I feel the problem with MS Xbox strategy/tactic is how it always subtracts value from somewhere. Instead of spending the money to create more stuff, the cash is generally used to block people out from existing contents or games. Even XBL is like this... subtracts the usability of the machine when it runs out.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Looking Back At Microsoft's 13 Years of First Party
- Thread starter QaaQer
- Start date
If you're going to be hostile about numbers you should probably have the right numbers.
StealthGoblin
Banned
All I can say about Microsoft's 13 years in publishing games for consoles is that they haven't came up with a series I'm still interested in. They recycle the same names every few years and are happy to just bumble along. There are the odd game here and there (I was very interested in Alan Wake but then... ehhhh) that I like the look of but I don't have the sense of confidence or trust in them like I do Nintendo or Sony.
Yup, years of stellar titles from Sony's first party are undone simply thanks to the existence of Knack. That makes sense.
Subjective opinions and all, but I have trouble believing that most people would rate MS's first party as anything other than a distant third.
Sony has closed a shit load of studios in the past 5 years, far more than Microsoft has.
Microsoft has opened a shitload of studios in the past 5 years, far more than Sony has.
Yet here we are. Apparently contracting studios to make games is awful and the only "honourable" way to make games is by first party. It doesn't matter that without Microsoft games like Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Crackdown, Gears of War, Crimson Dragon, Ryse, Dead Rising, Tintanfall wouldn't even exist/be released. All that matters is fuck Microsoft because they don't own those studios.
But if Microsoft DOES go and buy studios, then fuck Microsoft for throwing their money around. Those assholes buy everything. I mean, they ruined RARE! People crucify Microsoft for not having diversity, but when Microsoft lets Rare release Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Conker: Live and Reloaded, Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, Viva Pinata, and a revamped Banjo & Kazooie (which Rare wanted to do themselves), and they all are mediocre sellers, then its Microsoft's fault. Rare finally gets a huge hit copying Nintendo's formula with Kinect Sports, and then let's scream about how Microsoft is ruining Rare.
Sony probably paid a few hundred million sponsoring FIFA Championships and World Cup. But if Microsoft signs a multi-year deal with NFL for a range of products then fuck them for spending all that money. WHY NOT GAMES??!!
Forget that Microsoft literally just earmarked a billion dollars for game development.
Online Gaming as a standard?
Hard drives as a standard?
Voice Chat as Standard?
Literally creating the Indie space and Digital Store for smaller games on console?
Matchmaking systems that every developer in the industry uses?
Party Chat that's universal?
Apps becoming standard for consoles to make consoles a lot more robust?
Nope, fuck'em for horse armour and patches! They brought that in to the industry! Before games were developed properly so they didn't patching!
Sony totally ran with the ball and introduced Online passes for every major release when Microsoft never once used online passes? Let's just sweep that under the rug.
Microsoft is LITERALLY the worst for charging for peer to peer online. How does Sony manage to do it? Wait, Sony started charging for PS4 online play... Whatever, online gaming needed to improve. Not a single fucking peep from anyone about paying for online play anymore because we're satiated with getting a couple of indie games every month.
BTW, FUCK EA or ACTIVISION or any other publishers that also tries to give out their back catalog of games for just a couple of bucks per month. Especially cause that shit is exclusive to Xbox and Sony rejected it so fuck that business model.
Everything Microsoft does sucks.
Microsoft has opened a shitload of studios in the past 5 years, far more than Sony has.
Yet here we are. Apparently contracting studios to make games is awful and the only "honourable" way to make games is by first party. It doesn't matter that without Microsoft games like Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Crackdown, Gears of War, Crimson Dragon, Ryse, Dead Rising, Tintanfall wouldn't even exist/be released. All that matters is fuck Microsoft because they don't own those studios.
But if Microsoft DOES go and buy studios, then fuck Microsoft for throwing their money around. Those assholes buy everything. I mean, they ruined RARE! People crucify Microsoft for not having diversity, but when Microsoft lets Rare release Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Conker: Live and Reloaded, Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, Viva Pinata, and a revamped Banjo & Kazooie (which Rare wanted to do themselves), and they all are mediocre sellers, then its Microsoft's fault. Rare finally gets a huge hit copying Nintendo's formula with Kinect Sports, and then let's scream about how Microsoft is ruining Rare.
Sony probably paid a few hundred million sponsoring FIFA Championships and World Cup. But if Microsoft signs a multi-year deal with NFL for a range of products then fuck them for spending all that money. WHY NOT GAMES??!!
Forget that Microsoft literally just earmarked a billion dollars for game development.
Online Gaming as a standard?
Hard drives as a standard?
Voice Chat as Standard?
Literally creating the Indie space and Digital Store for smaller games on console?
Matchmaking systems that every developer in the industry uses?
Party Chat that's universal?
Apps becoming standard for consoles to make consoles a lot more robust?
Nope, fuck'em for horse armour and patches! They brought that in to the industry! Before games were developed properly so they didn't patching!
Sony totally ran with the ball and introduced Online passes for every major release when Microsoft never once used online passes? Let's just sweep that under the rug.
Microsoft is LITERALLY the worst for charging for peer to peer online. How does Sony manage to do it? Wait, Sony started charging for PS4 online play... Whatever, online gaming needed to improve. Not a single fucking peep from anyone about paying for online play anymore because we're satiated with getting a couple of indie games every month.
BTW, FUCK EA or ACTIVISION or any other publishers that also tries to give out their back catalog of games for just a couple of bucks per month. Especially cause that shit is exclusive to Xbox and Sony rejected it so fuck that business model.
Everything Microsoft does sucks.
HowardRoark
Member
I want a new Crimson Skies.
Thank you for entirely ignoring every point I'm making. My reply was not fiction.
The Hanafuda card reference was to point out that Nintendo started in one business and moved to another. Like Microsoft. Microsoft aren't allowed to do that, according to you, because they "don't belong" in gaming. But Nintendo and Sony can. Microsoft were making video games way before Sony were, my friend. But hey - pick and choose your logic to suit your argument. That's fine.
And that MASSIVE graph you posted proves nothing. "Nintendo's only business is not gaming" say I. So to prove me wrong you post a graph detailing Nintendo's hardware revenues from gaming, and then tell me that all other revenue is from software. Without any proof. Good work.
And yes, my "quasi-logic" suggests that Microsoft's gaming division can keep doing this and lose money for the next 100 years. Because they probably can. If their other business areas make up for the losses, why would that not be true? If I lose $1 billion every year on t-shirts that don't sell as many as my rival's t-shirts, but my sweatshirt division makes $4 billion a year in profits...why would I ever be financially forced to stop making and selling t-shirts?
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
When trying to shoot down other people's arguments, I too always make up bullshit, it's way more effective.
They just need better PR.
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
I mean, I really don't think there's such a need for such dramatic rhetoric. You seem to be taking this really personally.
As it stands, of course MS has done some good in the console space - as you point out, voice chat, online gaming, standard hard drives (although let's not forget the clusterfuck of xbox 360 core vs pro models). Most people aren't really arguing that. What they are arguing is that Microsoft hasn't really done a great job in fostering first party development and the potential great IPs that they hold.
Kinda funny to see some of the usual names defending MS in here.
I bought my 360 at the thought of finally getting Rare games. Exclusive Bioware rpgs. Exclusive games from Team Ninja. GOOD Fabke games. Hell even games in genres I wasn't interested in ended up fun like PGR or Halo wars.
Microsoft let it all slip away though. Even while the og xbox had a lot of crap games like kung fu chaos, voodoo vince, sudeki, blinx etc at least it was an attempt at varied and original exclusives. The twilight years of 360 seemed to mostly be annual Halo and forza rehashes, neither of which I have an interest in.
They have so much money yet refuse to seem to do anything with first party development. Create new jobs, push new I.ps that will PERMANENTLY be exclusive. Don't just throw cash to deny ps4/pc gamers games that they were due.
I bought my 360 at the thought of finally getting Rare games. Exclusive Bioware rpgs. Exclusive games from Team Ninja. GOOD Fabke games. Hell even games in genres I wasn't interested in ended up fun like PGR or Halo wars.
Microsoft let it all slip away though. Even while the og xbox had a lot of crap games like kung fu chaos, voodoo vince, sudeki, blinx etc at least it was an attempt at varied and original exclusives. The twilight years of 360 seemed to mostly be annual Halo and forza rehashes, neither of which I have an interest in.
They have so much money yet refuse to seem to do anything with first party development. Create new jobs, push new I.ps that will PERMANENTLY be exclusive. Don't just throw cash to deny ps4/pc gamers games that they were due.
That point? That's where you lost me. Kung Fu Chaos was where it was AT.
It is literally console wars bullshit. Sony made the (at the time) cheaper and slightly more powerful hardware. So most games are gonna have a resolution bump. and Microsoft made a huge blunder by introducing digital distribution when the world wasn't ready. (still major lack of interent access, shitty ISPs, bandwidth caps).
So between the two, people are choosing the PS4. Which is fine. But they feel the need to make this a moral and honorable victory and they have to shit on Microsoft at every turn over every business decisions. It's also much easier to ignore any bad thing Sony does/did because now that's the company their backing and they were the heroes for a few months. But shit that was said or done under completely different management nearly a decade ago...THAT we have to bring up every day. Just look at Don Mattrick quotes every time Phil Spencer says anything.
Mixolydian
Member
Well said. To be fair, the hypocrisy and general fanboy bullshit goes both ways, but yes, lots of selective memories/quotes.
Microsoft > Sony
Sony > Microsoft
Piles of shit > fanboys
Don't underestimate quirky games. They can have rabid fanbases which as an aggregate can move units. Persona is a quirky little game but a lot of people picked up vita's for golden. Etrian odessy is as well and I bought a 3DS for it. Sony has tons of quirkly little studios which can tip the scales.
Junior member with a post history that is 100% posts defending Microsoft or attacking Sony. Good job man, fight the good fight.
So true. OG Xbox was a wonderful exclusives machine with some fun quirky games that had a lot of spirit. The 360 mostly dropped those niche exclusives but it was a better 3rd party machine and had a few solid exclusives. The One at this point seems to be neither. Now don't get me wrong there are some cool exclusives coming up, but those are pretty much the only thing I plan to pick up. I just don't see MS investing in their first party like the should and that's a bummer for gamers.
I think you are down playing a lot of the last 2 years of history and the disparity between the systems.
slightly more powerful hardware: The 360 and Ps3 had a 5% pure flop difference in favor of the 360. That made a huge difference all generation. The PS4 is 50% stronger in pure flop numbers over the XB1. The difference is mostly in hamfisted things like resolution now because at the start of a gen the games are last gen ports. Upping the res is the easiest way of using up the extra power. When things get more complex later with better graphic fidelity it'll show up in other ways.
Microsoft made a huge blunder by introducing digital distribution: That came last gen, they wanted to control the resale market which is a different idea. The backlash was for wanting more control but giving nothing back. They made a poor case for it and suffered.
they have to shit on Microsoft at every turn over every business decisions. It's also much easier to ignore any bad thing Sony does: When your business decisions piss people off it's a natural consequence. Objectively Sony has done less to piss people off lately and done a few things over the last few years to earn a bit of good will. MS does fuck up and it goes worse lately for them because they lack consumer good will. Sony fucks up less but when they do they fall back on the good will they did work to obtain.
But shit that was said or done under completely different management nearly a decade ago: Management has changed but their attitude is still full of hubris and condescension which doesn't work out for you if you just blew an entire generation of goodwill and are no longer #1.
MS needs to clean house and drop the attitude. They aren't being unfairly criticized. They are being fairly judged for fucking it all up. They need to earn back goodwill.
DoktorEvil
Banned
This is too articulate and well written for this debate.
*check posts*
How much they pay over at Redmond??
You're distorting the facts here.
"From Wikipedia.
The game sold more than four million copies in the first 24 hours. passing the 14.5 million sales of Halo 3 in less then 8 months.
Who did it before MS?
Didn't Bungie buy their way out, because they didn't want to be turned into Halo factory? Kinda like Naughty Dog left Sony because they were only ever allowed to make Spyro games.
It depends on what you mean by standard, since there was a 360 sku without one and studio's had to pass cert for that unit so they couldn't rely on it being there. So if by standard you mean as something that studios could reliably count on being there then the PS3 did it first. If you mean had a HDD option then the PS2 had that.
I forgot about that. I see what you mean now. I was wrong, the first case was the xb not PS3.
gioGAF
Member
There you have it, MS in a nutshell.
Disliking MS is not the same thing as being a Sony fanboy.
Come on. Microsoft's handling of their first party studios is worth a discussion.
I just wish that the post in the OP was a bit more balanced.
Considering that they didn't continue the practice and made it so developers couldn't use hdd install features in their X360 consoles due to SKU Certs (though a couple late life titles did it) after the OG Xbox I think saying that they standardized it with the OG Xbox is pretty dubious.
Correct. Although the two usually go hand in hand. I should have asked "why are there so many anti-xbox users on gaf"?
But seriously. Did they shit in your wheaties? Is it a European thing? I mean I understand that Europe has hard on for anything PlayStation related.
What did the HDD on the PS3 do that the HDD on the 360 didn't? The only reason games needed to install was that the transfer rate of the BR drive was too slow. And as you say at the end of the life when there were games that needed it, MS let them.
So yeah I'm happy to say that MS brought the standardised HDD, since for all intents and purposes they did.
Have you not been paying attention to gaming for the past five years or something?
GAF has always had a strong Sony following. Even during what we call the dark years of early PS3, there was a strong fan presence. I know it's been frowned upon to suggest that GAF is one think or another in a group, but reading GAF during that time, It seemed that there were more PS3 owners than 360.
I'm sorry is this supposed to be your "counter argument"? If we are going to to dismiss people's posts based on their post history , then the post that OP quoted to start this thread by drek should be subject of the same dismissal based on his post history of shitting on MS and propping up Sony.
Gunstarheroes
Member
Gee, if only that list didn't skip over a number of games that were actually made by MS as first party titles. They may have failed, and the point at the end isn't necessarily invalid, but this is stretching some facts to fit a narrative.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Plenty of studios, both old and new, and plenty of capable partners. Lots of first party games in a wide variety of genres; new IPs, old IPs revived, and their regular flagship franchises; practically all of them games that I want to play. The future is looking great, apart from their Kinect support which has sadly weakened.
krypt0nian
Banned
It's almost as if the brand is damaged goods.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
This was the point I was trying to make earlier. I didn't mean to try and start a list war. Lol.
MS strategy always seemed to be predicated on being the market leader, which even if I don't agree with the methods works a whole lot better when you are indeed the market leader. Sooner rather than later exclusives are going to get too steep to buy up. So there better be a much stronger first party to fall back onto, and I just don't see it.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
I stand corrected, however, the real numbers are even more in Halo 4's favor:
TLOU (according to wikipedia): 7 million
Halo 4 (again, wikipedia): "The game sold more than four million copies in the first 24 hours on sale and is the best selling entry of the series [2], surpassing the 14.5 million sales of Halo 3 in less then 8 months"
So yeah, Halo is really irrelevant. Thank you for helping me understand that!
Only to warriors. I notice certain groups don't like the piece of plastic they love being "challenged". I remember similar vitriol being aimed at the Dreamcast when RE CV was exclusive by "certain groups". It's just console war nonsense.
krypt0nian
Banned
I'd say only to the marketplace. Numbers tell us it's far more than warriors.
There was *A* game that did it that I can remember - Halo 4. Going 7 years on your console with no games really taking advantage of it due to your SKU cert policies is not "standardizing" it, sorry. I just can't agree to that.
So then playstation 3 was "damaged goods" the first few years of last gen and i guess the WiiU should just pack it up and go home.