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Lets speculate on NGP games and how they will play

I do think that Nintendo is the unquestionable master at developing fun games that you can start playing really quickly and are good to play in short bursts.

Elite Beat Agents, Tetris and Mario Kart all did this incredibly well, and so does Pilotwings.

By minimizing menus, load times, cutscenes, and using simplified controls, Nintendo manages to make games that are great for pick up and play.

The missions/levels are always short (you can usually beat them in under three minutes). You beat them in a few minutes, unlock something, and can leave satisfied. Or since it took so little time to beat the mission and get positive reinforcement, you're encouraged to go ahead and boot up another mission. Each mission feels distinct and unique so it never gets tedious.

I really think this is formula that Sony needs to adopt for some of it's titles if they want to win.
 

KAL2006

Banned
Stephen Colbert said:
It's actually really beautiful how well the resolution has worked out for Sony.

Games developed for the PSP, as well as 720p and 1080p games will all render perfectly on the NGP, the aspect ratio and resolution couldn't be better.

It's not only about the resolution, it is also about the size of the screen itself. I loved the PSP screen size and it's great how it is slightly bigger now. I hated playing from a big PSP screen then going onto playing a DS screen, I am so used to the size of the PSP screen, anything smaller makes me squint too much. You need a big screen especially for those detailed 3D action games like Uncharted, COD, MGS and etc.

The combination of big screen size, high resolution, OLED will sure to make the screen seem great.


Stephen Colbert said:
I do think that Nintendo is the unquestionable master at developing fun games that you can start playing really quickly and are good to play in short bursts.

Elite Beat Agents, Tetris and Mario Kart all did this incredibly well, and so does Pilotwings.

By minimizing menus, load times, cutscenes, and using simplified controls, Nintendo manages to make games that are great for pick up and play.

The missions/levels are always short (you can usually beat them in under three minutes). You beat them in a few minutes, unlock something, and can leave satisfied. Or since it took so little time to beat the mission and get positive reinforcement, you're encouraged to go ahead and boot up another mission. Each mission feels distinct and unique so it never gets tedious.

I really think this is formula that Sony needs to adopt for some of it's titles if they want to win.

Very true, I think with the PSP Sony have tried this with Locoroco, Patapon, Echocrome, Crush, Lumines and etc. Some franchises just automatically go in this category like racing games like Burnout and MotorStorm, or fighter like Street Fighter, or other sony franchises like LittleBigPlanet. With NGP having touchscreen we should have quicker menus, and with NGP having carts we should have less load times. Also because DS had a touchscreen, it got games like Layton, Picross, Scribblenauts, Brain Training, Nintendogs and etc. Most of those games are pick up and play, with NGP having touchscreen, hopefully it gets more of those types of games though I still want my traditional games.

I would like to say out of my DS collection not many games are actually pick up and play, for example Phoenix Wright, it takes time to get deep into the game and you cannot finish a case in 15 minutes. Other games in my DS collection that are not pick up and play are all those JRPGs, Castlevania games, Dementium, adventure games like Hotel Dusk. Maybe I am just into games that are not pick up and play lol.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
I will say this. That thing has GOT to launch with either Killzone or Uncharted. It can't come out with nothing like the 3DS did. Especially since I'm sure Nintendo will have a new Pokemon out by the time this comes out
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Stephen Colbert said:
Very well said. You're right. Sony has corrected all of their mistakes. This generation, the 3DS has one and only one advantage over the NGP, and that is Nintendo games.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the 3D screen is an actual advantage. Hard to believe you'd gloss over that.
 

KAL2006

Banned
pharmboy044 said:
Can we speculate a release date for the NGP from this? Would this strengthen the rumors that the NGP is coming out in Europe this fall?

Well FIFA games usually come out in October. The last NGP rumor release date I heard was sometime in November, I think a French leak said it was sometime in November and the rumor of developers of NGP getting deadlines if they want to make their games for NGP November launch.
 

KAL2006

Banned
Plinko said:
Whether you want to admit it or not, the 3D screen is an actual advantage. Hard to believe you'd gloss over that.

3D screen is a huge advantage, but I think the advantages of the NGP outweigh the 3DS, if I had to choose the 3D screen or NGP's high res 5" OLED screen, I would easily go for NGP screen. I hope an NGP revision in the future has a 3D screen.

Anyway lets not make this into a 3DS vs NGP thread, I think both handhelds can co-exist and both can be successful.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
pharmboy044 said:
Can we speculate a release date for the NGP from this? Would this strengthen the rumors that the NGP is coming out in Europe this fall?

F1 2011 will come out in september, and devs confirmed that NGP version is in the works. This will be great launch game.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
KAL2006 said:
3D screen is a huge advantage, but I think the advantages of the NGP outweigh the 3DS, if I had to choose the 3D screen or NGP's high res 5" OLED screen, I would easily go for NGP screen. I hope an NGP revision in the future has a 3D screen.

Anyway lets not make this into a 3DS vs NGP thread, I think both handhelds can co-exist and both can be successful.

Again, all I was doing was correcting somebody on their ridiculous comment and you come in declaring that the NGP will be the greatest thing ever. You're excited for the system--we get it. You don't have to do this to every post. Are you sure you don't work for Sony?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
DieH@rd said:
F1 2011 will come out in september, and devs confirmed that NGP version is in the works. This will be great launch game.

I think they suggested the handheld versions would come 'later' - or, at least, that their release dates would be announced later, that the September date doesn't necessarily apply to them. So I would not take it as an indicator of NGP's release window.
 

KAL2006

Banned
Plinko said:
Again, all I was doing was correcting somebody on their ridiculous comment and you come in declaring that the NGP will be the greatest thing ever. You're excited for the system--we get it. You don't have to do this to every post. Are you sure you don't work for Sony?

Sorry I got carried away, I thought we were comparing screens :)
 

KAL2006

Banned
Heavy Rain or a similar adventure game can work quite good on the NGP

Using the backtouch, touchscreen and motion controls can be used to do realistic movements. For example when you want to push a person away from you you simply thrust the NGP forward. When you are in a chase and need to run you swipe up and down on the backtouch with both your index fingers.
 

rpmurphy

Member
Plinko said:
Whether you want to admit it or not, the 3D screen is an actual advantage. Hard to believe you'd gloss over that.
The second screen also. It's one of the nicest enhancements that the DS had for gameplay and it's a little disappointing that it's not taken seriously into design by others.
 

KAL2006

Banned
rpmurphy said:
The second screen also. It's one of the nicest enhancements that the DS had for gameplay and it's a little disappointing that it's not taken seriously into design by others.

For me personally that isn't an advantage, most games don't make much use of it aside from inventory, maps and etc. I would have rather Nintendo have ditched the 2nd screen and make the primary screen even better. Of course having backwards compatibility was important. I think the 2nd screen is a waste it just wasted battery life powering a 2nd screen.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
KAL2006 said:
For me personally that isn't an advantage, most games don't make much use of it aside from inventory, maps and etc. I would have rather Nintendo have ditched the 2nd screen and make the primary screen even better. Of course having backwards compatibility was important. I think the 2nd screen is a waste it just wasted battery life powering a 2nd screen.

Saying the 2nd screen is a "waste" is asinine. You actually just listed the benefit of having those screens. Not only does it allow for an extended playfield, having inventory on the lower screen is a huge benefit in games like Zelda where all it takes is one touch to switch equipment. Also, writing on maps and making notes in certain adventure/puzzle games is a plus. I actually wish the NGP would have went this route.
 

Takao

Banned
Two screens really wasn't a great idea. It limits the ergonomic design to a clam shell, and splits your focus. It's also laughable that people recommend using it in conjunction with the d-pad for controls. Talk about hand cramps.
 

Agent X

Member
Plinko said:
Saying the 2nd screen is a "waste" is asinine. You actually just listed the benefit of having those screens. Not only does it allow for an extended playfield, having inventory on the lower screen is a huge benefit in games like Zelda where all it takes is one touch to switch equipment. Also, writing on maps and making notes in certain adventure/puzzle games is a plus. I actually wish the NGP would have went this route.

They don't need a physical second screen. They can use split screen instead, and use half the screen for maps, inventory, or note taking.
 

KAL2006

Banned
Plinko said:
Saying the 2nd screen is a "waste" is asinine. You actually just listed the benefit of having those screens. Not only does it allow for an extended playfield, having inventory on the lower screen is a huge benefit in games like Zelda where all it takes is one touch to switch equipment. Also, writing on maps and making notes in certain adventure/puzzle games is a plus. I actually wish the NGP would have went this route.

things like maps and writing notes (I heard the new Uncharted has this feature) could easily be done by pressing start button, I just feel that wasting battery life for powering a 2nd screen for having these things like maps, inventory, and notes is a waste. But that is a personal opinion I just feel I haven't seen enough games on DS that truly took advantage of the 2nd screen, however again it is a personal opinion, I am sure many folks may think it is an advantage having a 2nd screen.


Agent X said:
They don't need a physical second screen. They can use split screen instead, and use half the screen for maps, inventory, or note taking.

that is a bad idea, why not just press start button to bring up the map, inventory and note taking.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Takao said:
Two screens really wasn't a great idea. It limits the ergonomic design to a clam shell, and splits your focus. It's also laughable that people recommend using it in conjunction with the d-pad for controls. Talk about hand cramps.

This is true. It shouldn't ever be done--Metroid Prime Hunters is a prime example.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
KAL2006 said:
things like maps and writing notes (I heard the new Uncharted has this feature) could easily be done by pressing start button, I just feel that wasting battery life for powering a 2nd screen for having these things like maps, inventory, and notes is a waste. But that is a personal opinion I just feel I haven't seen enough games on DS that truly took advantage of the 2nd screen, however again it is a personal opinion, I am sure many folks may think it is an advantage having a 2nd screen.

And that defeats the one of the purposes of the second screen--saving time. If you've ever played through a Zelda game, you must press the start button to change inventory about 300 times. When there is loading times to get the inventory screen up, that's a ton of time wasted.
 

Agent X

Member
KAL2006 said:
that is a bad idea, why not just press start button to bring up the map, inventory and note taking.

It would depend on the game, but generally, I agree, just tap a button to bring up the map or a virtual notepad. For inventory, if the inventory is already represented on screen, then you could just tap the onscreen icon to activate it.

A split-screen technically would not be needed for any reason. However, when people say that "ports of DS games aren't possible because of no second screen", I mention split screen so they can see how the same type of interface as a DS game could be easily replicated on a single, large touch screen.

For that reason, I'd much prefer to have one large, high-reslution touch screen, over two smaller, lower resolution screens (one of which isn't even touch enabled). There's so much more flexibility that way.
 

onQ123

Member
Stephen Colbert said:
It's actually really beautiful how well the resolution has worked out for Sony.

Games developed for the PSP, as well as 720p and 1080p games will all render perfectly on the NGP, the aspect ratio and resolution couldn't be better.

I think that was the plan

pretty smart too because devs can make PSP games that's NGP enhanced if they don't want to make a full jump to NGP & leave the PSP customers behind & still get people with the NGP to buy the game.

& have PSN games that work on PS3 & NGP 1080P & 720P on PS3 & 540P on NGP with free AA


also what if?

This

Sony's PS2 adaptor patent

was actually

This?

sony-ngp-price-thumb-550xauto-56312.jpg


not that I would care I have a PS3 that can play PS2 games & still have a PS2 that I can take back from my niece if I really wanted to play any of my PS2 games


but if the NGP is being made in a way that it could play PS2 games I think Sony would use that as a way for people to connect the NGP up to the PS3 & use the PS3 drive to play PS2 games

so all the NGP really would be doing is reading the PS2 DVD from the PS3 drive & sending the video to the PS3 to display on your TV.
 
get2sammyb said:
It kinda worries me that we gauge the quality of platforms via their commercial success full-stop. I know that can be an indicator of quality, but surely its the quality of the gaming experience that's paramount in a video game system?
The quality of a platform is determined by the quality of the games available for the platform. The PSP has a lot of great games, but not as many as the DS. Without any games the platform is pretty much useless.

I don't understand the excitement behind the touch on the back of the device. Seems pretty useless to me. I wouldn't be able to use it to touch things in the playing area for example, I would have no idea where my fingers aligned with what was on the screen. And it's an area on the back of the device that I can relax and rest my hands on. What if I want to just put the device down for a minute?
 
Agent X said:
It would depend on the game, but generally, I agree, just tap a button to bring up the map or a virtual notepad. For inventory, if the inventory is already represented on screen, then you could just tap the onscreen icon to activate it.

A split-screen technically would not be needed for any reason. However, when people say that "ports of DS games aren't possible because of no second screen", I mention split screen so they can see how the same type of interface as a DS game could be easily replicated on a single, large touch screen.

For that reason, I'd much prefer to have one large, high-reslution touch screen, over two smaller, lower resolution screens (one of which isn't even touch enabled). There's so much more flexibility that way.
I disagree big time. Splitting the display is a bad idea to me. Then people will be focused on two areas at once and it seems like a waste of valuable screen real estate. Having one of two screens used to display information or a map means that you normally do not have to focus on that screen.

You simply could not do The World Ends With You on a single screen system. Also, the Etrian Odyssey games would not be nearly as good if you had to press a button to load the map.


onQ123 said:
also what if?

This

Sony's PS2 adaptor patent

was actually

This?

sony-ngp-price-thumb-550xauto-56312.jpg


not that I would care I have a PS3 that can play PS2 games & still have a PS2 that I can take back from my niece if I really wanted to play any of my PS2 games

but if the NGP is being made in a way that it could play PS2 games I think Sony would use that as a way for people to connect the NGP up to the PS3 & use the PS3 drive to play PS2 games

so all the NGP really would be doing is reading the PS2 DVD from the PS3 drive & sending the video to the PS3 to display on your TV.
If the NGP can play PS2 games on the go, I'm definitely in day 1. I don't think they'd blow that by requiring you to use it in conjunction with the PS3.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
onQ123 said:
not that I would care I have a PS3 that can play PS2 games & still have a PS2 that I can take back from my niece if I really wanted to play any of my PS2 games

but if the NGP is being made in a way that it could play PS2 games I think Sony would use that as a way for people to connect the NGP up to the PS3 & use the PS3 drive to play PS2 games

so all the NGP really would be doing is reading the PS2 DVD from the PS3 drive & sending the video to the PS3 to display on your TV.

Don't underestimate the importance of having playable PS2 games on the NGP. That would be a gigantic plus for Sony. That fact alone could be the tipping point for many to buy the console at launch. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see they've kept the lid on that patent until the NGP was released.
 

KAL2006

Banned
Plinko said:
And that defeats the one of the purposes of the second screen--saving time. If you've ever played through a Zelda game, you must press the start button to change inventory about 300 times. When there is loading times to get the inventory screen up, that's a ton of time wasted.

Yes I have played Zelda a lot, this could be solved on NGP, say you have that small inventory at the top corner of the screen that shows what button is assigned for what item. You can simply tap the item on the touchscreen which would then cycle items for that particular button or just simply press the d-pad to cycle through the items. And maybe you would not even need to do that much, NGP has extra L3 and R3 buttons as well as a backtouch where you can assign more buttons. And as long as a menu doesn't take long to load it isn't a problem anyway, many games have quick select menus anyway
 

rpmurphy

Member
KAL2006 said:
things like maps and writing notes (I heard the new Uncharted has this feature) could easily be done by pressing start button, I just feel that wasting battery life for powering a 2nd screen for having these things like maps, inventory, and notes is a waste. But that is a personal opinion I just feel I haven't seen enough games on DS that truly took advantage of the 2nd screen, however again it is a personal opinion, I am sure many folks may think it is an advantage having a 2nd screen.
You either have an increased HUD footprint, or have the information be put away into a menu that you bring up. Even just speaking of using the secondary screen for a map, it is hugely beneficial when you could simply glance at it to see where you are instead of stopping the game entirely. There's being able to see objectives on the map, non-critical but useful information (like in NSMB DS you can see which big coin you missed and your location in the level), all these things add up to shaving off menu navigation tedium which is more important on portables.

If you want to see a game that uses the two screens well, look at Rocket Slime. The tanks battles can't be done on a single screen because you need to see what's going on outside.
 

KAL2006

Banned
rpmurphy said:
You either have an increased HUD footprint, or have the information be put away into a menu that you bring up. Even just speaking of using the secondary screen for a map, it is hugely beneficial when you could simply glance at it to see where you are instead of stopping the game entirely. There's being able to see objectives on the map, non-critical but useful information (like in NSMB DS you can see which big coin you missed and your location in the level), all these things add up to shaving off menu navigation tedium which is more important on portables.

If you want to see a game that uses the two screens well, look at Rocket Slime. The tanks battles can't be done on a single screen because you need to see what's going on outside.

whats stopping having a minimap on the top right of a screen, the NGP screen is big enough to include these things. also you can use the touch screen to increase/decrease the size of the map by pinching it, or scrolling the map and etc.
 
Plinko said:
Don't underestimate the importance of having playable PS2 games on the NGP. That would be a gigantic plus for Sony. That fact alone could be the tipping point for many to buy the console at launch. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see they've kept the lid on that patent until the NGP was released.

After announcing a full PSP emulator when everyone said it was simply impossible I wouldn't be surprised by PS2 emulation. They already have pretty solid EE emulation.

However I doubt it would be so huge, simply because unlike a PS3, NGP doesn't have disc drive. You'd be limited to buying PS2 classics on PSN, and your own PS2 DVD collection would be useless.

But the idea of playing FFXII on this thing feels pretty good.
 

KAL2006

Banned
How similar are PSP and PS2 architecture, the reason I ask this is because NGP can emulate PSP and PS3 can't (just look at how some the Minis even have slowdown).
 
KAL2006 said:
How similar are PSP and PS2 architecture, the reason I ask this is because NGP can emulate PSP and PS3 can't (just look at how some the Minis even have slowdown).

Is it really a case of PS3 not being able to emulate PSP? I think if Sony ever decided they wanted to sell all PSP games to PS3 owners, they could make a good emulator.
 

Agent X

Member
ScrabbleDude said:
I disagree big time. Splitting the display is a bad idea to me. Then people will be focused on two areas at once and it seems like a waste of valuable screen real estate. Having one of two screens used to display information or a map means that you normally do not have to focus on that screen.

You simply could not do The World Ends With You on a single screen system. Also, the Etrian Odyssey games would not be nearly as good if you had to press a button to load the map.

There's absolutely no reason why you couldn't replicate the two-screen setup of the DS using the NGP in vertical orientation. People wouldn't be "focused on two areas" any more than they would be on the DS.

If the primary gameplay on the DS game occurs on the upper screen, then it would be the upper half of the split screen on the NGP. People would still be focused on the primary playfield, and look down at the map/notes/inventory only when necessary. It would work exactly the same way as it does on the DS now.

Having a single high-resolution screen brings many advantages. One of the obvious ones is that the "bottom screen" doesn't have to fill exactly half of the usable screen real estate. They could, for example, use just 1/4 of the screen for the map or notes, leaving the other 75% as the primary playfield. Or, as KAL2006 suggested, you could shrink or enlarge the map, or drag it to another corner of the screen if you want.

Like I said, there's a lot more flexibility available this way.
 

onQ123

Member
ScrabbleDude said:
I disagree big time. Splitting the display is a bad idea to me. Then people will be focused on two areas at once and it seems like a waste of valuable screen real estate. Having one of two screens used to display information or a map means that you normally do not have to focus on that screen.

You simply could not do The World Ends With You on a single screen system. Also, the Etrian Odyssey games would not be nearly as good if you had to press a button to load the map.


If the NGP can play PS2 games on the go, I'm definitely in day 1. I don't think they'd blow that by requiring you to use it in conjunction with the PS3.


it wouldn't need the PS3 to play PS2 games on the go

but since it can play PS2 games they can use the PS3's DVD drive to play PS2 games that you already have.

more like the PS3 is just being used as a DVD drive & display ,


& maybe even as a way that you can mount your PS2 game into the NGP & have it registered to your PSN account so you can Play it on the go for a few days
 

rpmurphy

Member
KAL2006 said:
whats stopping having a minimap on the top right of a screen, the NGP screen is big enough to include these things.
Yeah I suppose, but probably not to the same degree and, again it takes up space on the screen where the action is. Being able to travel the overworld in RPG's by looking at both the entire overworld map and the local area works nicely for the DS.
 

KAL2006

Banned
rpmurphy said:
Yeah I suppose, but probably not to the same degree and, again it takes up space on the screen where the action is. Being able to travel the overworld in RPG's by looking at both the entire overworld map and the local area works nicely for the DS.

Even if it takes up the screen where the action, lets say a map takes up 30% of a screen, which I doubt would ever happen or be needed, but lets just say it does. The screen would still be bigger than a DS screen. And again you can use the touchscreen to enlarge the map, move it to where you want, zoom in and out and etc.
 

KAL2006

Banned
onQ123 said:
it wouldn't need the PS3 to play PS2 games on the go

but since it can play PS2 games they can use the PS3's DVD drive to play PS2 games that you already have.

more like the PS3 is just being used as a DVD drive & display ,


& maybe even as a way that you can mount your PS2 game into the NGP & have it registered to your PSN account so you can Play it on the go for a few days

Interesting theory, it would temp some people who want to play PS2 games on their PS3's to buying an NGP.
 

onQ123

Member
Plinko said:
Don't underestimate the importance of having playable PS2 games on the NGP. That would be a gigantic plus for Sony. That fact alone could be the tipping point for many to buy the console at launch. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see they've kept the lid on that patent until the NGP was released.


I'm all for it PS2 on NGP to me is way better than PS2 on the PS3

because if I'm playing my PS3 the last thing that I even think about is my PS2 games but being able to play them on a handheld is something to be happy about also I want Dreamcast games on NGP
 

KAL2006

Banned
been doing some digging and I found the SEGA meeting minutes leak with SCEA


these 2 things are the most interesting

PS2 emulator for PS3 (confidential)
SCEA wants to sell all PS2 titles on PSN (GTA Vice City/Sonic/etc)

DC Digital Titles
If we provide a list of DC titles SCEA will let us know which ones they’re interested in having exclusively.
If we give them a long period of exclusivity they’ll give us more marketing support.

EDIT:
I heard DC hardware is quite similar to PSP, what about PS2 is that at all similar to PSP.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Uuh, you guys are crazy if you think people will regularly use the NGP in split screen mode to make it work like a DS... Yeah, in theory you can do it, mainly for touch based games (PSP style isn't the most ergonomic), but at best you'll only see it done for some indie quirky 3DS games trying to maximise their sales... Just because it works in theory doesn't mean it will be done in practice. Two screens isn't what people will buy the NGP for and isn't what will regularly be offered from developers.
 

Yasir

Member
Would have been cool to see the NGP have android OS and access to the android store. Sony hardware and Apple software :)

Anyway, I loved the psp for the platformers. The Daxter and Ratchet games, I hope the NGP keeps the 3D platformers alive outside of Mario and console Ratchets (oh and those Film tie ins).
 

KAL2006

Banned
El Rauha said:
Would have been cool to see the NGP have android OS and access to the android store. Sony hardware and Apple software :)

Anyway, I loved the psp for the platformers. The Daxter and Ratchet games, I hope the NGP keeps the 3D platformers alive outside of Mario and console Ratchets (oh and those Film tie ins).

Hopefully PS Suite gets a lot of support and hopefully it isn't just games but actual apps too.
 

Takao

Banned
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the aim of PlayStation Suite is to create premium games on Android. Like games above $1.
 

KAL2006

Banned
Takao said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the aim of PlayStation Suite is to create premium games on Android. Like games above $1.

It's basically going to be another Minis except this time compatible with latest android devices and NGP. The prices will be more expensive than appstore (so you won't see $1 games) most likely the same price as Minis. I have also read that Sony will also offer not just games but apps too.

EDIT:
actually weren't Minis restricted to making really small games, I am guessing PS Suite allows for small or bigger games, so I detract my statement to comparing it to Minis, it will be more like iOS but more organised and easy to find quality games.
 
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