Man, that Queen Facehugger is pretty sweet.
I have that flying alien queen in an attic somewhere
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Let's talk about the way M-rated games are marketed at children
- Thread starter a Master Ninja
- Start date
I have that flying alien queen in an attic somewhere
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I think that's why Halo and Titanfall have half assed blood and gibs. The games could easily be T without changing the tone.
a Master Ninja
Member
So the game industry is the reverse movie industry?
Hollywood censors and removes adult content in a desperate attempt to get a PG-13 rating with the hopes that a lower rating = more sales.
The video game industry injects adult content into games to make the "Mature" in the hopes that a higher rating = more sales.
oflaherty01
Member
Kinda, I wish they would have done more with the deaths in Destiny. From my experience in the beta, everything seems to kinda die in the same way unless someone gets a headshot as the final blow. Adding gore and blood adds a variety into killing stuff, as things dynamically (in some sense) get torn apart. The visual indication that something is getting killed is nice, but the number indicators in Destiny kinda fill that spot.
Hell, even Mortal Kombat got a cheesy kid-friendly cartoon.
Nothing is safe from the almighty transmedia merchandising machine. Nothing.
Nothing is safe from the almighty transmedia merchandising machine. Nothing.
Yes, I think that's true, but a lot of this has to do with the games we're talking about. This effect is only noticeable on PS/Xbox consoles, where a hugely disproportionate number of the big hits are violent. I can imagine on Nintendo consoles or 3DS or iOS that there would be an aversion to violence, but on PS/Xbox violence is absolutely selected for.
Didn't know about this at all. It's not cool to sell Call of Duty toys to kids. Not cool at all.
However I have no problem with Halo. One game series is about a superhero blasting aliens in space, the other is grounded in real world warfare, and kids don't have the understanding to deal with all the various contexts and issues that surround that, let alone the actual sight of your character shooting a realistic looking man in the head.
However I have no problem with Halo. One game series is about a superhero blasting aliens in space, the other is grounded in real world warfare, and kids don't have the understanding to deal with all the various contexts and issues that surround that, let alone the actual sight of your character shooting a realistic looking man in the head.
Iva Demilcol
Member
To be honest, if I were a kid I'd probably have some of those toys.
Not violence in general though. Nintendo has plenty of cartoony violence that would be relatable in a tom & jerry style of context. Realistic violence though, it is pretty light on.
I don't think link is beating Gannon with a dance off towards the end of the game, nor are the characters in smash brothers just hugging it out. It is just flavored and served differently.
I agree, I didn't mean to imply Nintendo has no violence at all. Your example -- Zelda -- often gets a T rating for the exact reasons you noted. It's just distinctly less than on PS/Xbox consoles.
And I also agree that violence can be defined in different ways. I wouldn't say Mario is absolutely without violence, for instance. Sports games definitely aren't, either (well, Madden in particular).
plasmawave
Banned
Don't really care.
They were plenty of M rated movie toys marketed towards kids when I was young.
They were plenty of M rated movie toys marketed towards kids when I was young.
I owned this toy as a kid.
It makes the X-Men toys look like teddy bears.
I remember playing with this guy. What the heck was that pole sticking out of his fist supposed to be?!
MrCunningham
Member
During the 1993 senate hearings over violent video games, one of Joe Lieberman's biggest concerns with using a rating system was that it could easily be perversed into a marketing tool to appeal to under age children instead of being used as a regulatory device to prohibit mature games from getting into their hands.
He generally didn't think that using a rating system was good enough and believed that mature themed games should either be restricted to being behind the counter or banned outright from toy stores all together.
Funny thing is... he was completely right about the first part, and I think made a pretty strong case on the second one.
But what are you going to do? This is an issue that goes back through the ages long before the event of video games.
I saw Robocop when I was like 7 or 8 and I loved the character so much that I had the toy. And then there was Ninja Turtles... I mean, granted Ninja Turtles were not really "R" rated (though the original black and white comics were pretty violent), but every kid I knew wanted to own a pair of nunchucks or some sais or bowstaffs.
He generally didn't think that using a rating system was good enough and believed that mature themed games should either be restricted to being behind the counter or banned outright from toy stores all together.
Funny thing is... he was completely right about the first part, and I think made a pretty strong case on the second one.
But what are you going to do? This is an issue that goes back through the ages long before the event of video games.
I saw Robocop when I was like 7 or 8 and I loved the character so much that I had the toy. And then there was Ninja Turtles... I mean, granted Ninja Turtles were not really "R" rated (though the original black and white comics were pretty violent), but every kid I knew wanted to own a pair of nunchucks or some sais or bowstaffs.
BruiserBear
Banned
I'm personally not concerned at all with kids playing with Call of Duty or Gears of War toys. It's no different than when I was a kid and GI Joe was a big deal.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
It was a metal rod. I'd ram other figures with it then I'd act like I was giving them the finger. I never figured it out. MK was around that time, so my imagination went wild.
Actually, Schwarzenegger had a stipulation that any toy using his likeness could not be packaged with a gun. Obviously it doesn't apply today though. Same thing happened with those X-Files figures released by Mcfarlane Toys. I always assumed that the metal rod was supposed to be like a knife or something? Or maybe its like the opening to Terminator 1 where he's fighting those punks lead by Bill Paxton and he skewers one dude with his bare hands?
I've always wondered about that stuff too. With 2 young sons there is no concern with them being interested in the stuff in the OP it's all "Fake Legos". My boys wouldn't have any of it.
The really funny thing is you can't find many toys that actually look like guns anymore. Unless you are in a specialty shop you won't find a plain silver cap gun like I had when I was a kid. There isn't anything more sinister than a super soaker at most department stores.
Parents of boys might find this of interest. Raising Cain
Essentially boys will be boys, and they should be. Like the Presidents of the United States Song says "Poke and destroy, I'm a boy, I wanna poke and destroy!"
The really funny thing is you can't find many toys that actually look like guns anymore. Unless you are in a specialty shop you won't find a plain silver cap gun like I had when I was a kid. There isn't anything more sinister than a super soaker at most department stores.
Parents of boys might find this of interest. Raising Cain
Essentially boys will be boys, and they should be. Like the Presidents of the United States Song says "Poke and destroy, I'm a boy, I wanna poke and destroy!"
Roran Stehl
Member
As a father (4 kids including two boys 9 and 7) I find that these toys increase the appetite of the kids to play the actual games. As an old gamer having played most of my life I am obviously very understanding but quite strict regarding the ratings. These toys don't help.
Pancakes R Us
Member
Pretty much, we all wanted to grow up so fast at that age. And now I could do with being in my early 20s again.
Alex_Mexico
Member
That's terrible. I has no idea they had toys and backpacks for kids for CoD and GeoW!
On another related note I never got why Halo was M. Uncharted is more violent, bloody and use more cuss words than Halo ever did and yet that one got a T. Not to mention in Halo you fight random aliens with no blood and in Uncharted human beings. Halo should've been T at the very least. I'd argue Halo 1 could get an E+10 even!
On another related note I never got why Halo was M. Uncharted is more violent, bloody and use more cuss words than Halo ever did and yet that one got a T. Not to mention in Halo you fight random aliens with no blood and in Uncharted human beings. Halo should've been T at the very least. I'd argue Halo 1 could get an E+10 even!
Alex_Mexico
Member
Pretty much. I've always thought that the only reason Halo was rated M was because MS asked for it. There is no reason why it couldn't have been T.
Having said that I was pleasantly surprised at how Destiny was a T. Kudos to Bungie. Not every FPS needs to be M!
Alex_Mexico
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the only Zelda that has ever gotten a T rating was Twilight Princess and I think it got that only because there was no E+10 yet. Then along came Skyward Sword and it got a E+10 rating instead of course.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
You obviously have never played Gears of War.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
You don't chainsaw people in half in Gears?
You haven't played Gears. Or you haven't played the multiplayer mode.
It was to simulate a punch.
You pull back the switch, and then press down and it will "punch".
I remember playing with the figure on top of a water tank as a kid...punching XMEN into the water.
Man, I was a dumb kid to climb up a 10ft water tank AND reaching my hands into that crappy looking water.
Well in New Zealand, Halo 4 was rated R13 (only people 13 and older could buy it)
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The funny thing about Terminator and Robocop toys is how movie standards have shifted. A whole lot of films from the 80s would be far more restricted today.
Personally, I do think it's a little hypocritical for the game industry to license out its "mature" games as kid's toys. If we're going to treat games as "sophisticated" entertainment on par with movies, a modern M rated game would in many cases be the equivalent to a hard R rated film. You don't typically see lunch boxes for Seven, or children's action figures for Sin City.
Personally, I do think it's a little hypocritical for the game industry to license out its "mature" games as kid's toys. If we're going to treat games as "sophisticated" entertainment on par with movies, a modern M rated game would in many cases be the equivalent to a hard R rated film. You don't typically see lunch boxes for Seven, or children's action figures for Sin City.
BenjiGAF
Member
When I worked at Gamestop most of the people buying Ass Creed were over the age of 30...
And most of the actual recipients of the games were with them in the store, whining for more games. The sheer # of preteen kids getting AC and CoD for Christmas was shocking to me. 9 year old kids describing how cool it is to stab guys was twisted.
The COD toys are fucked, but then
so is that
EDIT: since I can't seem to make the image work, Google "Springtime Trigger Happy" and marvel at the things we market to kids
And most of the actual recipients of the games were with them in the store, whining for more games. The sheer # of preteen kids getting AC and CoD for Christmas was shocking to me. 9 year old kids describing how cool it is to stab guys was twisted.
The COD toys are fucked, but then
EDIT: since I can't seem to make the image work, Google "Springtime Trigger Happy" and marvel at the things we market to kids
Flacracker
Banned
Why are we pretending that anyone actually gives a shit about ESRB ratings? I'm sure almost all of you have played M rated games before 17 years old.
Astral Dog
Member
Yeah,i would say kids are a big part of the target audience with Halo and Call of Duty, last year i saw a little boy wearing a Call of Duty shirt, why would they make a shirt for kids?
I think society is already ok with action figures for kids, so the argument that mature brands such as COD and GOW are somehow not okay is going to be hard for the typical person to swallow.
On a slightly different point, I find it interesting that commodifying violence is relatively easy to do. We can't do the same with language for example. Could you imagine - as marketeer - trying to get a toy that said 'f*ck you'? into a child's toy store?
On a slightly different point, I find it interesting that commodifying violence is relatively easy to do. We can't do the same with language for example. Could you imagine - as marketeer - trying to get a toy that said 'f*ck you'? into a child's toy store?
Correct on the first statement if you're only counting main games (one-third correct if you're also counting spin-offs) and completely wrong on the second:
A. If you're also counting spin-offs, add Link's Crossbow Training and Hyrule Warriors to make three T-rated Zelda games
B. E10+ was created in direct response to the fisticuffs of Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, a Gamecube game. Remember that TP was a Wii launch title, so it couldn't have been rated T because of its release window...
I have to sell Mature games all the time to 6 year olds with their parents all the time. My whole thing I say for GTA is, "this is a mature game it has: blood, gore, sex, drugs, violence and prostitution" for Saints Row I add in Dildo Bats which is apparently where some people draw the line for there 6 year old. CoD is by far the most popular one. I probably have more kids buy it then adults.
I think in some of these style of discussions that the overal intent of the game and the characters within the game with the context of the violence gets overlooked. The intent I think is probably more important to take note of rather than observing the existence of violence. For example, in the realm of competition using the instance of any martial art, the intent isn't to injure, maim, or kill and therefore the associated malice and deviant behavior attached to the violent act simply doesn't exist. It is simply an exhibition of technique defeating the technique, reaction time, and perception of the competitors.The same could be said for most professional sports, which the sports themselves attempt to police with various rules and regulations where if players fail to abide by them will get fined and removed from playing.
In the instance of many nintendo games, the violent parts are framed either comically or in a very mechanically oriented fashion which doesn't infer overal hostile intent. Where as by contrast "justified" violence in a title like TLOU ranging from option to need is framed differently from say Mortal Kombat. Even in environments where the only action to take is to shoot another player, games like Tribes, Halo, and even Unreal Tournament give off a very different vibe than titles like Arma, Battlefield, or CoD.
It isn't even necisarialy about how realistic the characters are portrayed or the world they are set within, but more along the lines of the overal mood being put forward with the title. I mean, Starcraft doesn't get viewed as some mass murder/genocide simulator, nor does Civ even though the implications are there. Where as playing Planetside for any signifigant length of time induced fatigue and felt like work, rather than some detached futuristic shooter in spite of the massive body counts involved. A similar sentiment could be said in regard to many other MMO style settings.
I just think that the rating system seems to be looking for certain qualifiers rather than what those qualifiers mean within the context of the game as a whole and things get misrepresented either way and translates over into discussions such as these.
Eh? Plenty of us here played them before the ratings existed. The concern being related has everything to do with how things will be/will be viewed now and going forward. There wouldn't be a conversation if there were no concerns.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
Damn, that thing looks really good even now. Even has the translucent head with the skull face underneath. The action figure industry really took a dive in quality the 80s didn't it? I'm guessing Star Wars made a lot of figure makers just give up trying to produce quality figures.
Duane Cunningham
Member
I think the equivalence with GI Joe is a little false though. GI Joe was SO cartoony compared to CoD and GoW. Lasers and zany villains and the occasional dinosaur and whatever.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
It bothers me, although not necessarily for the violence intrinsically. The last time I played/watched someone play through a Call of Duty campaign (MW2 I think) it was some amazingly jingoistic nonsense and I honestly feel uncomfortable that is being "marketed" towards children.
This is good discussion to have. Since you are already aware of adult themed media being advertised to children before I'll just say in theory it isn't a problem.
Toys are just toys. In practice though there is more to it than that.
Children are the most susceptible to advertising since they are still developing. As they consume more media that they like they'll be curious about how a franchise is represented in other ways. A lot of parents have pretty strong control over their children to ensure they aren't watching violent and frightening media meant for adults but many others don't care or don't understand how it can have a negative impact.
Since parents are usually the arbiters for what a child may consume then there isn't anything technically wrong with selling items like these. Though personally I would make sure if I design media for kids it is for kids and the ones for adults are targeted to adults.
Skullface
Member
They also had GI Joe style ultra articulate action figures.
I remember back about a month before GTAV was due out I was in the video-game section of Smyths here (toy store) and a guy walked in with his kid and asked if he could buy the new GTA game, to which the employee replied that it wasn't out for another few weeks. He turned around to the kid with him that couldn't have been any older than about 10 I'd say (think he was more likely to be 8 or 9) and told him he couldn't get it yet. Seriously couldn't believe it.
ArkkAngel007
Member
As someone who worked for Toys R Us between jobs, many of them really don't. I can't say I was bothered by the Halo Mega Blocks, but Gears of War did just for what is in the game violence-wise.
And OP, if you went into the general film and toy aisle (depending on layout, but usually the first boys aisle), there are plenty of R and M rated licensed merchandise. Ted, Left 4 Dead, Mortal Kombat, McFarlane toys...not as prevalent as the days of Kenner as you said, but not as phased out as some may believe.
Aside from Ted and Mortal Kombat though, not much seemed directed at kids and definitely there for the older crowd who likes those sort of toys that just sit on shelves as part of a diorama or as part of a collection.
It seems odd how they made the work around to getting their product to kids since most places are pretty strict when it comes to selling to kids (we had to put in birthdate, no yes or no easy button), but the mainstream media haven't made a stink about it and keep talking about how retailers give out M titles to kids like candy despite the case being the opposite.
But it is up to the parents overall, even if the responsibility and accountability never seems to fall on them. And obviously there are a large number of parents who couldn't give a shit or actively allow, for good or bad reasons, their kids to consumer that content or people like Activision or Microsoft wouldn't market actively towards that demographic.
We're talking about merchandising and other roundabout ways these companies target young/'underage' demographics in a world where you can get into some legal shit if you as a retailer or even an employee is caught selling an M-rated game to a kid. not about how we all turned out fine and dandy over watching a violent film or playing a violent game.