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LOST 06.05: "Lighthouse" (Ben has been Claire'd for this week)

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Staccat0 said:
I haven't seen smokey do much lately aside from kill his supposed oppressor and some people who were gonna kill him.

I feel like everyone is taking jacob's alignment for granted. I've only seen evidence of him ruining/ending lives for reasons they haven't explained.
But you're not taking MIB's story for granted? I think you are. I don't see how you buy the idea that he's telling the truth. He fucked over John Locke, he fucked over Claire, he's clearly trying to fuck over Sawyer. I think you're only seeing what you want to see. Obviously there is much more to be revealed about these two than we know now, but it seems to me you're taking MIB for granted just as much as you think people are taking Jacob for granted.

It reminds me of the old days whe people used to always say that ben was a liar, but in reality... he wasn't.
It seems to me that the right music and lighting can convince anyone that a character is good or evil.
I'm sorry but this is just wrong. Ben has been compulsively lying since his introduction on this show. Nice condescension in that last sentence there too, really liking the flavor of the post. Bring some more substance next time though.
 
duckroll said:
If responsibility for death and suffering from incompetence or inaction counts as being a bad guy, then Jack is the #1 villain on Lost. :lol

GAF:

I wish you had believed in me

JL, er, Solo
 
Nameless said:
To be fair, it's a different show. It's almost like saying "Return of the King doesn't have as much soul or heart as Fellowship of The rings does" it's not supposed to. The final act tends to take on a much different tone than the first. We're no longer getting to know these characters, we're dealing with all of the shit they've gone through and continue to go through.

When powering through the series, there was a very natural progression. I don't like to look at as seasons, usually, rather one story.

I find it impossible not to look at LOST, or any show for that matter, by its seasons. I know what you are saying about them trying to tell an overall story, but there is so many unique and compartmentalized things about every season that they become their own entities. There are months and months off between writing the finale for one season and the premiere for another, so thoughts and idead morph quite a bit, not to mention casting and budget changes and the like. LOST has gone several steps beyond that be shifting whole genres throughout the series. If you look at S1 and then S5, they could almost be two different shows, just featuring the same characters. S1 was a mystery/survival/adventure romp, and by this point in time, its morphed into a time travelling, alternate reality, hard sci-fi show.
 
Dead said:
Ceasar WILL return

believe

I for one believe in the RETURN OF THE KING































faraday-703322.jpg
 
MMaRsu said:
That doesn't mean I don't read the threads. Sorry dude if I missed a post O_o
I didnt say you didn't read. Based on your post count I was willing to bet the answer was miasd pages rather than posts. If you read 90% and don't talk much that sucks for us and you.
 
big ander said:
I don't think the 3rd person is Aaron, and it's definitely not Jacob. It's probably some random Egyptian kid who is in charge of the island. Just does whatever the hell he wants on it.

How many blond Egyptians do you know?
 
So what are some real straight up important answers that we have been given so far?

Not for me but I can't think of any and somebody is asking me for them :p.
 
Im rewatching S1, cause I heard 'OMFG S605=S105' ...

And I must say, it is better than I remembered.

Also Flocke's first scene was in S110?
 
"Locke" is such a menace now. I liked him in season 1, then started to like him less in the subsequent seasons, but now that the transformation is complete, I realize the intricate, season by season build up to it is wonderfully done. O Quinn is a hell of an actor. I'd argue that he has the toughest role on the show.
 
MMaRsu said:
Well Jack is too but he's not a bad guy.

There's a difference between making piss poor decisions resulting in casulities and robbing hundreds people of their lives or at the very least a better future all so you can find one person to take your place.

Not saying Jack isn't a douchebag, but he's an endearing douche bag. Jacob on the other hand just comes across like a piece of shit.
 
Nameless said:
There's a difference between making piss poor decisions resulting in casulities and robbing hundreds people of their lives or at the very least a better future all so you can find one person to take your place.

Not saying Jack isn't a douchebag, but he's an endearing douche bag. Jacob on the other hand just comes across like a piece of shit.

Yeah I guess you're right about that ^^.

Also :

2eeh4dl.jpg
 
Solo said:
I find it impossible not to look at LOST, or any show for that matter, by its seasons. I know what you are saying about them trying to tell an overall story, but there is so many unique and compartmentalized things about every season that they become their own entities. There are months and months off between writing the finale for one season and the premiere for another, so thoughts and idead morph quite a bit, not to mention casting and budget changes and the like. LOST has gone several steps beyond that be shifting whole genres throughout the series. If you look at S1 and then S5, they could almost be two different shows, just featuring the same characters. S1 was a mystery/survival/adventure romp, and by this point in time, its morphed into a time travelling, alternate reality, hard sci-fi show.

Over the hiatus I burned through the series twice. Often times, watching the episodes in huge chunks. Individual episodes as well as seasons began to blur. I agree, comparing S1 to S5 is like comparing entirely different shows, but the road between the two extremes flows smoothly and organically. I go back to the Lotr analogy because it fits. Fellowship and ROTK are drastically different films if looked at as seperate entities but they're not supposed, it's all a singular story. The same thing applies to Lost. Sure at the end of the day it's a network tv show and concessions are constantly made because of that, but when you really examine the story, it doesn't feel like things have been forced to get here. As far as the show has come, as many twists as it has taken it still feels like one journey. Compared like to something like Heroes which has been a complete mess.
 
Pretty good theory on the seprate timelines. Like how it matches up with Desmond saving Charlie:

I can understand people having a problem connecting emotionally to the Sideways timeline characters and therefore have a tendency to think of it as "less real". I have a theory that (if it is true) can help explain why the Sideways Jack is just as "real" as the island Jack.

A lot of people seem to have a problem understanding the sideways universe because they think it only diverged from the original one when flight 815 landed in LA, or they think it is a parallel one that never connects to the original. Juliet's cryptic "it worked" gives us a clue to what created the sideways universe. The sideways universe is a divergent reality that was created by Jack and co. successfully preventing "the incident".

My current theory is as follows:

Faraday was right when he says "what happened, happened". There is one timestream that can get split into two realities, but these separate realities always "course correct" back to the main timestream. We saw some examples of this when Desmond kept saving Charlie's life. But Desmond's interference only delayed Charlies death by several days. The timestream only took about a week to course correct.

Now when Faraday came up with his new "variables" theory, he used the metaphor of throwing pebbles into a river. You can cause a small disturbance in the flow of the river, but it quickly returns to normal. This is the metaphor for Desmond's diverting Charlie's death for a few days. Then Faraday said if you could get a big enough boulder you could actually divert the flow of the stream permanently. This was a metaphor for his theory that preventing the incident would mean no "button pushing" etc. and therefore no 815 plane crash.

I think Faraday's reasoning here was all correct, but failed to take into account the paradox of time travel being the mechanism which put them in a place to prevent the Incident. If they prevent the 815 crash, then no one is there to prevent the incident.

So when Juliet set off the bomb (and I believe she did) that energy, plus the energy being released by the drill hole was enough to create a new reality where the incident did not happen, but instead of "diverting" the timestream into the new course, it "split it in two" so now we have two equally valid timestreams running "side by side".

So the sideway timestream and the original timestream are identical up until 1977, then they split and different things start happening in each. This allows plenty of time for Jack to have a teenage son that he didn't have in the original timestream. I think this is why the producers are adamant that the sideways timeline is not a dream or "what-if" story, but is just as real as the original timeline.

Another part of this theory is that both the bomb energy and the "time/electromagnetic" energy under the Swan were used up in creating the Sideways timestream, so there was no immediate devastation on the island. This allows for Ethan, Ben, plus both Others and Dahrma people to leave the Island and become doctors, teachers, etc. (I don't think the bomb sunk the island. I think that something else caused it at least a little bit later, otherwise Ben would not have had time to leave the island).

So the combined energy of the bomb and the time/electromagnetic energy under the island was a big enough "boulder" to create a new timestream, but in a universe where "whatever happened, happened' and there are no paradoxes, the original timeline is preserved because the original circumstances are needed to create the opportunity to set off the bomb.

Now the timestream is still going to course-correct back into one timeline, but it's taking 30+ years rather than the week or so that we saw in Desmond/Charlie's case. I think the two timelines will merge/course correct back into one shortly before the series finale (maybe during the series finale). The interesting thing will be if the charaters who are still alive after the merge will remember both realities or not. (I don't think there will be two Jacks, Sawyers, etc because the course corrections on Charlie's death didn't create multiple Charlies.)

Anyway, this was pretty much the view I've had since watching the season premiere and so far the new revelations have only supported it. I may be entirely wrong, but so far it matches the evidence we've been shown.

Mo here: Interesting theory!! Thanks, Greg.
Posted by: Greg S. | February 25, 2010 at 03:30 PM
 
I remember vividly during S3's early season woes and Heroes' early season success that people were calling Heroes vastly superior :lol :lol
 
soul creator said:
I remember when I first saw this guy I was thinking to myself, "wow, Colin Farrell sure got skinnier"
I remember when I first saw this guy I was thinking to myself, "holy fuck, this is one bad dude"
 
SpeedingUptoStop said:
Pretty good theory on the seprate timelines. Like how it matches up with Desmond saving Charlie:
I thought that's how most of us were basically interpreting this whole thing, including the Desmond/Charlie incidents.
 
Jibril said:
I remember when I first saw this guy I was thinking to myself, "holy fuck, this is one bad dude"

I remember when I first saw this guy I was thinking to myself "holy fuck, I already hate this dude"
 
E's Kristen just posted a scoop she got from Michael Emerson, I'll spoilertag it for the sensitive people (its pretty vague though)..and leave out her stupid hit-grabbing speculation.

"You'll see the biggest Ben episode ever in the next two weeks," says Michael, which first left us in a tizzy of excitement (come on, you know Ben episodes are always the best!). But it's what he tells us next that's cause for concern: "It's a big one, and it may be the last one of the Ben episodes...it's worth watching."

As for the new version of Ben we've yet to get to know, Michael promises that his brief introduction was not smoke and mirrors—this Ben is a great guy!

"There's more of that to come. That's Ben's flash-sideways, and I can't tell you if that's realer than the island existence that we already know of," he explains. "I haven't gotten it figured out yet."

What he has figured out is the way this guy works. "Think of it this way—he has all the same characteristics that Ben has, but they're in different quantities. He has some of the same urges or fantasies, but they're not as powerful with him," Michael tells us. Simply put: "He's more of a regular guy."

Does this regular guy become besties with one wheelchair-bound John Locke (Terry O'Quinn)?

"They have an important relationship," Michael teases with that deliciously devious little grin of his. "Yeah...friends," is all he'll say of their status.

omg cant wait for that episode.
 
20 to 1 Locke gets caught on the school's rock climbing wall, and Ben shows up at the top to help him get his bearings, and just as Locke thinks he's fine, Ben walks away and accidentally trips over the rope causing Locke to jerk around and inadvertently choke himself to death.
 
SpeedingUptoStop said:
Pretty good theory on the seprate timelines. Like how it matches up with Desmond saving Charlie:

I thought that was our running theory already. The rock(bomb) that was thrown in to the middle of river(time) didn't divert it on to a completely new course. All it really did was make the river split in to two haves to go around, only to form back up on the other side.
 
suaveric said:
I thought that was our running theory already. The rock(bomb) that was thrown in to the middle of river(time) didn't really divert it on to a completely new course. All it really did was make the river split in to two haves to go around, only to form back up on the other side.
It basically was, i just never saw it explained as comprehensively. Still can't imagine how they will merge/continue of the same path eventually, we're dealing with different characters now.
 
Costanza said:
E's Kristen just posted a scoop she got from Michael Emerson, I'll spoilertag it for the sensitive people (its pretty vague though)..and leave out her stupid hit-grabbing speculation.

omg cant wait for that episode.

I've been looking forward to that episode ever since I saw the title a month or so back. It will probably offer the biggest hint yet as to what the hell is going on with the Flash Sideways (he's the only character we've seen so far that we know was on the island at the time of The Incident, or at least that's the assumption.)
 
Solo said:
I find it impossible not to look at LOST, or any show for that matter, by its seasons. I know what you are saying about them trying to tell an overall story, but there is so many unique and compartmentalized things about every season that they become their own entities. There are months and months off between writing the finale for one season and the premiere for another, so thoughts and idead morph quite a bit, not to mention casting and budget changes and the like. LOST has gone several steps beyond that be shifting whole genres throughout the series. If you look at S1 and then S5, they could almost be two different shows, just featuring the same characters. S1 was a mystery/survival/adventure romp, and by this point in time, its morphed into a time travelling, alternate reality, hard sci-fi show.

The seasons can be of vastly different qualities, too. With Seasons 1 and 4 of Lost, you have two of the greatest television seasons ever. And with a Season like 2 and a good chunk of 3, something completely unremarkable at best.

Lost is so interconnected in its plotlines and characters that it's impossible to really enjoy or understand the show without starting from the pilot and going forward in order, but its seasons are fairly distinct from each other.
 
Nameless said:
There's a difference between making piss poor decisions resulting in casulities and robbing hundreds people of their lives or at the very least a better future all so you can find one person to take your place.

Not saying Jack isn't a douchebag, but he's an endearing douche bag. Jacob on the other hand just comes across like a piece of shit.

Maybe Jacob is acting for the greater good. Some people die, but a lot more people live because of it!
 
Nameless said:
you don't think the whole
scale
thing could be a clue given what what we saw in The Substitute? Could be a just a metaphor or red herring..could be more.

Think it's just a line he said...don't think it has any real significance. But who knows?
 
So I'm watching "What Kate Did " and her "dad" says he didn't kill wayne cause he doesn't have murder in his heart. Yet he was in the war in Korea, up until 4 months till Kate was born!
 
Panda Bear said:
But you're not taking MIB's story for granted? I think you are. I don't see how you buy the idea that he's telling the truth. He fucked over John Locke, he fucked over Claire, he's clearly trying to fuck over Sawyer. I think you're only seeing what you want to see. Obviously there is much more to be revealed about these two than we know now, but it seems to me you're taking MIB for granted just as much as you think people are taking Jacob for granted.


I'm sorry but this is just wrong. Ben has been compulsively lying since his introduction on this show. Nice condescension in that last sentence there too, really liking the flavor of the post. Bring some more substance next time though.
Dude calm the fuck down. :lol
I've saod a million times that I think they are BOTH shady.
Just because I think people are taking jacob for granted doesn't mean I think Smokey is a good guy. I just think Jacob seems like a fucking dick so far. I'm just going off the info hwe have.

I never said MiB was a nice or good guy. I don't know anything about him. I'm just saying, that he hasn't "clearly" done shit and neither has jacob. The show just suggests one is good and one is evil with the colors of black and white or with scary music.
You say that Locke is clearly trying to fuck over Sawyer. This may be true, but I don't think its clear at all. Weve only seen him give sawyer answers and save his life while they play sinister music in the background. Oh yeah and kill a bunch of characters with guns we know nothing about.
Before that, he killed some people as the monster but thats all wrapped in mystery too. I say wait and see for now. Sorry, thats just how I feel. They both seem like creeps.

As for Ben,
Ben DOES lie, but so does everyone on this island. If nothing else they all withhold important information from eachother. I feel like this is a major theme of the show, not some huge revelation. However, the more I think about it the more I'll admit he is actually a worse liar than the rest.
I may have exagerated about ben, but when something really matters he always keeps his promises. This is something I'm not sure you can say about any other character on the show.
I didn't intend to be condescending. I was just pointing out a tactic that the show has used from day one. I have friends who are rewatching the show from the start now and its funny how many assumptions we made about things on the show based on so litle info.

EDIT:
From Lostpedia
Ben is a compulsive liar, but any time he gives "his word", he holds to it, no matter what.
I guess this is what I meant. I could have phrased it better, but either way Its nothing to get offended about. Just some lost talk baby:D
 
Just watched the Sundown promo

Damn, what the hell is going on with Sayid's accent. Is it intentional or has Andrews completely forgotten how he's sounded for the last 5 seasons?
 
Dead said:
Just watched the Sundown promo

Damn, what the hell is going on with Sayid's accent. Is it intentional or has Andrews completely forgotten how he's sounded for the last 5 seasons?

:lol
YES! It's weird, he does sound different since waking up from the DEAD.
 
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