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LTTP: Baten Kaitos Origins
- Thread starter Fou-Lu
- Start date
LordBaztion
Member
The combat system is like a mile of improvement from the first one. My only complaint is that you can't watch the combat, your eyes has to be over your hand at every moment.
More or less yes to both. BK has an interesting, but much slower, combat system that has a lot of depth, one some people still prefer, and is certainly fun, but it's a bit rough for some. Especially if you play BKO first as it is just a really fantastic evolution of the card battle system into something really fast and dynamic. So it's a bit jarring to go back. That said the original has got a great cast of characters and fantastic story, but the VA is rather uneven and poorly mixed. It didn't bother me, but a lot of people really dislike it.
It's still a great game and one that you should play regardless. But if you want you can play Origins first, and only really, and you won't find yourself lost or confused for the most part. There are lots of direct references and cameos from the original game, but few of the references are so obscure that you'll feel lost. It does a great job of making connections and foreshadowing while still providing a strong standalone experience. There's only a few instances of showing character from the original game in BKO that will kind of feel odd, but otherwise everything generally has a strong purpose in the story even if its a reference.
But again, if you can play BK Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean as playing both greatly enhances both. You wont feel lost, but you'll definitely only get half the story and the experience.
Thank you for the input. I'll try to start with EWatLO first and if the weaker aspects bother me too much, I'll jump straight to Origins.
GKSilKamina
Member
One of my all-time favorite RPGs. I liked the first Baten Kaitos, but I was stunned how BKO managed to fix every grievance I had with it. Such as:
- Questionable voice acting
- The weird audio filter/poor mixing for said voice acting
- A story that was largely run-of-the-mill outside of the world-building and big plot twists
- Slow-paced battle system
- Mayfee
For me the only thing that's superior in the first Baten Kaitos is the Chaotic Dance song. Sakuraba really dropped the ball with Chaotic Dance 2 for BKO.
- Questionable voice acting
- The weird audio filter/poor mixing for said voice acting
- A story that was largely run-of-the-mill outside of the world-building and big plot twists
- Slow-paced battle system
- Mayfee
For me the only thing that's superior in the first Baten Kaitos is the Chaotic Dance song. Sakuraba really dropped the ball with Chaotic Dance 2 for BKO.
Koh Kojima, scenario writer, main planer and quest planning director for Origins, was (development) director for Xenoblade 1 and X, likely 2 as well at this rate.
Lunarwhale
Member
I've been meaning to give Baten Kaitos Origins another go. I played both of the games when I was younger and enjoyed them a lot, but never finished either. The original doesn't seem like it would hold up (my memories of it are like... 90% frustration), but Origins had a more engaging battle system and didn't have that ridiculous tin can voice acting. Loved the setting of these games.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Chaotic Dance 2 was actually changed for the localisation. The lyrics "praise the lord...it isn't over yet" appeared in the Japanese version and were changed to something along the lines of "don't give up...feel your body".
When I saw that last trailer for XBC2 the BK influence was real. I mean the game is set across a bunch of floating islands nations in the sky above a giant cloud sea. C'mon son.
Ohh and make sure you put the audio for EWAtLO on Surround regardless of your setup. Otherwise the VO is going to sound like it was recorded inside a soup can.
Yeah there's some overlap, Kojima being the biggest one, but are there many others?
Takahashi and his wife weren't involved in the BK IP for example.
@Enduin : There are similarities, but that specific setting is something we've seen in others works as well, Skies of Arcadia an Skyward Sword comes to mind for example
I guess Monolith helped on Skyward Sword
if you or anyone here are going for the complete Sedna sidequest, be aware there is one missable card due to a bug.
minor area spoilers (it was long ago so sorry for the vague descriptions)
minor area spoilers (it was long ago so sorry for the vague descriptions)
(when you are in the desert area, and you go to a lava cave to the right, you have to fight a regular monster that is found to the left area of the cave and you have to get it the first time you get there, if you continue the story and return after a certain point, which I don't know when that is, the monster will appear but never drop the card)
Aside him and Honne I count 20 names that worked on BK and/or BKO and reappeared in XB and/or XBX, covering all areas Monolith Soft managed for the BK games (that is planning, graphics, animation, visual effects, not few in lead positions).
Obviously the most influential jobs (art direction by Honne, scenarios by Kato/Kojima, battles by tri-Crescendo) are done by different people in the Xenoblade games.
I find (what I assume are) the ancient past moments much more compelling than the modern day events. Seph and his buddies have great weird designs, the world is a crazy place, and this fucker Wiseman (Xenogears reference?). I really hope Monolith Soft's next game that we have seen fantasy style design for still has the crazy environments they are known for. I love how just... weird things are in Baten Kaitos.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Most people recommend stocking up on some apple magnus essence that increases party HP. While it was a decade ago when I last fought that boss I seem to recall (vague strategy thoughts)
manging the adds to be pretty important and some EX combos had splash damage or were AoE which helped in this.
The new segmented speedrun Exchord made actually manages to kill it in one combo (but for a first time player I would not recreate that as that was insanely planned and calculated) via a strategy of
putting them all to sleep with the matress card (grabbing two Billowsmoke essence to improve chance of sleep from 60% to 70%), yelling to build up MP, buffing Guilo with ice-brewed tea (increases Ice element offense by 100% and can be stacked twice but only lasts for two actions so no self buffing and I believe skipping turn counts as an action) and then Guilo unleashes an EX combo (Icefan, Silgil Cry and IIRC Empyreal Wildfire). Of course a very small deck is used to maximise chance of having all that on hand
I don't have much to add here except that I played BKO for the first time last year and I think it's an absolutely amazing game.
I played the original shortly afterward and while it was kinda nice to get more of the story, nothing about it comes close to matching up. (I also had to turn off the voices)
I played the original shortly afterward and while it was kinda nice to get more of the story, nothing about it comes close to matching up. (I also had to turn off the voices)
Use a Freeloader boot disc, there are loads on Ebay.
tiebreaker
Member
Do you need to play the first game first?
So far it gives me a lot of nice little nods to have played the first game, but also feels a bit like it deserved a better sequel.
Yes. Origins is all about subverting your BK1's expectations.
It's not like BK1 is bad, anyway.
It works pretty well on Dolphin.
"Who said you could help?"
Guillo is amazing.
Are they just going to skip the N64 then?
I also waited for european localization back then and finally ended up buying a US copy + freeloader, it also ended up being cheaper than buying a euopean copy of a new game Day 1.
Ivellios
Member
I honestly dont remember its name, but it was brutal, i remember it was weak to dark attacks though.
Phazon_Chaos
Neo Member
I will never miss the opportunity to pop in and shower love on this game. Easily in my top 5 favourite games. I replayed it a couple years ago and wow does it ever hold up. Fun fact: Sagi's voice actor was actually only 16 when the game was coming out, and yet did so much better of a job than any of the first game's VAs.
It's a bit goofy and rather telegraphed leading up to it, but it's still great. The game does such a good job subverting the first game's plot and it's generally not super annoying with it. Shit is just different or there. They don't annoyingly bash it over your head acting all smug and smart about it.
whyamihere
Banned
And now finding out you (the person playing the game) IS Malpercio. I love that it played with your expectations of guardian spirits from the first game, so you never even questioned it. I also love that they didn't dwell for a moment on Milly being a 'traitor' once they come to free Sagi after his brief bout as an Afterling, when the first game leads you to think a betrayal should be the big twist. Best prequel ever.
Ultimadrago
Member
One of the few times a prequel has blown its predecessor out of the water. I played Eternal Wings first (and disliked-to-hated it) and would come to Origins years later. The latter ended up being one of the Gamecube's best RPG titles.
whyamihere
Banned
It's one of the best uses of a prequel I've seen in a game. It's sooooooo good. Fucks with all of your expectations and retroactively makes BK1 so much better.
Dark Cloud
Member
I never played this game. 
I'm mad at myself for not knowing about these games at the time.
I'm mad at myself for not knowing about these games at the time.
And you still haven't seen the best part!
The Malpercio bit was used pretty cleverly, but it used details from the first game so I don't think many noticed unless they read an article about it (which I did later on, and blew my mind once again)
So like... Am I ever really going to find out what the hell Wiseman was? I just went back in time and kicked him and his Black Dragon's asses, but I feel like I still know very little about him and his rise to power. I imagine it must be canon that Sagi went back in time and defeated him, else he would have still been around in the modern era.
I just finished the game and I loved every moment of it. Though Guillo's death was quite contrived. I do still have a lot of questions. How did Geldoblame become who he is in the first game, I guess he went mad from Verus's treachery? It did seem that they had some kind of romantic relationship. I still have no idea who Wiseman or the Dark Brethren are. What happened to Hassaleh by the time of the first game? It feels like you kind of set the spirits of Malpercio free in Origins, but then Malpercio is in the first game anyway? There are also just a lot of characters that have disappeared without a trace by the time of the first game. It's still an amazing prequel that makes you rethink everything the first game offered, but there were definitely some disconnects, unless I just missed things, which is entirely possible.
Thinking about it more, I think Melodia was probably the child of Sagi and Milly, but that baby in the end was just Kalas after being created. Which would make Melodia the grandchild of Verus and Baelheit. No wonder she had issues.
Thinking about it more, I think Melodia was probably the child of Sagi and Milly, but that baby in the end was just Kalas after being created. Which would make Melodia the grandchild of Verus and Baelheit. No wonder she had issues.
one thing I know is, you are meant to play the game through several times to get to a decent level to be able to battle against wiseman (and then another super hard machine, the hardest enemy in the game) there you learn Questor verus was a just a puppet being used by wiseman
and yeah Geldoblame and Verus were romantically involved
I did defeat Wiseman the two times. Once in the past and once when he took over Verus as the final boss battle. Which was really cool. I did not take on the three Machina though, I forgot I could refight those.
I just wish I knew more about the world of Baten Kaitos, there are a lot of mysteries left. I would love to see a new game that took place in the Age of the Ocean.
I just wish I knew more about the world of Baten Kaitos, there are a lot of mysteries left. I would love to see a new game that took place in the Age of the Ocean.