Sleeping Lesson
Member
Because they're bad people!
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Lots of new Valve/SteamVR "Knuckles" Controller info (separate finger tracking!)
- Thread starter Durante
- Start date
Because they're bad people!
I don't get it either.
I've played 100s of hours of VR games, and I've never used (or wanted) analog movement in any of those.
They work quite well on the touch for a variety of things, including artificial locomotion.
I definitely prefer Serious Sam VR with analog sticks. The actual analog intensity isn't terribly important, though.
let me pop out the pads and swap them lol, anything
To be honest, though, one of my major beefs with using the Vive or Steam controllers to simulate analog sticks or d-pads is the sheer size. There's a chance that these smaller-looking pads will work significantly better here.
When I place my thumb onto the Vive pad, I have a hard time knowing exactly where it is without looking at it or taking the time to feel out the edges. This isn't the case at all with an analog stick.
let me pop out the pads and swap them lol, anything
To be honest, though, one of my major beefs with using the Vive or Steam controllers to simulate analog sticks or d-pads is the sheer size. There's a chance that these smaller-looking pads will work significantly better here.
When I place my thumb onto the Vive pad, I have a hard time knowing exactly where it is without looking at it or taking the time to feel out the edges. This isn't the case at all with an analog stick.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
The future is here.
Bravo!
Random Human
They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
.
Artifical locomotion is basically the only thing they work better for than a touchpad though.
And I don't want artificial locomotion.
That's one thing I forgot to mention actually -- looking at the gifs, either the guy in them has huge hands or those pads are significantly smaller than the one on the current Vive controllers.
I was hoping for eye tracking, among other things.
I guess that's still ways off.
Also, if i buy a Vive headset, the two (old) controllers are included, so i hope they'll give me an option to just have the new ones.
Oh yeah, I guess that would work. I had been thinking of strapping the trackers on shoes to get the toe and heel position. Foot tracking would be better for something like DDR VR or kicking a ball, but having the shin position (heel-knee) would work better for games where you want to render the legs instead of having disembodied feet stomping around, like in a dancing rhythm game or martial arts.
Shin tracking in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldQDa-IMo7I
GoldenCrow
Member
I made a similar post about this in the PSVR thread but if companies are truly interested in VR they need to develop controllers that are designed specifically for VR. Motion controllers as originally intended don't make a good VR controller even though they are a good starting point as they highlight what is needed and data can be gathered from practical application. Mimicking things like grip, gestures, and using digits to do one thing whilst others do another is all important that most controllers for VR don't do this.
Valve, Facebook and Sony have all been researching many different applications as you can see by looking up their patents and released images of prototypes. Even though this is one of the best concepts I still think the "knuckles" could be improved upon to widen the potential usage of the controller for more diverse VR applications such as those that use a third person perspective or place you in a cockpit.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Honestly, as someone who does like artificial locomotion, I'd like the option for an analog stick as well. Ideally we could have both like the concept posted a little while back. The trackpad (or at least the current one) feels too awkward as a joystick replacement. I feel the same way about the Steam controller and I assume Valve did too or else they wouldn't have added the analog stick after the prototype.
nycgamer4ever
Member
Does no one own a rift and touch? The touch does this, although this looks like it improves on it.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
This is a significant improvement. Being able to completely let go of the controller will really add a lot as far as object interaction in games.
Hey Durante, thanks for the thread. These controllers look amazing!
On a side note, I'm curious as to what your preferred movement scheme in VR is these days (and perhaps your ideal scheme). Personally, I really love how they do movement in Onward.
Yeah, I think the combination of more natural hand tracking provided by these with facial (or even just eye) tracking will make for really awesome VR interaction.
One thing that continuously surprises me in coop games is just how much more expressive than normal online interaction the current "primitive" VR with head and hand tracking already is.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Yep. It's remarkable how distinct people are with just head and rudimentary hand tracking. I can recognize the body language of someone I know, for example.
My preferred is still the same as it was shortly after Vive launch: point-to-teleport for slower-paced games or when it is built into the game from the ground up as a mechanic, controller-relative short distance teleport in more traditional action games.
(Of course, this is assuming locomotion larger than the tracked space is required).
A football field with redirected walking
More seriously, I don't think we have anything available right now that I'd describe as an "ideal" locomotion solution for all use cases.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Valve you brilliant bastards
Business
Member
That's so true. It's amazing how much you can tell about the body language of people in Rec Room by just tracking head and hands on a very basic avatar.
Regarding analog stick on the controller put me on the no thanks camp, I don't like artificial locomotion.
This is sick, but I worry about backwards compatibility. Lots of games use avatars that are based off the current model.
The only time I can think of wanting one was for analog driving in the VR GTAV mod.
The only time I can think of wanting one was for analog driving in the VR GTAV mod.
Zalusithix
Member
Valve has had their hands in designing every aspect of VR.
One of the first HMD prototypes.
With the visual markers for outside-in tracking.
Modifying the prototype for lighthouse based inside-out tracking.
Granted these things weren't supposed to ever be consumer products, but Valve has absolutely been designing custom headsets from the get go to get a grasp for what worked and what didn't for VR. There wasn't any other option really; Valve was one of the pioneers in the field, if not the pioneer of modern VR.
Edit: Somewhat unrelated to headsets in particular, but Valve is also one of the coolest companies for how open they are with their past prototypes. I mean, take a look at what this lucky bastard got for free.
😆
GoldenCrow
Member
Analogue sticks don't need to be used for artificial locomotion there are many uses additional analogue sticks can provide such as manipulating objects whilst you are holding another or controlling a character whilst you interact with the environment. Plus being able to give the option of artificial locomotion to those who enjoy it is a positive.
Zalusithix
Member
The concave nature has existed since the prototypes first made a public appearance. While I obviously haven't used one personally, I can see it having advantages over the current flat pad when it comes to emulating analog sticks without losing the flexible nature for the other uses. On the current Vive pads you can't really tell where your finger is by feel unless you're at the very edge. This makes emulated analog control less than ideal; finger position ends up being a finger-eye feedback loop where fine control requires visual feedback. With a concave pad, the contact angle with the skin will tell you what your relative position on the pad is without needing to be at the very edge. This way it's more like an analog stick where you know your range and position in it by feel without needing visual feedback. Finer, faster, and more confident analog emulation should be a boon while retaining the flexibility of the pad.
If you want to crudely emulate this sort of passive haptic mechanism, you can use a large tablespoon. It'll be much easier to tell where your thumb is in the spoon than on the Vive pad.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
We know, but this is an improvement over the Oculus Touch. Competition like this is what drives VR forward.
It has been fascinating seeing Valve's iterative process throughout their VR developments, in addition to the Steam controller.
The "Knuckles" controller looks exactly like what someone would design after a year of real-world VR applications experience(intuitive grab and release; a smaller body to prevent controller collision), and with the aim of furthering hand presence.
I'm really looking forward to this.
I second the "no analog sticks, please" motion.
The "Knuckles" controller looks exactly like what someone would design after a year of real-world VR applications experience(intuitive grab and release; a smaller body to prevent controller collision), and with the aim of furthering hand presence.
I'm really looking forward to this.
I second the "no analog sticks, please" motion.
Random Human
They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
.
Auto-Reply
Member
Same, very interesting concept, I will buy 2 (obviously lol)
CrunchyFrog
Member
are the fingers actually tracked on a continuum, or is it just a binary gripping/not gripping switch?
Abilidebob
Member
That's honestly pretty cool, didn't knew that.
Apparently analog, going by other posts. I'd love to see video of it in action.
UpUpDownDown
Member
Looks neat.
Love seeing all the crazy solutions for vr control input. They require a complete reimagining of nearly every standard convention.
Really is a new age.
Love seeing all the crazy solutions for vr control input. They require a complete reimagining of nearly every standard convention.
Really is a new age.
CrunchyFrog
Member
curious mainly because IIRC Oculus touch has only maybe 2-3 points of resolution, and this appears to be using a very different tracking technique.
Veritigo_X
Member
Here's a video of it in action from Dev Days back in October: https://twitter.com/FoxBuchele/status/786349026912317441
JigglesBunny
Banned
This looks like the best VR controller yet though VIVE's method has always intrigued me too. Speaking of, I desperately need to pick up a VIVE...
SmoothRunningGun
Member
FINALLY IN VR!
First thing I thought. Cool stuff though.
It's an analog input for each individual finger according to the documentation. The "quality" of those inputs is of course not something you can glean from the docs
LightningXCE
Member
...so I know this guy, and he's totally deserving of this. <3
Wowfunhappy
Member
I want an joystick precise because a lot of games are starting to use joystick-like movement. I find dash teleportation (and pure roomscale) much more immersive, but the market at large appears to disagree with me, so I'd like a controller that accounts for that.
It doesn't need to be in the primary thumb-rest position, but I'd like it to be available SOMEWHERE.
It doesn't need to be in the primary thumb-rest position, but I'd like it to be available SOMEWHERE.