse. At least in Wind Waker I got some thrill out of seeing a small silhouette on the horizon, and realising something, trivial it may be, was actually there.

TP was barren nothingness. There was no point going anywhere as rarely was there anything of value to discover.
 
GeneralIroh said:
4 swords, tetra's tracker, PH, and ST.

The style is starting to feel generic to me.
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Are you referring to the in game art style or the artwork used to promote the games as 4 swords isn't really a WW artstyle in game is it?
 
jonno394 said:
Are you referring to the in game art style or the artwork used to promote the games as 4 swords isn't really a WW artstyle in game is it?
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Obviously I'm tired of seeing them reuse the same chibi link design. I actually prefer the sprites from 4 swords over what you see in PH and ST though.
But I understand where you're coming from. You want another fullfledge 3d zelda that features chibi link. All the other games felt like spin offs blah blah blah.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
As long as Skyloft is dense and quick to traverse, it should be fantastic. That was WW's issue - travelling without seeing anything for minutes at a time with little to do aside from swinging the camera around. I think people forget how monotonous that game can be.
Click to expand...
I found it quite relaxing.
 
GeneralIroh said:
LOL no they overused it. TP and SS are more refreshing after seeing so many of those ds games.
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a few games is not what did it... what killed it on the DS is the lack of power the DS had to truly pull off the WW art. It was not the same lost a lot of the charm

I would like to see what that art would look like on the WiiU :)

but if they give me the same thing from the WiiU Zelda demo

*FAP*
 
The best track from TWW is Dragon roost island. I love Andean Pan flute music. In fact it may be my favorite zelda track ever.

I thought TWW had a lot of weak tracks though. About the same as TP. A lot of the boss music had this weird sound quality that bothered me and most of the ambient music outside of traveling the overworld and certain areas were forgettable.
 
EatChildren said:
TP's overworld was so much worse than WW's, in my opinion. I get the hate for WW's, and even though I adored sailing I can see where it could have been improved, but TP's was worse. At least in Wind Waker I got some thrill out of seeing a small silhouette on the horizon, and realising something, trivial it may be, was actually there.

TP was barren nothingness. There was no point going anywhere as rarely was there anything of value to discover.
Click to expand...
My sentiments too. Though I think the main reason why sailing gets so much flack, is because you have to play that damn song everytime you wanna change the wind, it should have been made faster (or avoided completely after the game opened up [magic wind always blowing in the direction you face or something]). But as you said, everytime you saw a silhouette on the horizon, you knew there is something to discover, just as you know that the ocean doesn't have anything to be explored(aside from the various treasures...).

From a gameplay design point of view this means that the player is shown in clear cut where to go for his adventure, and while this may appear to be extremely guided, it still lets the player explore on his own on each island.

When the player explores the TP overworld, there is no 'ocean' showing there is nothing of value here, instead we have huge fields and areas that feels like missed opertunities to the player.

It's a pretty fine line, and I feel that if the TP overworld had been slightly denser, the 'empty' paces would have paid off as they would make each significant discovery that more rewarding.
 
GeneralIroh said:
The best track from TWW is Dragon roost island. I love Andean Pan flute music. In fact it may be my favorite zelda track ever.

I thought TWW had a lot of weak tracks though. About the same as TP. A lot of the boss music had this weird sound quality that bothered me and most of the ambient music outside of traveling the overworld and certain areas were forgettable.
Click to expand...

Dragon Roost Island is definetly my favorite Zelda Piece ever. When I first landed on Dragon Roost Island, I had to go to the bathroom and so the music from the TV was audible in the bathroom... I must've stood there for a few minutes in front of the sink and washing my hands listening to this track. Absolutely amazing.
 
EatChildren said:
TP's overworld was so much worse than WW's, in my opinion. I get the hate for WW's, and even though I adored sailing I can see where it could have been improved, but TP's was worse. At least in Wind Waker I got some thrill out of seeing a small silhouette on the horizon, and realising something, trivial it may be, was actually there.

TP was barren nothingness. There was no point going anywhere as rarely was there anything of value to discover.
Click to expand...

Depends what you mean by value. TP had plenty of secret holes, caves, puzzles and mini-dungeons strewn around the overworld. They only provided hearts and rupees, but it's not as if WW was much better in this regard.
 
Metroid Killer said:
My sentiments too. Though I think the main reason why sailing gets so much flack, is because you have to play that damn song everytime you wanna change the wind, it should have been made faster (or avoided completely after the game opened up [magic wind always blowing in the direction you face or something]). But as you said, everytime you saw a silhouette on the horizon, you knew there is something to discover, just as you know that the ocean doesn't have anything to be explored(aside from the various treasures...).

From a gameplay design point of view this means that the player is shown in clear cut where to go for his adventure, and while this may appear to be extremely guided, it still lets the player explore on his own on each island.

When the player explores the TP overworld, there is no 'ocean' showing there is nothing of value here, instead we have huge fields and areas that feels like missed opertunities to the player.

It's a pretty fine line, and I feel that if the TP overworld had been slightly denser, the 'empty' paces would have paid off as they would make each significant discovery that more rewarding.
Click to expand...

Exactly. As empty as the ocean was, the silhouettes acted as checkpoints and objectives. It allowed me to sepeate the action of travelling with arrival. Taking to the ocean might have been pretty basic and unexciting (I enjoyed the relaxation, but thats irrelivant), but at least I knew I was heading somewhere. That silhouette might be nothingness, but even if it is a small chunk of land I feel I've accomplished somewhere. WW had a great sense of discovery.

Because TP had none of that, as you said, it felt more like a barren nothingness. There was no distinction between travel and discovery, just a huge empty world.

Im hoping Skyward Sword offers a sense of discovery like Wind Waker.
 
Damn, Wind Waker had such fucking great music.

Really fantastic stuff.

EatChildren said:
Im hoping Skyward Sword offers a sense of discovery like Wind Waker.
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Most definitely. The more exploration the better.
 
The Xtortionist said:
WW badly needed a "warp to any island you've been to" feature.
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It sort of did later on in the game.

I really want to play The Wind Waker again, since it was my first Zelda (never owned a N64) and favourite so far.
 
biggest problem with wind waker were the dungeons imo

there was only a few of them, which isnt necessarily a problem, since mm also had few dungeons, but they were generally pretty lousy by zelda standards, whereas all four of mm's proper dungeons were great

but not only was there not enough dungeoning, but the actual dungeons themselves were not that good

the final two temples in wind waker were particularly boring

especially the wind one, jesus christ

mix the exploration of ww with the dungeons of tp and youd have the perfect zelda game imo

well, exploration and size of ww, sidequests of mm and the dungeons of tp

i mean tp is still my favourite of the three because to me the most important thing in a zelda game are the actual levels and tp has easily the best bunch since oot

but itd be nice if we could get a game that did everything right
 
Izayoi said:
Damn, Wind Waker had such fucking great music.

Really fantastic stuff.


Most definitely. The more exploration the better.
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I remember seeing a little dot on the horizon in WindWaker in my first playthrough. I was on my way to what I though was the last part of the game. I changed direction and headed straight for that dot on the Horizon.

I've since forgotten what the island I actually found was, but that's not the important part. That little bit of curiosity that Nintendo managed to feed me through that little dot at the bottom of the sky was enough to convince me that this was a game I really loved. It made me realise how invested in my exploration I really was. I didn't care about anything at the destination, like a reward or heart piece. Just that there was this one little island I hadn't seen yet and I'll be damned if I don't see it.
 
Duki said:
whereas all four of mm's proper dungeons were great
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what? no.

i guess the difference between the two is that mm had the stone tower temple while none of tww's really stood out (although the wind temple for the music alone was memorable for me). mm's first three temples were generally pretty weak. the first one in particular felt like a prototype that tww's forest temple was built on. also, mm had a pretty fucking shitty water dungeon and some bad/frustrating boss fights in general. tww was never excellent, but at least it was never frustrating either.
 
Metroid Killer said:
Racing Theme
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Zelda is so cute.

Mr Touchdown said:
I remember seeing a little dot on the horizon in WindWaker in my first playthrough. I was on my way to what I though was the last part of the game. I changed direction and headed straight for that dot on the Horizon.

I've since forgotten what the island I actually found was, but that's not the important part. That little bit of curiosity that Nintendo managed to feed me through that little dot at the bottom of the sky was enough to convince me that this was a game I really loved. It made me realise how invested in my exploration I really was. I didn't care about anything at the destination, like a reward or heart piece. Just that there was this one little island I hadn't seen yet and I'll be damned if I don't see it.
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Yup. The recent trend many games are taking, swapping out exploration for boring hallways (see ME1 to ME2 for a fantastic example of this), is really disheartening. I'm such a sucker for huge, open worlds. I really liked that about WW, so I hope they're able to recapture at least some of that feeling with SS.
 
AniHawk said:
what? no.

i guess the difference between the two is that mm had the stone tower temple while none of tww's really stood out (although the wind temple for the music alone was memorable for me). mm's first three temples were generally pretty weak. the first one in particular felt like a prototype that tww's forest temple was built on. also, mm had a pretty fucking shitty water dungeon and some bad/frustrating boss fights in general. tww was never excellent, but at least it was never frustrating either.
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Completely disagree. Woodfall was a bit simple, but it was also an introductory dungeon, and was certainly better than any other first dungeon in a Zelda game (maybe aside from TP's Forest Temple). But the remaining three were sprawling, multi-room puzzle dungeons that challenged how you traversed it. Solving a puzzle in one room didn't just move you to the next. Each room was more significant than just being a self contained "puzzle room". WW's dungeons guided you way, way too much for my liking. There is no comparison to me.
 
AniHawk said:
mm had a pretty fucking shitty water dungeon
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SERIES OF TUBES!!1!

I can't remember much of MM really as I never got around to replay it, but I just faintly remember all the confusing one-way tubes of the Great Bay Temple. Confused the hell out of me back then.
 
Magicpaint said:
Completely disagree. Woodfall was a bit simple, but it was also an introductory dungeon, and was certainly better than any other first dungeon in a Zelda game (maybe aside from TP's Forest Temple). But the remaining three were sprawling, multi-room puzzle dungeons that challenged how you traversed it. Solving a puzzle in one room didn't just move you to the next. Each room was more significant than just being a self contained "puzzle room". WW's dungeons guided you way, way too much for my liking. There is no comparison to me.
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i agree

i especially liked the way the dungeons changed once you got the corresponding elemental arrow, thought it was more organic than the usual, arbitrary "you got a hookshot so now you can hookshot onto obviously and specifically designated hookshot spots". melting ice, being able to cross water, flipping the temple etc. were all great imo

and they remained useful in later dungeons, which isnt often the case in zelda games. like how you needed to freeze and melt water in the water temple to get through it

and wut the bosses were all great imo, barring the first i suppose, but odolwa was pretty solid for a first boss. the game made the most of using the masks to change the gameplay up with the bosses imo, especially with the goron and zora masks in their respective levels. and i liked that they were harder, wind wakers bosses were a joke

really the whole game was a joke difficulty wise
 
exploration means nothing if there's nothing significant to be gained from it. Ancient ruins to study, artifacts to collect, random caves, forests, NPCs, minigames in the wild and not from the usual guy with a wooden MINIGAMES sign, now this would be enough to justify entering a cave and, after a totally random pseudo-dungeon you get something that isn't a chest full of rupees. TP was particularly terrible in that regard
 
Duki said:
i agree

i especially liked the way the dungeons changed once you got the corresponding elemental arrow, thought it was more organic than the usual, arbitrary "you got a hookshot so now you can hookshot onto obviously and specifically designated hookshot spots". melting ice, being able to cross water, flipping the temple etc. were all great imo
Click to expand...

well my thing about water levels is that the only good water level anyone has ever done in the history of video games is tp's water temple. so mm is basically negative one from the start. stone tower temple is the game's one actual classic level, at least. still find the first temple too boring and the third one interesting with some frustrating segments due to goron controls.

and wut the bosses were all great imo, barring the first i suppose, but odolwa was pretty solid for a first boss. the game made the most of using the masks to change the gameplay up with the bosses imo, especially with the goron and zora masks in their respective levels. and i liked that they were harder, wind wakers bosses were a joke

really the whole game was a joke difficulty wise
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oh hey giant fish jumps out of the water and hits you into the water and now you're being attacked in the water. fun.

ghot was the only interesting boss in mm. the giant mask boss was stupidly simple. even the fight against the title character wasn't very interesting. the two final boss fights in tww were great.
 
GeneralIroh said:
The best track from TWW is Dragon roost island. I love Andean Pan flute music. In fact it may be my favorite zelda track ever.

I thought TWW had a lot of weak tracks though. About the same as TP. A lot of the boss music had this weird sound quality that bothered me and most of the ambient music outside of traveling the overworld and certain areas were forgettable.
Click to expand...
At least Wind Waker has Molgera. That is one of the greatest boss battle themes in the series :) (This is a fact)
 
Anasui Kishibe said:
exploration means nothing if there's nothing significant to be gained from it
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What if the thing to be gained is a sense of discovery? That feeling when you find a new place is really great, and it's more than enough for me. Tangible benefits are only icing on the cake.
 
Izayoi said:
What if the thing to be gained is a sense of discovery? That feeling when you find a new place is really great, and it's more than enough for me. Tangible benefits are only icing on the cake.
Click to expand...


yes but I guess that at least, say, an ancient statue, a graveyard, a menhir or something else would make it feel more like a true exploration, but I guess Zelda would need some sort of ingame lore
 
Transportation methods depicted through the artwork of the series:


Epona - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
514px-Link_and_Epona_%28Ocarina_of_Time%29.png



Epona - The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (2000)
MM_Epona.png



Dimitri - The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages/Seasons (2001)
Dimitri.png



Moosh - The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages/Seasons (2001)
Moosh.png



Ricky - The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages/Seasons (2001)
Ricky.png



King of Red Lions - The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2002)
360px-LinkSailing.png



Epona - The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (2006)
Linkepona.png



S.S. Linebeck - The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (2007)
SS_Linebeck.png



Spirit Train - The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (2009)
681px-Spirit_Train.png



Bird - The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (2011)
707px-SS_Flight_Artwork.png
 
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