Tekken Revolution has a terrible free to play model and I never put in a single cent towards it, even though it is my favourite fighting game series. I have no problems with free to play when done right, but Revolution did everything wrong. If this is the future of fighting games I'll just be an old fogey and play nothing but older games.
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Let's discuss how Tekken Revolution could be the future of fighting games!
- Thread starter Zaku
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My argument here is that it's good for the players, as well. The cost of the Premium Coins is not large: $5 gets you 30 coins, which can last you quite a few matches assuming you put up a 50/50 win ratio, and more importantly, this model has left the game with a very active player base 16 months after launch, which is quite rare for a fighting game not called Street Fighter.
This is part of my reason for liking it, I'll admit. Knowing that there's a 16-cent (or less, if I've won one or several matches on the credit) surcharge if I lose the match makes me more focused, more likely to play it safe and smart.
It's honestly not a huge charge: I'd put my cost to time ratio with Tekken Revolution under $1/hour, which is pretty damned good for a free-to-play title. I've certainly put in the time: I've racked up over 500 wins (and god knows how many losses) playing the game.
Care to clarify why you think the credit system is so terrible? It's cheap for the time invested and unless you're playing nothing but the Online Versus mode constantly without hitting up Practice mode or Arcade mode, you can very easily coast through a solid 4 hour night of gaming for less than two bucks.
RelentlessRolento
Member
I will say I've played from day 1 till now and have yet to spend a dime, plus almost all characters are unlocked.
The one thing that people forget to talk about is the game mechanics. I enjoy TR's more than TTT2 primarily due to the removal of convoluted long ass bound combos n tags. I come from the crowd of people where I prefer a good skilled fight more than a good skilled fight based on how well you can string a paragraph of moves together.
The one thing that people forget to talk about is the game mechanics. I enjoy TR's more than TTT2 primarily due to the removal of convoluted long ass bound combos n tags. I come from the crowd of people where I prefer a good skilled fight more than a good skilled fight based on how well you can string a paragraph of moves together.
Removing the Bound mechanics makes the game more focused on reading your opponent rather than trying to get the poke in for a 60%-100% combo... Though King still gets to one-combo a round if you're sleepy.
Honestly if Tekken Revolution were to have an offline 2-player mode, I think it could make for some very exciting tournaments to watch amongst high level players, simply because the overall design versus Tag 2 makes it more about head games and predicting your opponent.
The RPG mechanics aren't even that bad... High Power reduces the number of hits you need to land by maybe two over the course of a round, high Endurance gives you a couple extra hits over the course of a round, and high Vigor acts like a high Power for a few moves. It's very easy for a skilled level 1 player to body an unskilled level 60 player, and serves to act as a further means of balance in the grand scheme of things.
Though I've got to say... The actual rank system is fantastic, both in terms of presentation and execution. I rarely find myself fighting someone a couple ranks lower and finding myself at a loss for what to do, and I rarely find myself with anything but a very difficult fight on my hands when going up against someone higher ranked than me. Additionally, notifying an opponent of your impending Rank Up or Rank Down provides a further incentive to focus on the fight, to deny them the rise or push them back down.
Even the way it dumps you to practice against the AI between fights is a pretty good design move. It keeps the pace up, keeps you in the game.
Yeah, we're are just at complete opposite ends here. RPG mechanics in a fighting game are terrible, and needing to pay for more time I'm a fighting game is the worst part of the arcade experience without any of the benefits. 95% of my time is playing other people on a fighting game, so being able to play arcade mode means very little to me.
Cyber Caesar
Member
I've never liked the aspect of paying for an advantage, at its core it's anti competitive.
Care to explain why you feel that way?
Because my problem with DOA5U and Killer Instinct is that they provide no benefit to the player playing for free over time: With DOA5 Core Fighters, you get a few core fighters and you have to pay to unlock the rest. With Killer Instinct, you get one revolving character for free and have to pay to unlock the rest.
For someone paying nothing to play the game, there's no benefit over time for remaining invested in the title: While you get to experience a range of fighters, you don't get to unlock more through play, so as a free player your investment in the game doesn't increase over time.
The RPG mechanics aren't that bad. A fully maxed character holds, at most, a 25% handicap over a completely unenhanced character, and someone who's fully maxed and playing someone unenhanced is either laughably bad at the game but trying their darndest anyway or they're facing someone who has chosen to purposefully handicap themselves in order to increase the challenge they face.
You can't buy an advantage in the game. At best, you get to level up quicker. You cannot outright buy power in Tekken Revolution.
It'd be amazing if for Tekken 7 they made it so that you can either buy the full game as usual or play for free via the Tekken Revolution model. Best of both worlds.
I don't really like the powerups, otherwise Tekken Revolution is cool for me as a casual fan. Never payed anything but I can get my short fix when I'm in the mood for a few quick matches.
I don't really like the powerups, otherwise Tekken Revolution is cool for me as a casual fan. Never payed anything but I can get my short fix when I'm in the mood for a few quick matches.
Tekken Rev is bad, but Soul Calibur Lost Swords is even worse. Imagine a single-player fighting game with content locked behind a pay wall.
I played Rev for a little while, but I later bought the much superior TTT2 and never returned. I hope that the F2P fighters disappear for good.
CastorTroy
Member
If you want to go a different model for your fighting games, I think KI absolutely stomps what Namco's been trying with their fighters.
RelentlessRolento
Member
Like others have said the RPG stuff isn't as bad as it comes off as. It all balances out if you fit it to your play style. Power is evened out against endurance mostly anyway
Khrysler Jerikho
Member
I've playing TR for a while but I don't really feel the effects of the stats (except probably for the life bar, which can be easily negated).
Soul Calibur Lost Swords is the opposite of this though.
I'm pretty OK with TR's F2P model, as it reminded me of my time in the arcades (without the social aspect just like someone above pointed out). DOA's approach is fine as well. I guess it just boils down to what type of experience the publisher wants to accomplish.
Soul Calibur Lost Swords is the opposite of this though.
I'm pretty OK with TR's F2P model, as it reminded me of my time in the arcades (without the social aspect just like someone above pointed out). DOA's approach is fine as well. I guess it just boils down to what type of experience the publisher wants to accomplish.
Bl@de
Member
Automatisch
Member
I think DOA and KI are probably the only implementation of a F2P fighter that I would be interested in. To me, as long as I get training mode and multiplayer, along with a few characters that I "own" and a few rotating characters, I'm content.
Obviously something like Valve's Dota 2 model would be in the best interest of the consumers by having every character free and charging for cosmetics, but it feels like only they could create something like that and make it work, especially since there's not millions of people playing these games like they are mobas.
Obviously something like Valve's Dota 2 model would be in the best interest of the consumers by having every character free and charging for cosmetics, but it feels like only they could create something like that and make it work, especially since there's not millions of people playing these games like they are mobas.
The DoA5 Core Fighters part you mentioned is factually wrong. It is also rotating characters. Usually it's 2, but there are also some special events which unlock even 4. Also they gave away at least 3 characters(Jann Lee, Hitomi and Mila) for free already as a promotion.
A quicker level up is already an bought advantage though and in general I RPG mechanics do not fit fighting games outside of SP. Unless it's while in fight like Frank West in UMvC3.
Property changes in moves like damage are significant even if they appear small(25% is really BIG), especially since there's no actual balance in those stat changes. Also having RPG elements becoming a deciding factor in the outcome of a match between equally skilled players makes it undesirable for a competitive environment.
I love Tekken but I haven't played Revolution yet, but from reading this thread it seems the f2p model is like Ace Combat Infinity which I played.
The thing about these f2p games is that it stop you from enjoying the game after you run out of energy. It would be more tolerable if you can play as much as you want, but won't let you earn money/progress unless you have energy, coins, or whatever. That's my 2 cents anyway.
Though I can't speak for enthusiasts that play fightings games only. I didn't have have a problem with Ace Combat's f2p model because I play too many games anyway that require grinding / time (currently playing FF14/Destiny/and a single player RPG.)
The thing about these f2p games is that it stop you from enjoying the game after you run out of energy. It would be more tolerable if you can play as much as you want, but won't let you earn money/progress unless you have energy, coins, or whatever. That's my 2 cents anyway.
Though I can't speak for enthusiasts that play fightings games only. I didn't have have a problem with Ace Combat's f2p model because I play too many games anyway that require grinding / time (currently playing FF14/Destiny/and a single player RPG.)
Some of TR's elements has appeal; easy-to understand special moves (press X and win), stat boosting (my Y is 10 times better than yours), F2P (it's free). But TR isn't designed for tournament play as we know it.
Of course, then there's those annoying time-play based microtransactions. DoA and KI's model is better for that reason alone.
Of course, then there's those annoying time-play based microtransactions. DoA and KI's model is better for that reason alone.
Having the ability to unlock characters through extended playtime isn't exactly a benefit. Like all fighting games the real benefit one should get is he one of learning the mechanics and how to apply your character knowledge to said mechanics. Something that TR does poorly considering its 'energy bar' system is limiting.
KI and DOAs benefit is that it gives you the tools to learn and master the game for free. The games have very extensive tutorials for anyone to pick up and get through. Even though DOA has four characters and two rotating characters (Mila and Kokoro went free for download recently--so that's 6-8 characters.). And KI with its sole rotating character (you can still practice/do dojo with Jago.). I would much rather learn those characters and get assituated with the game instead of grinding to unlock the character I want.
Mind you this is a /Tekken/ game and grinding through fighting games isn't really fun.
I got more benefit from getting my main free in DOA (Mila <3) then I ever would with grinding in TR for Steve/Yoshi
Haunted
Member
More like it's the past of fighting games.
The experience in arcades was a great part of my childhood, and I'm a bit unhappy that they're largely gone, but fuck me if I'm not happy that I don't ever have to put in another quarter to continue playing a game I like again, especially if it's at home on my own systems.
So no, fuck those energy/IAP systems.
The experience in arcades was a great part of my childhood, and I'm a bit unhappy that they're largely gone, but fuck me if I'm not happy that I don't ever have to put in another quarter to continue playing a game I like again, especially if it's at home on my own systems.
So no, fuck those energy/IAP systems.
zephervack
Member
So as a casual Tekken player, if I want to learn to play it and practice with other people, I need to buy "tokens", no thanks.
Last Tekken I enjoyed was 5, but after that it became infuriating, couldnt enjoy the online at all because of the barrier of entry, everyone is a fucking monster at it.
, Oh look, I cant even land a simple punch, this guys using Marduk is just throwing me around the stage without letting me get up. Great fun.
Last Tekken I enjoyed was 5, but after that it became infuriating, couldnt enjoy the online at all because of the barrier of entry, everyone is a fucking monster at it.
, Oh look, I cant even land a simple punch, this guys using Marduk is just throwing me around the stage without letting me get up. Great fun.The future of fighting games could result from them moving closer to the arcade model that made them so popular.
Who'da thunk it? That said, I do think that fighting games are having a harder time justifying an upfront $60, but Mortal Kombat 9 and Tekken Tag Tournament 2 do an amazing job at it.
Who'da thunk it? That said, I do think that fighting games are having a harder time justifying an upfront $60, but Mortal Kombat 9 and Tekken Tag Tournament 2 do an amazing job at it.
Energy meter ruined it for me, and I deleted it. I'm sorry but I won't play any fighting game that limits my play time. I agree with people saying DOA did it much better. In the end, I don't care about Namco's pockets, I do give them my money when I feel it's worth it but this is not the case at all. Instead of aggressive wallet locks, fighting game developers should focus on lower their development costs somehow.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Fuck this shit
Awful game, awful idea, awful execution.
No fucking way.
Awful game, awful idea, awful execution.
No fucking way.
Okay, so to say there's a little bit of resistance to the idea would be an understatement here in this thread. Okay, so just as a thought exercise...
If Tekken Revolution kept this method, but removed the microtransactions entirely if the amount you'd paid into it reached $60, would you be more supportive of this model? I.E. the game has an energy meter until you've paid in your fair share for the game, whereupon it's basically a normal game for you.
Would that be a better model?
Because $60 up front is killing the fighting game community online. Most lobbies are becoming a wasteland uncomfortably quick.
If Tekken Revolution kept this method, but removed the microtransactions entirely if the amount you'd paid into it reached $60, would you be more supportive of this model? I.E. the game has an energy meter until you've paid in your fair share for the game, whereupon it's basically a normal game for you.
Would that be a better model?
Because $60 up front is killing the fighting game community online. Most lobbies are becoming a wasteland uncomfortably quick.
People should always have the option to buy the "full package." I play fighters for years at a time and it is a ridiculous expectation to think that I'll continue to pump dollars for virtual credits for that long.
For people who don't play as much as me, the free option works great. It appeases both crowds. Also don't think that Tekken Revo should be a separate game since that splits the communities, but I understand this was an experiment for Namco.
I agree totally. The aim for integration SHOULD be the key.
However as an experiment, I've got to say that TR does hit a lot of the high notes, outside of the F2P stuff. The gameplay feels a lot more exciting without the Bound system, and the Critical Arts add a depth to the gameplay which drags Tekken out of the combo mentality it's unfortunately mired in: Having a "NO U!" attack in every character's arsenal which allows them to stop a poorly timed poke with a straight up, high damage smack in the head makes the focus on combo strings practically disappear.
I don't disagree that it's a money sink. I know I've probably spent more than $60 (more than $100+, if I'm honest) in the game. However, I view it under the same price structure as a good, long-running game with DLC, etc. I pay Capcom for SFIV updates, so why not trickle a dollar or two a night to Namco for TR updates?
I do wish I could buy an "Unlimited Coin" which let me play to my heart's content, but I'm honestly pretty happy with the overall experience, just because the community remains so active. I took, like, a four month break from a fighter not named Marvel vs Capcom or Street Fighter a year after release and the community is still going strong despite a lack of retail copy support or anything else.
I'm not going to call Tekken Revolution perfect by any means, because it very clearly has issues. I just wish more people would recognize how profound the audience it has, crippled framework and all, and what that could mean for the fighting game community. With a few tweaks, this could be a very solid framework to base future fighters around. This could be something that leads us to a better community, a more robust one which allows for a larger audience and more opponents for all.
If Tekken Revolution had local VS, a more in-depth Training Mode, and the "Unlimited Coin" option I mentioned above, I wouldn't hesitate to call it the best fighter I've ever played. It's that damned close.
No.
Purposely limiting my playing time (I dunno if they patched out "energy" for the arcade mode) to 30 mins every other hour is stupid.
Making the game ONLINE REQUIRED outside of the versus mode is stupid. Double so when the training mode wants you to be online to use it. WTF, Namco?
While it may not limit you in characters like DOA5, it fails in other departments.
DOA5's method is far better. You get the training mode (which helps you learn the game), the versus mode (offline AND online) with 5 characters to start off with. While I don't agree with locking characters behind a paywall, I can understand why they do that. They give you at least 25-50% of the retail disc from simply downloading the "demo"/F2P version. That's insane value for a F2P title.
I'd honestly rather have the DOA5 model with a two or so hour "trial" of each character so you can find the ones you like and then get 2 or 4 "tokens" to keep those characters. But that'd open up the title for exploiting via multiple accounts which is why the Ninjas + rotating character happens. :/
Neff
Member
By and large I prefer buying a complete fighter for a traditional one-off fee because it gives me far, far more value than a F2P model or even an arcade model ever did. And F2P lacks the arcade model's benefits of quality, maintained monitors/sticks and of course the in-person social element.
So I really don't see any benefits to Revolution's way of doing it, other than appearing a more enticing purchase for casual players. Plus it still omits Yoshimitsu, so that's one more strike against it imo.
Tekken is like 100 times more popular than a Persona fighter is, so that's not surprising. People are even still playing TTT2 a lot.
So I really don't see any benefits to Revolution's way of doing it, other than appearing a more enticing purchase for casual players. Plus it still omits Yoshimitsu, so that's one more strike against it imo.
Tekken is like 100 times more popular than a Persona fighter is, so that's not surprising. People are even still playing TTT2 a lot.
Teknopathetic
Member
"My only problem with LOL style is that purely cosmetic stuff couldn't fund a fighting game."
Arguable.
People will spend lots of money if there is an abundance of high quality cosmetics that they like. Look at CS:GO and their gun skins. Literally just a graphic design slapped onto a weapon and yet some people will spend 1-200$ for an AWP or Knife skin. DotA 2, TF2, etc.
This idea that cosmetics aren't capable of entirely funding a F2P game is nonsense.
Arguable.
People will spend lots of money if there is an abundance of high quality cosmetics that they like. Look at CS:GO and their gun skins. Literally just a graphic design slapped onto a weapon and yet some people will spend 1-200$ for an AWP or Knife skin. DotA 2, TF2, etc.
This idea that cosmetics aren't capable of entirely funding a F2P game is nonsense.
All this crap is awful, terrible, atrocious, pick the adjective. I love fighting games, but if this is the future, then RIP. Let me buy what I want and play it however I want and for however long I want. I can barely get a sentence into these paragraphs without throwing up in my mouth.
Give the option to try and/or buy content a la carte, but not any of this timed earning credits to play nonsense. I saw that and deleted this game immediately. DoA5U and KI both handle it fine in their own way. Offering fixed pieces of content to use is fine, just not this expendable currency f2p stuff. If you don't want to buy the game or care enough to pay a small entry fee, fine, don't. Just don't pollute the genre with these gimmicks.
Perhaps, but it really needs a local vs and training from the start. Maybe cycle through the free characters every week.
I downloaded Tekken Revolution and DoA5: Core Fighters way back when.
Tekken had bullshit energy meters and timers as well as an unbalancing RPG system. Both things ruined the game utterly. Couldn't uninstall it quick enough.
DoA5, on the other hand, was a literally perfect example of how to do a F2P fighter. You never have to wait to play. You never have to pay to play. All modes except story mode are available for free. You get plenty of free characters, and two of those free charcters rotate monthly, so eventually you can try everyone. The game supports itself through selling access to characters and then, if you want, to DLC costumes, of which there are hundreds. If you only want to play one or two non-free characters and don't care about costumes you can have years of wait-free fun for 4-5 bucks. There are also no RPG systems to entice you to play or spend money or grind. It's just skill-based fighting, nothing more or less.
The contrast between DoA Core Fighters and Tekken Revolution could not be greater. If Tekken Revolution is the future, count me out.
Tekken had bullshit energy meters and timers as well as an unbalancing RPG system. Both things ruined the game utterly. Couldn't uninstall it quick enough.
DoA5, on the other hand, was a literally perfect example of how to do a F2P fighter. You never have to wait to play. You never have to pay to play. All modes except story mode are available for free. You get plenty of free characters, and two of those free charcters rotate monthly, so eventually you can try everyone. The game supports itself through selling access to characters and then, if you want, to DLC costumes, of which there are hundreds. If you only want to play one or two non-free characters and don't care about costumes you can have years of wait-free fun for 4-5 bucks. There are also no RPG systems to entice you to play or spend money or grind. It's just skill-based fighting, nothing more or less.
The contrast between DoA Core Fighters and Tekken Revolution could not be greater. If Tekken Revolution is the future, count me out.
You lost me again at energy meter. I will absolutely not play any fighter that that has any sort of energy meter or coin mechanic tied to real money tracking the number of plays or time in certain modes, even if it caps out. I don't want to see any of that type of thing in a home console/pc game. Not at all. Fixed content purchases if people want them, but that's as far as it should go.
Okay, I've read all of OP's posts now, and I see where he's coming from better. And I fundamentally disagree with his arguments from the bottom up.
What OP is saying essentially boils down to "Fighters need meta-systems that make players' time spent playing the game valuable in some tangible way to make them want to continue playing."
And I fundamentally hate that approach. It's the Skinner Box approach. The game should stand or fail (including the size of the community) on how fun it is. Nothing should encroach on the core gameplay.
As for DLC not being able to support a game, DoA5 is the perfect retort. We're about to get the 4th version of that game, and I'm convinced that it's entirely supported by the DLC. I still play that game two years later because it values my time. I can still find a lobby match without waiting. (The ranked system was borked from the start, unfortunately.)
As Skilletor said, energy systems are the worst part of the arcade (paying for time played) without the best part (social, in person gaming).
Here's an idea, though. Take the DoA model, then for every 100 matches played you get to choose a costume that's in the shop. Considering that there are over 300 costumes in there, you'd never get many of them without paying BUT it would encourage people to continue playing online. I still find it a bit skeevy, and don't like the idea of having people play for anything other than the joy of playing a good game. But this suggestion is far, far better than time-restricting energy systems or RPG systems.
What OP is saying essentially boils down to "Fighters need meta-systems that make players' time spent playing the game valuable in some tangible way to make them want to continue playing."
And I fundamentally hate that approach. It's the Skinner Box approach. The game should stand or fail (including the size of the community) on how fun it is. Nothing should encroach on the core gameplay.
As for DLC not being able to support a game, DoA5 is the perfect retort. We're about to get the 4th version of that game, and I'm convinced that it's entirely supported by the DLC. I still play that game two years later because it values my time. I can still find a lobby match without waiting. (The ranked system was borked from the start, unfortunately.)
As Skilletor said, energy systems are the worst part of the arcade (paying for time played) without the best part (social, in person gaming).
Here's an idea, though. Take the DoA model, then for every 100 matches played you get to choose a costume that's in the shop. Considering that there are over 300 costumes in there, you'd never get many of them without paying BUT it would encourage people to continue playing online. I still find it a bit skeevy, and don't like the idea of having people play for anything other than the joy of playing a good game. But this suggestion is far, far better than time-restricting energy systems or RPG systems.