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Looks like Mac is starting to become a gaming platform with Metal 3.

Oh, I see. Crazy to think that on Windows you can still run stuff from 3.1 era. Though I am not sure if anybody needs it when VirtualBox, Dosbox and other stuff exists.
Deprecating stuff is needed to keep your house clean so Apple's idea of deprecating parts that they don't need going forward is correct and shows that they have a direction to go with their development. That's why Apple is not always breaking compatibility once they release an update or patch out something, because they don't support MacOS 9.2 stuff, or MacOS 10.4 for that part.

But they take the steps 2-3 years before they should. To their credit they usually say it's going to be deprecated in 2 years time (so two OS releases) but it's still stupid as they could release such modules as plugins.

The "no-32 bit" transition fucked a lot of music producers and DAW pipelines who had hundred of 32 bit plugins (some of them have to be repurchased in 64 bit versions, some others simply don't exist). Music producers are huge on the MacOS professional niche, at this point it's them and graphic designers. No one else.

So plenty are stuck on MacOS Mojave (10.14).
At some point, like Rosetta 1, Apple will phase it out of macOS once the native adoption rate is high enough which would eliminate Crossover altogether and just have Parallels be the only way Windows applications could run unless there ever is a version of Boot Camp for Apple Silicon series Macs.
Knowing them, 2 major releases. Big Sur "doesn't count", so we have Monterey and the next.

Then they'll plug the plug, unless they really can't or decide to avoid the outcry from Mac Pro 2019 owners, which I doubt they will.
 
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Deprecating stuff is needed to keep your house clean so Apple's idea of deprecating parts that they don't need going forward is correct and shows that they have a direction to go with their development. That's why Apple is not always breaking compatibility once they release an update or patch out something, because they don't support MacOS 9.2 stuff, or MacOS 10.4 for that part.

But they take the steps 2-3 years before they should. To their credit they usually say it's going to be deprecated in 2 years time (so two OS releases) but it's still stupid as they could release such modules as plugins.

The "no-32 bit" transition fucked a lot of music producers and DAW pipelines who had hundred of 32 bit plugins (some of them have to be repurchased in 64 bit versions, some others simply don't exist). Music producers are huge on the MacOS professional niche, at this point it's them and graphic designers. No one else.

So plenty are stuck on MacOS Mojave (10.14).
The Apple Silicon move is still messing up the Audio and Editing communities because for the application itself to run natively, all the plugins have to be Apple Silicon native too. A lot of developers stopped at just 64 bit or charging for the Silicon upgrades so people have their brand new Macs and running them in Rosetta mode. A lot of After Effects plugins haven't made the move yet and even native apps like Adobe Premiere are missing some specific features (like AAF export) in the native version of the app forcing users to quit out and relaunch in Rosetta.

Once fully native though, the performance is great. I have been messing with DaVinci Resolve on the Studio and it smokes.

Knowing them, 2 major releases. Big Sur "doesn't count", so we have Monterey and the next.

Then they'll plug the plug, unless they really can't or decide to avoid the outcry from Mac Pro 2019 owners, which I doubt they will.

Rosetta 1 got three years of support before removal, but Apple wasn't doing annual releases at the time. I would say the removal of Rosetta 2 will coincide with the end of Intel Mac releases of macOS as a whole. Probably 3-5 years after the last Intel Mac is sold so Apple covers their legal bases with any AppleCare support commitments.
 
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The Apple Silicon move is still messing up the Audio and Editing communities because for the application itself to run natively, all the plugins have to be Apple Silicon native too. A lot of developers stopped at just 64 bit or charging for the Silicon upgrades so people have their brand new Macs and running them in Rosetta mode. A lot of After Effects plugins haven't made the move yet and even native apps like Adobe Premiere are missing some specific features (like AAF export) in the native version of the app forcing users to quit out and relaunch in Rosetta.
Yeah, I've looked at it. I think Apple could have done better, and kept 32 bit support for them as well. At least to get them into ARM platforms painlessly.
Rosetta 1 got three years of support before removal, but Apple wasn't doing annual releases at the time. I would say the removal of Rosetta 2 will coincide with the end of Intel Mac releases of macOS as a whole. Probably 3-5 years after the last Intel Mac is sold so Apple covers their legal bases with any AppleCare support commitments.
They can get away with as little as 3 years of releases because then they can claim security support for 2 more years. Pages, Numbers, Keynote, Garageband and the like still have updates as does Safari, and no dev supports only the last release. Adobe supports at least the last two MacOS releases for instance. But for a Pro machine it's a crazy small lifespan.

The performance is great, but I'm not liking how proprietary everything is and how in control Apple is, hence I opted not to make the switch into M1/M2 platforms.
 
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R O F L ...

a fucking over a year old game is coming to MAC and a 7 year old polished turd

and MAC is a major gaming platform now ..


OH MAN ...
 
R O F L ...

a fucking over a year old game is coming to MAC and a 7 year old polished turd

and MAC is a major gaming platform now ..


OH MAN ...
This is obviously a test. If sales arw good to great I'm sure more will come. Public reception will be the main determining factor.
 
R O F L ...

a fucking over a year old game is coming to MAC and a 7 year old polished turd

and MAC is a major gaming platform now ..


OH MAN ...
Apple's the 3rd biggest in gaming revenue behind Tencent and Sony already, so if they are able to branch it into their other products, anything is possible in the long run.
 
Apple's the 3rd biggest in gaming revenue behind Tencent and Sony already, so if they are able to branch it into their other products, anything is possible in the long run.

Apple's gaming revenue comes from ripping off unsuspecting parents with shit transactions; everyone and the mole on their fucking buttock owns an ipad - iphone..


They don't make fucking shit from pc/Laptop gaming...
 
Apple's gaming revenue comes from ripping off unsuspecting parents with shit transactions; everyone and the mole on their fucking buttock owns an ipad - iphone..


They don't make fucking shit from pc/Laptop gaming...
They don't make "fucking shit from pc/Laptop gaming" YET is the keyword to use. They now have the same chips in their computers as they do in their mobile devices and that can convince a lot more developers to write once and sell many. Will it actually happen, who knows?

You sum it best with your poetic choice of words: "everyone and the mole on their fucking buttock owns an ipad - iphone" that is plenty of potential marketshare because those people and their buttock moles also buy into the Mac ecosystem too after the generally great experience most of them have with those devices not to mention the status symbol they represent for a lot of groups.

PC gaming isn't going anyplace and if there is one thing game publishers like doing, it's finding new people to sell their $60 and $70 games to so why not try to make inroads with the 3rd biggest revenue maker in gaming and THE biggest gaming device manufacturer (more iPhones and Pads in this world than consoles and gaming PCs)
 
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They don't make fucking shit from pc/Laptop gaming...

Buuttt… they do make a shot load from laptop sales.. with apple silicon making every new laptop a powerhouse it won't be long before there is millions of potential customers.

Or not.. 😂
 
After seeing even an M1 Macbook Air with no fan outperform an i9 windows laptop while being cooler,I might have to make the switch.
You obviously drank the coolant and didn't see the reviews. It was your typical apple bs. Had the fanboys talking about the gpu beating a 3090 when it couldn't even beat a 3 generation old nvidia card.
 
Actually... Apple already has PC's doing 7.3 GB/s. PS5 internal SSD sits at 5.5 GB/s.

Thing is Apple won't be user replaceable, what we call SSD has memory chip and controller in every shape (nvme, sata) and platform (pc, console, etc). Apple is doing controller on the SoC/motherboard and in some cases memory chip on the board that is replaceable. But, plot twist, they have to pair it, and they don't give us the tools.

So it's proprietary and not user changeable. You can't buy an Apple Studio Mini Mac and add a bigger disk without going through them, even if you had the parts.

But the speed trumps PS5 already.
Apple basically cheated the benchmarks.


Yes, Apple is nearly as bad as console makers when it comes to hardware. I imagine it's only a matter of time before they find a way to close off the backdoor (terminal). We need to move to more open systems/software, not digital concentration camps. I really hope linux support for gaming grows exponentially in the next few years.
 
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Apple basically cheated the benchmarks.


Yes, Apple is nearly as bad as console makers when it comes to hardware. I imagine it's only a matter of time before they find a way to close off the backdoor (terminal). We need to move to more open systems/software, not digital concentration camps. I really hope linux support for gaming grows exponentially in the next few years.

What's wrong with Windows?
 
Deprecating stuff is needed to keep your house clean so Apple's idea of deprecating parts that they don't need going forward is correct and shows that they have a direction to go with their development.
Apple's way of handling things shows that they are a bunch amateurs compared to the people at Microsoft.
 
What's wrong with Windows?
Spyware, lack of customization (ie. major changes to the GUI each generation with no official way to go back), bloat (not really an issue with good computers though).

Microsoft, as with all major tech corporations cannot be trusted and a viable, free opensource alternative should be established.

Everything is moving to Linux anyway. Hopefully games make that final jump. Hell, even windows can run linux now (WSL2).
 
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After seeing even an M1 Macbook Air with no fan outperform an i9 windows laptop while being cooler,I might have to make the switch.
Whats the point when the software is all proprietary. There is no native games and other software is most likely app store shit. One thing windows (and even linux to an extent ) have over mac is software, and price. Mac was doable when they were x86 as you could install windows and game companies would put mac versions on steam. Now not so much.
 
what's the market share for mac again? 15%?

if Apple isn't actively encouraging ports either through direct financing or through other deals not many will port
 
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$300 to $500 would be an Apple gaming controller only.
nevermind GIF
 
Might be a slight exaggeration on the controller costs, but it really used to be an expensive chore to get a controller for an Apple Device.

For years apple had its own controller protocol and conditions that all games had to comply with. I remember button pressure sensitivity being a part of that. I Think even Sony abandoned that idea.
Now you can just connect your Series X or Dual Sense onto your iphone and play away.
Now they just need to distance themselves from the cesspool that is the mobile app store and allow real games for real gamers onto their real hardware.
None of this Genshin Immortal or Diablo Impact freemium BS.
 
Apple basically cheated the benchmarks.


Yes, Apple is nearly as bad as console makers when it comes to hardware. I imagine it's only a matter of time before they find a way to close off the backdoor (terminal). We need to move to more open systems/software, not digital concentration camps. I really hope linux support for gaming grows exponentially in the next few years.

Interesting.

Marcan usually knows his stuff.

Also, judging the M1 as apples to apples against i9 as was done in this thread is never as linear as that, but it is a powerful chip with an interesting design going forward nonetheless. And the changes it's making in the industry are important, but it's basically a super wide design with as little bottlenecks as possible while i9 mentioned was full of bottlenecks. Intel and AMD are finally doing what's needed to lift those with more cache and more wide designs which as seen in 5800X3D instantly gives a good performance uplift.
 
There are already plenty of great app store (ios) games you can play on your Mac, and the hardware (existing and new) is sexy AF. Playing more contemporary games on your mac would be a bonus!
 
Interesting.

Marcan usually knows his stuff.

Also, judging the M1 as apples to apples against i9 as was done in this thread is never as linear as that, but it is a powerful chip with an interesting design going forward nonetheless. And the changes it's making in the industry are important, but it's basically a super wide design with as little bottlenecks as possible while i9 mentioned was full of bottlenecks. Intel and AMD are finally doing what's needed to lift those with more cache and more wide designs which as seen in 5800X3D instantly gives a good performance uplift.
Bottlenecks always exist, otherwise we would have unlimited computational power. You just have to decide what bottleneck you can live with. For gamers, that is almost always your GPU.
 
Apple basically cheated the benchmarks.


Yes, Apple is nearly as bad as console makers when it comes to hardware. I imagine it's only a matter of time before they find a way to close off the backdoor (terminal). We need to move to more open systems/software, not digital concentration camps. I really hope linux support for gaming grows exponentially in the next few years.


They… optimised things, but that is not a HW issue as Marcan also said, but a FW one. For many cases, this is something safe "enough" to do. Still, if we compared it to Windows boxes or consoles we would want to know what the settings is: for all we know (we do not know) consoles have the same settings disabled.
That was the M1, the I/O number the other posted quoted are from the M1 Pro/Max SoC though.

I find the bandwidth claim more upsetting because it is unclear to consumers what they would get is actually related to storage size: they do not spell the bandwidth per storage option out well.
 
They… optimised things, but that is not a HW issue as Marcan also said, but a FW one. For many cases, this is something safe "enough" to do. Still, if we compared it to Windows boxes or consoles we would want to know what the settings is: for all we know (we do not know) consoles have the same settings disabled.
That was the M1, the I/O number the other posted quoted are from the M1 Pro/Max SoC though.

I find the bandwidth claim more upsetting because it is unclear to consumers what they would get is actually related to storage size: they do not spell the bandwidth per storage option out well.
It would be safe to assume they do the same thing on the entire M1 line.

You can test this on windows (however it's unsigned so I cannot).
 
Not even that would make have one as my primary machine. Currently using a MacBook sent from my employer and I hate it from the beginning, I finally got used to it but the OS is so bare bones compared to Windows I can't even compare them.

It's a good machine for light work stuff tho... I'll stream games on one in a future, but just because it it doesn't depend on the device as much
 
Whats the point when the software is all proprietary. There is no native games and other software is most likely app store shit. One thing windows (and even linux to an extent ) have over mac is software, and price. Mac was doable when they were x86 as you could install windows and game companies would put mac versions on steam. Now not so much.
Sorry I wasn't referring specifically to games. For other uses its seems better especially video editing. I think it can run x86 programs through a compatibility layer,performances takes a hit but its still comparable to an i5/i7.
 
Apple basically cheated the benchmarks.


Yes, Apple is nearly as bad as console makers when it comes to hardware. I imagine it's only a matter of time before they find a way to close off the backdoor (terminal). We need to move to more open systems/software, not digital concentration camps. I really hope linux support for gaming grows exponentially in the next few years.


Linux has way more issues than gaming support.
in order to get more gaming support (including working solutions for anticheat measures that don't insta-ban you as soon as you try playing), Linux fist has to become an actually good OS that people actually wanna use.

and by People I mean normal people and not some nerdy guys that get an erection as soon as they see a command line window.

the splintered nature of Linux with its different Distros and desktop environments that can be mixed and matched, but also all have at least some significant downsides compared to others, while also sometimes not being 100% cross compatible with eachother in terms of software... that is just the biggest issue Linux has.

and because elitism is rampant in the Linux sphere, this splintered landscape will remain. they will never come together to work on a singular ultimate version of Linux with no significant issues for the average user and with extremely high compatibility and easy usability.

imo as long as you have to even once open a command line to do anything on your PC, that a normal user can do easily with simple mouse clicks on a Windows PC, as long as that's the case Linux will remain the niche among niches it is, and honestly IMO that's also a sign of a bad OS in general. we're not living in the 80s anymore... GUIs became the norm for a reason.

and because of all this, Linux will also always remain an afterthought for game devs, as it's even less market share than OSX you're getting with a Linux native version, so why bother?
 
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I literally can run old ass games and still play GTA 3. What are you talking about?
Windows 10 dropped compatibility for older DRM such as Safedisc and Securom, which was present even in Steam versions of these games. Ironically this can be fixed by using a cracked exe.
This was done out of security concern, since these old DRM systems had security flaws in them, Microsoft didn't just decide to break a bunch of games.
My TV can also play games.
Remember when you're Sky Box could play games?
There is a difference between a gaming platform and something you could run games on.
just because it's capable of playing games doesn't mean it's a platform
Beehive Bedlam was the shit, played that all the time on my Pace Sky Digibox. Even brought one of these funky sky gamepad controllers.
sky-gamepad-single.jpg
 
Apple buying a publisher in 3..2…

Hope they get Ubi. I can see how they would look good from the corp suit perspective

… and we actual gamers would loose nothing
 
I thought that their Rosetta emulator supposed to tackle the problem with x86/x64 support?
As already said, that's x64 only, and part of it (that makes it so efficient - no Apple did not magic up some amazing emulator) is hardware based in the SoC.

There's zero chance that they're going to keep that valuable space on the SoC for that for the long run. I reckon by M3 they'll drop it.
 
Linux has way more issues than gaming support.
in order to get more gaming support (including working solutions for anticheat measures that don't insta-ban you as soon as you try playing), Linux fist has to become an actually good OS that people actually wanna use.

and by People I mean normal people and not some nerdy guys that get an erection as soon as they see a command line window.

the splintered nature of Linux with its different Distros and desktop environments that can be mixed and matched, but also all have at least some significant downsides compared to others, while also sometimes not being 100% cross compatible with eachother in terms of software... that is just the biggest issue Linux has.

and because elitism is rampant in the Linux sphere, this splintered landscape will remain. they will never come together to work on a singular ultimate version of Linux with no significant issues for the average user and with extremely high compatibility and easy usability.

imo as long as you have to even once open a command line to do anything on your PC, that a normal user can do easily with simple mouse clicks on a Windows PC, as long as that's the case Linux will remain the niche among niches it is, and honestly IMO that's also a sign of a bad OS in general. we're not living in the 80s anymore... GUIs became the norm for a reason.

and because of all this, Linux will also always remain an afterthought for game devs, as it's even less market share than OSX you're getting with a Linux native version, so why bother?

My friend, there are hundreds of tutorials around on windows CMD for stuff you can only disable via that way. Probably most of Windows users have need to run something in the terminal once or twice.

Let's not talk about Mac, to install brew you need the command line and that is a very widespread tool( about 3 million packages installed using brew in the last 90 days)

So that talk about if you use terminal is a crappy os doesn't fly.
 
As already said, that's x64 only, and part of it (that makes it so efficient - no Apple did not magic up some amazing emulator) is hardware based in the SoC.

There's zero chance that they're going to keep that valuable space on the SoC for that for the long run. I reckon by M3 they'll drop it.
Rosetta 2 is a software level JIT/AOT translation layer. It is a totally optional install if the end user is able to stay legacy x86/x64 free. That won't stop Apple from removing support for it one day, but the technology is not cooked into the SoC.
 
Linux has way more issues than gaming support.
in order to get more gaming support (including working solutions for anticheat measures that don't insta-ban you as soon as you try playing), Linux fist has to become an actually good OS that people actually wanna use.
and by People I mean normal people and not some nerdy guys that get an erection as soon as they see a command line window.
That's ridiculous.
That you honestly think you'd need to use the command line to use modern Linux distros for normal usage or gaming just shows you have little to no idea what you are talking about.
When talking about the more user friendly distros (and there are many), you don't need the terminal at all.
You can use it - and you'll be way faster if you do, once you know how to - but you can stick to clicking around the UI with the mouse if you want the same as on Windows.

Sure, the menus will be different and come in various styles, and that WILL require a few days of getting used to, but expecting different OSs to just be a copy of the objectively bad design that is Windows is pretty insane.
Same is true for MacOS, btw.
And tons of artists gravitate towards Mac - which has a UI and flow HIGHLY similar to many Linux distros, without needing the terminal.

the splintered nature of Linux with its different Distros and desktop environments that can be mixed and matched, but also all have at least some significant downsides compared to others, while also sometimes not being 100% cross compatible with eachother in terms of software... that is just the biggest issue Linux has.

and because elitism is rampant in the Linux sphere, this splintered landscape will remain. they will never come together to work on a singular ultimate version of Linux with no significant issues for the average user and with extremely high compatibility and easy usability.
This is partly true and its fragmentation is widely considered Linux' biggest problem for wider acceptance by practically everyone within the Linux sphere.
But you wouldn't need a singular ultimate version, that's just nonsense - different versions aimed at different audiences is one of Linux' biggest strengths.
However, it would be great if instead of maybe ten big ones, there were only 3-5. Who knows, it might get there at some point.

imo as long as you have to even once open a command line to do anything on your PC, that a normal user can do easily with simple mouse clicks on a Windows PC, as long as that's the case Linux will remain the niche among niches it is, and honestly IMO that's also a sign of a bad OS in general. we're not living in the 80s anymore... GUIs became the norm for a reason.
First of all, mouse clicks actually take way more time to do than doing something via terminal (once you know what you're doing). Why do you think developers gravitate towards this style of usage? It's not out of some weird kind of elitism, but sheer practicality - and that's across all platforms, also pure Windows devs.

Second, please name a single thing that can be done on Windows via mouse clicks only, but not on something like base Ubuntu or PopOS.
I don't think you'll find anything - more likely the other way around, you'll find more things being configurable in Linux distros via mouse only than under Windows (since Windows likes to hide its inner workings from the user) ...

I think you just have no clue what modern Linux distros actually look like, can be used like, and have maybe seen them a decade ago.

and because of all this, Linux will also always remain an afterthought for game devs, as it's even less market share than OSX you're getting with a Linux native version, so why bother?
Easy: Developing your software cross-platform is always a strong improvement to your software's maintainability and quality.
Errors are more easily found, you get more reusable and library-independent code (even within the same platform), you develop less bad coding habits, etc. ... advantages of cross-platform development have been studied many times over and are just undeniable.
Also, about 2% market share of 130 million monthly users is still a shitload of people - given the increasingly low cost of developing for Linux as well as Windows, it just makes sense financially.
The reason it isn't done more often is that many game devs shy away from Linux development because of age-old and untrue assumptions like yours.

That said, as a user, you don't need native support for most games in order to use Linux. Via Wine/Proton, you can run practically anything, anyway (as the Steam Deck shows, for example).
Only a few multiplayer games won't due to their absurd anti-cheats false-flagging Linux users. But since most people prefer single player anyway, that's a non-issue for most gamers.
 
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