Maybe it's because it's just easier to rip on jrpg's. How I see it jrpg's tend be awesome at times or completely wtf at other times. WRPG on the other hand tend to bring a consistent experience. I'll still say I prefer JRPG's over WRPG's, but that also has to do with I'm new to the WRPG genre(I also have hard time getting into the oldskool wrpg's unlike the oldskool jrpg's).Scribble said:
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Let's talk about JRPGs that have good writing quality
- Thread starter Chairman Yang
- Start date
I'm apathetic about most WRPG stories nowadays, just as I am about most JRPGs'. Apathy is death. However, the very best ones manage to strive for the type of direction where I'd like to see interactive/player-directed narrative go, but most simply don't.
Actually, as average as Lost Odyssey is, I really enjoyed its dreams of 1000 years. Pretty well-written and localized ('for a video game lol'), and the overall audiovisual package was pretty neat. Certainly a much stronger effort than the laughable main plot (or that of most RPGs irrespective of ocean affinity).
Actually, as average as Lost Odyssey is, I really enjoyed its dreams of 1000 years. Pretty well-written and localized ('for a video game lol'), and the overall audiovisual package was pretty neat. Certainly a much stronger effort than the laughable main plot (or that of most RPGs irrespective of ocean affinity).
RedRedSuit
Member
Himuro said:
Maybe. To me it played a lot like X-COM with non-randomly-generated missions.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Honestly very debatable. Books are definitely more than just spoken dialogue; the only difference here is that you actually see whats happening, rather than imagine it. A better comparison is to movies, or TV shows, or plays. A script is so much more than just the spoken words; a writer has to also write out his blocking, say what's happening, who's gesturing in such a way, who's behaving like so. I'd definably call creating that "writing", it goes part and parcel with the process.cosmicblizzard said:
Crash Station
Member
RurouniZel said:
Well this kills any motivation I had to debate things. I have better things to do anyway. Thanks Zel.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
cosmicblizzard said:
Any time.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
HK-47 said:
You're mother has lamer chiches!
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Llyranor said:
:lol :lol
RedRedSuit
Member
icarus-daedelus said:More games need to play like X-Com, then.
No argument from me.
<------------- See avatar.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I would say Persona 4 on a whole, but a lot of the exposition is really on the nose. And the English version of the "true ending" quiz path is poorly written in so much as it's not obvious which are the correct responses.
And even then, Persona 4 gets the nod simply because it skewers the tropes that other Japanese games embrace.
And even then, Persona 4 gets the nod simply because it skewers the tropes that other Japanese games embrace.
I was asking Mordin from ME2 about his effects of the genophage on Krogans, and the apparent chaos that it caused for an entire species. And he made it sound like the decision was right, with deductive, sound reasoning. Giving moral consequential argument, to bring overall positivity to lives.
Simply reminds me why i've abandon JRPGs altogether (FF13 story looks an OTT top as ever). The writing is nowhere near the same level.
Agreed.
Simply reminds me why i've abandon JRPGs altogether (FF13 story looks an OTT top as ever). The writing is nowhere near the same level.
Amir0x said:
Agreed.
Krauser Kat
Member
avatar299 said:
ITs good up until after the synopsis.
Alright we are going to have an apocalyptic world, where people are draining energy from the earth to power all their steam punk machines. Awesome.
Now we have some group for tree hugging bandits with giant slab swords and motor bikes.
Also we have little balls that let people shoot fire and fuck things unprotected. Eh....
Finfal Fantasy 7 does even get past summarizing midgar. before it sounds lame.
If you can summarize the story of any Jrpg without it sounding like shit, i will concede it is well written to a certain extent.
Yasae said:
I didn't make the rules. These developers decided to spend so much damn time making huge thousand page script stories that suck, and then forcing the gamer to fucking watch it all with no skip scene buttons!
Yasae said:
Funny I feel the exact opposite about the presentation
Prine said:
A pretty good example of just how many light years ahead of the game WRPGs are compared to JRPGs in terms of characterization.
LordPhoque
Banned
This WRPG vs JRPG talk is really lame.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Krauser Kat said:
I don't think FF7 is particularly well written but that's a pretty half-assed argument.
You can literally summarize any story in a way that makes it sound stupid: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BetterThanItSounds
It also applies the other way: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/WorseThanItSounds
Krauser Kat
Member
Fimbulvetr said:
It can totally go either way, sure i will agree with that.
LordPhoque
Banned
icarus-daedelus said:
My contribution ? I just said that I liked the writing in ME2. Which is out of the subject clearly because we only talk about JRPG here, but I named some too.
I just don't see why people cannot enjoy both WRPG and JRPG.
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
Doesn't change the fact that the thread is (at least originally) about the writing quality of JRPGs and before we got to the tenth post people are talking about games whose stories they liked. That's all well and good but the story really has nothing to do with the writing quality. As you said writing quality and plot aren't mutually inclusive. It is entirely possible to have a horrid story but written in such a wonderful manner that you can overlook the other. But the opposite is just as true. Most of the posts in this thread mention stories people liked but the writing is just shit. FFVII? I'd argue both plot and writing suck but many people love the plot. Doesn't change the fact that the writing is still shit. I enjoyed the gameplay of Valkyria Cronicles very much but the dialogue was just painful.The_Technomancer said:
Krauser Kat
Member
Amir0x said:
I dont know about light years. I dont think i have ever care for an Jrpg character more then them being a visually representation to the awesome stats a built up for them, which unfortunately was never as cool as i wanted it to be.
Are there any jrpgs where the main characters design is within the players control, beyond what armor you are wearing (which doesnt even show any change any way?)
Fimbulvetr
Member
Krauser Kat said:
In SMT Nocturne everything about the player character BUT his physical appearance is customizable.
Krauser Kat
Member
Jive Turkey said:
Next time you talk to them can ask them what the plot was. if it comes down too Sephiroth was awesommmemshahdlasdjh *faints* it doesnt count.
Japanese games in general will always be at a disadvantage in terms of writing because of localization/translation. Japanese style of writing is different than the west, part of the script is almost guaranteed to be some how altered during the translation process. That's why Metal Gear games are so wordy. Atlus did a really good job with the Persona series. Final Fantasy XII, if I remember correctly, also had strong writing. The difference between X and XII is huge and those games were only 5(?) years apart.
Than you get into Japanese design in general. They've been re-using character archetypes for 20 years now, for some reason they continue to rehash them and avoid change/evolution, but that's a whole other topic.
Than you get into Japanese design in general. They've been re-using character archetypes for 20 years now, for some reason they continue to rehash them and avoid change/evolution, but that's a whole other topic.
Krauser Kat
Member
Fimbulvetr said:
Can you make him not lame and emo
Just being facetious, sorry.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I lol @ people saying jRPGs are lightyears behind in characterization when you have games like Persona 3 and 4 which are built around evolving, realistic characters that are lightyears ahead of the tropes wRPGs frequently work with.
Krauser Kat
Member
ZephyrFate said:
2 games out of.... They may start making a dent but the overall picture is still the same.
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
I do my best to avoid interaction with those "people".Krauser Kat said:
tetrisgrammaton
Member
DQV has a damn good story.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Do you want other games? Shadow Hearts 1 and 2, even 3 at times. Digital Devil Saga. SMT: Nocturne. Drakengard series (despite how twisted the characters are). Chrono Trigger. The characters that were given screentime in Chrono Cross.Krauser Kat said:
There are many others.
Good characterization isn't exactly alien to the jRPG genre, but you have to actually look instead of glossing it over in one stupid stereotype.
7th: Are we talking about comics and cartoons here? No? Okay.
Krauser Kat
Member
stereotypes happen for a reason whether they are right or wrong. I personally dont give a shit, if your combat character system is robust and fun, i will enjoy the game. I want more D&D games but 4th gen made D&D more like videogames.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I would totally slam Mother 3 right here if I didn't love it to bits, but I'd really love for you to prove to me how the recent Persona games don't have evolving or realistic characters. Give me one of your long, biased rants.Amir0x said:hahahaahhahahahahaha "evolving realistic characters" oh sweet jesus
alt:
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Basileus777 said:
To put it simply, it's the Skies of Arcadia of WRPG's.
RurouniZel said:
This. Seriously this whole JRPG vs WRPG wars is just bullshit.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Except Skies of Arcadia is awesome purely for its world.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Sorry that I haven't replied, yet. I didn't get a chance to check this thread until now, and now it's huge and there's no way I can reply to everything.
Anyways, I think almost everyone can agree that JRPG writing needs to improve, considering the prevalence of dialogue and story in the genre. Given that writing quality should be a high priority for JRPG developers, what's the best way to achieve that? Would hiring more professional writers/translators (like Mistwalker did for the Thousand Year Dreams in Lost Odyssey) be enough? Is there something about the JRPG design process that's holding back writing and should be changed?
Anyways, I think almost everyone can agree that JRPG writing needs to improve, considering the prevalence of dialogue and story in the genre. Given that writing quality should be a high priority for JRPG developers, what's the best way to achieve that? Would hiring more professional writers/translators (like Mistwalker did for the Thousand Year Dreams in Lost Odyssey) be enough? Is there something about the JRPG design process that's holding back writing and should be changed?
I could be wrong, but I think this is the first thread I've made on the topic; usually I rant about RPG combat systems.Red Scarlet said:
Fimbulvetr
Member
Chairman Yang said:
Nope, just a bunch on non-Matsunos writing bad drama for teens.
ZephyrFate
Banned
You're excluding all of the various writers for the SMT series like Kaneko and Okada.Fimbulvetr said:
I'm a heretic for saying this... but they're better than Matsuno.
:X :X :X :X
There are definitely better ones. It's just the majority of the interesting ones don't get translated. Since the female demographic is surprisingly big and the majority of guys tend to like the manga aimed at teens. Theres a lot psychological seinen manga out there that definitely handles the themes in Persona3 better.MechaX said:
Case holds true with anime as well.
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