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LTTP Phil Spencer is a cool guy after listening to his Podcast Unlocked interview

VRMN

Member
I only mention altruism because there are at least some members here who seem to think that is the driving force for Spencer's actions. Again, baffeling.

I would hope that few if any members think any of these companies or executives are acting out of any kind of charity.

Their primary responsibility is to their shareholders. Phil Spencer's job is to try and maximize the Xbox division's contribution to Microsoft's bottom line and to their share price. Period.

This is the same with executives at Sony and Nintendo. Their job is to make money for their investors. Where people like Phil, it's because he seems to believe that the gaming side of Xbox is something worth focusing on as opposed to Mattrick who thought the entertainment and casual games (Kinect) was how you got there. That's really the long and short of it.

His policies are still going to focus on trying to increase the market share and profitability of Xbox. The Tomb Raider deal is on that spectrum. He wants people to buy an Xbox One and coercion via exclusives is how that is typically done. The outcry is real, if sometimes a little disingenuous (I think trying to say well, buying exclusivity is okay in X instance, but not in Y instance, is a little bit of hair splitting.)...but Phil, nor any person in his position, is going to care past the point where you buy their box because of what you can play on it.

Altruism and business rarely go together.
 

RE_Player

Member
Came to read people's opinions on Phil Spencer and the Xbox brand and see people still trying to compare the Tomb Raider deal to Bloodborne. I don't want to come off rude but anyone in their right mind could see the deals aren't the same.
 

Palocca

Member
but to blame Phil for doing what's best for Xbox, and clearly Xbox is stronger with Tomb Raider.

I don't particularly blame Phil for making this deal from a business standpoint; I understand why he did it and how it fits into their strategy.

Now, let me preface my opinion by saying that I don't know what the situation looks like at Xbox and, perhaps, Phil could have made the absolute best decision he could have at the time of the deal.

However, I personally think that the money used to close the timed exclusive deal for Tomb Raider could have been put to fund the future Sunset Overdrives and Titanfalls, bolstering their first party lineup. Sure, it's a much higher risk since there's the chance that the product could end up a colossal failure, but at the same time, you could be creating a future staple franchise that generates a much higher profit margin than what a timed exclusivity deal could ever bring in.

I see people in here saying that this Tomb Raider deal is Xbox being aggressive, but I see it as the complete opposite: it's a defensive strategy that's playing it safe.

Now, from a consumer standpoint, you could say whatever you want about how this is the real world we live in and such, but people are still entitled to express their feelings on the subject matter. I know it rubbed me the wrong way when the title was announced as an exclusive (even though I absolutely hated the first game). I don't like to see this practice continue at all; it just comes off as a very artificial way to entice people to buy your product.
 

Sydle

Member
My initial post was in response to the assertion that Phil Spencer is all about bringing the best value to customers. My disbelief was that anyone actually believes that, I didn't think it needed explanation... but apparently it did.

Whilst I agree that value is relative, that very Podcast (for those that actually bothered listening to it) makes specific comparison to the PS4 across a number of areas. To talk about value and not consider the competition is disingenous to the topic. I'm not going to make a 'list' or 'comparison chart' but if you look at total cost of ownership, I don't believe there is an argument to say MS is ahead in value. If value happens to also include performance (yes, resolution and framerate - a part of gaming) then MS is certainly behind.

I only mention altruism because there are at least some members here who seem to think that is the driving force for Spencer's actions. Again, baffeling.

Wut?

The value of a game console to a consumer is going to in proportion to the perceived worth of the games among other factors. There certainly is room for an argument MS could be ahead for some people.
 

Faustek

Member
Came to read people's opinions on Phil Spencer and the Xbox brand and see people still trying to compare the Tomb Raider deal to Bloodborne. I don't want to come off rude but anyone in their right mind could see the deals aren't the same.

Vogue magazine has already determined that stupid is the definite color for winter. So don't be to harsh on people instead blame Vogue.

It's pretty cool that we live in a gaming generation where the top dudes of the major three are all relatable dudes.

Say what you want about Iwata, but he's a relatable dude.

Edit: This really hit me during Giantbomb's table-gathering video things at E3 where they had Shu, Adam Boyes, and Phil Spencer come to their crazy shit-talking Giantbomb get-together.

This probably would have never happened with top dudes last generation.

Kinda true and twilight zone about the whole thing. Cool though. One thing though, screw Iwata. Shibata is where the cream is.
 

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
He's always been good.

He even admitted to being part of the decisions that led to the launch disaster. Hasn't tried to shirk anything. If Microsoft really are planning on staying in gaming for the long haul, the xbox one will have taught them many many many lessons.
 

Llamadeus

Banned
Came to read people's opinions on Phil Spencer and the Xbox brand and see people still trying to compare the Tomb Raider deal to Bloodborne. I don't want to come off rude but anyone in their right mind could see the deals aren't the same.

You're right, its not the same. Microsoft doesn't demand IP ownership when they help fund a game.
 
You're right, its not the same. Microsoft doesn't demand IP ownership when they help fund a game.

They didn't "help fund" the game, they basically created it

Miyazaki:
This project actually started out with the proposal to make something new on new hardware.

4Gamer:
It was SCE that came to you with that proposal?

Miyazaki:
Yes. I think it was around the time that development for Artorias of the Abyss Edition of Dark Souls settled down, and it was still before the initial PS4 announcement, but the idea of working on new hardware was very appealing to us, so we eagerly agreed.
 

Kayant

Member
You're right, its not the same. Microsoft doesn't demand IP ownership when they help fund a game.

What are you on about? TR is owned/published by Square Enix. The game was already being made before MS was in the picture it was still a Multi-plat at E3 before the Gamescom reveal. Also shacklesmcgee's post
 

RE_Player

Member
You're right, its not the same. Microsoft doesn't demand IP ownership when they help fund a game.
I'm not saying one deal is better than the other. They are two seperate deals, developed with different mentalities and under different circumstances.

You come off as a child.
 

Faustek

Member
Experience in the real world with a job? You do what your boss tells you, you certainly don't quit over DRM or a $150 microphone.

Well, maybe some of you guys would. Honor and Shame are big parts of it I hear.

True enough. In the end everyone is someone's subordinate and has to do what you're told even if you find it stupid.
Well at least Spencer seems way better than Mattrick and Mattrick seemed way better than Moore.

Edit: should clarify that I know that Moore has nothing to do with this but he is still the biggest &£%£-#-# and makes everyone else look less worse.


Microsoft doesn't own Tomb Raider. Or Sunset Overdrive. They do own Quantum Break, which is a little weird.

Yepp, the SO thing was great to hear about did not expect that in this day and age. BTW I hope you see why I wrote what I wrote
 

rrc1594

Member
Microsoft doesn't own Tomb Raider. Or Sunset Overdrive. They do own Quantum Break, which is a little weird.

No really after AW bombed. It took five years for AW to come out, and then it didn't sell well.MS probably ask to for IP if they wanted next project to be funded.
 

Conduit

Banned
Thats really what it is. Its a business. You are acting like they legitimately fucked you over. Microsoft makes deals, Sony makes deals, Nintendo makes deals. Can I be pissed at Sony for funding Bloodborne because I dont have a PS4 yet?

Wait, what???? Bloodborne wouldn't exist without Sony. Didn't Sony came to Miyazaki asking to make Bloodborne? I can't believe that some members here still think that Bloodborne and Tomb Raider situation are the same. BUT IT'S NOT!! There was much debate here :

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=872876

Well, you can compare Bloodborne with Bayonetta 2. These 2 games wouldn't exist without help. Tomb Raider, well, would come for Xbone anyway and it was already in production, but MS had chosen other way. They pissed people who playing games on other platforms.

Shu : I hope the game will come out eventually on PS4. But how can I tell? Other than that cryptic message by Phil Spencer,
 
Phil has a job to do. And its to play nice with the internet crowd.

If you have only a PS4. Just wait the six months until Tomb comes out. Its not like they completely locked out a fan base from the game.
 

Faustek

Member
No really after AW bombed. It took five years for AW to come out, and then it didn't sell well.MS probably ask to for IP if they wanted next project to be funded.

Wait? Did it really bomb? Even considering Steam? I have this feeling that someone who knew shit said it did well there :(
 

Llamadeus

Banned
I'm sorry for derailing the conversation. I should have expected this type of knee-jerk reaction from my snarky comment. For the record I don't care about Bloodborne, Dark Souls, or Microsoft.

They didn't "help fund" the game, they basically created it

From Software is not creating this game exclusively for Sony out of the kindness of their hearts. Money exchanged hands, therefore Sony is funding development. Bloodborne will also indirectly delay or impact the development of Dark Souls 3, which directly affects Xbox and PC gamers.

You are right, MS don't make IPs they buy them.

Poofling.webm

You can insult Microsoft all you want, it doesn't matter to me, but you shouldn't have to resort to twisting facts just to shame someone on the internet.

What are you on about? TR is owned/published by Square Enix. The game was already being made before MS was in the picture it was still a Multi-plat at E3 before the Gamescom reveal. Also shacklesmcgee's post

As far as I'm aware the game is still going to be multiplatform, right? Microsoft is just paying to have it first on Xbox. Unless Microsoft is paying Square-Enix with coke and hookers, then I'm going to assume (because I'm not a lawyer, nor employee at either of the two companies) that the money Microsoft is providing is going to help offset the investment that Square-Enix has made or will make on Rise of the Tomb Raider.

If Microsoft had gone to Square-Enix/Crystal Dynamics and asked them to make a game called Crypt Looter and it impacted the development of Rise of the Tomb Raider in anyway, the outcry would have been just as bad.

I'm not saying one deal is better than the other. They are two seperate deals, developed with different mentalities and under different circumstances.

You come off as a child.

It seems like we agree for the most part, there shouldn't be any need for name calling. I'm sorry if you felt like I was targeting you in anyway.
 

Abdiel

Member
Speaking purely from a retail perspective here:

Why the fuck are some of the posters in here defending MS's choices regarding Tomb Raider? "Just business" shouldn't mean jack shit to you, you're not MS. And deals like that one fuck over consumers, clear cut. It creates an illusion of 'value' that is non-existent. And believe me, I know about bullshit claims of value, we have vendor reps that come in peddling a particular set of lines to try and sway customers. But seeing people willing do that job for them, and not even being paid to do so, is really sad.

I'm not defending any such deals or practices by anyone, Sony, MS, whoever, but the leaps of mental gymnastics in here to justify things for a monolithic corporation boggles my mind. The first, and foremost thought on any of your minds should be your consumer gain. Not defending with throwaway "Just business" crap. Because it is crap. When Best Buy changed from a 30 day return policy to a 15 day one, I really had hoped that the customer outcry would force them back, because the only winners were Best Buy, and even then, it came at the cost of customer good will.
 
What about Sunset Overdrive?

I was just guessing that the poster was referencing SO since Insomniac still owns the IP for it (despite MS funding it partially? Not sure at all about the specifics there). I just think I remember reading about how Insomniac were happy to have ownership over the IP and that Microsoft allowed it.

I dunno, in the end it resulted in what looks to be a cool game. Much in the same way with Bloodborne, etc. Still not sure what the poster meant, though it looked like fine shitposting.

From Software is not creating this game exclusively for Sony out of the kindness of their hearts. Money exchanged hands, therefore Sony is funding development. Bloodborne will also indirectly delay or impact the development of Dark Souls 3, which directly affects Xbox and PC gamers.

Isn't Sony actually co-developing the game? Sony Japan is featured pretty clearly in every trailer.

But really, it's such a huge stretch to say that the Bloodborne situation is the same thing as the TR one. At this point it's been beaten to death, so whatever.
 

Conduit

Banned
From Software is not creating this game exclusively for Sony out of the kindness of their hearts. Money exchanged hands, therefore Sony is funding development. Bloodborne will also indirectly delay or impact the development of Dark Souls 3, which directly affects Xbox and PC gamers.

Team B made Dark Souls 2, man. So, they can make Dark Souls 3. And i don't see any delay which affects Xbone and PC gamers. Bloodborne has nothing to do with Dark Souls 3 development.
 

iMax

Member
Speaking purely from a retail perspective here:

Why the fuck are some of the posters in here defending MS's choices regarding Tomb Raider? "Just business" shouldn't mean jack shit to you, you're not MS. And deals like that one fuck over consumers, clear cut. It creates an illusion of 'value' that is non-existent. And believe me, I know about bullshit claims of value, we have vendor reps that come in peddling a particular set of lines to try and sway customers. But seeing people willing do that job for them, and not even being paid to do so, is really sad.

I'm not defending any such deals or practices by anyone, Sony, MS, whoever, but the leaps of mental gymnastics in here to justify things for a monolithic corporation boggles my mind. The first, and foremost thought on any of your minds should be your consumer gain. Not defending with throwaway "Just business" crap. Because it is crap. When Best Buy changed from a 30 day return policy to a 15 day one, I really had hoped that the customer outcry would force them back, because the only winners were Best Buy, and even then, it came at the cost of customer good will.

Because this thread is about Phil Spencer and if he's doing his job well. And considering Microsoft's number one priority is its shareholders, "just business" is all that matters.
 
I was just guessing that the poster was referencing SO since Insomniac still owns the IP for it (despite MS funding it partially? Not sure at all about the specifics there). I just think I remember reading about how Insomniac were happy to have ownership over the IP and that Microsoft allowed it.

I dunno, in the end it resulted in what looks to be a cool game. Much in the same way with Bloodborne, etc. Still not sure what the poster meant, though it looked like fine shitposting.

Phil Spencer said that they are looking to own everything for first party, but they will make exceptions, just like for Sunset Overdrive. Insomniac tweeted this at someone, so I believe Microsoft funded it fully.
@iRepWHODEY Microsoft funded and published the game, believing in it from the beginning
 

Chobel

Member
But they don't own Tomb Raider.

Or Sunset Overdrive.
Or Ryse.
Or Alan Wake.
Or Dead Rising.
Or Scalebound.
Or D4.

Sony owns every IP they shop out, as far as I know.

Didn't Phil say that MS will own every game they fund from now on and all these are exceptions? I can't find the tweet right now, but I'm pretty sure he said something like that.

EDIT: The tweet is in post #429, thanks TheUnsunghero26.
 
Well I'm sure we wouldn't have ever gotten another Tomb Raider game if it wasn't for MS, due to the previous game underselling so badly. So it's a little different from Bloodborn which would have been on every system of it hadn't been for Sony. It's more like Bayonetta 2 if you think about it.
 

Heigic

Member
Sure they could have spent the money on new IP or whatever but that would be 2-3 years away. They wanted another game for Holiday 2015 an d the TR deal was the only way they could do that. I still get to play the game in 6 months on PC so the deal doesn't particularity bother me. I also think the deal was smart from SE as they would be competing with Uncharted on PS4. Instead they get to release the game in 6 months time when there is less competition, and I think the game well sell better because of that.
 
Well I'm sure we wouldn't have ever gotten another Tomb Raider game if it wasn't for MS, due to the previous game underselling so badly. So it's a little different from Bloodborn which would have been on every system of it hadn't been for Sony. It's more like Bayonetta 2 if you think about it.
You are very silly.
 
Well I'm sure we wouldn't have ever gotten another Tomb Raider game if it wasn't for MS, due to the previous game underselling so badly. So it's a little different from Bloodborn which would have been on every system of it hadn't been for Sony. It's more like Bayonetta 2 if you think about it.

Can't tell if serious...
 

Hyunashi

Member
Right. Dude is just saying the right stuff to keep the people happy. Still money-hatted Tomb Raider, so my opinion of him wont change.
 

Chobel

Member
Sure they could have spent the money on new IP or whatever but that would be 2-3 years away. They wanted another game for Holiday 2015 an d the TR deal was the only way they could do that. I still get to play the game in 6 months on PC so the deal doesn't particularity bother me. I also think the deal was smart from SE as they would be competing with Uncharted on PS4. Instead they get to release the game in 6 months time when there is less competition, and I think the game well sell better because of that.

Delayed ports don't sell well and we've seen it in many games lately, because most of the sales are front loaded when there's buzz and advertisement. And I really doubt SE or Sony are going to bother launching a big advertisement campaign for the delayed port of PS4, so expect PS4 sales to be really bad (for big title like RoTR).
 

Mr Git

Member
I'm not convinced, although I am cynical. He's certainly better than Mattrick and he's quite obviously an actual player of games, which resonates with the audience for good reason. He does interview well, but when he does public releases (the shite Tomb Raider deal being the worst offender) his language is still mostly painful PR and business wankery. I dunno, I find his charismatic gamer image to be a bit of a façade, those games T shirts at E3 illuminating that in a cringe-worthy fashion. Microsoft needed a new image and a new face after a swathe of negativity, and he is that face. Shall have to see, I suppose.

Regarding Shu, I think people generally find him likeable because he's quite.. human. He makes mistakes and nods off in public, things you wouldn't normally see in an exec or squeaky clean PR person. Well, not the nodding off.
 

Hubble

Member
I don't particularly blame Phil for making this deal from a business standpoint; I understand why he did it and how it fits into their strategy.

Now, let me preface my opinion by saying that I don't know what the situation looks like at Xbox and, perhaps, Phil could have made the absolute best decision he could have at the time of the deal.

However, I personally think that the money used to close the timed exclusive deal for Tomb Raider could have been put to fund the future Sunset Overdrives and Titanfalls, bolstering their first party lineup. Sure, it's a much higher risk since there's the chance that the product could end up a colossal failure, but at the same time, you could be creating a future staple franchise that generates a much higher profit margin than what a timed exclusivity deal could ever bring in.

I see people in here saying that this Tomb Raider deal is Xbox being aggressive, but I see it as the complete opposite: it's a defensive strategy that's playing it safe.

Now, from a consumer standpoint, you could say whatever you want about how this is the real world we live in and such, but people are still entitled to express their feelings on the subject matter. I know it rubbed me the wrong way when the title was announced as an exclusive (even though I absolutely hated the first game). I don't like to see this practice continue at all; it just comes off as a very artificial way to entice people to buy your product.

Wow, grabbing a marquee third party title as an exclusive isn't aggressive but safe? What world do you live in? There have not been many third party exclusive deals and this is one of them. It's pretty damn aggressive and hard to do. What more do you want? Him to buy exclusivity for Grand Theft Auto 6 or of Call of Duty? There is only so much he can do especially with a third party, where more parties make contracts difficult.

You do realize he had a hand in the TitanFall and Sunset Overdrive deals, right? Those were bold moves. He greenlighted Forza Horizon 2, D4, etc. Don't think Tomb Raider is the only thing on the horizon. He is working on other deals as opportunities arise. SO hasn't even launched, and TitanFall is still getting updates. It's way too early to talk about sequels to those titles but don't be surprised of future announcements next year. Right now, it's about the holiday season but as of now, he's done some good stuff for Xbox.
 

FordGTGuy

Banned
Then let's be serious. He doesn't care about gamers. He cares about XBox Consumers but the deal secured a game the XB1 was already getting. How is that a benefit?

More Exclusives = More Sales.

More Sales = More Support.

More Support = More Games.

This is a benefit to those who own the Xbox One console.
 
I think Phil Spencer is doing a great job saving the Xbox brand after last year. He gave some great insights in that podcast. Very respectable guy, just like Yoshida on the Sony side.
 
Speaking purely from a retail perspective here:

Why the fuck are some of the posters in here defending MS's choices regarding Tomb Raider? "Just business" shouldn't mean jack shit to you, you're not MS. And deals like that one fuck over consumers, clear cut. It creates an illusion of 'value' that is non-existent. And believe me, I know about bullshit claims of value, we have vendor reps that come in peddling a particular set of lines to try and sway customers. But seeing people willing do that job for them, and not even being paid to do so, is really sad.

I'm not defending any such deals or practices by anyone, Sony, MS, whoever, but the leaps of mental gymnastics in here to justify things for a monolithic corporation boggles my mind. The first, and foremost thought on any of your minds should be your consumer gain. Not defending with throwaway "Just business" crap. Because it is crap. When Best Buy changed from a 30 day return policy to a 15 day one, I really had hoped that the customer outcry would force them back, because the only winners were Best Buy, and even then, it came at the cost of customer good will.

If I have an Xbox 1 and I can play Tomb raider why should I care about people who don't have an X1 and can't play Tomb Raider?
 
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