Support NeoGAF

[The Technomancer]

The original Mass Effect was a good game. The combat was finicky, but not offensive, the story was laden with cliches, but you could tell it was out of love. It told a pretty interesting story, even if the big twist was “ancient evil aliens from beyond the galaxy are coming back” My biggest problems with it came down to the fact that I was stuck playing as a Space Marine (wheeee), and that for every great conversation or awesome piece of atmosphere that would strike me as fantastic, there would be two more dialogue exchanges that made me cringe, or plot devices flimsier then a house of cards that brought me crashing back down. There were some genuinely great moments, but they kept getting disrupted.

Mass Effect 1 disappointed me, but not on its own merits. Its not what I want out of a big space RPG, and when those are in such scarce quantity unfortunately it has to take the brunt of my frustrations, but it was an enjoyable experience. And I did have a significantly better time with it on my second playthrough a few weeks ago, primarily because a.)I didn't bother with most of the repetitious boring sidequests tis time, and b.)I specialized in Sniper Rifles, which made combat quite satisfying.

Short of creating “ze best space game evar” by dedicating years to perfecting every element of both game types, there were two broad directions BioWare could take the sequel: expand the galaxy, create a bunch of genuinely interesting sidequests, ramp up player customization and generally make a more freeform RPG, or tighten things down, cut out the fat, focus on the narrative, and make a linear story-driven experience. Obviously they went with the latter.

Now thats not necessarily a bad thing, at all. That doesn't really pre-dispose me towards the game, many of my favorite gaming experiences are linear but well told “narrative” journeys. (I refuse to use the term “cinematic”) And it definitely shows that they were trying to do that.

A lot of the RPG staples have been cut out, like the item micromanagement and the number-driven combat, and that works really well in the context of what Mass Effect 2 is trying to be. In fact I'm a fan of putting skill points only towards combat abilities and offloading things like Biotic cooldown upgrades and such to the research skills. It helps place the focus where it belongs and tightens up the pacing in one sense (more on pacing later though). The combat was oddly samey though. I don’t know why I make this comparison, I can’t pinpoint specific causes, but I literally came to this game a day after re-playing ME1, with the former fresh in my mind, and ME2 seemed like it had a lot more instances where combat is basically crouching behind a bunch of crates in a room and taking potshots. In fact, that’s pretty much all of the combat outside of a few set piece battles.

The characters are the highlight this time around, and they're a definite step above the first game. They still hit the prerequisite cliches, and the romance options are tacky, but I did genuinely enjoy learning more about them, even if it was more curiosity then compassion. Conversations are many and varied, and the single best part of the Mass Effect franchise (the lore) continues to be enjoyable to read and discuss. They're decent characters, and some of the best in the current industry, although thats halfhearted praise. The game definitely suffers from character overload though, and I think that ten characters really was just too many. Thane, Samara, and Legion in particular felt very underdeveopled, and I really wish they had gotten more time to come into their own. As a result the game felt very short to me, like I did a bunch of really short, contained things with a few story missions stitched in, and then it was over.

The overall quality is as disjointed as the first game as well. It actually started out very promisingly. The conversation with the Aria in the club on Omega was well choreographed, well acted and well written, and it got me very hopeful about the game. But like ME1, and really like all BioWare games, for every compelling well put together cutscene or piece of dialogue, there are four that range from mediocre to cringeworthy. And that's just on the main quest, the ratio is far worse with sidequests involved. But this would still be fine with a strong story.

They removed the majority of the inventory, as well as the planet exploration, which I'm fine with in the context of what they wanted from ME2. Of course my ideal Space RPG would have both in spades, but I'm trying not to judge the game based on what I think it should have been. Those are definite steps away from a customizable, explorable RPG and towards the semi-linear progression and the overall story focus. And I'm honestly fine with that...in theory. I actually applaud a developer who cares about plot and writing...in theory. Everything I've just talked about helps them set ME2 up to be a more cinematic (yes, I did use it this time) game overall, which can be a very good thing, but which places a lot of burden on the story that carries the game. A story that they seem to have forgotten to include. Wait, what?

This is the TL;DR paragraph
It just doesn't go anywhere. There's no sense of progression, which would be acceptable in a freeform RPG, but not in one who's express direction is towards being more story driven. It was around the time that I realized that nothing of importance was happening that I was struck with the biggest problem I have with ME2: I really don't know what its trying to be, and I'm not sure if the devs did either. It sends me such mixed signals: do they want the player to control the experience? Then why have they cut out so much player control? Do they want to guide the experience? Then why didn't they actually craft a good guided experience? Instead they give us this Mega Man style of progression that makes a tight, advancing plot difficult. We can all agree that its not trying to be a traditional RPG any more. But is it trying to be a great third person shooter? Its competent there, but not standout. Is it trying to tell a great narrative story? Well it failed at that, for many reasons. Was it trying to be a great character driven experience? Well its decent at that, but it overloads itself with far too many characters, so that in the end I didn’t really feel like I got to know many of them very well at all. It needed to either cut out about half the cast, or else go all out and offer thirty or so hours of character driven content. It was much more fun to play through in the initial hours then Mass Effect 1, but it lost steam like an inflatable train running over a porcupine. Its the same weird mishmash of both as ME1, but with various bits swapped around, and they're both weaker games then they could potentially be for it.
Given enough time and money I'd like to think that someone (not necessarily BioWare) could make an RPG that hits both notes with clarity, but when you're constrained to a development cycle its better to be the master of one trade then the jack of all.

I mean, they were so close. They had the gameplay: sure, it basically completely abandoned their RPG roots, but at least it was fast, responsive, and it didn't intrude. They had the presentation: the most consistently good voice acting and dialogue writing I've seen in a game that's even fractionally more non-linear then something like Uncharted. Admittedly that means a lot of mediocre, with some great thrown in, but when many games (Mass Effect 1 included) are mostly bad with a few mediocre, well hey, its progress!
And then they botched the story! The story and the macro-writing! All the believable dialogue in the world can't save you when you have serious pacing problems. They were so close, they had almost everything else, but they botched the story and with it the game's structure.

Oh and one other nitpick, that kind of bothered me: Mass Effect 1's story was pretty mediocre overall, but you know what it did really really really well? Made the Reapers seem like an incredibly ancient, incredibly alien, and above all incredibly dangerous threat. The first encounter with Sovereign in Saren's office is easily one of the best scenes in the game, as you come to grips with this intelligence that you're trying to converse with. ME2 didn't do that nearly as well, and I would personally like to meet and try to understand the aberrant person who somehow thought that the correct way to make a sinister main villain was to have him repeat the same six lines in the vein of "you are doomed Shepard" for every fucking encounter with the collectors. This game has almost no weight to its plot, they try to force some gravitas into the situation but it just doesn't work.
And the level of “humans are awesome, and you, Commander Shepard, are the most awesome of all awesome people” has been ratcheted up from annoying in ME1 to downright nauseating in ME2.

I know that I'm coming off pretty harsh in this post, and its true, I think ME2 has a lot of flaws. But there really isn't any piece of it thats bad, at worst its mediocre and at best its fun. Its gameplay wasn't actually "good", it was too repetitive and shallow in both combat and dialogue for that. But it wasn't offensively bad, and there was something weirdly compelling about it that pushed me to finish it in under a week.

I'd really like it if the majority of this thread was people actually responding to my comments, rather then “ME2 was brilliant, maybe you don't get it” and “ME2 sucks, you're totally right”. I'd like to think my opinions are a bit more complicated then that.

Oh, and for those who are curious: my Shepard survived, and I lost Thane, Legion and Miranda in the assault.

 

[Typographenia]

But what we all really want to know is who you romanced.



Very good write up. The game definitely suffers from many writing issues, but it was still one of my favorite games of last yeah. The lore, like you said, fascinates me, even if it's mostly derivative of other sources. Its world is what attracted me to the first game, and it's what has carried me over this far.

Combat felt pretty different for me, simply because it was so easy in the first I spent most of the game without ever taking cover. I also ran as a soldier and picked up vanguard in 2, so it was a more noticeable change for me.


Characters were a pleasure in the second game (not that I didn't like them in 1), but I definitely agree on the number. I love talking to all my crewmates, but 10 is too many. It started to feel like a chore to visit all of them, so I was glad when I reached the end of a few of their dialogue trees.
Still, they're the second best reason to play the games, personally, and I hope they're treated well in 3.

And whole-heartedly agree about the reapers. They were handled so excellently in the first game, and they really lost that edge in 2. I'm not counting on ever feeling that same level of intensity, but maybe we'll have some good stuff in 3 that harkens back to it?

Spoiler

: (

 

[The Technomancer]

But what we all really want to know is who you romanced.

I didn't, I cut off all conversation with Jacob when I realized that the game was giving all of my lines this weird flirtatious bent, and it was entirely against the character I had built up for Shepard. After that I tried to be careful around the romancable males.

And yeah, of all the cast I felt that Legion, Thane and Mordin had the most potential, and the first two especially did not feel like they got their due. I still do not understand the obsession with Tali, she was one of the weakest characters in both games for me, almost no personality.

 

[Typographenia]

After that I tried to be careful around the romancable males.

That's something that really annoyed me in 2. I would be talking to my crew and then suddenly be confronted with "do you want to sex me or not?!" What?! I thought we were just talking!

In the first, it felt much more like you had to actively push your conversation towards being flirtatious to get those kinds of results. The dialogue results definitely felt more pandering toward the horny teen demographic, and that was really distracting.



Forgot to mention it earlier, but it really took me a while to adjust to the lack of inventory. I hated fighting with the menu in 1 when I would go to sell or gel something at the bottom of the list and then be tossed back to the top after doing so. However, I really enjoyed the amount of customization it offered, and I hated to see that go in 2. I'm really hoping 3 strikes a good balance on that, but I have a feeling it's certainly more biased towards 2's approach.

 

[Bowdz]

Beautiful write up. Although I liked ME1 a bit more than you did, I agree with literally everything you said about ME2.

This game has almost no weight to its plot, they try to force some gravitas into the situation but it just doesn't work.

One of the biggest problems with the game overall as far as I am concerned. As much as a personally think the game is a poor middle chapter to a story mainly about the Reapers, ME2 could have had a very tight, well paced narrative if they had managed to show the player the gravity of the situation. The game constantly tells you about how horrible the Collectors are, how many people they have taken, and how dangerous the final run will be, but the player doesn't really see any of the horrors of the Collectors (save for the brief encounter on Horizon). It doesn't help that every time we meet the Collectors, they aren't really any more difficult that normal mercs making the hyped up end seem less daunting the further into the game the player gets. After the Collector ship, I was thinking "Let's just go now. We haven't had a problem with any of them thus far, the main base can't be be that bad".

If Bioware had just tightened the pacing and tweaked the story of the main narrative, I think the game would have been so much more memorable than it already is.

 

[Nappuccino]

I didn't, I cut off all conversation with Jacob when I realized that the game was giving all of my lines this weird flirtatious bent, and it was entirely against the character I had built up for Shepard. After that I tried to be careful around the romancable males.

And yeah, of all the cast I felt that Legion, Thane and Mordin had the most potential, and the first two especially did not feel like they got their due. I still do not understand the obsession with Tali, she was one of the weakest characters in both games for me, almost no personality.

She's got a slight impression of helplessness and she's mysterious so fanboys put all sorts of their own projections on her... i guess?

 

[Stallion Free]

I still do not understand the obsession with Tali, she was one of the weakest characters in both games for me, almost no personality.

She has so much personality.... in fanfics.

 

[Metroidvania]

Definitely agree with most of what's being said.

ME2 is interesting (and a huge departure from 1) in that the squad was supposed to be the focus as opposed to the galaxy at large, as it was broadcast from the beginning that depending on your actions, characters you'd hopefully have gotten to know and have an interest in would suffer perma-death.

But for all that, I definitely agree, this change in direction (which went pretty well, I definitely didn't want any of the party dying, although some of the characters i.e. Subject Zero were a little too "hardcore") at the expense of the overall plot and development. There's no gravity to any of the main story quests besides collecting new companions until the very end, and even then, just barely. The story went from zero to awesome in bringing Shepard to life, but then cut back down to a plodding walk. Recruiting characters was all well and good, but there's so little tying them to the vaguely imposed "beat up the collectors" that the dossiers just seem random.

Plus, aside from the loyalty missions, all the N7 missions were a 5-10 minute "land, explore or maybe shoot a few things, done". No real story attached to any of them, and the consequences of your actions were even more abstract than some of ME1's. Combine that with the lack of inventory, choices from ME1 redacted down to a random email that gave you absolutely nothing, and lack of any real exploration, ME2 was kinda a whole different animal.

All in all, while I definitely enjoyed ME2 for the continuation of Shepard's story and the improved shooting mechanics (although thermal clips are a blatant way to up the difficulty in that you only have so many shots to kill the super-armored foes on insanity), the trimming of 1's "rpg" features like an inventory and interesting side-quests really disappointed me. As a game, it's a well done 3rd person shooter with RPG elements. In terms of continuing ME1's vision of the universe, not so much.

Here's hoping to see that ME3 returns some of ME1's features, though from the demos shown and the answers given by Bioware, I'm being a very cautious about being an optimist.

I still do not understand the obsession with Tali, she was one of the weakest characters in both games for me, almost no personality.

Tali's pretty much there to tie into the Quarian race as a whole and get more information on the home flotilla, she has no real bearing on the plot otherwise. Still not as weird to me as the people who demanded the Garrus romance for Femshep. Anything's better than a Cart-er Kaiden or Jacob (a.k.a. Kaiden 2.0), I guess.

 

[Lard]

So when is the inevitable GOTY edition coming out?

 

[The Technomancer]

Plus, aside from the loyalty missions, all the N7 missions were a 5-10 minute "land, explore or maybe shoot a few things, done". No real story attached to any of them, and the consequences of your actions were even more abstract than some of ME1's. Combine that with the lack of inventory, choices from ME1 redacted down to a random email that gave you absolutely nothing, and lack of any real exploration, ME2 was kinda a whole different animal.

Even most of the loyalty missions were like that. Samaria's was interesting, although the structure of the conversation with her daughter failed a bit in execution. I liked what they tried to do with Thane's, that worked out pretty well. Jack actually had one of the better loyalty missions, but they completely ruined the atmosphere by throwing in random merc shooting when it would have worked much better as just a creepy jaunt through her past. The rest all basically boiled down to "land-> talk to someone -> shoot some things ->make a big choice!!"

Oh, also, apparently choosing to reprogram the Geth is the paragon option? What the fuck BioWare, consistency in your apparent "morals" would be nice.

 

[Typographenia]

So when is the inevitable GOTY edition coming out?

It already did, it's on the ps3.

I still do not understand the obsession with Tali, she was one of the weakest characters in both games for me, almost no personality.

Did you edit your post? I swear I don't remember that second paragraph, haha!
How often did you take Tali into missions? I felt that was more of the areas where she stood out in the "personality" department. Her and Garrus had some good moments together too, but the onboard stuff turned into "uguu~?" more often than I would have liked.

Spoiler

I need to feel your skin against mine.

I really enjoy the Quarian people, and it was great to get to see the flotilla. I'm really hoping that in the next game we get even better things from them.

 

[Bowdz]

Even most of the loyalty missions were like that. Samaria's was interesting, although the structure of the conversation with her daughter failed a bit in execution. I liked what they tried to do with Thane's, that worked out pretty well. Jack actually had one of the better loyalty missions, but they completely ruined the atmosphere by throwing in random merc shooting when it would have worked much better as just a creepy jaunt through her past. The rest all basically boiled down to "land-> talk to someone -> shoot some things ->make a big choice!!"

Oh, also, apparently choosing to reprogram the Geth is the paragon option? What the fuck BioWare, consistency in your apparent "morals" would be nice.

Paragon has boiled down to "everyone lives" and renegade is "everyone dies". I always loved how Bioware talked about bringing true grey morals into ME, and yet the majority of the decisions in both games are between shooting someone/allowing a teammate to shoot someone or talking it out and having everyone live. Hopefully, ME3 will have some legitimately hard, lose-lose choices to make.

 

[Metroidvania]

Oh, also, apparently choosing to reprogram the Geth is the paragon option? What the fuck BioWare, consistency in your apparent "morals" would be nice.

Definitely didn't understand this one. Was looking at the murder option and thinking "why is it in the renegade spot?"

Paragon has boiled down to "everyone lives" and renegade is "everyone dies". I always loved how Bioware talked about bringing true grey morals into ME, and yet the majority of the decisions in both games are between shooting someone/allowing a teammate to shoot someone or talking it out and having everyone live.

Pretty much this.

Incidentally, the renegade answers to the "loyalty mission checks" between Miranda and Jack and Liara and Legion really make me wonder how Shepard could ever keep a crew loyal. Add that to every single store having "I'm commander Shepard and this is my favorite store on the citadel" with Paragon, and there's no longer any real semblance of different conclusions in the vast majority of paragon/renegade options.

In essence, ME1 had some paragon or renegade options closing down sidequests, such as the Asari on Noveria who wanted you to spy on someone closing prematurely with a paragon response. ME2 never really has that. Both paragon and renegade merely act as shortcuts for the player to utilize. Sure, they might be different ways of doing things with dialogue, but it's the same end result. Your "choice" has lost a significant amount of weight.

Hopefully, ME3 will have some legitimately hard, lose-lose choices to make.

All I want is one nice example of when using a paragon or renegade option makes things MORE difficult. It's turned from the morality meter into two "I win" buttons on the upper and lower right side of the wheel.

 

[Bowdz]

Add that to every single store having "I'm commander Shepard and this is my favorite store on the citadel" with Paragon, and there's no longer any real semblance of different conclusions in the vast majority of paragon/renegade options.

I always forget about that. I remember the first playthrough I made sitting and wondering if I had made the right choice endorsing the first store I came to and then pondering about the consequences for pull the same stunt with a different store at the same time. I was expecting some kind of confrontation and in the end, I didn't want to risk anything with my Paragon Shepard. It wasn't until I got online that I found out that you could play the good guy and endorse everybody you ran into without any consequences. Definitely not the most paragon action I can think of.

 

[kai3345]

I disagree with you on your statement on ME2's cast being better than the first's as well as your thoughts on the removal of the RPG aspects was the right direction.

But everything else I agree with you on.

 

[lastplayed]

Oh and one other nitpick, that kind of bothered me: Mass Effect 1's story was pretty mediocre overall, but you know what it did really really really well? Made the Reapers seem like an incredibly ancient, incredibly alien, and above all incredibly dangerous threat. The first encounter with Sovereign in Saren's office is easily one of the best scenes in the game, as you come to grips with this intelligence that you're trying to converse with.

Yeah, that conversation with Sovereign and Vigil really made you feel like humanity and all its achievements are just another insignificant blip in the vast history of the universe, and that it's about to be totally wiped out just for the sake of it. ME2 never has that sense of doom about it, even with all the collector ships full of humans.

 

[Yoshichan]

I still do not understand the obsession with Tali, she was one of the weakest characters in both games for me, almost no personality.

You have no heart.

 

[Gravijah]

Tali's pretty much there to tie into the Quarian race as a whole and get more information on the home flotilla, she has no real bearing on the plot otherwise. Still not as weird to me as the people who demanded the Garrus romance for Femshep.

I fall under both groups!

 

[The Technomancer]

I disagree with you on your statement on ME2's cast being better than the first's as well as your thoughts on the removal of the RPG aspects was the right direction.

But everything else I agree with you on.

Its not that I think the removal of the RPG elements was the right direction, so much as I don't think its a bad direction. Its not where I personally wanted to see the franchise go, but I don't think that it actually damaged the gameplay. Its just different.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Obligatory Statler & Waldorf video.

Mass Effect 2's shooter gameplay is 1000x better than ME1. ME2 has some fantastic characters, especially in your party. The Mako was mega-shit and I cannot take the opinion of people who liked using it seriously, nor can I believe that anybody liked the UNC missions in the first game. Mass Effect 2's most significant failing is it's terrible main plot. Another notable failing was the lack of integration of party members as a "crew", with nearly no non-player interactions going on, resulting in feeling like you're living on a ghost ship despite being packed full of people. The abolition of the inventory and simplification of leveling does not make it worse, it just makes it different. If you wish for a deeper RPG experience, that is a valid opinion, although keep in mind that action games are not inherently worse, and that this is still an RPG, just a different kind.

It's irrelevant anyway Since Deus Ex 3 is going to be RPG of the generation.

 

[Metroidvania]

I disagree with you on your statement on ME2's cast being better than the first's as well as your thoughts on the removal of the RPG aspects was the right direction.

But everything else I agree with you on.

Out of ME1's cast, who would you say is more interesting than ME2's?

In ME1, Tali's an information dump, as is Liara to an extent, Kaiden is.....yeah. Granted, Wrex and Garrus are cool, and Ashley's at least interesting, but I'd argue that Mordin, Legion, and Thane are just as good if not better. Granted, Jacob, Grunt, and Jack are all horribly stereotypical, but ME2 has more of them to choose from. (although probably too many).

I fall under both groups!

I suppose I just don't see Garrus' appeal in ME1 that made some people want a romance in ME2. /shrug.

In any case, from what's been said about the romance options for ME3, it looks like the possibility of some people from the ME1's squad have either become bisexual a la every romanceable NPC in DA2, or that they've switched stances on ME1's "it's not a lesbian romance because Liara isn't female, I can't hear you lalalala". We'll have to wait and see.

nor can I believe that anybody liked the UNC missions in the first game.

I, for one, would rather take UNC's mako and open world traversing over a 3 minute N7 "explore an abandoned ship that's secretly just an on-rails pathway" mission any day. Granted, the mineral finding one was terrible, though I'd argue that ME2's was worse, made better only by the fact that you could keep track of which planets you'd depleted.

 

[The Technomancer]

A good example of the weird disjointedness of the experience that I just remembered: the attack near the end where you take control of Joker. Its interesting, energetic and dramatic, and was a fun little diversion. But it also makes absolutely no sense. For starters, what was that "mission" that Shepard had to take all of the crew on? I didn't have a mission! I didn't have anywhere to be. They just needed to get me off the ship.
Its certainly believable that the IFF would be a trap, but from a design standpoint why did this sequence take place? It literally contributed nothing to the plot, because the abduction of the crew carries zero emotional weight. We were headed to the collectors anyway, you didn't need to give us more reason to go where we were already going. At the end of it we're still planning on doing the same thing, for the same reasons, the Normandy just has less people on it now. It reeks of trying to inflate the "stakes"

The only thing I can really think of it doing is giving some closure to the arc of Joker and EDI, which it did, but in a completely ham-fisted way that felt shoved in at the last moment. It was just so out of place, like they had this idea about having Joker and the VI finally become "friends", and were so enamored with it that they had to work it in.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

A good example of the weird disjointedness of the experience that I just remembered: the attack near the end where you take control of Joker.

The game is trying to distract you so you don't notice the following:

• Shepard and Cerberus had no plans, and were simply going to "wing it" once they got to the other side.
• Shepard did not bring along any big nukes to blow the station, even though we know he has access to them (Jack's loyalty mission).
• Shepard would have been royally screwed if they had two space stations, or even two collector ships rather than one. Note that at no point does Shepard have any idea of the force strength of the opposition, and is aware that the SR2's stealth is worthless against them, and if they were actually a civilization instead of a small research outpost with one ship (which they THOUGHT the collectors were at the time), there was 0% chance of success. Not just a suicide mission, but no chance of completing the objectives, at all.
• The IFF was worthless anyway since it spat you out 10 meters away from GIANT SPACE DEBRIS that almost destroyed you, debris that the collector ship itself could not possibly have avoided because of it's size and lack of maneuverability.

 

[pje122]

So when is the inevitable GOTY edition coming out?

.
And no, the PS3 one does not count at all.

 

[Freakinchair]

A good example of the weird disjointedness of the experience that I just remembered: the attack near the end where you take control of Joker. Its interesting, energetic and dramatic, and was a fun little diversion. But it also makes absolutely no sense. For starters, what was that "mission" that Shepard had to take all of the crew on? I didn't have a mission! I didn't have anywhere to be. They just needed to get me off the ship.
Its certainly believable that the IFF would be a trap, but from a design standpoint why did this sequence take place? It literally contributed nothing to the plot, because the abduction of the crew carries zero emotional weight. We were headed to the collectors anyway, you didn't need to give us more reason to go where we were already going. At the end of it we're still planning on doing the same thing, for the same reasons, the Normandy just has less people on it now. It reeks of trying to inflate the "stakes"

The only thing I can really think of it doing is giving some closure to the arc of Joker and EDI, which it did, but in a completely ham-fisted way that felt shoved in at the last moment. It was just so out of place, like they had this idea about having Joker and the VI finally become "friends", and were so enamored with it that they had to work it in.

I loved that part and disagree with you. I liked the crew - the doctor and the assistant the most. Just because you didnt have any attatchment to them doesnt mean nobody did. It also provided a unique sense of urgency to the mission. One of the best moments of the game for me.

 

[The Technomancer]

I loved that part and disagree with you. I liked the crew - the doctor and the assistant the most. Just because you didnt have any attatchment to them doesnt mean nobody did. It also provided a unique sense of urgency to the mission. One of the best moments of the game for me.

Yeah, thats what I don't get the most about it. I didn't think that the mission needed a sense of urgency, I was already looking forward to it because it was the single thing they had spent the whole game hyping up. I mean part of that as well is that the abductions occur right before you go to the collector base, so there isn't a lot of time to be crew-less. It just felt like "oh we needed more reason for you to go after them so....the crew is gone! go get them back!"

 

[Sir Garbageman]

All I want is one nice example of when using a paragon or renegade option makes things MORE difficult. It's turned from the morality meter into two "I win" buttons on the upper and lower right side of the wheel.

+1. So stupid what they did with the paragon and renegade meter. At least in ME1 you had to drop points into charm / intimidate so you had to earn the "I win" dialogue button and sacrifice some combat abilities. Not the case in ME2, all you had to do is always pick the same color coded option and there you go, no tough decisions to make. You're always right!

 

[Pre]

I felt like Bioware really gutted a lot of the RPG elements that I loved about the first game. Simplifying inventory, leveling, customization, etc. and making it more of straight action game really soured things for me. I also felt like the world wasn't nearly as open and the game design was just linear as hell (oh, how convenient, more stacks of boxes in inappropriate places).

I still enjoyed it but it didn't live up to the first game. I'm pleased that Bioware is shooting for a happy medium with ME3, I just hope it isn't another case of Gears of War meets the Dirty Dozen.

 

[The Technomancer]

So I honestly would really like to hear from someone who called it GOTY last year, because most people in here so far agree with me. I mean, I don't really understand the GOTY thing. Not at all saying that opinions aren't valid, because of course they are, but I'm genuinely curious to have articulated why it was that ME2 was considered so fantastic.

 

[Xapati]

I loved Mass Effect 2. You are right in that the story makes no sense and reading the previews of ME3 has convinced me that it is all a giant joke that Bioware is pulling on us. However I really liked the gameply (played as a soldier) and the weapons felt really great. Plus the renegade dialog is full of "I'm Commander Shepard fuck yeah!" moments that make you laugh.

 

[The Technomancer]

RIGHT! I just remembered something. Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to express low health with godamn red veins all over your vision. Seriously?

 

[lastplayed]

So I honestly would really like to hear from someone who called it GOTY last year, because most people in here so far agree with me. I mean, I don't really understand the GOTY thing. Not at all saying that opinions aren't valid, because of course they are, but I'm genuinely curious to have articulated why it was that ME2 was considered so fantastic.

Yeah, I'd call it my overall GOTY 2010. I think the whole package is what made it for me, the characters, the voice acting, the presentation, music, design. It was a really enjoyable experience from start to finish. Yes, it has flaws and as RPGs go, I think I prefer ME1, but I loved playing ME2 and still do.

 

[someguyinahat]

I recently played ME1 and 2 in quick succession. I really enjoyed ME1 despite a few flaws such as samey warehouses. Driving around the surfaces of planets on the Mako was a blast. Who cares if it's unrealistic? I'm playing bump 'n' jump and picking off guys at a distance using my cannon. Looting weapons was fun and the customizable inventory was great. Have a feeling you're about to fight geth? There's an ammo for that. I liked the characters and the dialogue, for the most part. Levelling up felt good: there were a few places where I kept dying in the beginning, and later on I was breezing through. Throwing Sabotage and Overload in quick succession gives you that badass feeling near the end.

One small thing that really stuck out about ME1: people bringing up Akuze was a nice touch. The appropriate dialogue changes for your background were nice. But on the flip side, nobody ever calls you by your first name so they don't have to do dialogue for both genders?

Then I played ME2. Cool! I get to import my character...it'll be like Quest For Glory where I can start at level 50 and have all my stats but they'll raise the caps so it won't be too...
wait, what? Level THREE?! I get that they still want you to progress, but geez. Then I saw what happened to the skills and I realize why - most of them are gone. Lack of inventory was pretty bad - after all, reading about the different weapon and armour corporations was a nice bit of flavour - but then they decided to add "thermal clips" as a faux ammo. In ME1, "hey look, your ammo is sheared off a block so you can have thousands of rounds and only have to worry about heat" to me sounds futuristic. Then two years later everyone decides you have to carry clips everywhere because you can get off shots faster. That MIGHT wash, but for the fact that ME2 is now a cover shooter. The game is now inherently designed for short bursts of fire, so the savings in speed would be effectively zero. I really didn't like the "let's crouch behind everything" method of fighting, but maybe this is something people like, I dunno.

As for the planet sequences, whereas before you'd bump around, manually collect metals and artifacts by playing frogger, then move into Warehouse Model #2, now you're in a confined space that, while better designed, doesn't feel nearly as planetlike.

This isn't to say that ME2 was all bad. Things I did like:

More characters. Six was okay in ME1 and I could see why they did that: one for each strength or multiclass. But I like a big, varied crew. Some characters (Mordin) were better than others (Jack) but overall I think ME2 did it better. Mind you, I'd rather they didn't have the Illusive Man go "Here, find these guys" but rather you come across them more organically.

More varied mini-games and setpieces. I never got totally BORED of ME1's Frogger, but it was nice to see Concentration in door bypasses, the matching game for hacking, etc. The pathway sequence on the derelict ship and the generator puzzle were also welcome. And yes, I really did like the Joker setpiece for reasons I can't really quantify. Perhaps it was just the copious use of the word "shit" or watching the poor guy hobble while others get snatched up and he can't do a thing except his own mission. But again, a little more variety helped.

The endgame. Assigning people according to their strengths and going in two teams, using ALL your guys. It really felt like you were a team at that point, as opposed to a loose cadre of whom you were picking two at a time for no real reason. Assigning Miranda as the leader of the other team, then checking in on them later and having Thane answer during a hail of gunfire felt so right. But what the fuck was up with the final boss? THAT was the best the Reapers could do?

The emails from people you helped. Nice touch to be thanked afterward. Seeing your romance's picture in your cabin, and then put face down when you find a new romance, was also a neat design decision.

Martin Sheen. Nuff said.

One bad thing about ME2 that I didn't really mention earlier: the characters from ME1 who just show up and are all "Hey, remember me? We met during this thing in ME1 and you did this?" It felt really tacked-on and fan-servicey. Wrex was done right: You saved him and he moved on and he had a reason not to join you. As for the council, they make one brief appearance and it just felt like your decisions really don't make all that huge an impact. One would think that the saving or the destruction of the council would result in two nearly entirely different games but that wasn't the case.

Overall, it was fine as a game but I was expecting an RPG and I didn't get it. I haven't looked at the ME3 previews yet - I'm scared to do so.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

It was never my "GOTY" but I did really love my first playthrough of the game.

As soon as it ended and I reflected upon it, however, my opinion started to change as I realised how they completely ruined the narrative and that ultimately the game was nothing more than Shepard going around the galaxy recruiting buddies.

I also realised that despite being a much bigger game, somehow it felt more restricted. The way in which XP was dished out at the end of a mission, the fact you had a summary screen, etc etc... it was just too streamlined and didn't feel like a fluid adventure.

It's a good game, but it lacks the charm, sense of exploration and absolutely awesome narrative of the first game.

 

[soldat7]

Short of creating “ze best space game evar” by dedicating years to perfecting every element of both game types, there were two broad directions BioWare could take the sequel: expand the galaxy, create a bunch of genuinely interesting sidequests, ramp up player customization and generally make a more freeform RPG, or tighten things down, cut out the fat, focus on the narrative, and make a linear story-driven experience. Obviously they went with the latter.

Oh what might have been.

Excellent write-up.

 

[Bowdz]

It was never my "GOTY" but I did really love my first playthrough of the game.

As soon as it ended and I reflected upon it, however, my opinion started to change as I realised how they completely ruined the narrative and that ultimately the game was nothing more than Shepard going around the galaxy recruiting buddies.

I also realised that despite being a much bigger game, somehow it felt more restricted. The way in which XP was dished out at the end of a mission, the fact you had a summary screen, etc etc... it was just too streamlined and didn't feel like a fluid adventure.

It's a good game, but it lacks the charm, sense of exploration and absolutely awesome narrative of the first game.

I always forget about the mission completely screen. IMO, it is one of the worst and most pointless additions to the game. It just continually breaks up the flow and strips any sense of immersion away.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Yep, nothing reminds you more that you're playing a game than a "MISSION COMPLETE" screen.

 

[Patryn]

ME2 had two fundamental plot problems: The time to gather the team would have been the first game, and it does nothing to raise the stakes.

What continues to boggle my mind is that there was this whole stealth secondary major plotline in ME1 that ran through most of the various sidequests establishing this shadowy organization called Cerberus that was attempting to build an army, experimenting with a ton of alien lifeforms, has military and government connections, and isn't afraid to kill anyone who got in their way.

So rather than making a game in which Shepard fought the internal threat that was lurking in the shadows and which had been built up in the first game, they decided suddenly that actually they aren't that bad, and you'll be working with them instead. For like no reason.

ME3 released info:

Spoiler

And now they're going back to being bad guys, making it clear that Bioware never had any clue what to do with this group. Aggravating.

Imagine a game in which you're fighting against a Cerberus that is destabilizing the government from the shadows, cutting off Shepard's support structure and undermining her status in the galaxy. Then just as you stop them, you have a situation where the various governments and races are in disarray and the Reapers show up?

That's how you raise the stakes.

Instead, we end up exactly where we started.

It's been said many times before, but ME2 feels like a series of DLC missions strung together and called a game. It's almost too modular.

 

[The Technomancer]

Imagine a game in which you're fighting against a Cerberus that is destabilizing the government from the shadows, cutting off Shepard's support structure and undermining her status in the galaxy. Then just as you stop them, you have a situation where the various governments and races are in disarray and the Reapers show up?

Oh man, that would have been awesome.

 

[elrechazado]

Mass Effect is the best standalone game of this gen for me. I played 2, and have convinced myself that it's a bad shooter that someone skinned with mass effect skins. That makes it easier, and I can pretend in my head that someday there will be a good sequel.

First one was so amazing, made 2 hurt so bad.

 

[The Technomancer]

Mass Effect is the best standalone game of this gen for me. I played 2, and have convinced myself that it's a bad shooter that someone skinned with mass effect skins. That makes it easier, and I can pretend in my head that someday there will be a good sequel.

First one was so amazing, made 2 hurt so bad.

I wouldn't call it the best, but I do think that the entirety of the Virmire mission is one of the best put together sequences of this gen. It started with one of the most tense and important interactions in the entire game (Wrex), took you through some varied environments from the tropical beaches to the inside of the research lab, had two of the games absolute best dialogue sequences (Sovereign and Saren), and ended by giving you Sophie's choice.

If the entire game was as high quality as Virmire then I would genuinly love it.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I'm working my way through ME2 right now.

I like ME1 a bit more, probably because of the 10x better soundtrack. Oh, and the planets/Mako.

 

[elrechazado]

I wouldn't call it the best, but I do think that the entirety of the Virmire mission is one of the best put together sequences of this gen. It started with one of the most tense and important interactions in the entire game (Wrex), took you through some varied environments from the tropical beaches to the inside of the research lab, had two of the games absolute best dialogue sequences (Sovereign and Saren), and ended by giving you Sophie's choice.

I know others wouldn't call it the best, that's why I said "for me" - just hit me really hard and I loved the gameplay as well, so it was the perfect experience for me.

 

[revolverjgw]

The missing exploration elements from ME2 killed it for me. There was nothing left but a mediocre shooter and a weird minigame where you massaged a sphere.

Yeah, the Mako was awkward, the planets were kind of featureless and there were only three kinds of building layouts in the universe, but at least they tried to make it feel like you were exploring space. I assumed they'd be able to flesh out the exploration in ME2, having more time and resources to handcraft original content now that they already had the basics done. Instead of building on it, they quit on it. Heartbreaking. The few times in ME1 where the exploration DID feel substantial, like in the story mission where you cruise the ice planet en route to an isolated base, it felt like a real adventure.

 

[The Technomancer]

Hm, I do have some unresolved questions about the game now that I'm done. What determines who dies at the end? I noticed Miranda was the only one who didn't make it out of the final fight, and coincidentally she was the one who's loyalty I lost. And what happens if you agree to bring the wreckage of the Collector vessel back to TIM?

 

[HK-47]

Hm, I do have some unresolved questions about the game now that I'm done. What determines who dies at the end? I noticed Miranda was the only one who didn't make it out of the final fight, and coincidentally she was the one who's loyalty I lost. And what happens if you agree to bring the wreckage of the Collector vessel back to TIM?

There a stat for likelihood of survival at the end. Unloyal characters have a really low one. They almost always die, even if you bring them with you to the final fight.

Anything regarding the Collector base will be in ME3. It only changes the color of the star in the background of TIM's room in ME2

 

[The Technomancer]

There a stat for likelihood of survival at the end. Unloyal characters have a really low one. They almost always die, even if you bring them with you to the final fight.

Anything regarding the Collector base will be in ME3. It only changes the color of the star in the background of TIM's room in ME2

Hm, okay, certain characters always die though, right? Or at least certain roles. Thane was my man in the vents, and he got shot closing the doors, and then I took Mordin and Legion with me through the swarm and Legion got the bullet at the end of that sequence.

I was rather proud of that. I lost the one who was terminally ill anyways and the replaceable agent of a collective consciousness.

 

[HK-47]

Hm, okay, certain characters always die though, right? Or at least certain roles. Thane was my man in the vents, and he got shot closing the doors, and then I took Mordin and Legion with me through the swarm and Legion got the bullet at the end of that sequence.

I was rather proud of that. I lost the one who was terminally ill anyways and the replaceable agent of a collective consciousness.

Its fairly obvious who you are suppose to pick for certain parts. Only Miranda, Jacob and Grrus can be fire team leader, only Samara or Jack can do the biotic bubble and only Tali, Legion or Kasumi can do the vents.

Miranda can actually be fire team leader even if she isnt loyal.

 

[Patryn]

Hm, okay, certain characters always die though, right? Or at least certain roles. Thane was my man in the vents, and he got shot closing the doors, and then I took Mordin and Legion with me through the swarm and Legion got the bullet at the end of that sequence.

I was rather proud of that. I lost the one who was terminally ill anyways and the replaceable agent of a collective consciousness.

Oh god. Another Thane pointlessly lost to the vents.

 

[subversus]

Why Thane in the vents??? Does he have leet hacking skills?