Its like DLC deals but with a full game.
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LTTP Phil Spencer is a cool guy after listening to his Podcast Unlocked interview
- Thread starter Vanillalite
- Start date
Its like DLC deals but with a full game.
Isn't it confirmed MS is putting money and development resources into TR? Could have sworn I saw that somewhere.
Absolutely, its common practice. Xbox gamers do gain the benefit of this game being geared to Xbox one strengths, weather that means a better looking game, better integration with kinect or even working closely with MS engineers its now a single stream of development with ample time to get things right. I'm sorry but people screaming about it may, on some level be sincerely upset but they'll get it at some point, but people outraged here (to me) come across bitter because their company of choice didn't make the same arrangement .
Also the idea of investing in a new studio is better doesn't make as much business sense given the risk is far greater. But MS do invest, they also collaborate which is a perfectly reasonable strategy.
It's hard to buy that given the game is very far into production already. I doubt MS is was there at the ground floor helping the game be made.
shacklesmcgee
Member
As a PC gamer, isn't MS supposed to be my "company of choice"? Why did I lose the ability to play TR on my MS product (Windows)? So that I go buy another MS product?
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
He's definitely better than what came before.
But he's not necessarily what the Xbox brand needs to become trustworthy again. Some people (many of which with a "I believe in Phil Spencer" button in their avatar) don't seem to grasp that there is a difference. You can be better than Mattrick (he is) but that doesn't make you a new JAllard.
Much of what he has said has not yet come to fruition. And things like Minecraft purchase, Tomb Raider purchase, ongoing indie parity restrictions, etc were 100% on his watch with no outlet to blame it on Mattrick. At best, he is talking the talk but we still need to see how far he's willing to walk the walk. The loyalists who bleed green are already satisfied with him. That's fine. But the market as a whole has not yet decided to trust the Xbox brand yet because at this point, it's nothing but talk.
But he's not necessarily what the Xbox brand needs to become trustworthy again. Some people (many of which with a "I believe in Phil Spencer" button in their avatar) don't seem to grasp that there is a difference. You can be better than Mattrick (he is) but that doesn't make you a new JAllard.
Much of what he has said has not yet come to fruition. And things like Minecraft purchase, Tomb Raider purchase, ongoing indie parity restrictions, etc were 100% on his watch with no outlet to blame it on Mattrick. At best, he is talking the talk but we still need to see how far he's willing to walk the walk. The loyalists who bleed green are already satisfied with him. That's fine. But the market as a whole has not yet decided to trust the Xbox brand yet because at this point, it's nothing but talk.
It's pretty cool that we live in a gaming generation where the top dudes of the major three are all relatable dudes.
Say what you want about Iwata, but he's a relatable dude.
Edit: This really hit me during Giantbomb's table-gathering video things at E3 where they had Shu, Adam Boyes, and Phil Spencer come to their crazy shit-talking Giantbomb get-together.
This probably would have never happened with top dudes last generation.
Say what you want about Iwata, but he's a relatable dude.
Edit: This really hit me during Giantbomb's table-gathering video things at E3 where they had Shu, Adam Boyes, and Phil Spencer come to their crazy shit-talking Giantbomb get-together.
This probably would have never happened with top dudes last generation.
Tell that to Best Buy who moneyhats an exclusive for a capture card to be sold only there, or to Target who moneyhat Martha Stewart products. Do you like in the real world?
SEGAvangelist
Member
Absolutely. I like all three of them.
Most people think retail exclusive deals are shitty too. The difference it's easier to look past an exclusive shader for Destiny than the damn game.
D'ultimate
Member
I love how Phil is being drawn across the coals for not looking out for all gamers when his job is to look out for Xbox and it's gamers.
I love how it's Phil's fault, and is the bad guy, when two companies make a decision that two companies agree benefits both companies... a la PS4, Activision, Destiny.
But who here can actually prove that Phil wasn't looking out for all gamers as well as Xbox when he agreed to the deal? Can anyone prove to me that he absolutely could not have locked down TR entirely and not just for a period of time? Can anyone prove that he didn't say "hey, I want PS gamers to also experience TR at some point, I just want Xbox gamers to experience it first"? First class citizens and all that.
I really don't think so.
I love how it's Phil's fault, and is the bad guy, when two companies make a decision that two companies agree benefits both companies... a la PS4, Activision, Destiny.
But who here can actually prove that Phil wasn't looking out for all gamers as well as Xbox when he agreed to the deal? Can anyone prove to me that he absolutely could not have locked down TR entirely and not just for a period of time? Can anyone prove that he didn't say "hey, I want PS gamers to also experience TR at some point, I just want Xbox gamers to experience it first"? First class citizens and all that.
I really don't think so.
Can I simply not like those business strategies and prefer leaders that build talent instead of buy it?
You haven't lost the ability, you'll get it eventually.
They do both. Invest in talent (Ori) and fund proven devs to do better. It must feel good (SE) knowing they dont have to take shortcuts or feel the pressure of having to justify ongoing development because the budget is running low. We really dont know the specifics, MS saved Titanfall when many here assumed it was money hatted, then used that as thier narrative to shit on MS/Respawn.
My point is no matter how unethical, immoral, it is reality in every single industry in the world. Phil is trying to do what's best for Xbox. He signed the TR deal just like Target signs its exclusive deals for the year period. You can't fault him or hate him for it.
Chobel
Member
It's not about morality and guess what, I'm not Phil Spencer nor an MS employee, I'm a consumer, so MS finance are not my concern. And this deal is bad for non-xbox owners because MS removed these people right to play this game at release day on their preferred platform. And FYI, just this is imperfect world doesn't mean shitty actions are somewhat less shitty, and more importantly just because it doesn't affect it somehow them makes OK. So you may call it butthurt, but most people will call it valid criticism.
DudeWithNoName
Member
And who's to say Sony wasn't going to be approached to be the platform with TR exclusive next holiday?
Right, I'm sure if you were Phil Spencer, you would not sign this deal to help Xbox because it is "shitty" when every major company in the world partake in such practices. Phil is not the Pope, he's head of Xbox.
Sure I can. There are other means to competing. Buying things out sucks. It says you can't create your own content. If you could, you wouldn't waste money on buying it since it costs a lot more that way. Why would I want to support a company that buys out content when I can choose another that primarily curates content creators?
Uno Venova
Banned
Hm? I don't see anything wrong with faulting him for making a decision that improves nothing for Xbox gamers and makes the situation worse for other gamers. No matter how many examples of shit deals in the 'real world' people bring up.
Ah, I see. Well no, they're quite obviously not good for gamers. Same goes for exclusives, pre-orders, and all the other shit our industry has to put up with.
But I am talking financially here. It's important to remember that this industry has evolved into something of a behemoth within the entertainment space and buying up exclusives is best for business.
Chobel
Member
PR words and most likely meant optimizing the game in Xbone, no different than Destiny and Diablo 3, SE already have the resources to develop the game so MS money is just a bonus.
Uh? How does it not improve Xbox gamers? The deal makes Xbox more appealing than before with another AAA exclusive especially to those Tomb Raider fans. Also Lara Croft is a recognizable figure so anything beyond an exclusive is just a plus. Maybe the franchise will revive and boom? Who knows?
Then you would not be supporting any company in the world. Near all companies make similar deals such as this.
GillyH. Let's say you are a hard worker. You are the best worker, actually. But at your job, you are paid the same as the lazy employees. You tell your boss that you should make more money than the other lazy employees. He agrees with you. He decides to keep your pay the same and reduce the wages of the lazy employees.
Did your boss operate in a manner to incentivize you to work more? Do you think he can't be judged for his actions because he's just taking care of business?
Did your boss operate in a manner to incentivize you to work more? Do you think he can't be judged for his actions because he's just taking care of business?
fallingdove
Member
Not even remotely the same thing.
But I can choose a competitor that does not do this nearly as much, which was my point.
Chobel
Member
I'm not Phil Spencer, and no, I would not sign that deal if I were him. And If that's a requirement for the job he's holding, I guess I'm never gonna have that job.
Tell that to Apple CEO who is working to get Apple OS in cars and signed deals with Volvo. He will call of the deal in a second! Phil is going to take the higher road and preach Christianity, right.
Can you answer the question?
Your preferred platform? Youve just mentioned it there, youve been sidelined as your needs are not his concern. The boss of Xbox is to make the system attractive and push content for Xbox owners - he's doing just that.
Uno Venova
Banned
I was talking about helping the console owners. An exclusive deal with TR improving the brand is obvious.
I imagine they want to grow their base too. So they should want to appeal to non-owners as well.
Something like Tomb Raider is bound to be over budget and I guarantee you the final product wouldn't have been as good without outside funding. Full levels could have not been in the final product.
Yes despite being a big company there is a point when you draw the line and stop funding a project. Look at all the Disneyland rides that only opened becauelse of a sponsorship deal.
I own all systems and don't see this as a preference. I am just baffled on how nonsensical and moronic it is to crucify Phil for signing a deal that benefits Xbox as someone with a business mindset and with common sense. People really expect Phil to not sign this deal to benefit PS4 and PC gamers and because it is "shitty" practices. Tell that to Nike.
While we're at it lets crucify those who signed on behalf of Tomb Raider for signing the deal. It's all Phil's fault.
Yup. For all we know, this could be the exact same situation as Titanfall.
Chobel
Member
I give up. I tried, but it looks like people only look it from the perspective of executives of their favorite company instead of looking at it from their perspective, as consumers.
It's not, SE was fully capable of doing that themselves. Source: Kagari.
It's not, SE was fully capable of doing that themselves. Source: Kagari.
To me there is a difference between the funny gifs with Kaz's face and the posts about how Phil tweets and is a shining light for the brand.
Uno Venova
Banned
I just find it pretty funny the post you're agreeing with about why it was good to make this deal was clearly sarcastic.
Well the tags and info-graphics already made that crystal clear.
Didn't Sony pay Red Thread Games to keep Dreamfall Chapters a console exclusive for the PS4? It was potentially coming to all systems prior. There could be more to it, but I was a disappointed to hear it. I really enjoyed the original The Longest Journey. http://n4g.com/news/1566916/dreamfall-chapters-no-longer-coming-to-wii-u-or-xbox-one
3rdamention
Member
That's a bit of a stretch to even speculate this. The last Tomb Raider was a breathe of fresh air to the series, without outside funding. Regardless of budget......
How can you even say you guarantee that? Lol
EDIT: Unless this is just more tongue in cheek trolling, ugh.
Chobel
Member
I don't know about "all systems", but I remember it was coming to Wii U.
He can't because he's wrong.
It has been surprising how some people have developed a grudge against Phil over it and not CD/SE. It's not like SE was forced to do it. They agreed to it because they estimated some kind of beneficial gain, which I'm sure we'll eventually hear about (and everyone will say it's PR nonsense because console wars).
Can't blame Phil for taking advantage of an opportunity to the benefit of his platform.
No, it's just I'm a realist and educated and know when I walk into Target, I know which products are exclusive to them. Do I blame Target? No, I acknowledge they are in a business environment and routinely sign deals to benefit them in tough competition with other outlets like Walmart, Kmart, etc. I am not going to say "Shitty!" "This is bad for consumers!" "Why do they do stuff like that!? It's wrong!". If you don't like it, that's fine, don't shop at Xbox, or Target, or Apple, or DELL, so you're a man of your word and try to change the planet but to blame Phil for doing what's best for Xbox, and clearly Xbox is stronger with Tomb Raider.
It really is amazing. I am kind of new here and just don't get it. CD/SE clearly thought they benefit with the deal, so they signed it. They will get more marketing, more development money, etc. They even said they will be able to make a better game because of this deal, but nope, it's shit, and it's all Phil's fault when in reality he is giving them bigger budgets to make a more ambitious game.
soul creator
Member
Tomb Raider was never announced as multiplatform. There were some retailer listings, and the note from Kagari, but Square-Enix never announced any platforms until the Xbox versions
When? SE's statement was so vague and didn't even say specifically what the partnership even meant for the company or the game; is there a clarification anywhere?
Miles Quaritch
Member
Hollow Man, Hollow Words.
He'll just repeat back exactly what you want to hear and never actually deliver on anything.
He'll just repeat back exactly what you want to hear and never actually deliver on anything.
AAA game development is consistently over budget, it being a new series (new engine, assets, etc) just accentuated the spending. Not trolling at all.
Look at Bioshock Infinite, they really were desperate for funding and their own spending made the game nearly possible to recoup its cost.
You don't see it because you own an Xbox so it does not effect you, so it's kind of hard for you to really understand it
My initial post was in response to the assertion that Phil Spencer is all about bringing the best value to customers. My disbelief was that anyone actually believes that, I didn't think it needed explanation... but apparently it did.
Whilst I agree that value is relative, that very Podcast (for those that actually bothered listening to it) makes specific comparison to the PS4 across a number of areas. To talk about value and not consider the competition is disingenous to the topic. I'm not going to make a 'list' or 'comparison chart' but if you look at total cost of ownership, I don't believe there is an argument to say MS is ahead in value. If value happens to also include performance (yes, resolution and framerate - a part of gaming) then MS is certainly behind.
I only mention altruism because there are at least some members here who seem to think that is the driving force for Spencer's actions. Again, baffeling.
matty2Dfraud
Banned
#4ThePlayers