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[Anton Sugar]

So people have been arguing with the guy not knowing what his point even is.

Not really.

Women wear yoga pants because they want to show off their ass:

While creeps are creeps, the whole yoga pants thing is kind of stupid and needs to stop. Is it THAT comfy or do you just want to show your ass?

Wear a skirt over your yoga pants:

Whats wrong with sweat pants? Or other "comfy" clothing? IF they like their yoga pants so much, why is it hard to wear a skirt over it? What happened to those? I don't wear pants showing off the size of my dick because it's comfortable. Whats wrong with maxi dresses? There are alternatives to this whole wave of people wearing yoga pants, and even worse leggings.

Leggings AREN'T pants. It's an undergarment, and it should be worn like one, meaning with other clothing on top of it.

Women have a responsibility to protect themselves from creepers, ostensibly by not wearing yoga pants:

It's men's responsibility to have self control, but it's women's responsibility to protect themselves.

Oh, I'm going to go walk around with my money hanging from my pockets. It's more comfortable. My pockets don't feel as full.

Oh? I got robbed? Fuck. It's not my fault.

Fucking TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. I'm not saying creeps won't be creeps. I never said that.

Don't make the job EASY for creeps. If you wear yoga pants. There is no effort for them to take a picture of your ass. If you were a skirt over that, they at least have to get within close proximity. Like that link above of the guy getting caught, he got caught because he had to get so close. It increases the risk for them and increases the chance someone will catch them, and when you do? Hit them in the god damn dick.

Don't just HAND the opportunity to them.

Lock your damn car. Set the alarm on your house before you go.

You can't prevent your car or house being broken into, but you can fucking take measure to prevent this.

Give me a fucking break.

Particularly this last one is what got a lot of people riled up. "Don't make it easy for them" is a common excuse used to lay the blame at the feet of the victim.

 

[Uno Venova]

No. I understood exactly what he meant, and there isn't some huge distinction he keeps crying about.

well for some reason a lot of people were confused, about 4 people think those points mean it's okay for any harassment.

 

[Devolution]

well for some reason a lot of people were confused, about 4 people think those points mean it's okay for any harassment.

He wants to shame creepers but still blame women who don't wear what he considers modest or conservative. He wants to pretend like he's not but he is, and we're calling it out.

 

[B!TCH]

So people have been arguing with the guy not knowing what his point even is.

You should explain what his point is then since no one else but you seems to know what it is and he is apparently incapable of doing so himself.

Yes, people tend to react badly when they recognize that you are a judgmental, fascist asshole. Imagine that.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Theres nothing you can really do to stop it though.

 

[Uno Venova]

You should explain what his point is then since no one else but you seems to know what it is and he is apparently incapable of doing so himself.

Yes, people tend to react badly when they recognize that you are a judgmental, fascist asshole. Imagine that.

No I'm not the only one who knows, a couple people above seemed to get it, I don't want to argue for him, but some people seem to be misrepresenting him.

 

[Barrage]

Yoga pants are comfortable, ok sure. But they're basically just an outer laying of material over your ass and legs. You can see everything. So again, sure, wear whatever you like, but don't be surprised that it will attract the opposite sex when we can pretty much see your ass just in a different color (though I'm not saying you can take pictures of them randomly without consent).

While creeps are creeps, the whole yoga pants thing is kind of stupid and needs to stop. Is it THAT comfy or do you just want to show your ass?

See, here is my problem with this, and everyone else in the "Yoga Pants MAKE me ogly you" crew.

Yoga Pants aren't just worn by those sexy, hyprocritical women that want to drink in men's attention-yet-judge-you-for-it-oh-what-a-cruel-world. They're also worn by children. My 8 year old niece wears yoga pants, to gymnastics, to her play auditions, and EVEN at school.

But, why? Is it because my 8 year old niece is using her feminine wiles to attract men's justified eyes to her 70 pound frame? After all, just because she believes in Santa Claus doesn't mean she isn't "asking for it". It's like she's leaving her car unlocked, right?

Or MAYBE she's just, and this is TYPICAL for women, using those Yoga pants (that 70% of her classmates wear) to get male attention. Once Billy stops eating his own boogers, he'll finally notice her, beginning the female biological cycle of converting Attention to Carbon Monoxide (similar to the breathing system of us regular humans!)

Or MAYBE she's wearing them for an innocous reason now, but once puberty kicks and she converts to Succubus Mode that comes with Dem Ol' Titties, she'll realize that those comfortable leggings she wore for over six years were the perfect weapons to drive men crazy!

Or MAYBE, Creeps shouldn't use women's apparel as reason or excuse for not functioning like a member of society.

Ugh.

 

[B!TCH]

No I'm not the only one who knows, a couple people above seemed to get it, I don't want to argue for him, but some people seem to be misrepresenting him.

So you don't know either. Got it.

 

[H.Protagonist]

Theres nothing you can really do to stop it though.

Shaming those who behave like that and not celebrating such photos as well as not just shrugging it off as "boys will be boys" would be a great start.

 

[phosphor112]

He wants to shame creepers but still blame women who don't wear what he considers modest or conservative. He wants to pretend like he's not but he is, and we're calling it out.

No I don't. I think women at a beach or pool should be able to wear a bikini. It's standard for the social norm. It doesn't justify creepers taking pictures one bit.

If you think I'm some Muslim wanting to impose burkahs on everything, you can take that argument elsewhere, because I live in America because of... FREEDOMS! You know those awesome things we have? If I wanted to live under the backwards laws of Saudi Arabia, I'd live there, not here.

People have freedoms, people will take advantage of you for your freedoms.

It's like we have freedom of speech. Someone will say I'm a savage and a Jihadist and the US should support Israel to kill me. Now, I have my freedom to say they'll be sent to hell fire and react in a rash manner, but I choose to react in a rational manner. I understand they can say what they want, I voice my opinion, and then go on my way.

People have freedom to wear ALMOST anything they want, someone wants to call a girl a slut or whatever, if she wants to change, it's up to her, if she doesn't it's also up to her, but reacting one way over another gets different responses.

Regardless, whether you react one way or the other SOME people will still want me to be killed for being a Jihadist, and SOME people will still call a girl a whore or talk about their ass.

 

[Devolution]

Shaming those who behave like that and not celebrating such photos as well as not just shrugging it off as "boys will be boys" would be a great start.

For some reason people think this is too hard.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Shaming those who behave like that and not celebrating such photos as well as not just shrugging it off as "boys will be boys" would be a great start.

.

 

[Uno Venova]

So you don't know either. Got it.

I really dont know why you're so snarky.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Shaming those who behave like that and not celebrating such photos as well as not just shrugging it off as "boys will be boys" would be a great start.

Yes but sadly that will never happen.

 

[Devolution]

Yes but sadly that will never happen.

Not true. You can cut down on the sheer number of people who think certain attitudes are acceptable. You're basically ignoring all of the strides feminism has made against sexual harassment.

 

[Blasty]

When you did something idiotic and got injured, did your parents ever lecture you?

Nobody would be blaming the victim, just calling them out for doing something stupid. People are way too quick to call victim blaming, misogyny, and sexism.

Someone joins a gang and ends up dying. We all understand that it isn't there fault, but that person is inevitably going to get call out for doing something stupid.

Someone chooses not to wear a seat-belt and gets hurt because of it. Same thing, everyone will understand that it wasn't there fault, but people will still question them for not taking precautionary measures.

If I were to walk around in a pretty dangerous place, money hanging from my jacket, and end up getting robbed, a lot of people would laugh at my stupidity.

Situations like this happen all the time and threads are made about them. People question something the victim did. Whenever it happens to involve women however, it sends GAF into an uproar.

 

[Jake McLargeHuge]

Shaming those who behave like that and not celebrating such photos as well as not just shrugging it off as "boys will be boys" would be a great start.

Cutting off avenues to display the pictures with impunity is probably the best way to go. I'd wager the guys who get a thrill out of taking a pic of a girl's ass are well past the point of shame.

I don't count out $300 I took out of the atm in the middle of a gas station, because it matters enough to me to not go through the ordeal because shouting from the rooftops "It never should've happened!" isn't good enough for me. On the same level, Phos thinks if it really cuts to the bone, then you should probably cover up that sweet ass with something "less" provocative. Or understand this shit is going to happen from time to time and there are precious few options out there to deal with it.

 

[endresults]

I love yoga pants and I love the women who wear them, just not enough to take pictures of them.

 

[Jake McLargeHuge]

Not true. You can cut down on the sheer number of people who think certain attitudes are acceptable. You're basically ignoring all of the strides feminism has made against sexual harassment.

How much of an effect did shaming have on that and how much was it legislature? Serious question.

 

[Anton Sugar]

When you did something idiotic and got injured, did your parents ever lecture you?

Nobody would be blaming the victim, just calling them out for doing something stupid. People are way too quick to call victim blaming, misogyny, and sexism.

Someone joins a gang and ends up dying. We all understand that it isn't there fault, but that person is inevitably going to get call out for doing something stupid.

Someone chooses not to wear a seat-belt and gets hurt because of it. Same thing, everyone will understand that it wasn't there fault, but people will still question them for not taking precautionary measures.

If I were to walk around in a pretty dangerous place, money hanging from my jacket, and end up getting robbed, a lot of people would laugh at my stupidity.

Situations like this happen all the time and threads are made about them. People question something the victim did. Whenever it happens to involve women however, it sends GAF into an uproar.

You know that a key part of being a victim is that you are a TARGET, right?

If you choose to do something idiotic when you were young, you're not a victim.

If someone joins a gang and is murdered, he/she is a victim.

If someone chooses to not wear a seatbelt, he/she is not a victim.

If someone walks around a dangerous neighborhood and is mugged, he/she is a victim.

If someone wears certain clothing and someone creeps on/assaults him/her, he/she is a victim.

Victims are targets.

How fucking hard is this to understand?

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Shaming those who behave like that and not celebrating such photos as well as not just shrugging it off as "boys will be boys" would be a great start.

What do you do about the fact that there are women who most certainly wear such clothing in order to be looked at, don't care and might even enjoy being stared at?

There are tons of levels of exhibitionism. I've spoken quite candidly with females about why they choose to wear certain clothing and it most certainly is for the purpose of being noticed.. nor are they concerned with someone being "creepy" unless it actually is to the point someone appears to be threatening.

I get it.. we could be shaming more men for staring at women.. I personally find the way some guys act in public disgusting myself. The rather obvious turn and stare after a girl walks by.

But IMO? They look like fools already.. and other than someone getting to see something you.. wore outside in public knowing full well you would be seen.. what harm has been done?

That's where it does become something that is hard for me to consider some huge deal. My girlfriend wears tight clothing.. high heals, etc.. she enjoys it.. she enjoys that it might get her attention.

She's not harmed by creeps being creeps.. and these people aren't getting praised by society or a bunch of positive attention for what they do. They are just out there being creepy..

Meh.

If it really bothers any woman that much, then I feel for them.. I'm not here to shame someone for being upset by something.. but I'm not entirely sure it's a 100% healthy thing to be upset about.

edit: I realize your comment was only about the photo thing.. my post was more "in general" what do you do about dudes being creepy.. I do think we could probably do more shaming and even legislation that could help slow down the amount of actual pictures taken. But I still suggest in the mean time people not get too worked up about it.

 

[shadyspace]

I don't find women interesting enough to consider doing this.

 

[phosphor112]

I love yoga pants and I love the women who wear them, just not enough to take pictures of them.

avatarquote.gif

 

[Alligatorjandro]

It should be common sense to know that taking pictures this way is wrong.

 

[jaxword]

dp

 

[Deleted member 47027]

If you choose to do something idiotic when you were young, you're not a victim.

If someone joins a gang and is murdered, he/she is a victim.

Are gangs a choice, or inevitable?

 

[shadyspace]

Also anybody else hate taking pictures. I hate taking pictures, it's so cumbersome and they're always blurry.

 

[Trey]

What is considered "celebrating" these shot?

 

[B!TCH]

I really dont know why you're so snarky.

It's because you are making evasive statements without firmly stating your own opinion.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Are gangs a choice, or inevitable?

Gangs are a choice. Being murdered is not.

 

[Mister0079]

I love yoga pants and I love the women who wear them, just not enough to take pictures of them.

Yoga pants are amazing.

 

[phosphor112]

Gangs are a choice. Being murdered is not.

Taking precaution is a choice.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Gangs are a choice. Being murdered is not.

Well, would you say there are choices you could make that would help you not get murdered? I'm not trying to be a shit, I just really feel that there's things you can actively make a choice about that would lower the chances of something like that happening, especially if you were in a gang.

It's obviously REALLY different with regards to telling people how to dress and stopping random creeps - so we can totally abandon this conversation if it's too far off the topic, but I see some parallels in how I feel about being murdered (which has never happened to me, honest) - and making choices to minimize the risk. Where does making choices to minimize the risk of murder fit into all this?

 

[Uno Venova]

It should be common sense to know that taking pictures this way is wrong.

Yeah I think the all know they are creeps and are ashamed of telling anyone about this.

It's because you are making evasive statements without firmly stating your own opinion.

The only problem I had was a few people misrepresenting him and suggesting he and others think sexually harassing a woman was okay or deserved. I did say my feelings earlier on, that this was very creepy.

 

[Kite]

See, here is my problem with this, and everyone else in the "Yoga Pants MAKE me ogly you" crew.

Yoga Pants aren't just worn by those sexy, hyprocritical women that want to drink in men's attention-yet-judge-you-for-it-oh-what-a-cruel-world. They're also worn by children. My 8 year old niece wears yoga pants, to gymnastics, to her play auditions, and EVEN at school.

Little girls don't do it for me, sorry bro. It is all about context, a 6 year old in a nurses outfit gets a "aww nice Halloween costume" and a grown woman gets a "rawwr :3"

Women can wear whatever they want in public for whatever reason, but I'm going to laugh if they try to restrict a normal guy's reaction. You are judged on how you dress, all posts on gaf attempting to shame aren't going to change this. Try taking that attitude to a job interview, wanting to feel feminine is fine and dandy but don't be surprised when the boss makes a snap judgment.

 

[Devolution]

How much of an effect did shaming have on that and how much was it legislature? Serious question.

Sexual Harassment in the workplace is one such example. Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/fs-sex.html

 

[Blasty]

Victims are targets.

This contradicts your entire comment.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

I do think many are downplaying that you can certainly dress in ways that will lower the creepiness towards you significantly.

And that's where the "victim blaming" discussion is coming in.

Can we not even rationally discuss "knowing what a likely consequence will be and making that decision anyways" without being accused of victim blaming?

I'm not here to blame a woman who:

- Considers being creeped on a huge deal, something very upsetting to them
- Walks around in yoga pants

I'm here to just discuss the fact that.. even wearing a jacket that covers your butt will reduce the creeping on you significantly. So if it's something that upsets you... you can help avoid what upsets you from happening. You then weight your desire to wear yoga pants with the reality of the upsetting things likely to occur.

That is not a way to excuse a creep any more than telling people to avoid cash machines late at night is a way to blame someone who was robbed.

And then again.. there's the fact that some women wear yoga pants so that people will think their ass looks hot.

Too dramatic of a discussion for the topic.

 

[T.M. MacReady]

is it just me is has the OT turned into a giant clusterfuck of arguments and people shaming other posters for disagreeing?

This thread needs to go.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Well, would you say there are choices you could make that would help you not get murdered? I'm not trying to be a shit, I just really feel that there's things you can actively make a choice about that would lower the chances of something like that happening, especially if you were in a gang.

It's obviously REALLY different with regards to telling people how to dress and stopping random creeps - so we can totally abandon this conversation if it's too far off the topic, but I see some parallels in how I feel about being murdered (which has never happened to me, honest) - and making choices to minimize the risk. Where does making choices to minimize the risk of murder fit into all this?

Taking precaution is a choice.

If a gang member's chance of being murdered is 99% and an innocent bystanders chance of being murdered is 1%--at the end of the day, they were both killed against their will.

Yes, obviously, life choices could potentially decrease or increase chances of X happening to you. That doesn't mean you're any less of a victim when it does happen. If someone leaves their front door unlocked and their home is robbed, vs. someone having their locked door broken into...they were still illegally robbed.

This contradicts your entire comment.

Which?

 

[Byakuya769]

Parents need to stop letting their kids play outside. Pedophiles are horrible, disgusting people, but you still have to realize that you could potentially be tempting them.

Discuss.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I wish there was one of those summaries happening in here, because I'd love to see the bone-headed logic GAF is using to both defend and attack this. BUT I AINT GOT TIME TO READ THIS, TOO MANY BOOTIES TO BUST.

 

[H.Protagonist]

For some reason people think this is too hard.

It takes actual effort to stand up and say something rather than just post "would"(etc.).

Yes but sadly that will never happen.

Why not? If you saw a guy taking sneaky butt shots of a woman in public, you wouldn't do anything? If someone posted a picture of a great ass in yoga pants and said that they took it ninja style at the gym you couldn't restrain yourself from posting "hot"? You don't have to play hero to make a difference. Just not applauding or validating such behavior would go a long way.

Cutting off avenues to display the pictures with impunity is probably the best way to go. I'd wager the guys who get a thrill out of taking a pic of a girl's ass are well past the point of shame.

I don't count out $300 I took out of the atm in the middle of a gas station, because it matters enough to me to not go through the ordeal because shouting from the rooftops "It never should've happened!" isn't good enough for me. On the same level, Phos thinks if it really cuts to the bone, then you should probably cover up that sweet ass with something "less" provocative. Or understand this shit is going to happen from time to time and there are precious few options out there to deal with it.

Legal recourse might be difficult and would be hard to enforce, which is why our best best is to speak out against this behavior instead and shame those who think it's acceptable to do this instead of just posting Jack Nicholson gifs whenever someone posts a picture like that.

What do you do about the fact that there are women who most certainly wear such clothing in order to be looked at, don't care and might even enjoy being stared at?

There are tons of levels of exhibitionism. I've spoken quite candidly with females about why they choose to wear certain clothing and it most certainly is for the purpose of being noticed.. nor are they concerned with someone being "creepy" unless it actually is to the point someone appears to be threatening.

I get it.. we could be shaming more men for staring at women.. I personally find the way some guys act in public disgusting myself. The rather obvious turn and stare after a girl walks by.

But IMO? They look like fools already.. and other than someone getting to see something you.. wore outside in public knowing full well you would be seen.. what harm has been done?

That's where it does become something that is hard for me to consider some huge deal. My girlfriend wears tight clothing.. high heals, etc.. she enjoys it.. she enjoys that it might get her attention.

She's not harmed by creeps being creeps.. and these people aren't getting praised by society or a bunch of positive attention for what they do. They are just out there being creepy..

Meh.

If it really bothers any woman that much, then I feel for them.. I'm not here to shame someone for being upset by something.. but I'm not entirely sure it's a 100% healthy thing to be upset about.

I'm referring directly to taking creepy photos of women in public without their consent, whatever they're wearing. I don't think we'll get any consensus on other 'attention' issues in regards to clothing in this thread, but I think we can all agree that we should not A) take creepy-secret photos of women in public, B) validate such behavior by posting idiotic stuff like "I'd hit that," "hot," and/or other "would"-type responses, and C) not excuse guys who do that just because "boys will be boys."

 

[phosphor112]

Parents need to stop letting their kids play outside. Pedophiles are horrible, disgusting people, but you still have to realize that you could potentially be tempting them.

Discuss.

Creeps will be creeps.

Keep an eye on your kids.

Let them play outside.

Precaution taken?
Yes?
Discussed.

 

[nilbog21]

I love it when girls talk about wearing Yoga pants because they are comfortable lol.

You have the freedom to wear Yoga pants in public but others also have the freedom to stare at your ass and take pics etc

All this to say: American women have no class at all

 

[Blasty]

If a gang member's chance of being murdered is 99% and an innocent bystanders chance of being murdered is 1%--at the end of the day, they were both killed against their will.

Yes, obviously, life choices could potentially decrease or increase chances of X happening to you. That doesn't mean you're any less of a victim when it does happen. If someone leaves their front door unlocked and their home is robbed, vs. someone having their locked door broken into...they were still illegally robbed.



Which?

You said that victims are targets. If your killed because your in a gang, are you not a target?

If you get mugged in a dangerous neighborhood, were you not a target?

Victim = Target is already incorrect. If your killed in the crossfire of a gun fight, you're a victim of murder. You weren't being targeted though.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

If a gang member's chance of being murdered is 99% and an innocent bystanders chance of being murdered is 1%--at the end of the day, they were both killed against their will.

Yes, obviously, life choices could potentially decrease or increase chances of X happening to you. That doesn't mean you're any less of a victim when it does happen. If someone leaves their front door unlocked and their home is robbed, vs. someone having their locked door broken into...they were still illegally robbed.

I see where you're coming from now, thanks for clarifying. I agree with you.

 

[MushroomSamba]

I do think many are downplaying that you can certainly dress in ways that will lower the creepiness towards you significantly.

And that's where the "victim blaming" discussion is coming in.

Can we not even rationally discuss "knowing what a likely consequence will be and making that decision anyways" without being accused of victim blaming?

I'm not here to blame a woman who:

- Considers being creeped on a huge deal, something very upsetting to them
- Walks around in yoga pants

I'm here to just discuss the fact that.. even wearing a jacket that covers your butt will reduce the creeping on you significantly. So if it's something that upsets you... you can help avoid what upsets you from happening. You then weight your desire to wear yoga pants with the reality of the upsetting things likely to occur.

That is not a way to excuse a creep any more than telling people to avoid cash machines late at night is a way to blame someone who was robbed.

And then again.. there's the fact that some women wear yoga pants so that people will think their ass looks hot.

Too dramatic of a discussion for the topic.

This is too practical and grounded to consider. Extreme opinions and extreme examples are more fun to argue with.

 

[Trey]

I wish there was one of those summaries happening in here, because I'd love to see the bone-headed logic GAF is using to both defend and attack this. BUT I AINT GOT TIME TO READ THIS, TOO MANY BOOTIES TO BUST.

Women shouldn't wear clothes that sexualize themselves because it attracts unsavory attention.

Men who take the pictures should stop being creeps because women should be comfortable wearing whatever they please.

No concessions have been made on either side.

 

[FStop7]

Life as the Sherlock Holmes of women's bodies and minds must be enthralling.

Reminds me of