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Literacy Not A Right For Detroit School Kids According To State
- Thread starter Dalek
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It's impossible to function in modern society without being able to read and write. I don't know how you can argue that education as a right doesn't include literacy. That's the entire foundation for education, hence why it's the first thing that kids are taught.
gutter_trash
Banned
Republicans are so damn evil, people who vote for them are evil too
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
I have no problem with the lawsuit and think the conditions those students found themselves in is awful and needs to be fixed. That doesn't give them a legal leg to stand on, unfortunately (or it might, as I am not a lawyer). It should almost certainly be codified in law, but it's not and that's likely why they have to try it from the angle of deprivation of rights, which makes it seem to me like they have no real shot here.
WiiredShawn
Member
Fortunately, there are activist groups, like the one mentioned in the article, who fight these things. Support them with donations, if nothing else. We can also volunteer at local libraries and encourage the spread of literacy. It's the best any individual can probably do.
There's a compelling argument for literacy as a right, especially in the modern day. The ability to express yourself clearly and synthesize information is fundamental. It's so necessary that it may as well be a right. If you don't believe in its absolute necessity, then what's even the point of trying to educate children?
Intheflorsh
Banned
It would? Isn't literacy one of the goals of elementary school education?
What trade do you think is achievable while being illiterate in modern times? Especially since all trade organization apprenticeships (carpentry, tool and die, heating and cooling, etc) are tied to post secondary programs now.
Incredible.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
They aren't being actively denied that right, so in that sense it's being protected. Is it governments responsibility to fully furnish all rights, or is it the governments responsibility to remove all reasonable road blocks to those rights? The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights declares that elementary education requires mandatory participation and should be free, as far as I remember, which is a bit different.
Basic literacy is. Functional literacy? Probably not until middle to high school. Functional literacy is "to manage daily living and employment tasks that require reading skills beyond a basic level." Not something we expect of elementary education.
They are black is reason enough
Since people care about drug laws now that white kids are dying of heroin, maybe they'll care about this once white kids start becoming illiterate. America.
I wonder if the Trump presidency will be the final nail in the coffin for American democracy. Half the population celebrates ignorance, and the federal government will ensure they're kept that way.
The Functional literacy they are talking about in the OP (the ability to fill out forms/perscriptions) is somewhere around a 4th grade reading level. I'm not familiar with Michigan laws, but most places have mandatory schooling until at least 16 (which is Grade 10).
The state constitution of Michigan mandates free elementary and secondary education.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
If that's the case, it makes things a little different. It's pretty despicable that they are shirking their constitutionally mandated duties.
I mean, it's despicable even if it's not constitutionally mandated, but when it actually IS a right it's that much worse.
Superkamikaze
Member
Curious to see the challenges teachers face in these schools? What's going on in these classrooms?
Imperfected
Member
Thanks, Rick, for being the object lesson in why we can't respect "state's rights" when it comes to determining their own educational standards and priorities.
Truancy is probably a major issue. When a kid is missing 3-4 days a week, they aren't going to be learning anything in the days they do show up.
President-Elect believes some of the smartest and most prosperous people he knows can't read or write, so I doubt he cares.
Education is an easy target when cutting budgets
He himself seems to just barely be literate.
Superkamikaze
Member
Can't force anyone to learn. Putting blame on the state for students poor literacy performance feels a little "scapegoaty", reasonably it's probably shared responsibility community/state/city. If the schools are in physical ruins, why? If the schools need rebuilding, let's talk about funding.
Hardly.
There's a reason republicans invest more in private prisons, than education.
Imperfected
Member
To be fair, the prison programs that teach inmates to read probably have a higher success rate than Detroit's public schools.
DragonSworne
Banned
These people are manifestations of evil itself and we are forced to have them be our leaders? What is wrong with the people who vote for them?
hahahahahahah private prison education programs, good one
Imperfected
Member
They are, shockingly, uneducated.
No, why would I? I'm making a sarcastic joke how they are strictly screwing people on that distinction.
What did he mean by this?
Member
Snyder hasnt been impeached/arrested!!!!???????
AbsolutBro
Member
Honestly? You just need to be a lawyer representing "that side". It's their job. I would like to think that at least some of them think to themselves "what the fuck are we doing?", but I am sure plenty of them sleep just fine at night.
Incidentally, Education is one of the many facets that I wish the Federal government had direct control of. No more state-by-state nonsense, where some states are still allowed to teach creationism and other non-scientific bullshit. No more "crossing out the question and citing the bible for full credit" or whatever that bullshit was from the German exchange student thread. I would also like to see funds distributed evenly per capita, so you stop ending up with schools that are miles apart physically, but decades apart in quality and technology. It's ridiculous that this has gone on so long.
theignoramus
Member
Old racial resentments that go back to pre WW2 days, when Black folks migrated from the South up to Michigan & competed for jobs with European immigrants who bought into good old fashioned American racism.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
We ready to go french revolution on the GOP? That's where I see this shit heading.
Paracelsus
Member
Eh, they only have to upskill themselves, graduate in stem and- oh, wait.
I'm starting to think this is the only way we can stop them. A full on revolution. I can't handle all the bullshit they're about to pull off.
How little things change in five years under GOP control of a city's education.
From my post from a link that apparently no longer exists:
From my post from a link that apparently no longer exists:
MLive said:
TheChocolateWar
Member
Janitor? Farm worker? Sports player?
President?
The Hamburglar
Banned
Problem with America is the pursuit of profit trumps everything else.
Wasn't "sticking it to Black people in Detroit" Rick Snyder's central campaign platform?
I still think he purposely poisoned the water in Flint.
Trump's supporters are better armed than the military in some cases.
Employment contracts and conduct agreements, equipments manuals, warning labels on chemicals...
Fine. You now can't read. Do you know what you're going to find one hell of a lot harder now?
Reading books - this makes learning other things far harder. It probably means you're not going to get any of those qualifications that lead to better jobs and income.
Reading job listings or fill out application forms - this makes getting work even harder.
Looking up the ways you can apply for aid - that shit is probably needlessly obtuse even for people who CAN read it.
Passing the non-practical part of your driving test (and on the off-chance you pass - reading signage to know which roads you need to take. Sure you could try to bypass that by using a satnav, but then you'd need to know how to set up, use, and program the sat nav, and that's going to be pretty hard if you can't read as well).
Reading the ever changing terms and conditions of your bank.
Keeping proper tabs on the money you're spending, because if you can't read your math skills probably aren't great either.
Reading the TV guide to know what's coming on over the next week.
Keeping up with your friends and family by social media.
Texting your friends and family.
It's ALIENATING.
And should you get a job it's probably going to be a naff one. Common low paid jobs include retail and cleaning. If retail you're going to struggle taking inventory, looking up prices, looking up items, keying in codes that require you to look up items first, and probably charging people the right amount of money. Because you're going to struggle to understand the information you're seeing. It's going to be completely foreign to you.
And if cleaning you have various health and safety issues with use of chemicals and cleaning materials, or the proper operation of machinery to contend with, or the ordering of replacement supplies. How are you going to do that if you can't read the forms?
You're also going to have to contend with regular training courses that you're going to struggle to make head or tails of while everyone else sleeps through them and laughs at the fact the age related sales question asks whether you can buy lottery tickets when you're 8, or that in the fire safety test option C on the 'what not to do in case of fire' says 'run around screaming' (I'm not even joking. I've taken a test with that as an option). And you're going to STRUGGLE with the test everyone else finds easy as shit because even if you know the answers you're not going to be able to read them.
Only the unskilled labor version of a janitor for near minimum wage. If you need to be certified to run a boiler (or whatever), then no.
Unskilled farm work that isnt going to be done in a city, and is often staffed by migrant workers from Mexico because no one wants to do it for the pay.
Might as well list lottery winner if you are going to list sports player.
If you are illiterate, your (legal) job opportunities are extremely limited and almost exclusively low paying.
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