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Lets See What GAF Was Saying About PS2 A Little Before Launch...

Gigglepoo

Member
kaf said:
Somebody should replace GameCube with Wii and PlayStation 2 with 3 and see how closely it follows the PS3 bitch threads of today.

There is a big difference between last generation and this one. Sony's strategy with the PS2 was to offer relatively powerful hardware at a price that was affordable to both the consumer and developer. This ensured a lot of systems in people's homes and a wide variety of games. The PS3 is very expensive to purchase and develop. It will be hard to see the variety of games the PS2 enjoyed because Sony has such a different strategy.

The GC tried to compete with Sony and MS but failed miserably. The Wii is offering a completely different gaming experience.

EDIT - Just thought I would add that Sony's strategy this generation is making me sad. The PS2 is the greatest system ever made because of the sheer volume of high quality, quirky titles. I own a ton of games for the system and none of them are Final Fantasy, Metal Gear or GTA. It's the best system ever because of Graffiti Kingdom, Shadow of the Collosus, Guitar Hero, Klonoa 2, etc. I fear that developers won't be able to experiment as much with the PS3 which means games like Katamari simply won't be made or will utilize a control scheme that I am not completely sold on yet.
 

Woakes

Member
I don't think the price is as much of a differentiating factor as some would believe. When the PS2 was launched in the UK at least, I bought a launch system for 400 pounds from EB. The price dropped very quickly after that granted. I can't be bothered to work it out, but given a few years inflation or whatever I imagine it's not much different to now.

Until only very recently, the x360 hasn't had much of the shelf space in shops over here, it's been relegated to a corner along with the PC games, while a whole wall was dedicated to the ps2/psp, and half a wall to the Nintendo/xbox1. Only over the last few weeks has the x360 had an eye catching amount of floor space in shops.

Actually, the amount of shelf space dedicated to each system in your local store might be an interesting thread, or am I just really, really sad? :lol
 
I think Sony has the best strategy out of the three. Sony have managed to stretch this current generation to over 6 years, and it looks like with a few big titles the PS2 will go well into its 7th year. With the PS2s high capacity disc format and complicated but powerful (it still does well against the xbox) architecture Sony have managed to keep the generation going until the PS2 has become affordable to most homes in the world who want it.

They've done the same for next generation, created a very powerful CPU took the plunge with a high capacity disk format, and want to stretch out the lifetime of their console even further so it becomes affordable to all households within time, and that lesser known developers can get their teeth into some powerful hardware a few years down the line when it becomes cheaper to develop for.
 
I was thinking about this the other day. The forums today definitely parallel the discussions taking place before the PS2 launch.
 
i think this just shows that peoples opinions generally aren't based on tangible things.

i mean, the ps2 was a much safer bet than the ps3 is. launching at the same price as the ps-one... carrying on all those great franchises. against a system without EA support from Sega, who had only partially learned from their mistakes of the previous generation.

people trying to brand the Wii gamecube 2 really need to remember that the gamecube was more n64 part 2 than the Wii is gamecube part 2. technology wise, yes, the cube and wii are closer, but that's really the only way they're similar.

which console has the best line up of games? that's totally debatable right now. going into each generation the ones that have stood up have always been a bit of a surprise. only really Final Fantasy, Mario and Zelda have shown to have staying power from one generation to the next over any long period of time.

Metal Gear Solid 4 will of course be a great game. DMC4 may or may not be a great game (DMC2 waves with an ashamed look on it's face)... and the GT series will still play the same (ie great) and look better with each successive game... but it's the Halos and the GTAs or if you talk playstation era, the Resident Evils and the Tomb Raiders.

anyone could argue that their console has the best line up at this stage. on paper they all look great.

i'd like to hear from the Sony advocates what they think sony would have to do to surrender marketshare. what mistakes they'd have to make.

I KNOW that the $499 PS3 isn't as 'gimped' as the $299 360 is... but general consensus says '$599? what the hell?'.

i personally want to see a closer fight this time. i don't want to see sony 'fail' i just want to see the market more evenly divided. if you only want to buy one console... then yeah. you're going to not want that to happen... but someone having a monopoly over a market isn't good for the market or good for that company in the long run.

i don't know, difficult third album syndrome?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
plagiarize said:
i mean, the ps2 was a much safer bet than the ps3 is.

Real easy to say in hindsight.

The reality is that no matter what the situation is or appears to be looking back, different camps will always find ways to talk up the negatives of one system or another. It's easy to say now "PS2 was always going to win" or whatever, but try telling that to the people arguing differently back in 2000. The PS2 had its own challenges that people made hay with, and used to point out how different things were compared to the PSone. And they were right - things were different - but it was irrelevant to the end result ultimately.
 
gofreak said:
Real easy to say in hindsight.

The reality is that no matter what the situation is or appears to be looking back, different camps will always find ways to talk up the negatives of one system or another. It's easy to say now "PS2 was always going to win" or whatever, but try telling that to the people arguing differently back in 2000. The PS2 had its own challenges that people made hay with, and used to point out how different things were compared to the PSone. And they were right - things were different - but it was irrelevant to the end result ultimately.
i'm not saying it with hindsight though. i'm saying that before the ps2's launch i would have given it much better odds than I'd now give the ps3. of course there were people predicting it's failure or what have you, but I'm pretty confident that the GENERAL feeling back then was more positive than it is now. yes you still had the same opinions... but there are more negative ones this time than there were negative ones last time.
 

Xrenity

Member
Ajax said:
Handhelds is a totally different market.
I like how this suddenly is true when it comes in handy.

Of course you can compare them, to some extend.

Thing is, when only Game Boy was ruling handheld world, Gamecube was failing. And thus, they say, they are totally different markets. Wrong.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
plagiarize said:
i'm not saying it with hindsight though. i'm saying that before the ps2's launch i would have given it much better odds than I'd now give the ps3.

I'm not really talking about you specifically, obviously I don't know what you were or weren't saying prior to the PS2's launch ;) All I know is that there are people who will always make hay with whatever (apparently negative) differences occur between a system and that which has come before that was successful, addressing what happened in hindsight and pointing out how this and that differs, and thus how the outcome will differ. But that happens every time :p I'm sure there'll be people in 5 years time pointing out how this or that was obvious re. PS3/360/Wii, stuff that right now isn't obvious at all.

Again, I'm not really addressing you specifically. It's just a general comment really.
 

hadareud

The Translator
Late to this topic and I have to say that I don't really see that many similarities - neither in these comments from 6-7 years ago nor the current situation as a whole compared to then.

We'll see how it turns out, but let's not forget that nearly everybody on this board (or any other internet gaming forum for that matter) has some kind of bias - and that reflects in their comments.

I am predicting Sony to lose marketshare to both MS and Nintendo and I think it will be a significant chunk that they lose. Then again, I am biased myself - so is this prediction worth much? Probably not.

Also, anyone can go and find what some people said 7 years ago and then say - look how stupid they were, and because they were stupid it means everything will stay the same forever.
 
gofreak said:
I'm not really talking about you specifically, obviously I don't know what you were or weren't saying prior to the PS2's launch ;) All I know is that there are people who will always make hay with whatever (apparently negative) differences occur between a system and that which has come before that was successful, addressing what happened in hindsight and pointing out how this and that differs, and thus how the outcome will differ. But that happens every time :p I'm sure there'll be people in 5 years time pointing out how this or that was obvious re. PS3/360/Wii, stuff that right now isn't obvious at all.

Again, I'm not really addressing you specifically. It's just a general comment really.
i know i can be a bit all over the chart. sometimes i look like a fanboy... sometimes i don't :)

i agree with you... there will always be doubters, but the more of them there are the more likely that they'll actually have an impact or represent something outside of GAFland. i don't want to see anyone fail this gen and the main thing preventing me getting a ps3 at launch is my 360 (a lot of games on ps3 that appeal to me are also heading to the 360).

i'm a big horror fan, and it just seems that more of the horror games that have been announced so far have fallen on both systems or on the 360. i know silent hill 5 could well be ps3 exclusive, but right now the 360 seemed the way to go.

owning a 360 and already having access to a lot of the same games the ps3 will play makes it's price all the more unaffordable... but i will be picking one up this gen.

i think it's fair to say that the PS3 is going to lose marketshare this time out (due to stronger competition from Microsoft and Nintendo) and it's a question of how much. a little a lot or something inbetween? i think once you go there it's just wild speculation.

the next game to have a GTA style impact could turn up on any of the new systems.
 

Lapsed

Banned
kpop100 said:
Your illustration of marketshare is terrible. If Sony had only sold 1 PSP to the number of DSs sold it wouldn't have any marketshare at all.

Also unless you post some hardcore facts about exactly who is buying what, I don't think you could make any claims about what system is taking sales away from what else. As it is you made a silly analogy, and threw in some anecdotal evidence for extra effect.

What is so silly about my awesome shoebox console? When it is released, it will have an installed base of one. Hence, the wedges on the pie chart for my competitors shrink. My shoebox console has taken part of their market.

It is not my shoebox comparison that is ridiculous. It is this emphasis on a pie chart. The 3DO "took" part of the PS1's marketshare if you only look at the pie chart. But we know the 3DO had no real effect.

If the PSP took Nintendo's handheld marketshare, then why are DSes selling faster than the GBAs did? The PSP certainly isn't killing the GBA in the West either. We also don't know how many people have bought both DS and PSPs.

There are so many problems with the typical pie-chart "marketshare" that don't make such a graph useful in determining growth or decline by numbers.

Video games are entertainment driven by technology. Sony and MS are placing their emphasis on graphics, and in Sony's case a new storage format. Nintendo is placing their emphasis on controller technology. It's still all driven by tech in one way or another. Sounds like you are again using your personal opinions cloud your view of the industry.

It is true that entertainment, in video games, is carried out by technology. But it would be disasterous to say that technology alone is entertainment. Miyamoto, after releasing his supposed magnum opus game of Mario 64, was shattered that his 'hit' got outsold by those Tamagotchis. While Miyamoto was using sophisticated 3d technology, Tamagotchi used dot matrix. (Perhaps this explains the desire to make Nintendogs in the first place.)

The big question for this console generation is: what is more entertaining? Nintendo decided to put their money on the controller rather than the screen because they think it will create a more entertaining experience. In time, we will have to see what happens.

There is still no HD craze coming from the market. HD television sales have been disapointing and their prices are falling. The Xbox 360 has HD graphics and its sales have not caught fire. This doesn't mean the 360 won't catch fire, but if it does, it won't be because of the HD graphics. Are graphical upgrades as entertaining as they used to be? (I'd say "No" because PS2 is still outselling 360). Have controller innovations proved themselves to be entertaining? (I'd say "Yes" as games as Guitar Hero has proven.)

Despite all the technology, the real source of the entertainment will be the software. We cannot predict what the next 'big game' will be or where it will come from. This is why the entertainment industry is so hard to predict. (Who can predict the next 'hit song' or next 'hit movie'? These things surprise even the best of analysts.)

Some people don't like my PS3 and Wii comparison to the PSP and DS. I felt this was a more solid comparison since they are still in the field of video games. Fine. Here is another example: Walkman and I-pod. Both share almost eerie similar business strategies to the PS3 and Wii. Even worse, the Walkman, what put Sony on the map, was Sony's most successful brand and their 'owning' the portable music market. Along came Apple and completely disrupted it.

Sony has been 'rolling' the Playstations into one another very effectively. The PS1 price drops as soon as the PS2 is released. And PS2 price drops as the PS3 is released. But there is one potential problem: Sony is overshooting the market with the PS3. When people complain about the price or the convergence features, they are saying, "This console doesn't fit my needs. It has overshot them." People would be much happier if the PS3 had less features and a cheaper price.

Due to this 'overshooting' the market, Sony has opened up the possibility for a disruptor to come in. I believe Nintendo has studied the Ipod very closely. I expect the Wii to be like something as if Apple had made it... straight down to the i-tunes store (Virtual Console) to the advertising (is Wii going to be using sillouettes? God help us).

The ipod was on the market for a couple of years before it began to take off. We saw how the DS exploded suddenly in Japan.

Also, keep in mind Hollywood (since games now mimic the movie business model). Movies have been relying too much on special effects. In the 70s, we saw Star Wars and Jaws and said, "WoW!" In the 80s, we saw Terminator and went, "Whoa!" In the 90s, we had Jurassic Park among other films. But today, despite all their special effects, the movies are no longer special. Movie execs are worried because people are not coming to the movies like they used to. Also, all movies have been aimed at the same demographic: young people. Hollywood has not considered making movies for other demographics even though many of them (like senior citizens) would love to see movies if someone would make some for them.

This is occurring now with video games. You cannot keep making games for the same exact demographic and expect infinite growth. And like movies, in the 70s with Pong and Space-Invaders, we said, "Wow!". In the 80s with Super Mario Brothers and Zelda, we again said, "Whoa!". In the 90s, we had the 3d technologies from Mario 64 to Final Fantasy 7 and, again, people said, "Wow!" But now? Are people gathering around HD Xbox 360 demo kiosks and saying, "WOW!"? Do you hear your friendly gamer say, "You know what these games need? Larger storage formats! I tell you, if games had larger storage formats, that would be so entertaining!" Nevermind that with consoles connecting to the Internet, they now have infinite storage space.

Unlike last generation, the game library will not be the sole determination of which console is more entertaining. Rather than a 'console war', I see an 'entertainment war'. Think of the big picture. What will be more entertaining? Wacky controller or upgraded graphics? If Wii somehow does outsell the PS3 and Xbox 360, the eighth generation of consoles will not be focused on better graphics and more horsepower, that is for sure. Such a change off of the sustaining technologies would mark a substancial shift since... well, since the early 1980s. No wonder Nintendo code-named their system the 'Revolution'.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
For all those people saying "Oh, just wait for a price drop and everything will be fine and dandy", I ask you, some people will wait, but the question is, how long will they wait. And more importantly, will PUBLISHERS wait?

I think it says a lot that so many people on GAF (which I would consider a place full of "hardcore" gamers) are deciding to wait for a good enough drop in price.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Holy shit at some of the names I remember. Boa Constrictor was that weird guy with the snake fetish. Saturnman was back in the day too. The Artful Dodger, Gigadent, Mjolnir.

Kickin' it old school.
 
Great posts Lapsed, but your shoebox anecdote has one fatal flaw: lack of presence to accompany said sold:shipped ratio. The reason why the Nintendo DS is doing so well isn't just because its ratio is so high, but in terms of sales and overall mainstream presence it's got all the momentum of a freight train.
 

bud

Member
"I could never say no to rich, colorful and detailed 128-bit graphics. The sound capabilities, an area often ignored, shines on this platform like you wouldn't believe. Best of all, you're not stuck with CD's anymore, it uses high-density storage disks, allowing developers to cram even more fun in each game."

damn, ssx goes way back:lol
 
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