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[Zathalus]

Microsoft likely has a ton of money coming in from the GaaS games they have:

Minecraft
ESO
Sea of Thieves
Fallout 76
Halo Infinite

I wouldn't be surprised if all of the above games are far more profitable then most of the Sony games due to the microtransactions. We all know why Sony is so desperately chasing that GaaS cash. There is certainly a reason that Xbox has two thirds of the revenue of PlayStation despite selling less then half the amount of consoles.

Other then the above GaaS games the only recent game I would wager that has turned a really good profit are the Forza Horizon games.

Now with ABK Microsoft has strengthened this pillar of GaaS income even further, like hilariously so.

 

[Goalus]

Also look at that Sunset Overdrive budget.
$40 something million dollars for mostly nothing when contemporary budgets were nowhere as close and made better quality and better selling and more profitable games.

It was profitable though, which is hard evidence against the OP's claims.

 

[Goalus]

Microsoft likely has a ton of money coming in from the GaaS games they have:

Minecraft
ESO
Sea of Thieves
Fallout 76
Halo Infinite

Add Grounded, Age of Empires 2, Age of Empires 4 and Flight Simulator to that list. Sony can only dream of the recurring revenue these games provide.

Evergreens like Skyrim and Fallout 4 still rank higher in the Steam sales charts than the highest-selling Sony games (God of War and Spiderman according to my observation, their average sales revenue seems to be similar to Halo MCC).

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

XBox Group has been profitable since the XBox One.

You have evidence for that?

 

[Panajev2001a]

You dont know COD, Diablo, OW, Skyrim, FO, Starfield

Sorry, I forgot you can purchase money .

 

[SHA]

Double standards, people make selling units money infinite and subscriptions money finite, yeah, I see the drunken part in this thread.

 

[Team Andromeda]

You have evidence for that?

It is called results unless you can factually prove otherwise.

 

[Topher]

It is called results unless you can factually prove otherwise.

What results?

Edit: If you are talking about financial reporting, Microsoft has never stated profitability for the Xbox division.

 

[Guerilla Munch]

10 years from now, I would not be surprised if Microsoft is the #1 gaming company that generates the most net profit from gaming than any other company.

Nintendo has made over $4 billion in profits just from Mario Kart 8

 

[DForce]

Microsoft likely has a ton of money coming in from the GaaS games they have:

Minecraft
ESO
Sea of Thieves
Fallout 76
Halo Infinite

I wouldn't be surprised if all of the above games are far more profitable then most of the Sony games due to the microtransactions. We all know why Sony is so desperately chasing that GaaS cash. There is certainly a reason that Xbox has two thirds of the revenue of PlayStation despite selling less then half the amount of consoles.

Other then the above GaaS games the only recent game I would wager that has turned a really good profit are the Forza Horizon games.

Now with ABK Microsoft has strengthened this pillar of GaaS income even further, like hilariously so.

Add Grounded, Age of Empires 2, Age of Empires 4 and Flight Simulator to that list. Sony can only dream of the recurring revenue these games provide.

Evergreens like Skyrim and Fallout 4 still rank higher in the Steam sales charts than the highest-selling Sony games (God of War and Spiderman according to my observation, their average sales revenue seems to be similar to Halo MCC).

And how much money are games like Grounded making when it's out of the top 50 on most Xbox games played and only 5k concurrent players on Steam? The same goes for AoE and Flight Simulator.

Seems like a lot of Xbox fans overvalue a lot of Xbox games.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Definitely not any of their AAA single player games.

 

[rofif]

Concourse nothing from Microsoft on gp is profitable

 

[tusharngf]

Why is gaf so negative on Xbox brand. I have seen many threads about Xbox and Microsoft where people are trolling left and right lol.

 

[Kikorin]

I doubt anything about Xbox have ever been profitable, maybe in Xbox 360 days? But MS shown can waste an infinite amount of money and time to change that situation, so who knows how things will be 20yrs from now.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

It is called results unless you can factually prove otherwise.

lol, so you’re full of shit. Gotcha.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

I doubt anything about Xbox have ever been profitable, maybe in Xbox 360 days?

RRoD wiped out any possibility of profit for the 360.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Ever wonder why the majority of Xbox games don't look and animate etc to the level of a Sony title...same for the majority of the industry and third parties?

Because Sony created these type of games and are the only ones who can financially take the risk.

 

[Starbuck2907]

“The Xbox games business is also profitable and is not operating at a loss. Records indicate that Microsoft's games division made $15.56 billion revenues in 2022, driven primarily by content and services, which includes full game sales, monetization, and subscriptions like Xbox Game Pass. Based on percentages provided by Spencer in 2022, further investigation reveals that Game Pass could have made as much as 10-15% of Xbox's digital revenues representing a range of $1.197 billion to $1.796 billion for calendar 2022.”

Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9184...profitable-phil-spencer-reiterates/index.html

Plus, they just bought Activision, who make about $1.5 to $2.6 billion net revenue each year (something like $4 billion to $5 bilion gross, I think).

Microsoft primarily care about recurring revenue. Individual games are now produced primarily for gamepass like Netflix movies are made primarily for streaming. Engagement and subscription numbers matter more than an individual games profit. Sony are trying to move this direction as well.

 

[Zathalus]

And how much money are games like Grounded making when it's out of the top 50 on most Xbox games played and only 5k concurrent players on Steam? The same goes for AoE and Flight Simulator.

Seems like a lot of Xbox fans overvalue a lot of Xbox games.

I didn't mention Grounded for a reason, but the games I listed almost certainly rake in the cash. Especially Minecraft.

 

[fallingdove]

aka they make actual games and not movies walking sims.

Looks at Starfield (the walkingest walking simulator ever made)

 

[Chukhopops]

It’s weird to see this never ending talking point about Xbox losing money no matter how many times it is refuted:

- Epic vs Apple trial showing MS made between 1.6 and 2.2bn USD profit in 2019;
- Amy Hood testimony on Xbox operating margin being « lower than the rest of MS »;
- Phil Spencer testimony in the FTC trial;

All of it goes against the headcanon so it’s forgotten or considered lies. Nothing can be done about it (except laugh as people wait for Xbox to go bankrupt somehow).

 

[DenchDeckard]

It’s weird to see this never ending talking point about Xbox losing money no matter how many times it is refuted:

- Epic vs Apple trial showing MS made between 1.6 and 2.2bn USD profit in 2019;
- Amy Hood testimony on Xbox operating margin being « lower than the rest of MS »;
- Phil Spencer testimony in the FTC trial;

All of it goes against the headcanon so it’s forgotten or considered lies. Nothing can be done about it (except laugh as people wait for Xbox to go bankrupt somehow).

There seems to be a constant spin on this site to paint MS in a bad light. Mention it and its "persecution complex" Even when something negative happens to other console manufacturers it usually only takes a few days tops for it to be spun into how bad this is for Xbox.

The best option, ive found in the last 6 months is to laugh at how sad it is and move on. Let people constantly create fan fiction to make themselves feel better, I guess? and just know that every bit of evidence points to the exact opposite of what GAF or the internet thinks.

Remember, this place thought the switch was going to be a failure...That's one of the greatest ones of all time and what I instantly go to when I read something out of touch and unhinged on here

 

[FireFly]

Why is gaf so negative on Xbox brand. I have seen many threads about Xbox and Microsoft where people are trolling left and right lol.

GAF seems to have more Sony fans, and on the internet, being a fan means going to war against the opposing tribe.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

What is XBOX again please?

 

[RyRy93]

Players ≠ sales/profit

 

[Famipan]

Microsoft likely has a ton of money coming in from the GaaS games they have:

Minecraft
ESO
Sea of Thieves
Fallout 76
Halo Infinite

I wouldn't be surprised if all of the above games are far more profitable then most of the Sony games due to the microtransactions. We all know why Sony is so desperately chasing that GaaS cash. There is certainly a reason that Xbox has two thirds of the revenue of PlayStation despite selling less then half the amount of consoles.

Other then the above GaaS games the only recent game I would wager that has turned a really good profit are the Forza Horizon games.

Now with ABK Microsoft has strengthened this pillar of GaaS income even further, like hilariously so.

Yes, ATVI having Diablo, Starcraft,?Overwatch, COD including the success title COD Mobile made by Tencent etc.

 

[Topher]

GAF seems to have more Sony fans, and on the internet, being a fan means going to war against the opposing tribe.

Not just GAF. The world has more Sony fans. Being a fan doesn't automatically mean being a warrior. I'd say the vast majority of fans are not warriors. It's just the warriors are the ones that stand out and they stand out on both sides of the Sony-Microsoft fence.

 

[Gojiira]

Well OP Microsoft has been on the fence at least twice that we know of about shutting Xbox down, and the FTC showed how little actual money the brand makes. Its like others have said, very creative accounting and tactical redundancies at Xbox.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

It’s weird to see this never ending talking point about Xbox losing money no matter how many times it is refuted:

- Epic vs Apple trial showing MS made between 1.6 and 2.2bn USD profit in 2019;
- Amy Hood testimony on Xbox operating margin being « lower than the rest of MS »;
- Phil Spencer testimony in the FTC trial;

All of it goes against the headcanon so it’s forgotten or considered lies. Nothing can be done about it (except laugh as people wait for Xbox to go bankrupt somehow).

Huh… I should pay more attention to these things.

I will note, though, that someone thinking Xbox is unprofitable is very different to someone wanting Xbox to be unprofitable.

 

[Ar¢tos]

When you have more money than you can count, profit stops being something worth measuring, so instead you count the number of people you can reach with your products.
/s

 

[KungFucius]

I thought Sony had the rights? Google AI says they do.

They don't 'have' the rights. They have a deal with Marvel that they certainly pay for in some way. Whether that be a direct cut of revenue per copy like Wolverine or something else that may or may not be tied to the movie rights is just speculation at this point. Whatever it is, it is expensive and they keep paying to maintain it.

 

[skyfall]

Their own published games and gamepass has yet to make a profit. It's being upheld by microsoft money

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Why don't we all pray for another leak? Then we would really know. Merry Christmas.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

There seems to be a constant spin on this site to paint MS in a bad light.

There are Sony fans who demonise Xbox.

There are Xbox fans who demonise Sony.

There are more Sony fans than Xbox so, yes, those extremists will be more noticeable.

Among those who are more reasonable and objective, there will be more criticism of Xbox because, objectively, the Xbox division has made more, and more glaring, missteps. I think that’s pretty unarguable. As such, it would be weird indeed if Xbox didn’t receive criticism than PlayStation, simply because there is more valid criticism to be made.

None of this requires nor implies some bigger conspiracy.

 

[DForce]

I didn't mention Grounded for a reason, but the games I listed almost certainly rake in the cash. Especially Minecraft.

For your list I'm talking about Halo Infinite

 

[KungFucius]

When you have more money than you can count, profit stops being something worth measuring, so instead you count the number of people you can reach with your products.
/s

Really? Ok then how do you actually measure success of a title that is sold in small numbers on platforms like Steam and available on gamepass? If you are going to point fingers at them citing the number of people that play the game as if it is a bad measure or trying to hide something, what is the right way to do it?

 

[FireFly]

Not just GAF. The world has more Sony fans. Being a fan doesn't automatically mean being a warrior. I'd say the vast majority of fans are not warriors. It's just the warriors are the ones that stand out and they stand out on both sides of the Sony-Microsoft fence.

I agree, but even a small number of "warriors" is sufficient to turn every platform thread into console wars.

 

[Topher]

I agree, but even a small number of "warriors" is sufficient to turn every platform thread into console wars.

Yeah, it doesn't take much for it to get blown out of proportion, which most of the wars are.

 

[Gen.Grievous]

No way.

Honestly, seeing how slim the margins are puts the entire industry into perspective for those who didn't already get the gist, and reaffirms the reality in stark detail for those of us who did get it. Unfortunately, just making games and selling them at even 70 bucks isn't enough. Not for the amount of time and money that goes into it.

Games are relatively cheap and have barely increased in price compared to 20 years ago. Also you can just wait a few months and most games will be at least 20% off unless they are Nintendo games. You can argue paid DLC offsets some of the increased budgets and manpower requirements but there are plenty of SP games that have no or very limited paid DLC.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

GAF seems to have more Sony fans, and on the internet, being a fan means going to war against the opposing tribe.

No I'm just an old cranky boomer and despise GaaS games.
If I emotionally detach myself I agree that it's where the money us is though.

But my soul is in single player games and always will be.

 

[DForce]

It’s weird to see this never ending talking point about Xbox losing money no matter how many times it is refuted:

- Epic vs Apple trial showing MS made between 1.6 and 2.2bn USD profit in 2019;
- Amy Hood testimony on Xbox operating margin being « lower than the rest of MS »;
- Phil Spencer testimony in the FTC trial;

All of it goes against the headcanon so it’s forgotten or considered lies. Nothing can be done about it (except laugh as people wait for Xbox to go bankrupt somehow).

The FTC trial revealed a lot.

Xbox profits revealed in new FTC leak

Gamers, investors, consumers and competitors finally get a concrete answer on just how profitable Microsoft's Xbox video games division actually is.

www.tweaktown.com

How Microsoft reports its revenue, profit margin, accountability margin etc. always leaves more questions than answers.

I'm not saying you personally, but it's funny how people were writing off Sony because they wouldn't have the money to compete with Microsoft this generation (Game Pass and Cloud) but as soon as we bring up Microsoft failures, people just start throwing a fit.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Why is gaf so negative on Xbox brand. I have seen many threads about Xbox and Microsoft where people are trolling left and right lol.

What exactly is there to be positive about?

Led by a liar
Tanking in console sales
Contorting the industry using daddy's wallet rather than making good choices and being creative
Misplaced arrogance

It's not trolling to point those things out - they are objective facts.

Frankly if they didn't have daddy's wallet to bail them out and subsidise them heavily the brand would be dead by now and rightly so.

 

[prinz_valium]

Completely different business models.

Single player games without MTX vs ongoing live service games.

 

[DForce]

Why is gaf so negative on Xbox brand. I have seen many threads about Xbox and Microsoft where people are trolling left and right lol.

There were many negative PlayStation threads over the years, but they're now far in between because the PlayStation division is performing well while the Xbox division keeps declining.

This generation launched with Microsoft acquiring Zenimax and people were saying Sony would have trouble competing because of the Cloud and Game Pass.

And now we're here.

 

[Chukhopops]

The FTC trial revealed a lot.

Xbox profits revealed in new FTC leak

Gamers, investors, consumers and competitors finally get a concrete answer on just how profitable Microsoft's Xbox video games division actually is.

www.tweaktown.com

How Microsoft reports its revenue, profit margin, accountability margin etc. always leaves more questions than answers.

I'm not saying you personally, but it's funny how people were writing off Sony because they wouldn't have the money to compete with Microsoft this generation (Game Pass and Cloud) but as soon as we bring up Microsoft failures, people just start throwing a fit.

Not sure where you’re going with all this, my point is there’s plenty of data showing profitability of the gaming division. Lower profit margin (compared to 40% for the rest of MS) is still profit margin.

The only counter point is the dream some people have every night about Phil Spencer destroying the industry.

 

[DForce]

Not sure where you’re going with all this, my point is there’s plenty of data showing profitability of the gaming division. Lower profit margin (compared to 40% for the rest of MS) is still profit margin.

The only counter point is the dream some people have every night about Phil Spencer destroying the industry.

How is there plenty of data when MS doesn't report it?

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

Why is gaf so negative on Xbox brand. I have seen many threads about Xbox and Microsoft where people are trolling left and right lol.

Because since X360 golden era, Xbox has done nothing to elevate the brand, indeed quite the opposite is true, they’ve buried the brand deep into the ground.
2 generations now of wasted opportunities, and nothing appears to be changing this trajectory.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Really? Ok then how do you actually measure success of a title that is sold in small numbers on platforms like Steam and available on gamepass? If you are going to point fingers at them citing the number of people that play the game as if it is a bad measure or trying to hide something, what is the right way to do it?

somebody didn't notice the ispoiler at the end of my post....

 

[Chukhopops]

How is there plenty of data when MS doesn't report it?

I’ve literally posted three examples coming from lawsuits / testimony data. The most damning one, which is constantly ignored is from the Epic vs Apple trial, where MS is listed to have made over 1B in gaming profit in 2019. This is straight from a trial document and has never been disproved ever.

Where is the evidence that MS gaming division is losing money?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Edit: If you are talking about financial reporting, Microsoft has never stated profitability for the Xbox division.

Which is a dead giveaway it is not profitable.