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[Team Andromeda]

I'm not the one making the assertion that "results" show anything at all. That's you. It is up to you to back up your own argument. Clearly, these "results" you pointed to were entirely made up.

And what part of "Microsoft financial reports don't tell us Xbox division profitability" are you not understanding?

What part of Microsoft's financial Xbox division's lack of profitability reports are you not understanding?
Isn't it true that XBox has overtaken Playstaiion for revenue?

 

[Heisenberg007]

What part of Microsoft's financial Xbox division's lack of profitability reports are you not understanding?

Why do they hide the numbers if they are so profitable?

Isn't it true that XBox has overtaken Playstaiion for revenue?

lol no Xbox will still remain at #3 in revenue, behind Sony (#1) and Tencent (#2) even after combing ABK + Xbox revenue.

 

[jm89]

Even a game at Halo Infinites level brings in a very steady income due to microtransactions. Hence why most publishers are attempting to board the GaaS train.

Probably shouldn't have mentioned it, as most people would rather have a laugh about it rather then actually acknowledge the point.

Do you have any evidence to show halo infinite is actually bringing in a steady income?

Yes alot of publishers are attempting GAAS but that's from success from trying to replicate other successfull GAAS games certainly not halo infinite.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Actually posts like these are the ones that seem insecure because they come across as being threatened by the existence of the discussion at all.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Xbox has posted loss several times - even during their most successful period, Xbox 360.

Then Microsoft just stopped sharing Xbox financial data and started hiding it. If they were profitable, they would be sharing everything transparently.

If you say they are profitable, you'll have to show their numbers. Otherwise, it is only logical to assume that they are hiding their loss.

Also, when asked about the current state of the Xbox business, this is what Phil Spencer had to say:





Not to mention that Phil was having "hard discussions about Xbox P&L" with Satya Nadella and Amy Hood.

I said since the Xbox One Era. As I said it took until the Halo 3 launch for the XBox group to post its 1st profit for crying out loud.
Please read what people type

 

[Heisenberg007]

I said since the Xbox One Era. As I said it took until the Halo 3 launch for the XBox group to post its 1st profit for crying out loud.
Please read what people type

So you're saying that they made losses in the successful 360 generation but magically turned profitable in their worst generation that was Xbox One?

If yes, can you show a financial report of the Xbox division being profitable after the Xbox One era to back up your claim?

 

[Topher]

What part of Microsoft's financial Xbox division's lack of profitability reports are you not understanding?
Isn't it true that XBox has overtaken Playstaiion for revenue?

I understand completely that we cannot say Xbox has been profitable or not since Xbox One based on the financial reports. Exactly what I have been saying. You are the one struggling here while making up "results" that don't exist.

No idea if Xbox really has overtaken PlayStation in revenue or not. Has nothing to do with profits since Xbox One, but now you are clearly trying to deflect.

 

[Zathalus]

Do you have any evidence to show halo infinite is actually bringing in a steady income?

Yes alot of publishers are attempting GAAS but that's from success from trying to replicate other GAAS games certainly not halo infinite.

Simple logic? 7k players on Steam and continued popularity on Xbox. Combine that with a lot of microtransactions and a battle pass system and it would obviously be making money.

Is it a massive GaaS success? No it is not, but you don't need to be Fortnite or Minecraft to make money.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Team Andromeda - The easiest way to shut us all up is by sharing Xbox financial reports that show profits in the last 10 years and prove that you were telling the truth.

You dragged this argument to 4 pages. Let's hand us all a big L and share a profitable financial report of the Xbox division.

Edit:

 

[X-Wing]

Isn't it true that XBox has overtaken Playstaiion for revenue?

Bruh

 

[Heisenberg007]

Simple logic? 7k players on Steam and continued popularity on Xbox. Combine that with a lot of microtransactions and a battle pass system and it would obviously be making money.

Is it a massive GaaS success? No it is not, but you don't need to be Fortnite or Minecraft to make money.

That's a big assumption, considering you're unaware of the operating costs to keep the studio and servers up.

Whatever money it makes - is it more or less than the costs?

 

[jm89]

Simple logic? 7k players on Steam and continued popularity on Xbox. Combine that with a lot of microtransactions and a battle pass system and it would obviously be making money.

Is it a massive GaaS success? No it is not, but you don't need to be Fortnite or Minecraft to make money.

I mean you did say "likely bring tons of money"

With layoffs that they faced earlier on, i'm not seeing it.

 

[RoboFu]

Game profits matter little when you are licensing ip such as mine craft and halo.
Merchandise makes way more money.

Sony doesn’t get all the profits from Spider-Man game related licensing.. they do have some sort of profit sharing deal with marvel but Spider-Man to Sony is more of a brand builder than a direct profit powerhouse.

 

[graywolf323]

Actually posts like these are the ones that seem insecure because they come across as being threatened by the existence of the discussion at all.

and this thread alone is riddled with posts like that… but the persecution complex runs deep

they won’t be happy until GAF is run like Era

 

[Topher]

Game profits matter little when you are licensing ip such as mine craft and halo.
Merchandise makes way more money.

Sony doesn’t get all the profits from Spider-Man game related licensing.. they do have some sort of profit sharing deal with marvel but Spider-Man to Sony is more of a brand builder than a direct profit powerhouse.

Minecraft and Halo merchandise makes more money than the games? Where is that coming from?

 

[owandeseis]

It's as much a GaaS as Minecraft is.

Minecraft has many purchasable things ingame, cosmetics etc, and you have to pay for servers to play online with friends too i think, Grounded has nothing purchasable other than the game, BG3 is a better comparison, it also released in early access, then the full version, and then it'll get some updates just like Divinity 1 and 2, for free.

My issue is that he added games to the list and said, "Sony can only dream of the recurring revenue these games provide."

So does Grounded have a lot of "recurring revenue" when the player count is low? Or what about Age of Empires? How much profit did Halo Infinite make after the disastrous launch and are they making enough while they make more content for the game?

His statement that Sony can only dream about having recurring revenue is disingenuous for most of the games listed. We know MLB the Show is on multiple platforms that generate revenue and it's a yearly title. We know Gran Turismo 7 is also a GaaS.

Oh my bad then, Grounded doesn't have cosmetics or stuff like that, so player count doesn't really matter, and it's not going to get some big recurring revnue other than just from the people who buy the game, still it generated a lot of money, specially compared to the cost.

About AoE or Halo Infinite, yes, these are yearly on the Steam's most sold games (the games that generated more money basically), not sure about AoE, but Halo has cosmetics, battle pass etc that generates good money, and it seems it's getting better numbers lately, still it is a Xbox centric game so it's not doing that great on PC compared tho.

But yes, cosmetics, battlepass etc makes a lot of money, the most profitable games yearly are games that are F2P normally, that's something Sony has to work on, also on their single player games.

 

[Zathalus]

That's a big assumption, considering you're unaware of the operating costs to keep the studio and servers up.

Whatever money it makes - is it more or less than the costs?

Server costs are Azure based and scale appropriately for the number of players. Nobody would have immense amounts of sever capacity lying around it it is not being utilized. Scaling up/down with Azure is trivial, especially for a Microsoft studio like 343. Nor is server capacity actually expensive, especially since 343 doesn't have to worry about markup costs.

As for the amount of developers working on it, no idea, 343 is working on the next project as well. I'll say that the new content for Halo Infinite has only been getting better (apparently, I don't play it but that's what I can discern from looking into it), seems unlikely to bother doing that if there isn't money coming in.

I mean you did say "likely bring tons of money"

With layoffs that they faced earlier on, i'm not seeing it.

Pretty sure I listed a number of games other then just Halo Infinite. Obviously I'm referring to all of them.

 

[Gavon West]

No, I can't, because I'm not the one bitchin' about the thread.

I asked a series of questions to someone not named Gavon West, and because it's causing your brain trouble, you continue to insert yourself. And you clearly "give a fuck" because you keep quoting me.

You can live in whatever bubble you decide to live in my guy. Makes no difference to me. I asked a ligament question and I stand by it. Maybe try not being so defensive. Its just a question. Lol.

 

[ReBurn]

Minecraft and Halo merchandise makes more money than the games? Where is that coming from?

GameStop probably. You can't even see the games for all of the merch clutter.

Oh, wait. You were asking for a source. Never mind.

 

[Topher]

GameStop probably. You can't even see the games for all of the merch clutter.

Oh, wait. You were asking for a source. Never mind.

Wouldn't doubt it a bit if Gamestop makes more money on merchandise these days. Find it hard to believe Microsoft does though.

 

[jm89]

Pretty sure I listed a number of games other then just Halo Infinite. Obviously I'm referring to all of them.

Sure.

But your just lumping all of them in saying oh yeah these likely make a ton of money. When you can't even show the proof for one, other then guesswork.

I mean i'm not saying some of those don't make money on the reguler, but some of those are suspect.

 

[ProtoByte]

Games are relatively cheap and have barely increased in price compared to 20 years ago. Also you can just wait a few months and most games will be at least 20% off unless they are Nintendo games. You can argue paid DLC offsets some of the increased budgets and manpower requirements but there are plenty of SP games that have no or very limited paid DLC.

Yep.

You're gonna see 80-90 USD games next gen, and they're going to slowly keep prices at initial MSRP for longer. If you pay a premium for Nintendo games years after release, there's no reason you shouldn't be paying a similar premium for a lot of other AAAs.

 

[Zathalus]

Sure.

But your just lumping all of them in saying oh yeah these likely make a ton of money. When you can't even show the proof for one, other then guesswork.

I mean i'm not saying some of those don't make money on the reguler, but some of those are suspect.

The only one that is maybe suspect is Halo. Minecraft is the best selling game of all time and is available on every platform under the sun while ESO and Fallout 76 have a very solid player base and keep getting content drops on the regular. Both are microtransactions hell and are the perfect games to attract whales, so I don't doubt both make good money.

 

[ReBurn]

Xbox has posted loss several times - even during their most successful period, Xbox 360.

Then Microsoft just stopped sharing Xbox financial data and started hiding it. If they were profitable, they would be sharing everything transparently.

If you say they are profitable, you'll have to show their numbers. Otherwise, it is only logical to assume that they are hiding their loss.

Also, when asked about the current state of the Xbox business, this is what Phil Spencer had to say:





Not to mention that Phil was having "hard discussions about Xbox P&L" with Satya Nadella and Amy Hood.

We have what they said, but we also see what happened after. Satya still promoted Phil and gave him $69b to buy Activision, so they must have come to a some sort of positive resolution about Xbox P&L.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

You can live in whatever bubble you decide to live in my guy. Makes no difference to me. I asked a ligament question and I stand by it. Maybe try not being so defensive. Its just a question. Lol.

Bubble? Defensive?

Let's review — you griped about deflections, insecurities, etc. and never actually tackled my questions (which weren't posed to you). Then you told me to take your issue up with the TC. You simply didn't have to quote me, but struggle with legitimate criticisms of Xbox and couldn't help yourself. Your question,
"Like, what does that have to do with Xbox?", was answered in the OP (hence why I said take your issue up with the TC).


As far as my questions are concerned — since it's apparent that they are a problem, explain why. What is there to be insecure about? What has Microsoft done that would make GAF's Sony fans feel a need to make a thread like this and why is it bad for the OP to ask a question about budgets as it pertains to Xbox in conjunction with its closest competitor?

 

[RoboFu]

Minecraft and Halo merchandise makes more money than the games? Where is that coming from?

Ugh really? Don’t be dense.

Let’s just look at two mine craft merchandising points .,

Mattel this year made MS 200 million in toy sales.

Mattel and Minecraft partnership reportedly delivers over $200 million in revenue

Mattel, Inc. and Minecraft have reportedly brought over $200 million in revenue to the companies' pockets, according to a LinkedIn entry.

mspoweruser.com

Lego this year made 9 billion in revenue and Minecraft was one in the top sets.

now think about all the other Minecraft merch out there. Clothes, book
Bags, lunch boxes, plushies, lamps, blankets.. etc etc

The game revenue even adding minecoin and mod market place makes 300 - 400 million a year which is huge for a game. But Mattel alone made ms half that in licensing.

 

[Chukhopops]

Multiple billions spent on purchasing publishers.

Man this is the ABK acquisition thread all over again, including the whole « I don’t understand accounting » part.

 

[Thirty7ven]

We have what they said, but we also see what happened after. Satya still promoted Phil and gave him $69b to buy Activision, so they must have come to a some sort of positive resolution about Xbox P&L.

They buy ABK because otherwise there’s no path forward. Remember ABK is a massive investment on software, not hardware. Nadella himself said that they were putting weight on the gaming division because “games are the future of software”.

 

[Topher]

Ugh really? Don’t be dense.

Choose better next time.

Let’s just look at two mine craft merchandising points .,

Mattel this year made MS 200 million in toy sales.

Mattel and Minecraft partnership reportedly delivers over $200 million in revenue

Mattel, Inc. and Minecraft have reportedly brought over $200 million in revenue to the companies' pockets, according to a LinkedIn entry.

mspoweruser.com

Lego this year made 9 billion in revenue and Minecraft was one in the top sets.

now think about all the other Minecraft merch out there. Clothes, book
Bags, lunch boxes, plushies, lamps, blankets.. etc etc

The game revenue even adding minecoin and mod market place makes 300 - 400 million a year which is huge for a game. But Mattel alone made ms half that in licensing.

That's $200 million "delivered" since the inception of the deal in 2015. Not yearly. Also, a big chunk of money belongs to Mattel. Why are you pretending Microsoft gets all of it? Rest of your post is speculation.

 

[Calverz]

What was it mods say, don’t post sweeping statements without context?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

What was it mods say, don’t post sweeping statements without context?

This is hard for me, because Heather Mason is probably my favorite girl/female character in gaming, but, eh, I'm taking the plunge...

The context, "Microsoft's games can't make money if they don't sell nearly what Spider-Man does and have similar budgets, right"? I would say the OP's issue is more of a lack of content. For example, what are these budgets and how do we know if the games don't make money? Fortunately, a few posters in here have shared data showing that Microsoft (specifically Xbox) isn't exactly making money (despite their revenue stream being a more positive piece. So then, one can assume their individual games aren't either because Microsoft (who has a history of showboating when things are going their way) stays mum on the subject.

 

[DenchDeckard]

To touch on the ops point. Even microsofts games like gears and halo have never come close to the Hollywood blockbuster look that Sony games have. This has often caused to many negative comments on how the games look "barely next gen" etc.

The reality is. If you have the money and time, games can look like the last of us 2 but no studios outside of the naughty dogs, insomniacs etc can risk that kind of investment and the publishers etc are not willing to take the risk to invest that much in a single title.

I think the best thing about this leak is that people have now got the information that, even a game like spider man 2...which looks to re use a lot of assets and isn't leagues ahead of the ps4 games cost hundreds of million dollars to make...and can make their own opinion on if that investment is worth it.

I'm not sure it is, personally but I thoroughly enjoyed spider man 2 so that's that.

 

[simpatico]

Well Halo certainly isn't it. But I wonder about the size of the Forza teams...

 

[RoboFu]

Choose better next time.



That's $200 million "delivered" since the inception of the deal in 2015. Not yearly. Also, a big chunk of money belongs to Mattel. Why are you pretending Microsoft gets all of it? Rest of your post is speculation.

 

[twilo99]

OP why you dragging Microsoft into this mess?

Console war bait maybe but probably not

 

[twilo99]

Bruh

They won’t be that far off I guess

Top Companies by Gaming Revenue

Apple is coming for us ...

www.neogaf.com

 

[HeWhoWalks]

To touch on the ops point. Even microsofts games like gears and halo have never come close to the Hollywood blockbuster look that Sony games have. This has often caused to many negative comments on how the games look "barely next gen" etc.

The reality is. If you have the money and time, games can look like the last of us 2 but no studios outside of the naughty dogs, insomniacs etc can risk that kind of investment and the publishers etc are not willing to take the risk to invest that much in a single title.

I think the best thing about this leak is that people have now got the information that, even a game like spider man 2...which looks to re use a lot of assets and isn't leagues ahead of the ps4 games cost hundreds of million dollars to make...and can make their own opinion on if that investment is worth it.

I'm not sure it is, personally but I thoroughly enjoyed spider man 2 so that's that.

I disagree. The original Gears of War definitely had that visual flair of "now this is next gen". In fact, the PS3 struggled in the beginning with an exclusive game that went toe-to-toe with it (besides Heavenly Sword, who's character models had little trouble competing with Gears', especially thanks to mo-cap). Still, that overall consensus didn't begin to change until Uncharted: Drake's Fortune released.

Besides, it's not just money. The Insomniacs, Naughty Dogs, etc. could have all the money they want, but without that talent, it matters far less. The latest Halo game, for example, was hardly strapped for cash. The talent that made the Halo games..... well..... Halo, had mostly moved on and we're seeing subsequent releases suffer partially because of that.

Now sure, a decent budget is necessary, particularly in today's climate, but so is a team that knows how to get the job done without it. Microsoft's biggest issue is having the right talent and putting them in the right places. If nothing else, they prove that money isn't everything.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Huh… I should pay more attention to these things.

I will note, though, that someone thinking Xbox is unprofitable is very different to someone wanting Xbox to be unprofitable.

On this forum, there are a lot of people who would orgasm at the thought of Microsoft leaving the gaming industry.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I disagree. The original Gears of War definitely had that visual flair of "now this is next gen". In fact, the PS3 struggled in the beginning with an exclusive game that went toe-to-toe with it (besides Heavenly Sword, who's character models had little trouble competing with Gears', especially thanks to mo-cap). Still, that overall consensus didn't begin to change until Uncharted: Drake's Fortune released.

Besides, it's not just money. The Insomniacs, Naughty Dogs, etc. could have all the money they want, but without that talent, it matters far less. The latest Halo game, for example, was hardly strapped for cash. The talent that made the Halo games..... well..... Halo, had mostly moved on and we're seeing subsequent releases suffer partially because of that.

Now sure, a decent budget is necessary, particularly in today's climate, but so is a team that knows how to get the job done without it. Microsoft's biggest issue is having the right talent and putting them in the right places. If nothing else, they prove that money isn't everything.

You're talking about gears 1. Which was like 16 years ago probably and probably cost like one 20th of spiderman 2. Probably needed to sell like 1.5 million copies to break even maybe less.

Shit started getting crazy from like uncharted 2 onwards.

 

[mansoor1980]

OP has a point
need MICROSOFT GAME SUDIOS leak

 

[HeWhoWalks]

You're talking about gears 1. Which was like 16 years ago probably and probably cost like one 20th of spiderman 2. Probably needed to sell like 1.5 million copies to break even maybe less.

Shit started getting crazy from like uncharted 2 onwards.

Because you said "Even microsofts games like gears and halo have never come close to the Hollywood blockbuster look that Sony games have". That is simply not true. "That was 16 years ago". Then you proceed to bring up Uncharted 2 — a game from 14 years ago.

At one time, the top Xbox lookers at least competed. Gears 2 and 3 were worthy visual competitors despite not quite matching the prowess of stuff like God of War III or Uncharted 3. It at least showed what the right team(s)/talent could do. Hellblade II will be the first game in a long time to give Sony's studios a run for their money on the exclusive (Xbox/PC) end.

 

[Gavon West]

Xbox has posted loss several times - even during their most successful period, Xbox 360.

Then Microsoft just stopped sharing Xbox financial data and started hiding it. If they were profitable, they would be sharing everything transparently.

If you say they are profitable, you'll have to show their numbers. Otherwise, it is only logical to assume that they are hiding their loss.

Also, when asked about the current state of the Xbox business, this is what Phil Spencer had to say:





Not to mention that Phil was having "hard discussions about Xbox P&L" with Satya Nadella and Amy Hood.

Bro...these articles are from, like, before Moses? Lol

 

[Arsic]

None of these companies are wise with their $ except Nintendo.

EPIC makes bank off Fortnite and flushes it down the toilet with epic games store.

Neither Sony or Xbox is on a profitable path.

 

[bender]

Choose better next time.

 

[Gavon West]

Actually posts like these are the ones that seem insecure because they come across as being threatened by the existence of the discussion at all.

Thats crap. Insecure for what? My mans literally made a thread about the budget of Spiderman #2 and then tries to compare it to Xbox as if, surely if Sony is having budget issues and cant cover sales, Xbox must being doing worse. Why not just keep the conversation about what it was about? Why not try to figure out why Insomniac/Sony have bulging budgets?

My mans went straight to deflecting and making it about something else. I'd rather know why the game costs $300+. Its not about insecurities like, at all. Sony and Microsoft have already proven they arent the same when it comes to business models.

 

[bender]

Thats crap. Insecure for what? My mans literally made a thread about the budget of Spiderman #2 and then tries to compare it to Xbox as if, surely if Sony is having budget issues and cant cover sales, Xbox must being doing worse. Why not just keep the conversation about what it was about? Why not try to figure out why Insomniac/Sony have bulging budgets?

My mans went straight to deflecting and making it about something else. I'd rather know why the game costs $300+. Its not about insecurities like, at all. Sony and Microsoft have already proven they arent the same when it comes to business models.

 

[adamsapple]

How do I turn bad news for Sony into even worse news for Microsoft?

The mental gymnastics….

Looking at Subway's budget, there's no way Chipotle can be profitable right?

 

[Topher]

Thats crap. Insecure for what? My mans literally made a thread about the budget of Spiderman #2 and then tries to compare it to Xbox as if, surely if Sony is having budget issues and cant cover sales, Xbox must being doing worse. Why not just keep the conversation about what it was about? Why not try to figure out why Insomniac/Sony have bulging budgets?

My mans went straight to deflecting and making it about something else. I'd rather know why the game costs $300+. Its not about insecurities like, at all. Sony and Microsoft have already proven they arent the same when it comes to business models.

All that can be true and it is still insecurity whining that the thread exists so no, it isn’t crap at all. Folks should learn to use the ignore thread feature.

You are free to think otherwise obviously so not sure there is any point in arguing about it. We just disagree

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

On this forum, there are a lot of people who would orgasm at the thought of Microsoft leaving the gaming industry.

True.

On this forum, there are also people who would orgasm at the thought of Microsoft monopolising the gaming industry. People, as a whole, are fucking idiots. Again, this is not evidence of a conspiracy.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

None of these companies are wise with their $ except Nintendo.

EPIC makes bank off Fortnite and flushes it down the toilet with epic games store.

Neither Sony or Xbox is on a profitable path.

Whether or not they are "wise" is certainly something they know better than we do. It's easier to speculate other things. Microsoft could leave gaming tomorrow and it wouldn't hurt their bottom line. Sony? Clearly doing something right as the PlayStation business does a lot for the company. Nintendo plays it safer than anyone else and capitalize on what they do best.

The Fuzz damn you!

Fapping to Microsoft leaving gaming hardly makes one an idiot.