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[Raiden]

One of the few shows i will rewatch eventually after some years have passed.

I have never ever rewatched a series except for Battlestar Galactica which was sort of my first series i ever watched to completion.

On the list:

The Sopranos
Breaking Bad
Twin Peaks

and Mad Men when its finished.

 

[Philia]

I hated Skylar too. Until I found out what Walt did to

Spoiler

Brock

, my opinion of him changed immediately. Yeah there's worst shit he've done but the fucking atrocity and the lengths and especially AFTER

Spoiler

lying to Jesse

; holy shit mode. It made me think twice about all the shit that he's saying.

Then I can forgive Skylar for the way she was but yeah Walt was worse.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I hated Marie from early on, perhaps that gave me some sympathy for Skyler. I can imagine what those two growing up together was like.

 

[Raiden]

I hated Skylar too. Until I found out what Walt did to

Spoiler

Brock

, my opinion of him changed immediately. Yeah there's worst shit he've done but the fucking atrocity and the lengths and especially AFTER

Spoiler

lying to Jesse

; holy shit mode. It made me think twice about all the shit that he's saying.

Then I can forgive Skylar for the way she was but yeah Walt was worse.

Skylar is the most "real" character in that show. Most people would be more understanding when faced with a real life situation like the show.

Never had an problems with Skylar. But then again i was Team Walt till the end so ..yeah.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I can't even imagine what Jesse's psychological state was like at the end of the show. Poor guy. I had to stop my binge watch of the show for a day or two after the part where Todd just executes Andrea in front of him. That was rough.

Dude went through hell. I can only imagine what his psychological state was after the finale. He was already losing it prior to

Spoiler

living in a hole, being told by Walt that he let his previous gf died as he watched and then watching his current gf get shot in the head. I mean....

fuck, that's gotta be one of the most tortured characters ever.

 

[Philia]

Dude went through hell. I can only imagine what his psychological state was after the finale. He was already losing it prior to

Spoiler

living in a hole, being told by Walt that he let his previous gf died as he watched and then watching his current gf get shot in the head. I mean....

fuck, that's gotta be one of the most tortured characters ever.

Not only that, Jesse the character was supposed to be written off the show at end of Season 1 I think. So Jesse's plight really adds a whole new level of the character getting his shit pushed in. I cannot believe how far he has gotten from the very first season. The guy is a great actor, I'll be looking forward to his stuff.

 

[Thursday War]

skyler is a angel she tried to save this family

that's enough blame

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Skyler should have gone running to the police/Hank the moment she found out Walt's true nature. She was cowardly and got greedy once the money started rolling in no matter how high of a horse she put herself on.

 

[Dirtbag]

What I loved about the show is I had love/hates with every single character on the show.
Every character was so human and complex and had realistic progressions / regressions.

I hated Hank at the start of the show, loved him by the end.
Same with Jesse.
Opposite with Walt. Went from love to hate.
Same with Saul Goodman, loved him at first.. But he just felt soo slimey as things got worse and worse.

Skyler and Marie both had their moments. But they were my least favorite, though important to the narrative.

I've never had a show just completely wrap me up like that before.
It was the perfect show for me. Great writing, scoring, acting, directing.... and most importantly didn't over-stay it's welcome. Every season had a purpose.

 

[Frost_Ace]

Mariiiiieee!

Come on people. What's there not to love about Marie?

dat satisfied face.

 

[Toa TAK]

Skylar is the most "real" character in that show. Most people would be more understanding when faced with a real life situation like the show.

Never had an problems with Skylar. But then again i was Team Walt till the end so ..yeah.

Finally, a brother who understands.

dat satisfied face.

He's just trying to process how incredibly lucky is he.

Spoiler

I think.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

dat satisfied face.

She's really adorable (and hot... and crazy. good mix).
I hope my future wife is as unflinchingly devoted

 

[Frost_Ace]

She's really adorable (and hot... and crazy. good mix).
I hope my future wife is as unflinchingly devoted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56qCg65a52A

Spoiler

sugartits!

 

[ivysaur12]

I don't know if it's worthwhile to try to paint any of these characters with broad strokes on their morality. That's partly what makes the show so compelling. But it feels reductive to say "yeah but she's a bitch lol" when her arc is far more complicated than that. Everyone's is. That's why the show is so great.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

What I loved about the show is I had love/hates with every single character on the show.
Every character was so human and complex and had realistic progressions / regressions.

I hated Hank at the start of the show, loved him by the end.
Same with Jesse.
Opposite with Walt. Went from love to hate.
Same with Saul Goodman, loved him at first.. But he just felt soo slimey as things got worse and worse.

Skyler and Marie both had their moments. But they were my least favorite, though important to the narrative.

I've never had a show just completely wrap me up like that before.
It was the perfect show for me. Great writing, scoring, acting, directing.... and most importantly didn't over-stay it's welcome. Every season had a purpose.

Great way to sum it up. Even Marie, who I started out hating, I really cared about in S5.

I went from hating Hank, to loving/admiring him, to thinking he was an idiot (he really should have stopped).

By the end, my feelings for just about everyone were mixed and complex.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Not only that, Jesse the character was supposed to be written off the show at end of Season 1 I think. So Jesse's plight really adds a whole new level of the character getting his shit pushed in. I cannot believe how far he has gotten from the very first season. The guy is a great actor, I'll be looking forward to his stuff.

The acting in the show was great all around and I'm glad they kept Jesse.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

I've never understood why people get mad about Skyler being a HUGE BITCH or whatever when she's

1.

Spoiler

completely right in her suspicions

2.

Spoiler

completely right in her fears

3.

Spoiler

completely right to leave Walt

4.

Spoiler

completely right to get cold feet about buying into Walt's bullshit

Like yeah, she's shrill and paranoid, but that's kinda small potatoes compared to every other character on the show.

She never treated Walt as an equal in their relationship before Heisenberg. Frankly, I believe she's at least partly responsible for the path he decided to take: he was ready to accept death. She was the one who pushed him into getting treatment in the first place. Once she'd done that, she insisted on treatment from doctors that were not covered by his insurance. She made these decisions for him and nagged him into submission at every turn.

He took the Heisenberg persona on and ran with it but Heisenberg would have never existed if Walter White had simply been allowed to die on his own terms. One could argue that Heisenberg may not have ever existed if Walt had been treated as an equal in their relationship. Those feelings of inadequacy and helplessness are part of what made the pendulum shift to Heisenberg so extreme and satisfying to watch.

 

[Frost_Ace]

But what would you do if your partner had cancer and decided not to fight? Wouldn't you try to convince him to get treatment? Skyler was disposed to live in poverty to give Walt a chance, she even got her old job back (while pregnant!) to help financially. Yes she was kinda controlling but that's because Walt is a big baby, but she really did love her husband (until she found out he was a murderer lol).

 

[SuperAndroid17]

I feel like this is relevant because of things.

 

[Prologue]

Ha ha, wow.

Jane was not only black mailing Walt, she was also an addict and spiraling out of control. She could not be trusted and was a liability. Thats why I don't blame him for just standing there and not saving her. I didn't like what Jesse did because he knew she was almost two years sober but decided to bring her down to his level anyway.

 

[Nameless]

That's dramatic bloviation that completely discounts the default danger he puts everyone in his life in just by being a meth cook. Look at that "I, I, I"- no mention of anyone else. That's why he's a douche! He had no concept of what he was actually involved in...a nerdy science teacher who got by on luck, but had enough successes on his own to fool himself into thinking he had control. And if you actually keep up with cartel type stories, the tension in the show regarding his family's safety was heightened pretty much from the start.

I disagree with a lot of this. Walt spends 1/3 of Season 3 rejecting Jesse, Saul, and Gus' pleas for him to retrurn to the business because he's fully aware of the risks involved and how lucky he was to escape the ordeals with Tuco and Krazy 8 relatively unscathed. Gus eventually reels him in by playing to his deepest and most gnawing insecurity( A Man Provides), but even then notice how he grants Skyler the divorce right after, a blatant attempt to insulate her from path he'd chosen.

That quote is open acknowledgement by Walt that he had chosen wrong. He accepted the fact that his day of reckoning had arrived, that the chickens had come home to roost, that it was time to pay the piper or whatever ominous euphemism you want to use. Defeat was a certainy, but some how, some way, he clawed himself from the clutches of imminent doom and won. This was the final step in a naive, bumbling, dweeb's transformation into a measured, methodical, criminal, spilling over with confidence & hubris.

 

[Spinluck]

man, i never had a problem with skylar.

i felt like that's how most people would react if they were married to a psychopath, especially one as manipulative and smart as walt.

dude turned the entire family against her at one point, lol. even after she didn't snitch on his law breaking ass.

 

[Vyer]

I'm not sure why it remained through the course of the show (as Walt sunk lower and lower), but I always thought some people's initial dislike of Sky was because the show started off painting her in an unsympathetic light.

The birthday handjob while browsing eBay is one of the most emasculating things I've ever seen happen to a character on tv.

 

[Sickboy007]

I miss BB so much.

 

[Frost_Ace]

I'm not sure why it remained through the course of the show (as Walt sunk lower and lower), but I always thought some people's initial dislike of Sky was because the show started off painting her in an unsympathetic light.

The birthday handjob while browsing eBay is one of the most emasculating things I've ever seen happen to a character on tv.

those people should watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv0ptGi5h1c

 

[the1whoknocks]

I always thought Skylar was almost as responsible as for what happened to her and her kids in the end as Walt was. Even ignoring everything else, all she had to do was let Walt turn himself in after he buried his money. He was ready to end it all, but all Skyler can think about is not confessing to Jr and trying to keep all that money.

 

[KmA]

It seems strange how lightly people make death sound when discussing TV shows.

 

[Philia]

She never treated Walt as an equal in their relationship before Heisenberg. Frankly, I believe she's at least partly responsible for the path he decided to take: he was ready to accept death. She was the one who pushed him into getting treatment in the first place. Once she'd done that, she insisted on treatment from doctors that were not covered by his insurance. She made these decisions for him and nagged him into submission at every turn.

He took the Heisenberg persona on and ran with it but Heisenberg would have never existed if Walter White had simply been allowed to die on his own terms. One could argue that Heisenberg may not have ever existed if Walt had been treated as an equal in their relationship. Those feelings of inadequacy and helplessness are part of what made the pendulum shift to Heisenberg so extreme and satisfying to watch.

That's a good take on that. He was also massively jealous of his super rich peers and angry at his inadequate decisions he had made (selling his stock for rent when he was younger). But yeah there was a lot of factors that made Walt take a good hard look at his life right then and there and realize he got nothing to lose.

He never REALLY did cared about his family or his dignity. That went out the damn window.

 

[Timedog]

The irrational hate toward Skyler says a lot about the person complaining. While she doesn't make the best decisions throughout the show, everything is at least plausible for someone in her position.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.

 

[Mononoke]

Meh I disagree.

Spoiler

The finale was okay, not great. Walt got too much of his own way in the finale. After all the shit he did, he gets his "happy ending" so to speak. It's been said in the past but I think that Walt trying and failing to kill the neo-Nazis would have been a better ending.

And that's perfectly fine.

Spoiler

Why does the bad guy need to always be punished? Why can't the bad guy sometimes get away, or gets what he wants. I don't really understand why he needed to be punished.

I thought the ending worked, because Walt had to fully embrace who he always was. Without that element in the finale, I wouldn't have liked it as much as I did. Walt stopping the bullshit and making excuses, and accepting he's a piece of shit, is what sold me on this ending. Not only that, but Walt finally came to terms that the entire thing was a ruse. It was never about family. It was never about anything other then himself.

So why is it bad that someone that is like that, gets to go out on their own terms. Isn't' that kind of the tragedy of good vs bad? Also the show made it clear throughout, that Walt was a mastermind of pulling things off, when his back was against the wall (usually it was a choice of doing the right thing but getting caught, or doing the wrong thing and continuing his lifestyle). In the end, Walt is liberated by that, and doesn't need to choose. He knows exactly what he is, and what he's willing to do without caring about the consequences. Because of this, again, I was totally okay with Walt pulling off taking out all his enemies.

 

[Frost_Ace]

The ending is not that simple, let's just say the most important part of it is the prayer in the cold open and its meaning.

 

[CharminUltra]

LTTP threads for the GOAT always make me smile.

 

[Mononoke]

The ending is not that simple, let's just say the most important part of it is the prayer in the cold open and its meaning.

Yeah of course, because

Spoiler

Walt really froze to death in his car, and it was all a final dream where he died and got everything he wanted.

 

[Phatosaurus]

I finished up watching the series earlier this week. It was just so fucking good throughout.

I started watching it last year and got to S2E11 and kinda forgot about the show. I started watching it again about 2 weeks ago in 5-8 episode binges. Needless to say I was firmly glued to the screen (based Netflix).

Season one was good, two was just as good, but it wasn't until season 3 that the show really went up a notch. The only low point being S3E10 (I found that episode particularly boring).

Season 4 was even better still, but the turning point for me was S4E11 (Crawl Space). That's where the ride really begins. That where I think Walt completely loses himself to his own ego and the ride doesn't stop until S5E14 (Ozymandias).

I think after that episode, after Hank's death and after the Aryan's take Walt's money, Walt slowly comes to his senses again. He kinda got taken down a notch in away.
I S5E16 (Felina) is Walt's attempt at redeeming himself (for himself). He finally comes to terms with his actions and admits that he did it because he liked it, whereas all through the show he had been lying to himself and his family that what he was doing was for the family.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I'm actually going through the first season again on Netflix. The show spoiled me because it was so ridiculously good. I'm holding up every other show to BB's standards and I know that's not fair. Right now nothing compares or even comes close to BB in my eyes except maybe Fringe. I'm just anticipating on the next season of Falling Skies.

 

[Philia]

I think after that episode, after Hank's death and after the Aryan's take Walt's money, Walt slowly comes to his senses again. He kinda got taken down a notch in away.

That was my one of my favorite scene of all of Breaking Bad.

Hank: "You want me to beg? You're the smartest guy I ever met, and you're too stupid to see -- he made up his mind 10 minutes ago."

Fucking Walt stupidly gave up his money then too.

Hank died the way he wanted, in glory and without compromise. I used to not like him much but man he really redeemed himself.

 

[Phatosaurus]

That was my one of my favorite scene of all of Breaking Bad.

Hank: "You want me to beg? You're the smartest guy I ever met, and you're too stupid to see -- he made up his mind 10 minutes ago."

Fucking Walt stupidly gave up his money then too.

It was a powerful scene. It was also a turning point for Walt in way because he finally couldn't get his own way. From Gus' death, to the train heist and the prison hit, everything was going Walt's way and then that scene changed all that.
He got caught out due to his own greed by Hank and Jesse, he couldn't get the Aryan's to spare Hank and he couldn't stop them from taking his money. He couldn't even get them to kill Jesse, which is why he called on them in first place.

I stayed up all night to watch the show and it was 6am when I finished that episode.

Spoiler

So then stayed 2 hours later still to finish off the series, had three hurs sleep and went to work, YOLO!

 

[Nameless]

And that's perfectly fine.

Spoiler

Why does the bad guy need to always be punished? Why can't the bad guy sometimes get away, or gets what he wants. I don't really understand why he needed to be punished.

I thought the ending worked, because Walt had to fully embrace who he always was. Without that element in the finale, I wouldn't have liked it as much as I did. Walt stopping the bullshit and making excuses, and accepting he's a piece of shit, is what sold me on this ending. Not only that, but Walt finally came to terms that the entire thing was a ruse. It was never about family. It was never about anything other then himself.

So why is it bad that someone that is like that, gets to go out on their own terms. Isn't' that kind of the tragedy of good vs bad? Also the show made it clear throughout, that Walt was a mastermind of pulling things off, when his back was against the wall (usually it was a choice of doing the right thing but getting caught, or doing the wrong thing and continuing his lifestyle). In the end, Walt is liberated by that, and doesn't need to choose. He knows exactly what he is, and what he's willing to do without caring about the consequences. Because of this, again, I was totally okay with Walt pulling off taking out all his enemies.

But it was about his family originally, I don't see how anyone can debate this. Saying it was 'never' about his family ignores the whole transformation and the very real fear and conflict Walt struggled with early on about leaving his family with nothing. As his character evolved he began to derive pleasure and more importantly a sense of accomplishment & success from the meth business, never mind the rush of it all. His motives slowly became less and less about his family.

The "I did it for me" line shouldn't have been a grand revelation to anyone at that point in the story. In Buyout he states pretty clearly that his motives are selfish and why. He 'owned up' to Skyler because he knew he was dying that night and that would be the last time he ever saw her. After everything he wanted to end things on as good of a note as possible. He said it for her, and you could see the relief in her body language as a result.

 

[simplayer]

But it was about his family originally, I don't see how anyone can debate this. Saying it was 'never' about his family ignores the whole transformation and the very real fear and conflict Walt struggled with early on about leaving his family with nothing. As his character evolved he began to derive pleasure and more importantly a sense of accomplishment & success from the meth business, never mind the rush of it all. His motives slowly became less and less about his family.

If it was truly about is family, why didn't he take the offer from Elliot in the first season? It's always been about him.

 

[Philia]

If it was truly about is family, why didn't he take the offer from Elliot in the first season? It's always been about him.

Yep.

At the end, it was just Skylar real tired of his lying peddling bullshit.

 

[John Rabbit]

i really feel like the show should've ended at season 4, but i like ambiguous abrupt endings. the entire last season just felt like a compressed version of the previous four seasons, and existed almost solely to tie up a lot of loose ends that really didn't need to be tied. it gave us some of the best character moments in the series, but only amongst a sea of what i felt was a lot of re-hashing old ideas, or reviving character arcs/plot threads that sort of fell by the wayside in season 4 and that i didn't miss. the last 2 episodes are so tonally different from the rest of the series i was just sort of glad it was over by the end.

more OT: skyler was annoying, but you're not supposed to like every character on the show as a person. almost all of her actions were justified or at bare minimum, completely understandable for a woman/wife/mother in her situation.

 

[Fezzan]

That's a good take on that. He was also massively jealous of his super rich peers and angry at his inadequate decisions he had made (selling his stock for rent when he was younger). But yeah there was a lot of factors that made Walt take a good hard look at his life right then and there and realize he got nothing to lose.

He never REALLY did cared about his family or his dignity. That went out the damn window.

He did, him starting to ccok meth was obviously bad for him and the family but he always cared.
Even when

Spoiler

Hank was there he could have told Jack to come and kill them, but he didn't want to he always cared but even Walt admits he did it for him and his ego

 

[out0v0rder]

I knew Skylar sucked after she gave Walt a disinterested handjob for his 50th goddammed birthday

 

[simplayer]

He did, him starting to ccok meth was obviously bad for him and the family but he always cared.
Even when

Spoiler

Hank was there he could have told Jack to come and kill them, but he didn't want to he always cared but even Walt admits he did it for him and his ego

Ya, he certainly cared about his family.

His pride is the reason he choose the route he did in caring for his family.

 

[Nameless]

If it was truly about is family, why didn't he take the offer from Elliot in the first season? It's always been about him.

A combination of pride, hate, and the fact that the yearly salary + paid medical bills wouldn't have been substantial enough to take care of everyone long term. He expects to be dead in months, remember.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

They were all emo. No one has ever felt as hard or as long as the characters on this show. One of my tv pet peeves has become characters staring out into space for extended periods of time. This is why I hate Jon Snow. And then BB goes on an releases an extra scene with Pinkman staring out into space while a stripper gyrates in front of him.

Jesse was such a big sack of shit and waste of space.

Spoiler

I wish they had killed him off in the first season like they intended. They could have at least killed him off at the end. At least we can rest assured he eventually died in that crack shack after escaping.

Without Walt to protect him he's a goner in a few months anyway.

From Vince Gilligan:

I'm going home to tell my wife she's a misogynist. That'll be fun.

 

[Mononoke]

But it was about his family originally, I don't see how anyone can debate this. Saying it was 'never' about his family ignores the whole transformation and the very real fear and conflict Walt struggled with early on about leaving his family with nothing. As his character evolved he began to derive pleasure and more importantly a sense of accomplishment & success from the meth business, never mind the rush of it all. His motives slowly became less and less about his family.

The "I did it for me" line shouldn't have been a grand revelation to anyone at that point in the story. In Buyout he states pretty clearly that his motives are selfish and why. He 'owned up' to Skyler because he knew he was dying that night and that would be the last time he ever saw her. After everything he wanted to end things on as good of a note as possible. He said it for her, and you could see the relief in her body language as a result.

I think it was about his family in that, he justified his actions to himself using the family angle. But deep down he was doing it for himself. He was tired of being pushed around in life, and got a thrill from taking control, and being the best at something. SO I don't really think it was ever about his family, I don't. I think him providing for his family was the excuse he gave himself, that allowed him to do things he knew was bad. But I don't think he ever was PURELY doing it for his family.

It was a motivator, and an excuse. But it wasn't what was driving him. I think that was the revelation of Heisenberg in the end of the show. What Walt finally accepted.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I think it was about his family in that, he justified his actions to himself using the family angle. But deep down he was doing it for himself. He was tired of being pushed around in life, and got a thrill from taking control, and being the best at something. SO I don't really think it was ever about his family, I don't. I think him providing for his family was the excuse he gave himself, that allowed him to do things he knew was bad. But I don't think he ever was PURELY doing it for his family.

It was a motivator, and an excuse. But it wasn't what was driving him. I think that was the revelation of Heisenberg in the end of the show. What Walt finally accepted.

Watch the first episode again. Too much hindsight in this thread.

 

[Nameless]

I think it was about his family in that, he justified his actions to himself using the family angle. But deep down he was doing it for himself. He was tired of being pushed around in life, and got a thrill from taking control, and being the best at something. SO I don't really think it was ever about his family, I don't. I think him providing for his family was the excuse he gave himself, that allowed him to do things he knew was bad. But I don't think he ever was PURELY doing it for his family.

It was a motivator, and an excuse. But it wasn't what was driving him. I think that was the revelation of Heisenberg in the end of the show. What Walt finally accepted.

Ok. I can get behind this a little more. Not acting purely in his family's interest and never acting in his family's interest are two very different things. I've never argued that Walt was completely selfless in his motives, rather that they weren't totally selfish at the onset. Clearly Walt was ashamed of his inability to provide to the level he wanted and panicked that the diagnosis meant he never would. He was struggling with two problems that combined into one. His family would be left with nothing on one hand, and he, a genius, would leave behind a legacy of failure & mediocrity on the other. Walt's not the first example of someone who's personal ambition and desire to do legitimate good became one in the same.

 

[Mononoke]

Watch the first episode again. Too much hindsight in this thread.

I have watched the show many times. And I still stand by that assessment. AND I've actually said this about the character back around Season 2 (as I was watching it live), so it's not like I just saw the final season, and came to that conclusion.

I actually thought it was baffling how people were still morally rooting for Walt even into Season 4. I thought the shows intention with the character was pretty clear into Season 2. But just me. Anyways, I'll admit that I might be making it too black and white. Like, maybe Walt's initial motivation was providing for his family. Okay. But there were plenty of points in the story early on, where he could have walked away.

And IMO they showed us a lot of little things with Walt (even back in Season 1), where he was getting off on doing what he was doing. Where he was getting thrills from it, and that was an addiction for Walt.

SO if you want to argue that Walt was doing it for family, for like a month..okay. Maybe you can sell me on that. But IMO that motivation was quickly corrupted. But I still think that it could be argued that deep down, the idea of cooking meth, and being an outlaw was appealing to Walt on a very visceral level.