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LittleBigPlanet 2 confirmed, Game Informer info, Trailer released
- Thread starter Lagspike_exe
- Start date
jump_button
Banned
I really dont get what so good about keyboard and mouse well apart from easy typing
MurkyZebra2417
Member
Editor with mouse would be much easier to usejump_button said:
jump_button
Banned
Tryckser said:
I can't see how:/ or why you would find it hard with pad I know I wouldn't use it.
jump_button said:
The cursor has a fair bit of 'weight'.
If it was mapped 1:1 with a mouse it could be much faster.
Pop-it selection could be faster too. Just point click directly on whatever material or sticker you want instead of navigating to it (all the more so with the bigger popit screen real estate...would be much faster to get from end to end by with a mouse than with DS, and without over-doing it and ending up on the next page of the pop-it).
These things would presumably apply to Move aswell.
If certain keyboard buttons were mapped to certain functions it could also be very useful. E.g. say right arrow to increment the size of the shape you're using, left to decrement. Means you could draw with the mouse and change the size of the shape simultaneously, on the fly. Can't do that with DS setup (right stick controls scale, can't use the right-stick and hold down the 'place here' button at the same time). That's just one example of how the keyboard could be employed, there are many other possibilities.
Playing around with the editor again in the last few days, I see big room for speed/efficiency gains with mouse/kb, and Move too.
MurkyZebra2417
Member
I think its more precise than working with a controller. Also like Madman said, drawing shapes etc. should me easier with mouse. I don't think move will hold up to a mouse, because you have to point it at the TV, you don't have the precise milimeter movement like with a mouse.
jump_button
Banned
gofreak said:
It would make straight lines hard, and most of the time you not need that level of detail. And if you did you'll be better of making it big and using the cursor tool, and then making it little.
you be making more work for yourself to clean it up
Not if you could also control with the keyboard arrows by holding some other button.. fact is there is little to no limitations by using a k/m in create mode (if implemented right), it is beneficial period. However i'd rather go with the PS Move + Nunchuck tbh. Play with the Move (on non-move levels) by using the Navigator and then the wand when editing. Hell this would even allow coloring MS Paint style.jump_button said:
Tryckser said:
A mouse may be more precise if it would make for a big difference at the level of granularity LBP typically operates, I'm not sure. I also think for drawing in particular Move would be more comfortable. I'm not good drawing with a mouse, I find pen-input much easier, and Move is closer to a pen than a mouse in some respects.
jump_button said:
I'm not sure I get what you're getting at... but re. straight lines, I can see how the 'weight' on the current cursor might make straight lines easier vs a mouse with no grid, but isn't this what grids are for anyway?
edit - and as sentry suggests, using a kb toggle would be ideal for snapping grids on and off. would be MUCH faster than the current 'press start, change grid, press start again' cycle you go through currently to toggle grids.I honestly think the quality of 'artwork' in levels will go up with mouse/move, along with general productivity and efficiency. I tried for example taking pictures of art I liked using eye, and then using that as a 'tracing guide' for geometry editing, but it's just too hard with the analog sticks. Stuff like that will be far easier with a mouse, or with move. Plus, a mouse (and move if you consider it like a pen) are tools that computer artists are far more used to than an analog stick. For people with those skills, they'll suddenly be able to transfer them into LBP.
(The flip side of this is if the drawing and 'art' tools in-game mature to match the possibilities with these controls. For example, if we'll see a custom texture editor, or custom sticker editor. If I can draw more precisely, with higher fidelity, these things start to make more sense. But they'll - as always - want to balance that with the desire for simplicity. They won't want to put photoshop in there
)jump_button
Banned
gofreak said:I'm not sure I get what you're getting at... but re. straight lines, I can see how the 'weight' on the current cursor might make straight lines easier vs a mouse with no grid, but isn't this what grids are for anyway?
I honestly think the quality of 'artwork' in levels will go up with mouse/move, along with general productivity and efficiency. I tried for example taking pictures of art I liked using eye, and then using that as a 'tracing guide' for geometry editing, but it's just too hard with the analog sticks. Stuff like that will be far easier with a mouse, or with move. Plus, a mouse (and move if you consider it like a pen) are tools that computer artists are far more used to than an analog stick. For people with those skills, they'll suddenly be able to transfer them into LBP.
(The flip side of this is if the drawing and 'art' tools in-game mature to match the possibilities with these controls. For example, if we'll see a custom texture editor, or custom sticker editor. If I can draw more precisely, with higher fidelity, these things start to make more sense. But they'll - as always - want to balance that with the desire for simplicity. They won't want to put photoshop in there
Not really the way we do it now would look better then some silly MS paint. I would like transparency to sticker and highter quality stickers/screen-short.
you be shocked at what you can do now
keep everything looking LBP like
Oh I've no doubts about what can be done now and already. Some people are really really good at 'asset production' in LBP. But I think perhaps more people can be very good at that with the mouse option, and/or faster at it.
Anyway, it's a purely additive option. You needn't even try it if you don't want, and if you do and don't like it you can always go back to the pad.
Anyway, it's a purely additive option. You needn't even try it if you don't want, and if you do and don't like it you can always go back to the pad.
-PXG- said:
Wacom support or bust.
I kid
I have to say I've been getting back to LBP for the first time in a looooong time. Such a safe place. I love the fact that there's a variety of levels. I'm amazed at the stupendously creative and complex things folks can make. I can never create levels as complex as some of the ones on show, but I tend to try and make my levels look really nice with simple platforming elements.
Going to get back to that tonight.
EDIT: Have they mentioned anything about publishing videos to Youtube? I know each level will have it's own webpage, but it would still be nice.
Additionally, I still think we should be able to publish the best levels to a section on PSN that creates a standalone executable for folks who want to download it without owning LBP. Would fit their "platform for games" idea perfectly.
autobzooty
Member
-PXG- said:
Wacom already works on the XMB, it just registers on as a mouse. It's likely that tablets will be supported if mice are cos Media Molecule doesn't really have to do anything extra.
I dont get what you're saying when it comes to making a straight line.jump_button said:
Wouldnt it just be like the "selecting" feature in Windows?
You dont actually draw the line yourself..
Also, they could just do it like in Photoshop. Hold Shift + Move Mouse = straight line.
See, I think that keyboard/mouse support is being included just for the hardcore level creators. Casual creators probably wont even know that the feature is in there (unless it's printed on the box or something). I think that they 'get' what went 'wrong' with the editor last time. They need to adjust that fine line of simplicity and insanity. It needs to appear simple on the surface, but then allow you to go in depth with the tools. You can say that they allowed that in the 1st one but they were missing a lot of "out of box" features. The 1st one had depth but it lacked much needed functionality. Seems like they're adding a lot of that into the 2nd one, which is why everyone is getting excited. It's what everyone thought the 1st one would be.gofreak said:But they'll - as always - want to balance that with the desire for simplicity. They won't want to put photoshop in there
I'm actually more interested in PS Move support than the k/m. A Move + Navigator and you won't be missing out on anything except the ability to control sackboys' arms/hip, and even that could be re-mapped with motion somehow. I would totally play LBP with the Move if it means I can play both Move levels and non-Move levels, not to mention create/edit superiorly.
I'm glad they've added keyboard and mouse. More options are better. Hopefully they put in the .jpg uploader and allow you to custom make your own textures in the game with a small art program in the game... we'll see the visuals of the game skyrocket. Also, hopefully there is more geared towards allowing people to work together to create a stage. We'll see some really magnificent content if we can have 3 or 4 people working in tandem to make their own games in little big planet.
Probably wouldn't happen, but what I want to see is the camera feature improve so that we get better results when capturing a design we made.You know how you just make a design out of whatever material, color it, then take a picture of it and paste it wherever. Saves space for the same result (depending on how exactly you're using of course). I'd like to see a 'scanner' feature, similar to the camera that lets you take pictures, but a scanner that lets you simply scan a surface block and output it as an image, i.e. texture. Basically like taking a picture in the 2D front view in edit mode.kevm3 said:
I don't see why people are arguing against keyboard + mouse. Move is an additional 100 or so if you don't have the PSeye. Just about everyone has a keyboard and mouse laying around that they can just plug in via usb. More options are better. I would understand if this was competitive gaming, where keyboard and mouse would give an advantage over normal controlling users, but the more options for creation, the better. I wasn't overly fond of using the dual shocks as well.
jump_button
Banned
kevm3 said:
:lol Mm have a keyboard and mouse set up and they don't touch it, they use dual shocks just like we have.
but it ok for them that want to use it :/ but i can see it helping as much of alot of you think it will
Sorry bro, but do you fucking know anything about the Move? It's the exact opposite of what you just said, which is why the potential here is so great.Amir0x said:
I suggest you at least watch some videos of the Move in action (specifically drawing) before dismissing it like you've used it.
donkey show
Member
I want direct control already. =(
In regards to the whole kb/m, move, ds3 argument, the more tools for users, the better.
In regards to the whole kb/m, move, ds3 argument, the more tools for users, the better.
wind_steaker
Member
jump_button said:
is this true? I find it hard to believe that a profesional, paying company would have its employees use slower tools.
Oh and I'm with Amirox on move, it could be better than dual shock, but it's no mouse/tablet.
Amir0x said:
You do have more potential for 'shakey hand' while holding something up vs a mouse on a desk, sure, but otherwise Move is a different kettle of fish from the Wiimote in the context we're talking about here.
The Wiimote can't differentiate between orientation changes and translation changes. Hence in this kind of application it would be like trying to draw with a laser pointer. Move can differentiate between those two things. It's why they made such a big deal about the drawing and writing demos at E3.
Move is more like a handheld 3D mouse or pen. Perhaps more on the side of the pen in this kind of app in fact. I can't write my name very well with a mouse, nor draw very well for that matter with one. I'm much better with pen input. Move's input looks like it can be pretty much like (simple) pen input, except you hold it in the air rather than against something. I'd wager I'll do much better writing my name in sponge in LBP with Move than I will with a mouse
SolidSnakex
Member
wind_steaker said:
The majority of people that play LBP2 will use the DS3. So it makes perfect sense for them to primarily use it in order to make sure that everything works right.
wind_steaker
Member
SolidSnakex said:
Sure they'll test it thoroughly I'm sure.... but use it primarily?
kevm3 said:
I wouldn't go that far...at best it would be at 'a pen in the air' level.
You might argue there's something to be said in being able to hold Move up and draw 'directly' at the screen (with calibration) compared to a tablet. It might be a bit less abstract in that sense, a bit more physically direct, but in all other respects it wouldn't have any advantage. And obviously won't be as precise technically as a pen on a tablet (though it mightn't matter much for an app like LBP, it certainly would in other applications).
That said, for 3D editing apps, something like Move or its ilk might be preferable to a pen and tablet. John Carmack's been raving over Sixsense as a new tool they'll plug in for their level artists. But for 2D drawing...nah.
SolidSnakex
Member
wind_steaker said:
Well, they'll probably use Move and the DS3 as their main tools. That would make the most sense.
iceatcs
Junior Member
If it will be used as drawing, then I will buy glass/transparent panel and put on the front of me and writing on the glass with the move like a graphics tablet. It should better than drawing in the air.kevm3 said:
But the plug&play graphics tablet should be working on all PS3 since it move the cursor like a pc mouse. I got one but it's left at work. I haven't tried on my PS3.
I dont see how you can think that it wont help as much as people think it will. Just about everything should be quicker.jump_button said:
Devs aren't using the DS3 over the mouse just because they think its better, they also want to make sure it works. They want to say "well, we built all the story levels with the DS3 so you should be able to do levels that are at least on par with ours".
I cant believe we have arguments against the benefits of mouse/keyboards.
For me, it's Mouse > MOVE > Ds3
Although the MOVE is very accurate and precise but it is also alot laggier than a mouse(we're talking about milliseconds here).
There's been videos of demos that Anton and Mark have given where they've stated that the Move is jittery because they're hand is shaking. You either have accuracy + jitter (more RAW data oriented) or less precision + no/minimized jitter (buffered input data).Sentry said:
They've stated that they use it primarily in multiple interviews.wind_steaker said:
Also, a quick question about the MOVE that I've never understood 100%. The video delay that they talk about. Is that ONLY when they're doing the augmented reality (video of you on the tv with a sword replacing the controller) stuff?? Or does that also apply to the camera just capturing the RAW data?
iceatcs
Junior Member
I bet you that, kb & mouse won't be faster than dualshock3. I can see it is possible that kb&m cannot zoom and rotating material shape in same time like you can easy to do that in dualshock3.
Maybe selection on the menu will be faster if there is a cursor pointer on the LBP2 screen and the mouse wheel support for scroll.
Of course keyboard is only thing faster of all is type a letter/word.
So I bet KB&M will the loser all of the control options.
Maybe selection on the menu will be faster if there is a cursor pointer on the LBP2 screen and the mouse wheel support for scroll.
Of course keyboard is only thing faster of all is type a letter/word.
So I bet KB&M will the loser all of the control options.
Ever tried 3d Studio Max or Maya?iceatcs said:
Just click & hold on an object to rotate it. Use the mouse wheel to zoom in/out.
Just going by mouse usage in 3D modeling programs, its infinitely better than DS3 in LBP...there should be no question about that.
Keyboard could be used for hotkeys/shortcuts. If that's possible then it has dozens more buttons than the DS3. Hopefully custom functions can be assigned to hot keys.
This thread is making my head spin...
Look at this video and apply it to the LBP2 editor:iceatcs said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV8YzF63zmY
and another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18NeG163La0&feature=related