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LTTP: Splinter Cell: BLACKLIST - aka Splinter Cell Conviction Theory

DOWN

Banned
Spinter-Cell-Blacklist-5.jpg


TLDR at the bottom.

I bought this for $10 in April (a sad price for such a young new AAA on console). Having played Chaos Theory, Double Agent (360), and Conviction, I feel like I have a sense of the different identities the series has aimed for.

By far, I would say Chaos Theory seemed to fit the ultimate anti-terrorism spy premise. The locations were top notch, Sam was dark and had a precise way of muscling through the environments and enemies. It felt like the real push that a spy might have, rather than the fantasy of James Bond charisma or the free wheeling action spy of Bourne or Mission Impossible. A very Tom Clancy take on spy gameplay. I can see why it's atop many people's lists for best stealth title ever. And my did I love the co-op, thanks in part to G4TV.

Next we had Double Agent (I know many enjoyed the different Xbox/Wii version more than the 360 version, but I only played on 360). While the opening in the icy north was thrilling, and it certainly still tried to keep some of Sam's deliberate muscle, there seemed to be a little more movie fantasy in it with the secret prison double agent plot. It didn't play as smoothly as Chaos Theory in my mind. Maybe due to it being a little rough for what I expected of the new HD gen. It wasn't bad, and certainly didn't turn me off the series, but it wasn't a favorite.

Then we got that bizarre hobo Sam reveal. It looked like Bourne in DC. It was going to have little to no official gear, instead relying on world objects to get through the ambitious crowds and interactive environments. That didn't work behind closed doors, and the project saw delays as it became the Conviction release as we know it.

Upon release, Conviction was a streamlined stealth-action spy story. The plot was fast, a bit over the top
thanks to a wild bit of murder at the Lincoln memorial and a meltdown of DC surrounding the White House
. Sam was not quite his old official spy self and he had a whole lot of revenge in mind. While I enjoyed the game and was more on board with Sam than before, it wasn't much of a spy game. This was much more of a political action thriller. It threw all the elements of upper echelon corruption and conspiracy at full force. This pushed forward a panther fast Sam who was encouraged to quickly move around, take down enemies, and infamously, mark and execute at the push of a button. It certainly was the slicker, next gen production I expected, but it didn't top the the calculated power of Chaos Theory for me either.

And here's where the ambitious Blacklist comes in. Taking the high production values that worked for players in Conviction, but the more traditionally Tom Clancy plot of an American field spy intervening in terrorist activity, it looked to take Splinter Cell's golden Chaos Theory heart into the AAA realm in truer form than ever before.

Back in his spy gear and goggles for this entry, Sam also has a military crew of old and new experts on board their plane HQ. Perhaps one of the most pleasing showings of the team's aspirations, the HQ is a bold, but not fantastical version of what might be useful for operating as America's best secret intelligence sector. Rather than a strict split between missions using cutscenes and menus, Blacklist features the Paladin airplane as a hub for upgrading Sam's gear, the plane itself, taking on a variety of co-op ready missions, and catching up with characters
like the returning Grim
and Sam's old friends,
Vick and his daughter
. It feels Normandy inspired and has a surprisingly good set of dialogue transitions for conversations. None of the awkwardly generic "I should go" type of lines that most optional NPC talks have in games. Instead were pleasantly believable catch-ups and banter with plentifully human animations as the characters leave each other to continue about their work. The plane is a decently engaging hub with brief, but pleasing character dialogue between missions.

The campaign itself is where the return to form really shines, but let's get the game's biggest downer out of the way first. No, Sam doesn't sound much like Sam anymore. Couldn't they have even got a similarly toned voice over this young man's voice? (Would you replace Morgan Freeman in Se7en with Nick Cannon?) It's not that this guy is bad at all. He flows fine with the team and I suspect newcomers will be engaged, but there's a number of moment's for anyone familiar with Sam's age and voice that will be a bit jarring. On from there, the campaign is a strong, military spy run. The terrorism stays mostly in the realm of relevant and plausible, letting you focus on the steady shadowplay.

The game feels tailored back toward the notion of letting gadgets engage or going entirely unseen. The highest scores go for undisturbed enemies, followed by unaware enemy takedowns. I'd say this is the first time I felt both enticed into the patient process of learning enemy patterns every time in order to without disturbing anyone, but also liberated by the smoothness of movement from Conviction. Sam is still quick and can strike fast, but now more than ever, they've made it cool to use wit instead.

There's not a whole lot to more to say without spoiling it. The game simply does a good job reeling in it's Chaos Theory success. Does it usurp Chaos Theory as some say? Not for me, no. But it's uplifting to see how easily it swiped second place for me.

The real concern is that it is part of the unforeseen cratering last gen sales in the time following the announcement of the current consoles. The game seems like it was likely the most expensive in the series to produce, with its plethora of content outside the main campaign, including the return of both the co-op and Spies v Mercenaries modes, and motion captured cast. So could it's disappointing sales mean another reboot or the shuttering of the series like it's Prince of Persia Ubisoft brother? Perhaps Prince of Persia is taking an extended break like Rainbow Six and will re-emerge in the not-so-distant future?



TLDR: I can't help but feel bad for the studio with how much it looked like they really did their best to do the series justice, received critical success, and then lost ground when it came to getting it in the hands of players.

So, who else gave this one a shot? What do Chaos Theory fans think of it? I thought it was an ideal blend of Conviction's modern speed and the Tom Clancy core of Chaos Theory, landing it in a strong second place for me in the franchise.
 
This is my first and only entry into the Splinter Cell franchise. The gameplay, music, and story all kept me engaged from beginning to end. I absolutely loved it. Graphics seemed a bit sub-standard though.

Despite that, I can't wait to see what Ubisoft Toronto has in store for PS4/Xbox One. They're working on another one, if I remember correctly.
 

DrBo42

Member
Great game and a proper return to most of the roots of the series. Sad it didn't get the sales it deserved.
 

ZeroX03

Banned
I ended up getting this for free from a graphics card promo or something, but it was pretty fantastic. Held my attention until the end and really enjoyed playing.
 
I thought it was an ideal blend of Conviction's modern speed and the Tom Clancy core of Chaos Theory, landing it in a strong second place for me in the franchise.
Exactly the same for me as well, still wish it had Michael Ironside though, and could definitely do without that weird FPS level, although I suppose it did do a good job of making you feel less skilled than Sam.

Can't wait for the next Splinter Cell title, I really regret not having played Blacklist sooner.
 
But most didn't care enough or no at all.

This is the best match of old and new the team could make and it ends up feeling wholesome. There's not most i could point out that i wish they brought back from Chaos Theory and not a thing it wasn't fixed from Conviction.

In relation to what the OP said about the Sam character. Think that the old Sam was changed earlier with Chaos Theory, from there the character was brought closer to the hollywood type of spy instead of Double Agent or Conviction.

Another thing the game doesn't get enough credit for is the IMMENSELY amount of content, it's downright overwhelming and it has a fantastic integration of social features.

Played the PC version first, then Wii U version later. Ended up liking the Wii U version due to the Gamepad even thought (objectivly speaking) is the technically worst version of them all.
 

KorrZ

Member
Great game, I really enjoyed this and surprisingly spent quite a few hours in the "horde" mode with a friend of mine. It is a shame that this game didn't do very well. I know Conviction must have left a bad taste in people's mouths for Splinter Cell but they really did create the perfect blend of Stealth/Action in this game.

I would definitely recommend picking it up on sale or something just to check it out if you passed on it last year.
 

prag16

Banned
#2 on my 2013 GoTY list. It's a damn shame more people didn't play it.

And I disagree that the Wii U version was objectively the worst. For me it shits all over the PS3 version (only other one I've seen) in small part due to gamepad stuff, but mostly due to the lack of screen tearing. The tearing in the PS3 (and 360 if I recall) version is just hideous.

In feel like they really nailed the stealth mechanics, and the missions were varies and interesting enough to keep things engaging. Loved this game. I'm due for another playthrough.
 
Blacklist was a good game, and a return to form for the series of sorts. It was basically a mashup of all the coolest features from all of the splinter cell games, but it kept stealth at the core like the old games.

Graphics were actually really awesome on PC max settings.
 

strafer

member
Oh man, I was so hesitant about this game at first, then I got it cheap and played through it and it's fucking awesome, the takedowns is one the better parts, those knife kills, oh man.

The only thing that didn't really sell me was the voice, Sam Fisher to me will always be Michael Ironside.

I wish they could have changed the story a bit and make Ironside Sam Fisher senior and this new voice his son, I don't know, like an advisor or maybe go on a few missions.

Anyways, can't wait to see what they do next. If they even gonna make another one.
 

Rainy Dog

Member
Great write up OP. I've only played Chaos Theory, and just a few months ago at that, but absolutely loved it.

Picked up Blacklist for the PC for just a few quid shortly after and will have to bump it up my backlog. Should be a nice gaming introduction to my new 970 too.
 
I finished the game last night. I never liked this series but I loved this game.

Except for a couple of missions objectives the rest of the game is brilliant. The story is ok but the gameplay is awesome.

Too bad the game uses Uplay and the coop/multi doesn't seem to work anymore, but still a great option when in offer.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
I bitched about this game right up until I played it. Really liked the gameplay but wasn't much of a fan of the characters or story etc. The campaign, gameplay-wise, was very good up until the last 1/3. That was about when the devs made some really questionable gameplay decisions.

It must be said, Grim's missions are some of the best in the series. Not quite Bank levels of awesome but damn close in places.
 

Fractal

Banned
I didn't like it, played it for a little bit, and ended up on some Embassy side mission where you have 5 mandatory, or 20 optional waves of enemies to defeat. Wasn't long before I found out doing it stealthy and non-lethaly is pretty much impossible and incredibly time-consuming, even if you resort to some exploitive tactics. I still tried it, and as a result, I got frustrated and gave up on the game. A shame, was really hoping it'd click with me, especially since many SC fans say it can even match Chaos Theory.
 

Returners

Member
Everyone who was on Nikita was in this game, expect Maggie Q of course.

The PS3 version was terribly choppy, but is eons better than the slideshow Double Agent PS3 port.

Miss Ironside but what can you do... The sacarsm/pessimism just doesn't come through when you have a younger voice.
 
This is the one "old gen" game I still really want to play, but I have the nagging feeling that whenever I come around buying it for ye olde 360, a nice, shiny Xbox One re-release is right around the corner.

I'd REALLY like a Definitive Edition for this, like Tomb Raider or the forthcoming Saints Row 4.
 

bitoriginal

Member
This game was hideously underplayed. I absolutely loved it and thought it was one of the better games I played last gen. I still have a hankering to go back and visit it occasionally.
 

Catdaddy

Member
Just picked this up few weeks back for cheap as well. Haven't had a chance to play it yet, but after reading this looks like will be game of this weekend.
 
i keep thinking about getting this on wii u since it's so cheap. i loved the original splinter cell trilogy back on the original xbox. i just have so much to play. plus, i read the wii u version isn't as good as the other builds. unfortunately, i no longer have a 360 or ps3.
 

CHC

Member
Goddamn I just loved this game, even seeing that screenshot makes me want to play it again (the best level right there). They perfectly fused old and new and in turn it cost me about 60 hours of my time.

If a series like Call of Duty could look to this game for the amount of content to include and how to make levels for AAA military action, that would really be a breath of fresh.

I would buy a mechanically identical sequel to Blacklist in a heartbeat so get on the case Ubi!
 

Obeso

Banned
I finished this week, really enjoyed, but it looked a bit too "game-ish" with auto cover change and the non convincing Npc(sorry Grim).
I enjoyed Conviction more.
 

Obeso

Banned
Goddamn I just loved this game, even seeing that screenshot makes me want to play it again (the best level right there). They perfectly fused old and new and in turn it cost me about 60 hours of my time.

If a series like Call of Duty could look to this game for the amount of content to include and how to make levels for AAA military action, that would really be a breath of fresh.

I would buy a mechanically identical sequel to Blacklist in a heartbeat so get on the case Ubi!

Levdl design was mostly very good.
 

Sotha_Sil

Member
Blacklist is one of those games I've sadly not had time to get around to. I'm a huge fan of the first three (never played either version of Double Agent, hated Conviction). I recently finished a run-through of Chaos Theory HD.... what a great game. If Blacklist really is a return to those roots in a modern form, I'm looking forward to playing it.
 

Blinck

Member
Blacklist is amazing.

Play it on Perfectionist though.

All the "auto-shooting" and "see through walls" are absolutely bullshit mechanics that ruin the experience.

Play it in perfectionist and get the true Splinter Cell experience.
 
I thought it was pretty good, i'm not as addicted to the franchise as some others might be. But they are still pretty fun to play (i liked double agent and conviction.... conviction made me feel like i was more like Jack Bauer and that was a-ok with me lol).
 
Played on Wii U and thought it was really good. The gameplay really was top notch, the loading times are terrible though, and the ending was rather anticlimactic. Oh, and I miss Michael Ironside. I'm sorry new VA, your good, but Ironside is Ironside.
 

Dabanton

Member
Best Splinter Cell yet imo.

They took my particular annoyances with Conviction and scrubbed them while taking into account that Sam is actually a damm dangerous field agent. So if you were surprised by a guard you could take him down efficiently. I loved going through the levels without being detected a particular thrill and the controls were good enough to allow that.
 

Fro-

Neo Member
I beat Blacklist a few months ago and really enjoyed it. I was a big SC fan in the PS2 era and never played Conviction since I didn't own an Xbox 360, so it had been a long time between games for me. I hope they release another one...I mean, Blacklist did apparently sell over 2 million copies (even though that's considered below expectations for Ubisoft).
 
#2 on my 2013 GoTY list. It's a damn shame more people didn't play it.

And I disagree that the Wii U version was objectively the worst. For me it shits all over the PS3 version (only other one I've seen) in small part due to gamepad stuff, but mostly due to the lack of screen tearing. The tearing in the PS3 (and 360 if I recall) version is just hideous.

In feel like they really nailed the stealth mechanics, and the missions were varies and interesting enough to keep things engaging. Loved this game. I'm due for another playthrough.
And that's it there's no tearing in the Wii U, after that the list of technical things is quite sub par. First and for most this has the low resolution textures and no way to use the higher resolution ones like in the 360. Has frame rate drops, but not game braking by any means. And the load times affect the experience, they are just too long. Thankfully it doesn't load much between retries, if that was the case the game would be very hard to enjoy at all.

Gamepad works wonderful thought. But they kind of mess up by not allowing drag and drop for items positions and is kind of redundant to have the weapon selection on the sub screen when they are also available in the D pad. But if you are not bias about it, yes, Wii U version has the most technical issues.
 

jimi_dini

Member
i keep thinking about getting this on wii u since it's so cheap.

Do it. The gamepad support is really well done and it's fun.

i read the wii u version isn't as good as the other builds. unfortunately, i no longer have a 360 or ps3.

The Wii U has longer loading times, because there is no harddrive installation, BUT it also has no tearing. Loading times are masked for regular campaign gameplay, which means if you watch the cutscenes you won't notice a thing most of the time. Also the other versions tear a lot. And tearing is a dealbreaker for me. I consider the Wii U version to be the best one. You just need to forward a UDP port from your router to the Wii U otherwise it will crash/freeze every few matches on competitive multiplayer.

I bought it originally for PS3, because the Special Super Collector's Edition was so cheap. I was pleasently surprised. It's actually a competent stealth game. After the horrible Ubisoft presentations that was really unexpected. Sadly there are plenty of coop people, who don't give a shit about stealth and go the action route and you can't do anything about it. They should have created separate lobbies for stealth + action gameplay.


Oh and the moron, who designed that last boss fight QTE deserves to be fired. And the people responsible for that terrible coop mission, where you have to play a somewhat stationary turret section in the end with no way of doing it in a stealthy way, deserve to be fired as well. I have no idea what they were thinking.
 

Vossler

Member
Going to actually fire this up this weekend with my new 980 - 670s kept running out of Vram when pumping up the graphics. I've always been a huge fan of SC, and never gave this one my full attention.
 

scitek

Member
Going to actually fire this up this weekend with my new 980 - 670s kept running out of Vram when pumping up the graphics. I've always been a huge fan of SC, and never gave this one my full attention.

What? My 2GB 670 could nearly max this out (HBAO instead of HBAO+) minus SSAA and keep 60fps.
 
It felt like a Conviction mod to me, trying to appease the original SC fans. Get rid of the mark and execute, LXP, make it more about sneaking than just going through the maps. Add in some lockpicking, computer hacking, interrogating, etc. and we have a game that I'd love.
 

Scrabble

Member
Good game, but it still isn't anywhere as good as the older titles. As a diehard Chaos Theory fan, I just don't understand the sentiment that Blacklist is a return to form, or similar to the first three games. It just isn't. Sam is just too powerful and fast. Sam in the older titles actually moved and felt like a human, where sam in conviction and blacklist is some sort of super hero capable of unparalleled feats even at 50+ years old. And because Sam is so powerful and quick, it means the encounters have to packed to the brim with guards for it to be challenging. Levels felt more like moving from wave arena to wave arena, as opposed to the natural flow and progression of earlier titles.

But my biggest issue is outside of the gameplay, and more the presentation and characters. The old Splinter Cell games were funny and had great characters. There was always a good back and forth between Sam and Lambert, and even though Sam was a grumpy old man, he still had a sense of humor. I wanted to punch Sam every time he spoke in Blacklist. I've never hated a video game character more than I hated Sam in Blacklist.
 

prag16

Banned
And that's it there's no tearing in the Wii U, after that the list of technical things is quite sub par. First and for most this has the low resolution textures and no way to use the higher resolution ones like in the 360. Has frame rate drops, but not game braking by any means. And the load times affect the experience, they are just too long. Thankfully it doesn't load much between retries, if that was the case the game would be very hard to enjoy at all.

Gamepad works wonderful thought. But they kind of mess up by not allowing drag and drop for items positions and is kind of redundant to have the weapon selection on the sub screen when they are also available in the D pad. But if you are not bias about it, yes, Wii U version has the most technical issues.

I'm not biased, and I still prefer the Wii U version. You're not wrong, but the degree of screen tearing in the other versions makes me want to tear my eyes out. Other people it may not bother as much. The load times were annoying though. I'd basically walk to the bathroom or kitchen on the initial load for each level.

Doing it all over again I probably would have opted for the PC version over any of the console versions, but meh.
 

cartesian

Member
Good game, but it still isn't anywhere as good as the older titles. As a diehard Chaos Theory fan, I just don't understand the sentiment that Blacklist is a return to form, or similar to the first three games. It just isn't. Sam is just too powerful and fast. Sam in the older titles actually moved and felt like a human, where sam in conviction and blacklist is some sort of super hero capable of unparalleled feats even at 50+ years old. And because Sam is so powerful and quick, it means the encounters have to packed to the brim with guards for it to be challenging. Levels felt more like moving from wave arena to wave arena, as opposed to the natural flow and progression of earlier titles.

But my biggest issue is outside of the gameplay, and more the presentation and characters. The old Splinter Cell games were funny and had great characters. There was always a good back and forth between Sam and Lambert, and even though Sam was a grumpy old man, he still had a sense of humor. I wanted to punch Sam every time he spoke in Blacklist. I've never hated a video game character more than I hated Sam in Blacklist.
So, in answer to the question about how Chaos Theory fans see Blacklist, I would have to say that I personally completely agree with the post above. Don't get me wrong, Blacklist is still a very fun and satisfying game - but it's not so much a successor to Chaos Theory as a side-stepping of it. Although Blacklist can boast its own unique successes, as a franchise sequel it doesn't really come that close to matching Chaos Theory's special blend of tension, deliberate pacing, techno music and atmosphere that made Chaos Theory such a classic, and the multiplayer mode is a very shallow run-and-gun simplification of the highly-tactical Spies vs Mercs mode in Pandora Tomorrow/Chaos Theory.

That said, Blacklist definitely deserved to sell much better than it did, and I would recommend it to virtually anyone.
 

Berg

Member
Loved this game. still play multiplayer. Wiiu gamepad was awesome in this game. inventory, spy camera, off tv play.
 

Alienous

Member
My only complaint is that it ran on Unreal Engine 2.5, or some shit. It showed.

But it's a really well produced game. Absolutely triple-A, but much more focused than the average AAA game. Tons of content, and good reasons to experience all of it. And stealthing it feels great.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Nice to see Spies Vs Merc return. It was fun for the most part. I wouldn't gone with some of the gameplay mechanics that they did, but overall, it's pretty solid.

-Blacklist mode should only be 3v3
-Lethal Spies are annoying
-infinite respawns just creates chaos IMO

Otherwise, It was a lot of fun. I still prefer SCDA though. (mainly because I was so good at it lol). Was hoping to get some new maps too.
 
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