Razgreez said:Oi, it's my opinion. Am i not allowed to post it? Success is measured over the lifetime of a product, not just its initial years
so you are implying that it has still many years to live ??
Razgreez said:Oi, it's my opinion. Am i not allowed to post it? Success is measured over the lifetime of a product, not just its initial years
I think when a fad lasts four years, it's no longer a fad.Razgreez said:Oi, it's my opinion. Am i not allowed to post it? Success is measured over the lifetime of a product, not just its initial years
Krev said:I think when a fad lasts four years, it's no longer a fad.
Especially considering the original Xbox only lasted that long.
wazoo said:so you are implying that it has still many years to live ??
Razgreez said:Fads can last for yrs or months. There's no limit on how long it carries on for only that it reaches an abrupt end.
Sadist said:Looking at the 2011 list for multi-platform titles...
- The Grinder (High Voltage/Sega)
- Ghost Recon Future Soldier (Ubisoft)
- De Blob Underground (THQ)
- Driver: San Francisco (Ubisoft)
- WWE All-Stars (THQ)
And some games based on movie franchises like Thor, Captain America, Green Lantern and I believe Disney movies, it's pretty bleak in 2011.
Square Enix and I'm sure Level 5 are giving everything to 3DS.yurinka said:As great 3rd party support for 3DS, instead of EA or Konami I would mention Capcom who is porting their current more appeling game for the hardcore (SSFIV) and developing for the system a brand new game of their main IP (Resident Evil), that looks like it's going to be the game with best visuals in the system.
I say that because the games from both IPs aren't typically ported to everything.
Actually, the foreign currency exchange rate is what is taking its toll on profitability.Razgreez said:Fads can last for yrs or months. There's no limit on how long it carries on for only that it reaches an abrupt end. Haven't been following nintendo's company figures too closely but it appears, from what i have read, that the lack of 3rd party support is beginning to take its toll on profitability - well that and piracy.
It will live as long as nintendo choose to support it/keep it afloat as opposed to say the PS2 which still lives on to this day with nary a first party offering on it in years.
Sadist said:And some games based on movie franchises like Thor, Captain America, Green Lantern and I believe Disney movies, it's pretty bleak in 2011.
Amir0x said:Uh, no. What exactly am I insulting him about with that? I am inferring directly that he likes abuse because he does. He's purchasing poor quality products and then reinforcing in developers that's what he wants by purchasing further poor quality products.
It is advisable, therefore, to tell him exactly what that is. That's someone who likes abuse. I'm saying it in the same exact way as if I was telling a women who stays with someone who keeps beating her that "you must like abuse if you stay with that man." That isn't insulting the women in that context either. In this context, it's more like advising him to stop accepting less.
Anyone who continually takes abuse will keep getting abused.
Segata Sanshiro said:...
actually, there are so many, it would be easier to list the systems that could possibly be successes if the Wii is a failure:
Playstation
Playstation 2
Nintendo DS
Game Boy
/endlist
Still, they Wii might be doing better, but not by much. Don't know about a few years. 2011? Sure.wazoo said:If you want to go that deep, you can add anything "non-mature" EA like Create, Fifa, Madden, COD and DJ/Band/GH from Activision, Deca Sports 3 (with M+ !!) and so on. Unlike the N64, where the ROMS costed an arm, or the GC, which was dead, the Wii can be in "late-ps2-level" for a few years.
Well I didn't play it and just noted that the reviews were pretty good.Amir0x said:And Resistance 2 was pretty badly slammed by the fanbase for being rushed and dropping features and changing gameplay flow and it's almost universally now considered as the wrong direction for a franchise which had a promising start.
Personally, I don't need it to be a mainline game. (If by "mainline" you mean "Resident Evil 5".) A subtitled spinoff would be quite sufficient for me.Amir0x said:I do believe we can all agree that if they did make a ground up RE4-style mainline Resident Evil game for Wii, it would find considerable success. I also believe however that there is no reason for them to do that, when they are (likely) finding greater success in doing this for the PS360PC.
Segata Sanshiro said:Actually, the foreign currency exchange rate is what is taking its toll on profitability.
The Wii has been a major disappointment for me personally, and I think it would be impossible to calculate just how much wasted sales potential was truly there, but at the end of the day, it would be nearly insane to say it wasn't a massive success. Nintendo made billions of dollars off of it, went from a ~20% marketshare to a 65-70% marketshare, used the platform to sell some of their highest-selling software (and by default, some of *the* highest-selling software) ever, it's the fastest-selling home console of all-time, and if it stopped selling tomorrow, it would be the third highest selling home console of all-time and the fifth-highest selling piece of video game hardware of all-time.
If the Wii is not a success, the following systems are also not successes:
Playstation 3
Xbox 360
PSP
Nintendo Entertainment System
Super Nintendo Entertainment System
Game Boy Advance
Xbox
SEGA Genesis
...
actually, there are so many, it would be easier to list the systems that could possibly be successes if the Wii is a failure:
Playstation
Playstation 2
Nintendo DS
Game Boy
/endlist
Wouldn't it be nifty if I had said something about the Wii being the fastest selling console of all-time in that post you quoted? Yeah, that would have been cool.farnham said:isnt the wii selling faster then the PS2 and also doesnt it have more 10 million + sellers then the PS2 already ?
My good god. Please never post on a message board with such ignorance again.Horsebite said:Disclaimer to my reply: I do not own a Wii. My sister and brother do and I have played many different titles many times but never felt inclined to purchase one myself. I own an NES, SNES, owned an N64, and a regular original giant ass Gameboy.
I think Nintendo's main problem is that the console they put out is COMPLETELY inferior to Microsoft and Sony's offerings. For $50 more than Wii costs, you get an HD capable console/media server. Why did Nintendo not make the Wii HD? Baffles the mind. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during that discussion. I believe Nintendo solely believed their console would sell on the fact that it had wireless motion control, which at the time, no other console had. However with the Fall launch of Kinect and Move, I think the Wii is going to be shoved out of the market.
Half the problem was the lack of supply during the Wii's launch. A lot of people got pissed and bought a 360. Or at least that's what I did. I now refuse to buy a Wii solely because I would say more than 50% of the titles available for it are complete crap that's marketed to a family audience, and may appeal to people 10 years of age and younger, or it's a COMPLETELY neutered version of the same title available on 360 or PS3. That's it. I would love to have a Wii for golf games ONLY; that's it, and the virtual console stuff but I can get an emulator on my PC for playing NES/SNES/N64 games and it works better and is free(*).
I think after the fall, if Nintendo doesn't come up with an up to date new console with HD output and other common features, they're going to be done with the home console market. However, they completely dominate the handheld market and have since the Gameboy. I plan on buying a 3DS on day one. I believe we'll see Nintendo begin to slowly become a solely portable game hardware company and that's it. I just can't see them competing with Microsoft and Sony in the next-gen console wars. Maybe the NEXT next gen console wars, but if the Wii is any indication, I'd doubt they stand a chance.
I think a lot of the problem is that Nintendo caters mostly to Eastern ideas of games and culture which doesn't mesh well with the UK and US. I, for one, cannot stand most Japanese style RPGs and other games, solely because the artwork is generally very similar, interfaces are cluttered and needlessly complex, etc. I just don't like the Eastern game design. I'd venture to say the majority of Western gamers do not like the Eastern style of game design either. Yes, there are huge exceptions and huge portions that LOVE Eastern developed games. Hell, all of my friends love these games, I just can't stand them.
But Nintendo doesn't know how to let 3rd parties breathe, and this has been an issue since the NES/SNES days with licensing and everything. This is becoming a rambling long text post, so I will stop.
In summary, I think the Wii is dead or at least on it's deathbed. Third party devs and publishers have abandoned it, this is for certain. However, Nintendo's handheld market is very promising.
Oh, no when I said 2010- 2011 I meant Wii's entire library, first and third party included. As I said, I don't believe Wii ever had good third party support, and it's not going to change now.wazoo said:by gluing 2010 and 2011 you are missing the point. 2010 has been very good (at least by my standards) to the Wii and this Fall will keep this year on track to be the one of th best year for the Wii. What is debated is the post christmas effect, where there is basically none to see. 3rd parties are usually announcing games much more in advance than Nintendo, and at this time we should have a overall clear vision of 2011 first half pre-E3, and at the current time, this is almost empty. It looks like 3rd parties are finishing what they are doing now (sometimes with lots of ambition, see Epic Mickey) and then they will move on.
wazoo said:So, pretty much everything is a fad.
well the wii is not at an abrupt end at allRazgreez said:Not all things come to an abrupt end purchase wise, ergo the PS2 example. The hula hoop is a perfect example of a fad. Millions buying it one year, thousands the next and then... nothing. The wii scenario is obviously not that dramatic but you catch my drift
farnham said:well the wii is not at an abrupt end at all
if anything it actually did better then it did in 2009 so far.
if it will do anything similar to December 2009 remains to be seen
as someone pointed out its already the no. 3 best selling console of all times. calling it a failure or fad is quite a stretchRazgreez said:True, i'm basing this on what i feel its lifetime sales might represent because of the effect of a lack of 3rd party support. I accept that i could be totally wrong. About the doing better than 2009 - i'm not sure. Almost definitely read that growth is down and losses have been made this year
farnham said:as someone pointed out its already the no. 3 best selling console of all times. calling it a failure or fad is quite a stretch
also yes losses have been made but that was due to dwindling DS sales and probably due to 3DS production costs
I am. Worldwide Wii shipments are up 36% this fiscal year compared to last so far.Razgreez said:About the doing better than 2009 - i'm not sure.
farnham said:as someone pointed out its already the no. 3 best selling console of all times. calling it a failure or fad is quite a stretch
also yes losses have been made but that was due to dwindling DS sales and probably due to 3DS production costs
Jokeropia said:I am. Worldwide Wii shipments are up 36% this fiscal year compared to last so far.
Ok we understood your point, for you Wii is a fad.Razgreez said:I don't want to sound like a beating the same drum over and over but above is exactly what happens with a fad. Fad does not mean unsuccessful
So the PS2 is a fad?Razgreez said:I don't want to sound like a beating the same drum over and over but above is exactly what happens with a fad. Fad does not mean unsuccessful
Leondexter said:In that case, bite me. You're factually wrong about what constitutes a fact, self-contradicting, rude, and too immature to admit when you're wrong. How's that for not taking abuse?
Jokeropia said:Well I didn't play it and just noted that the reviews were pretty good.
Jokeropia said:In any case, I do believe there were reports on how Red Steel 2 spent quite some time in development hell and had at least one complete reboot, so it's not like the product released was worked on effectively for 3.5 years.
Personally, I don't need it to be a mainline game. (If by "mainline" you mean "Resident Evil 5".) A subtitled spinoff would be quite sufficient for me.
BishopLamont said:People are still calling the Wii a fad? :lol
So the PS2 is a fad?
Chris1964 said:Ok we understood your point, for you Wii is a fad.
Amir0x said:By mainline, I just meant like... something of the caliber of Resident Evil: Code Veronica or something like that. Maybe one day they'll still do that. I mean, who can say?
sillymonkey321 said:I want to punch Lucas Arts in the shoulder for making a Kinect game instead of focusing on Move.
AniHawk said:Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
The Wii hasn't come to an abrupt stop, so why is it a fad?Razgreez said:hahaha, do read my previous posts
AniHawk said:Well Code Veronica originally was 3 while 3 was originally the subtitled spinoff thing.
Amir0x said:Code Veronica was a much better game than 3 imo so that doesn't shock me.
Personally, it doesn't seem like a bad idea for me for Capcom to meet this need Wii fans have. I mean if they did make a big Resident Evil game for Wii, it would undoubtedly sell. Like I said I'm just not sure they really feel they need to do that. Maybe their experience with the Gamecube put them off or something, or maybe they just feel they have a good strategy as it is.
BishopLamont said:The Wii hasn't come to an abrupt stop, so why is it a fad?
So let me get this straight. You yourself, as most of us, think the Wii will have trouble maintaining it's sales momentum thanks to anemic 3rd party support, and that they're where they are now thanks to their software support alone (blame nintendo and 3rd parties yadda yadda).Razgreez said:Precisely
Time will tell whether my opinion is right or not
in other words you dont like it and therefore its a fad....Razgreez said:See this thread is about 3rd party support. It stands stand to reason that lack of it has resulted in the downfall of consoles like the dreamcast. However in the case of the wii it has great first party titles and very clever marketing combined with minimal research and development costs. In other words its development was brilliant business wise. On top of that it had the hook of "motion control" which was always going to become part of general gaming eventually - in my opinion.
Problem is its controls, once again in my opinion, are not good enough. They require too much compromise on a developers part. Time that could be spent using libraries to develop games is instead used to first develop ways around its deficiencies. Also games that were designed specifically to be used with its controls couldn't easilly be ported over to other consoles to mitigate risk - although i'm now repeating what i've typed earlier.
Now the fad part comes in with my experience of using it. Honestly the hardware just isnt up to scruff. I enjoy good graphics, i appreciate good production values and i find tight controls to be a necessity - killzone 2 really tested my patience. For the most part the wii adds none of these so i wouldnt buy it and to me it's a fad. Popular yes but one step forward and two steps back. No real potential for taking the industry forward and eventually people will rather quickly lose interest
Your opinion might be different, i respect that
Razgreez said:See this thread is about 3rd party support. It stands stand to reason that lack of it has resulted in the downfall of consoles like the dreamcast. However in the case of the wii it has great first party titles and very clever marketing combined with minimal research and development costs. In other words its development was brilliant business wise. On top of that it had the hook of "motion control" which was always going to become part of general gaming eventually - in my opinion.
Problem is its controls, once again in my opinion, are not good enough. They require too much compromise on a developers part. Time that could be spent using libraries to develop games is instead used to first develop ways around its deficiencies. Also games that were designed specifically to be used with its controls couldn't easilly be ported over to other consoles to mitigate risk - although i'm now repeating what i've typed earlier.
Now the fad part comes in with my experience of using it. Honestly the hardware just isnt up to scruff. I enjoy good graphics, i appreciate good production values and i find tight controls to be a necessity - killzone 2 really tested my patience. For the most part the wii adds none of these so i wouldnt buy it and to me it's a fad. Popular yes but one step forward and two steps back. No real potential for taking the industry forward and eventually people will rather quickly lose interest
Your opinion might be different, i respect that
Razgreez said:Now the fad part comes in with my experience of using it. Honestly the hardware just isnt up to scruff. I enjoy good graphics, i appreciate good production values and i find tight controls to be a necessity - . For the most part the wii adds none of these so i wouldnt buy it and to me it's a fad. Popular yes but one step forward and two steps back. No real potential for taking the industry forward and eventually people will rather quickly lose interest
BMF said:So..... you don't understand the definition of fad?
fad [fæd]
n Informal
1. an intense but short-lived fashion; craze
2. a personal idiosyncrasy or whim
We're talking about definition #1 here. The Wii doesn't fit it because of the short-lived part.
Razgreez said:Well it's a definite craze. I've had many of my friends who don't play games talk about it and even been invited to parties to come play it. But yeah, short-lived is relative. And i don't dislike it. I think it's great for fps because of its pointer controls but not for much else. I admire nintendo's ingenuity in the way they created to it. I'm just impartial to it. I'm using "i" and "i'm" way too much here...
The term "short-lived" is relative to the time-span being examined.BMF said:We're talking about definition #1 here. The Wii doesn't fit it because of the short-lived part.
What are we comparing the Wii to here? The life of a sea turtle?Safe Bet said:The term "short-lived" is relative to the time-span being examined.
Edit:
*beaten*
*shrug*Segata Sanshiro said:What are we comparing the Wii to here? The life of a sea turtle?
Amir0x said:I don't debate about things I don't believe it. Nor do I hold an opinion if I do not passionately believe it to be true. Nobody has changed their mind about anything in this thread, not me, not Leondexter, not ElFly...no one. But yet here I am, being accused of being stubborn.