-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
LTTP(?): Shadow the Hedgehog
- Thread starter Boogiepop
- Start date
Arc Christelle
Member
I've been saying Shadow was worse that 06 for the longest. And people swear that the glitches is 06 automatically makes it a worse game. Both were bad, but Shadow is King Shit of the Shit Kingdom. That internet stage was indeed the worse shit ever.
You take that damn candy Shadow... take that damn candy.
You take that damn candy Shadow... take that damn candy.
AzureTranquility95
Banned
Yet another month passes and another shalt discover
A sonic game he left behind, what will he uncover?
The dark past of the hedgehog series, this is true
a product of an age that fans do so rue
guns a plenty this game does have
every time he says "damn", one can't help but laugh
flawed level design and conceptually mistaken
you have to wonder the direction this could have taken
multiple paths an interesting concept it proves
a shame that it had to be in a game with soapy moves
enemies with health bars so high
that the homing attack may as well be rendered nigh
A sonic game he left behind, what will he uncover?
The dark past of the hedgehog series, this is true
a product of an age that fans do so rue
guns a plenty this game does have
every time he says "damn", one can't help but laugh
flawed level design and conceptually mistaken
you have to wonder the direction this could have taken
multiple paths an interesting concept it proves
a shame that it had to be in a game with soapy moves
enemies with health bars so high
that the homing attack may as well be rendered nigh
Best of all
To make this game done
all ten paths
complete you must do
only then
can you call it quits
To make this game done
all ten paths
complete you must do
only then
can you call it quits
AzureTranquility95
Banned
Digital Circuit is actually not bad at all.
Mad Matrix can be pretty terrible if you're doing the dark mission, though the hero and neutral missions can drag as well.
Hardly the worst levels in the game though. No, the medal for that title goes to Lost Impact, The Doom, Central City to an extent, and every mission that requires an exact number of things (Which accounts for... a huge chunk of missions, unfortunately).
You still have decent levels like the aforementioned Digital Circuit, Sky Troops, Iron Jungle, Lava Shelter (Best music track in a game full of unmemorable music... odd for a Sonic game, bad or good), Circus Park, and Space Gadget just to name a few examples.
If a level has a goal ring mission, one can just do that and it simplifies some of the annoyance the game presents with its other non-goal ring missions. The neutral path is the best path since all you really need to worry about is get to the goal ring, up until Lava Shelter which also has a goal ring mission (I think it's the dark mission?).
Granted, I've been playing Sonic 06 a bit lately, and I dunno if the PS3 version may have received a small touch-up, but in some ways it's indeed not as bad as Shadow. Granted, Sonic 06 of course suffers from many flaws, but there's a few elements it does better than Shadow. Better soundtrack, for one.
That stage was pretty fun.
Also Sonic heroes is king of shit mountain.
Wait sonic boom ryse of lyric. But thats like the secret actual final boss of shit mountain.
This game is on the mountain where most sonic games lived, where its just kinda eh and could have been a thing, but there was a lack of effort. And decent ideas. Like one day I need just make a " what the hell was wrong with shadow the hedgehog the game thread"
What upsets me the most about this game is, story wise. There is no point to all the under endings.
Spoiler, the ending implies you were a good guy the entire time.
AzureTranquility95
Banned
This statement only really applies to the PS2 version. The GCN and Xbox versions present an actually decent game that, while a bit of a downgrade from the Adventure titles due to a lack of certain key features, still proves to be a fun enough time. It does get repetitive having to do the same story 4 times. If there was an option to just complete one team (Maybe even just Sonic & Chaotix due to Chaotix offering different gameplay compared to the other 3 teams) to get to the Last Story, there would probaly be far less complaining with regards to actually *beating* the game.
Special stages control like ass, but you only have to complete 7 of them, and with 4 stories, you get plenty of chances.
I've never played the PS2 version, but based on testimony from those who played it, reviews, and other factors, it's definitely nowhere near GCN or Xbox. So I have to assume that whenever someone tries to claim Heroes is worse than the likes of Shadow and Sonic 06, it's because they just so happened to play the worst version, which doesn't represent the full quality of the game. The PS2 version apparently sold ridiculously high, so it's gotten plenty of exposure, but then so has the GameCube version.
Sunnington
Banned
Shadow>Heroes>SA1>SA2. They were at least getting closer and closer to a Sonic game. If you played the neutral path, it was basically just platforming and running through a track. Less BS combat than Heroes and alternative crap playstyles. I was rather intoxicated when I played this game and it wasn't bad at the time. I played it a few months back and it was much worse than I remembered.
The controls weren't bad like the OP suggests, but the guns felt so weak to use. Enemies were boring HP sponges. If you tried to just repeat homing attack eventually the homing attack would lose track of the target and you'd go flying off the course.
The controls weren't bad like the OP suggests, but the guns felt so weak to use. Enemies were boring HP sponges. If you tried to just repeat homing attack eventually the homing attack would lose track of the target and you'd go flying off the course.
The controls are complete ass. Shadow is fast, but controls sluggish. So by the time you go to dodge something it's already hit you, and the next thing is coming for you. I can't really describe what it is, but slippery isn't the right word. He's just all over the level and you never feel 100% in control.
Unless there's significant lag introduced by the Wii U pro controller in nintendont then I'm forced to disagree with you.
Bravo!
AzureTranquility95
Banned
The soapy controls problem is circumvented by not rushing around. Take your time and use jumps for balance and it's more tolerable.
Though this goes against the mantra of Sonic games.
Thanks. I am very insecure about stuff made from myself.
Though this goes against the mantra of Sonic games.
Thanks. I am very insecure about stuff made from myself.
Arc Christelle
Member
You know what, the Black Comet stages were pretty unbearable in contrast, along with that chemical plant. I think it's the repetition of constantly replaying Digital Circuit and Mad Matrix that made me hate those stages the most.
lmao Sonic Heroes is far from King despite how much work it needed. But you had me loling at the Final Boss. Rise of Lyric is like the hidden ancient Deity of Shit Mountain, Poogaga Almighty.
I think I could forgive Shadow and Sonic Heroes if the Light Dash was atleast functional.
This game.
I think this hurt more than Sonic 06 for me, if only because it destroyed my favourite character of the franchise at the time.
My first ever Sonic game was Heroes,and I loved it as a kid. However I found Sonic more annoying and gravitated towards Shadow. Then when I went back and played SA2, his story was the first time a video game truly touched me.
Then this game happened, and not only was it terrible but it ruined the character. As someone who still holds a degree of fondness for Shadow, this game is really hard to swallow.
I think this hurt more than Sonic 06 for me, if only because it destroyed my favourite character of the franchise at the time.
My first ever Sonic game was Heroes,and I loved it as a kid. However I found Sonic more annoying and gravitated towards Shadow. Then when I went back and played SA2, his story was the first time a video game truly touched me.
Then this game happened, and not only was it terrible but it ruined the character. As someone who still holds a degree of fondness for Shadow, this game is really hard to swallow.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
All hail Shadow!
Professor Beef
Banned
NeoGAF Member Village is a Shadow fan, ignore him saying that Heroes was the worst.
HEROES RISE AGAIN
HEROES RISE AGAIN
Arc Christelle
Member
Damn lol. I love Shadow too, but I'm not going that far. Shadow does indeed get the Shit King Trophy.
Heroes can get the Shit Bishop position. and 06 and Dark Knight can be the dreaded Knights of Shitopia.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Obliterating everything that's not your friend~!
You know what? I think Shadow, Blackwargreymon, and MewTwo should get together to form a band/movie/video game.
EDIT: Hell, throw in the Green Ranger while you're at it.
I'm okay with this.
Black Knight is something special what with (ending spoilers. I guess)
SONIC IS FUCKING KING ARTHUR
Piston Hyundai
Member
anyone who came out of sonic heroes going "yeah I want some more sonic games" deserved this game
NotDreamcast
Member
Something about hearing Sonic say "damn" in this game really bothered me when I was kid. lol.
AzureTranquility95
Banned
This is a reasonable complaint. The Paper Mario RPGs are some of my favorite video games of all time. I'd hate them
temporarily anyway
Ugh. Now THIS is a 100% legit complaint in both games. Shadow gets the edge because it fails even worse.
Sonic Heroes pretty much killed me pre-ordering games. I really don't know what I was thinking.
AzureTranquility95
Banned
It was clearly a game made for the fans... just not the right ones.
Arc Christelle
Member
Like it blows my mind how they got it right with SA2, and from there on, it was downhill.
It kinda returned back to form with Unleashed, but now it's limited [like Wall Jump] in Generations.
BumblebeeCody
Member
Arc Christelle
Member
Doesn't that shit move like below 30fps on PS2?
AzureTranquility95
Banned
My thoughts exactly. The Adventure games weren't perfect, but they did many things right that some entries just shat the bed on. This of course started getting with Unleashed since that was when the Sonic series finally started to return to at least being decent, then there was the avalanche of Colors and Generations of course.
Handheld Sonic was never really bad outside of the GBA port of Sonic 1 and Sonic Chronicles to an extent, it just ended too soon and eventually it just became sloppy downports of the console games. We will never get a proper Sonic Rush 3 or Sonic Advance 4 and it sucks, but what's already there on the original sonic handheld roster is great.
Mango The Magician
Banned
Just in terms of how it turned out, this is the worst Sonic game in my opinion. I liked some of the controls though.
AzureTranquility95
Banned
At least Shadow isn't technically part of the mainline, so it can safely be skipped.
You are not spared from Sonic 06 however. One bad thing Generations did was making that game canon and part of the mainline. Alas.
You are not spared from Sonic 06 however. One bad thing Generations did was making that game canon and part of the mainline. Alas.
Oh god, I completely forgot about that. Shadow the Hedgehog really is an anomaly. After Sonic Heroes went back on the edgy government conspiracy story lines this game comes along and feels like a straight up parody. I have no idea how Sega ever thought it would be well received.
My favourite part is when he straight up murders Eggman
Or this picture on the president's desk
Put me in this camp. There's plenty I like in Sonic Heroes. It's at least a better game than SA2, despite having less reliable controls. Shadow is just all the shit from SA2 but combined with the flaws of Sonic Heroes like the horrid handling and enemies with huge life bars that take a fucking eternity to kill.
Arc Christelle
Member
This my friend, is where our opinions split.
How did you come to that? Shadow's basically one third of Heroes with the addition of "Gunplay" Gameplay.
Well...this is already a longer explanation that I was prepared to write. And it's mostly shit that only I at age 13 would care about. Okay let's do this
The thing I disliked about Sonic games when I was younger is how they shifted away from their colourful lighthearted nature and turned into games with dull visuals and try hard non-engaging stories as well as levels becoming less linear and more about aimlessly wandering with multiple gameplay styles. I'm a fan of the first Sonic Adventure (but that's another topic) but I hated Sonic Adventure 2 for the above reasons.
I liked Heroes because it dialled back on that crap, had the most appealing and fitting visuals the series had seen in a long time and brought back Team Chaotix and Metal Sonic, as well as having goofy Eggman robots as enemies instead of having human presidents, soldiers and military mechas as villains. Plus I liked the team-based mechanic and the change-on-the-fly way it worked as well as the characters moving at similar speeds made me prefer this to the multiple characters of SA2. The sloppy controls were also somewhat more tolerable (than Shadow) because you had fly formation. I'll admit that as the game went on, it got worse, to the point where it was just groan inducing when you get to a locked room and more armoured enemies with a shit tonne of health appear. But closer to the start it was decent, and the visuals and tone I feel a Sonic game should have were present for the whole thing. While the bosses were terrible for the most part, I liked the final boss because it put the team mechanics to use instead of being a barely controllable frustrating mess like Sonic Adventure 2's.
Bottom line here is that Heroes is a flawed game, but its flaws aren't part of what led to Sonic 06. The team thing was one-time, and a consistent mechanic throughout the game. I've always thought if the controls were more reliable, the level-up stuff was gone (or at the very least didn't reset when you died) and the mechanics were put to better use than just button mashing to kill powerful foes, it could have been a great game. Definitely not what I want out of the Sonic franchise, but good regardless. And I'll admit that my fondness is largely an aesthetics thing. I suppose Heroes and SA2 are both similar. But I just found myself enjoying Heroes more for whatever reason. Couldn't name an SA2 stage I found fun except for City Escape.
Then you have Shadow the Hedgehog. Gone are the nice visuals, back is the terrible story, military stuff and aimless wandering (in full fucking force in stages like The Doom) but joining them are the slippery controls of Sonic Heroes and the enemies with huge life bars that take forever to kill as well as the Heroes-inherited "do fucking everything to get the final boss" thing. But there's a lengthy 2 year old OP documenting this game. Point I'm making is that I just see it as a "worst-of" of both its predecessors.
Arc Christelle
Member
I did a quick skim, but I'm going to put it like this. Heroes/Shadow/06 made sure I would never value story and visuals over gameplay again. In terms of Gameplay, SA2 was king of 3D until Unleashed.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
i'm sorry that you guys couldn't appreciate a sonic game with a deep and serious plot for mature adults like myself
I genuinely think the multiple path thing for repeat playthroughs would be a really cool idea in a Sonic game that wasn't total shit and liked the circus zone music tho.
Arc Christelle
Member
I'll take the 3 way story split [Hero,Dark,Last] over that shit Shadow and Heroes did any day.
I don't want to play the same stages until I throw up. Unless that game's amazing.
I've never particularly cared for story, but I do value aesthetic approach. Especially in a series that was so good for it in the past before it went 3D. Chances are if Heroes looked like SA2, I'd like them both about the same because neither are very remarkable gameplay-wise.
Wait so you don't know how a game you never played could be worse than the game you have played? Also Sonic 06 is a broken pile of f****** trash so that is generally why it's considered worse than Shadow the Hedgehog which while not great is mostly technically sort of functional.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
A game like S3&K where every level has a ton of different paths would benefit from a system where repeat playthroughs could take you down an alternate level order determined by how/where you finish levels.
... It obviously doesn't work when the levels are linear and/or the game's a broken piece of crap, and Heroes essentially just lazily forced you to replay the same exact levels in the same order four times in a row, with slightly different enemy placements.
Arc Christelle
Member
I wouldn't mind that, Generations scale Level Design with unique paths and unique character abilities is exactly something I'd want.
I've not played it, but I believe the fan made Streets of Rage remake is like this. I know of one instance where you can go upstairs in SoR2's bar, which leads to a stage on the rooftops. A game with Sonic 3's level design could pull this off too, I think. Shadow's way of going about it was "collect all the things to not go to the terrible Space level".
Arc Christelle
Member
dont get me wrong, all 3 are awful. but the tonal shift of Shadow rubbed me up more than the un-sonic like gameplay from boom.
Boom is definitely worse but also more easily swept under the rug because it was a shitty tie-in to a cartoon.