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[Nemo]

Please tell me they fixed the UPs in SMG2

 

[AniHawk]

No, he's your alt account you sly bastard.

Keep it down! Mods are watching!

 

[Fuzzy]

Keep it down! Mods are watching!

They weren't smart enough a few years ago when cvxfreak, you and I were all the same person so I really doubt they'll figure this one out.

 

[Arthrus]

Would it be unfair to ask the OP for a few of the puzzles in Mario 64 that were particularly good?

The only one that comes to mind was finding a way to get on top of all four of the pillars in the desert level without getting killed by quicksand. There was some freedom in how you chose to go about it (I knew of three different ways it could be done: wing cap, surfing a shell, and jumping on a flying shy guy), which was really nice.
However, aside from a few *verb* the *objects* in a particular order, I can't remember any puzzles.

 

[-WindYoshi-]

Would it be unfair to ask the OP for a few of the puzzles in Mario 64 that were particularly good?

The only one that comes to mind was finding a way to get on top of all four of the pillars in the desert level without getting killed by quicksand. There was some freedom in how you chose to go about it (I knew of three different ways it could be done: wing cap, surfing a shell, and jumping on a flying shy guy), which was really nice.
However, aside from a few *verb* the *objects* in a particular order, I can't remember any puzzles.

The ice cube maze thing was kind of a "puzzle"... how about figuring out how to get into wiggler's lair?

 

[Katzenjammer]

Would it be unfair to ask the OP for a few of the puzzles in Mario 64 that were particularly good?

The only one that comes to mind was finding a way to get on top of all four of the pillars in the desert level without getting killed by quicksand. There was some freedom in how you chose to go about it (I knew of three different ways it could be done: wing cap, surfing a shell, and jumping on a flying shy guy), which was really nice.
However, aside from a few *verb* the *objects* in a particular order, I can't remember any puzzles.

Maybe OT but: Couldn't you just run up the sides of the pillars?

 

[Arthrus]

Maybe OT but: Couldn't you just run up the sides of the pillars?

Two of the pillars were surrounded by quicksand, so you had to find some way to get to them.
The ice cube maze was pretty cool. I totally forgot about that!

 

[phisheep]

I had a similar experience to Hyduk's to start with. Played 53 stars soon after it came out and gave up - the game just wasn't grabbing me. It stayed gathering dust for a long time, until I ran out of games a few months ago.

Started from scratch and whaled through it.

Then, I did the whole thing again another twice.

Quite enjoyed the tightness of the individual levels - what I found difficult was the psychology of doing the tough ones - do I bang them out of the way now, or leave the hardest stuff to the end?

About ten levels I'd replay over and over for perfection (daredevil bouldergeist was one).

One of those games where you need to be in the right (=bloody-mindedly determined) frame of mind in order to thrash it, but can take a long while to get properly into.

 

[beelzebozo]

I guess being linear is great for Galaxy, bad for FFXIII. As decided by Gaf of course.

i guess being hot is good for pizza and bad for ice cream.

as decided by chefs, of course.

 

[hyduK]

Would it be unfair to ask the OP for a few of the puzzles in Mario 64 that were particularly good?

The only one that comes to mind was finding a way to get on top of all four of the pillars in the desert level without getting killed by quicksand. There was some freedom in how you chose to go about it (I knew of three different ways it could be done: wing cap, surfing a shell, and jumping on a flying shy guy), which was really nice.
However, aside from a few *verb* the *objects* in a particular order, I can't remember any puzzles.

Puzzles was probably the wrong word to be honest. In SM64 you have to look at the name of the course, and use it as a clue in the level to determine what to do. I suppose it's not really a puzzle, but it requires you to think and explore the level. This doesn't happen in SMG, the name of the courses are basically irrelevant because you just run from point A to point B (although this apparently changes somewhat later on).

Ex. In Super Mario 64 there's a course called "The Big House in the Sky". So right away, you go into the level and start exploring for this 'big house'. Whereas in SMG it really doesn't matter what the course is called, you just go in and jump from planet to planet and reach your goal eventually.

 

[Arthrus]

Ah, okay. That can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on what the name of the star is and (more importantly) the individual playing. I'm going to say in general it's not a great idea because younger players won't necessarily catch the hints. Much as I do love Mario, I know there were times when I forgot where I was supposed to be going in Hazy Maze Cave and had to leave the level or look at a guide back when I was eight years old.

So, I respectfully disagree with your opinion!

 

[CreatureX3]

The best Nintendo games ever made:

1. Super Mario Galaxy
2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
3. Super Metroid
4. Super Mario World
5. Metroid Prime

 

[hyduK]

The best Nintendo games ever made:

1. Super Mario Galaxy
2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
3. Super Metroid
4. Super Mario World
5. Metroid Prime

Flip the list around, swap SMG for LttP and I agree!

 

[Roto13]

That's the major (and it is major) issue I have with the game.

It's not a major issue. It's not an issue at all. Linearity is not inferior to a more open approach, especially in a platformer.

Complaining about the level design in Super Mario Galaxy is kind of ridiculous considering it probably has better level design than any other game ever made.

 

[hyduK]

It's not a major issue. It's not an issue at all. Linearity is not inferior to a more open approach, especially in a platformer.

Complaining about the level design in Super Mario Galaxy is kind of ridiculous considering it probably has better level design than any other game ever made.

For me, it is. Linearity isn't always inferior, no, but in this case it feels that way. There would be so many more possibilities had the galaxies been large persistent worlds. They effectively limit you to 1/6th of the galaxy on each individual star. If they're going to do that, they could at least provide some variety....as it is you basically jump to a new planet build a launch pad and proceed to the next planet. I can't even count how many times I had to do that, and they don't even make the pieces hard to obtain. I understood on the first few zones they were using it to showcase the gravity and how shit can be on any part of the surface...but the most creative thing I've seen done with them at this point is having to lure a missile to shatter the object containing it.

I would also liked for them to deal with the comets in a different way. Instead of it being "this comet is now in orbit, do this level again but with 1 health, or racing cosmic mario, etc" how about "There's a comet in orbit, go find this NEW star, but you have to race, or can't get hit, etc".

Your second statement made me chuckle, though. Did you mean in terms of platformers (it would still be funny)?

 

[upandaway]

After Mario 64, the paths split. One path was Sunshine, Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie, and the other was Galaxy. It just sounds like OP wants the former.

The one thing I think that is a fault in Galaxy's design is the sheer variety of ways to play through a level. It's pretty obvious Galaxy wants to be 2D Mario in 3D, but it didn't get that part down. You can't go down a random pipe in a level, hit a bonus place and then go out the pipe further down the level. If you explore, by default you don't make progress. That's the only reason I think the "Galaxy path" has much more potential than what Galaxy used to be the most fun linear game, at least in 3D.

 

[theluma]

Sunshine's non-linearity is mainly what brought it down if you ask me.

I would say that (although they can be counted on one hand) the few stars that were not so good in SMG were precisely the least linear ones, i.e. the purple coin challenges such as sea slide where or honey hive where you basically just walk around a level collecting stuff. Meh.

 

[CreatureX3]

The best levels of Mario 64 were the (linear) Bowser levels.

 

[ConcealedBlaze]

In my mind, Galaxy is the BEST 3D platformer yet made. It takes the linearity and subsequent pitch perfect crafting from the 2d era and adds in unique gameplay only possible in 3D as well as perfect control, excellent level design, sound, and art direction. All in all a great package. My only complaint is that it felt so, so easy and a bunch of levels tended to blend together. I would have preferred fewer levels with more content in each.

 

[AniHawk]

The best levels of Mario 64 were the (linear) Bowser levels.

So very true.

 

[Christine]

The best levels in Sunshine were the linear special stages. Maybe there's a patten here, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Do The Mario]

I love the linear level design, IMO it's one of the games strengths. It's pretty much the closest thing to taking Super Mario Bros 3 and making it 3D!

Actually I would go as far to say that Mario 64 resembles more of an adventure game than a platformer.

It also makes the game much easier to pick up and play.

However, I do wish the difficulty was turned up just a little.

 

[JSnake]

The best levels of Mario 64 were the (linear) Bowser levels.

Totally agree with this.

Also Galaxy is my favorite game. Love it. LOVE. IT.

 

[Dragmire]

Linearity didn't make the game that different. It would still throw you in the same starting point sometimes just so you can 'feel' like it's a nonlinear world. But realistically, most people probably are better off without it. Zelda is better for exploration than a Mario game anyway.


And I have a feeling we're all going to think Super Mario Galaxy is kind of 'meh' once the sequel comes out...

 

[AniHawk]

And I have a feeling we're all going to think Super Mario Galaxy is kind of 'meh' once the sequel comes out...

Yeah well the second one looks like what the first one should've been.

 

[upandaway]

Yeah well the second one looks like what the first one should've been.

What?! We don't know anything yet!

 

[AniHawk]

What?! We don't know anything yet!

I'm talking about the level design, which looks crazier than more than half the stuff we saw in Galaxy.

 

[Dragmire]

Yeah well the second one looks like what the first one should've been.

I loved Super Mario Galaxy, but I kind of agree. They can go farther with the ideas from the first game. Some of them were just never developed.

 

[McLovin]

I loved galaxy but I kind of agree with some of the OP's points. Unfortunately the real SMG doesn't start until your well into the game.. the beginning is just too easy. Mario 64 had a great overworld and the way you jumped into worlds was really cool. I also miss the huge open world from SM Sunshine. I would love for the series to have an interesting over world again.

 

[manueldelalas]

I'm with OP in this one; I loved exploring the world in Mario 64 (because it was awesome). All of those stupid little secrets was great (I have a friend that in his gamem I don't know how, one of the snowmans that threw you snowballs stole Mario's hat and we could never recover it) and the freedom and tight controls made that game legendary, I loved that stuff in M64...

 

[bdouble]

I'm with OP in this one; I loved exploring the world in Mario 64 (because it was awesome). All of those stupid little secrets was great (I have a friend that in his gamem I don't know how, one of the snowmans that threw you snowballs stole Mario's hat and we could never recover it) and the freedom and tight controls made that game legendary, I loved that stuff in M64...

That isn't it being more open though. Thats just a cool little thing in the game and I did it as well.

 

[forknknife]

Super Mario Galaxy's only flaw for me was the difficult curve, should've been more steep. Other than that I think it's the best game this generation.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Well, we are talking about platformers and not adventure games...

Eh? Are you trying to say that Banjo-Kazooie isn't a platformer? How do you work that one out?


As for Galaxy, it never really occurred to me until now that it's essentially 2D Mario in 3D. At first, I thought it let the game down, but after a while, the game throws some really clever "get from point A to point B" level designs at you that simply wouldn't be possible with open-world environments. Examples that spring to mind include Matter Splatter Galaxy, and Infiltrating the Dreadnought. Galaxy isn't about exploring; it's about perfectly refined platforming.

 

[ToxicAdam]

The best levels in Sunshine were the linear special stages. Maybe there's a patten here, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

The worlds in SM Sunshine were essentially linear, too. You could explore the entire map, but there was always a central focus to guide you to the Shine. Sometimes you couldn't even explore the entire map, they would close it off and force you into only a portion.



I just did another playthrough of Sunshine a month ago. I think it may be my favorite 3D mario game and just short of SMW, as my favorite Mario game ever.

 

[nincompoop]

Eh? Are you trying to say that Banjo-Kazooie isn't a platformer? How do you work that one out?

Probably because platformers require timing and precision, not just running around collecting useless bullshit with an occasional minigame challenge thrown in in an (unsuccessful) attempt to break up the monotony.

 

[ConcealedBlaze]

Probably because platformers require timing and precision, not just running around collecting useless bullshit with an occasional minigame challenge thrown in in an (unsuccessful) attempt to break up the monotony.

I love Banjo Kazooie... a lot... but yeah it's really not a platformer. It's simply a collect-a-thon:lol

Still a great game from my childhood, though

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Probably because platformers require timing and precision, not just running around collecting useless bullshit with an occasional minigame challenge thrown in in an (unsuccessful) attempt to break up the monotony.

Well, it obviously did something right, as it's still to this day loved by a lot of people, myself included.

Oh, and it's a platformer. There are more than enough "platforms" to navigate and jump around on, if that's your definition. Anybody who says there isn't either hasn't played/has forgotten the entirety of Click Clock Wood, the Engine Room in Rusty Bucket Bay, the snowman in Freezeezy Peak, jumping up the treetops in Bubblegloop Swamp, the pipes in Clanker's Cavern, climbing to the top of Treasure Trove Cove, etc. Shall I go on? How anybody can say that a game which has multiple ways of jumping, and a "flap" that increases the distance of a jump, isn't a platformer is beyond me.

And complaining about collecting stuff might make sense with Tooie, but Kazooie didn't have much.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I really enjoyed Mario Galaxy and it is by far my favorite game on the Wii, but I really do want a new Mario game that expands on the Mario 64 formula.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I loved Super Mario Galaxy, but I kind of agree. They can go farther with the ideas from the first game. Some of them were just never developed.

It was VERY obvious that EAD Tokyo wouldn't be able to fit all of the ideas that can come from "Mario in space" into one game. Then again, the possibility of them doing so even with the sequel is slim, since there's just an endless amount of creativity that can be squeezed out of the outer space setting.

This is why it was so perplexing when there were people actually complaining about the announcement of Super Mario Galaxy 2.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

It was VERY obvious that EAD Tokyo wouldn't be able to fit all of the ideas that can come from "Mario in space" into one game. Then again, the possibility of them doing so even with the sequel is slim, since there's just an endless amount of creativity that can be squeezed out of the outer space setting.

This is why it was so perplexing when there were people actually complaining about the announcement of Super Mario Galaxy 2.

Funnily enough, some of my favourite parts of Galaxy didn't even utilise the manipulation of gravity, and could have been done in Sunshine, such as Matter Splatter Galaxy, Luigi's Purple Coins, and those segments where Mario was in a bubble, and you had to steer him around by using the blower cursor. The whole gravity gimmick was amazing, and I'm happy we'll be seeing more in Galaxy 2, but it was hardly the sole reason why Galaxy 1 was so brilliant.

 

[Captain Sparrow]

Bashing Mario Galaxys "linear" progress sounds like you are digging deep to look for something.

Mario was built on linear exploration and some of the best games are that way.

 

[Joei]

I like SMGs linearity and the way the game is setup. And, just as much as I like it, I could see how someone could dislike it. But I don't think it's bad level design, and the game definitely isn't "bad." That said, I can understand the point of the OP, I think his word choice may be a bit wrong though.

 

[Willectro]

I don't like Pokemon Platinum because Blastoise isn't in it. Therefore Platinum is a bad game because it isn't like Red/Blue.

 

[Sohter.Nura]

I kinda feel like that too, but the game is still great. It reminds me a lot more of traditional Super Mario (like the original SMB for the NES) more than M64.

M64 has those moments where you go to this hidden part of the map and you find something over there and it just blows your mind. SMG has very little of that which was sort of disappointing for me. Great game nonetheless.

 

[Kenaras]

Btw, just to blow your mind, Super Mario 64 wasn't the best platformer of its gen, it was Rayman 2, basically for its linearity.

I thought I was the only one who felt that way. Rayman 2 was a masterpiece.

 

[FoxMcCloudDS]

Did they think it would be too overwhelming to have a whole world open with the gravity mechanic included? That's really the only possibility I can think of....

you honestly don't think that you would want to fly around planet to planet through tons of these galaxies trying to find a star? It's quite obvious that nintendo purposely made it linear because flying around tons of planets "exploring" or having 1 huge planet wouldn't show off the games main mechanic value "the gravity". Having the gravity is what made galaxy what it is.

BRING ON GALAXY 2! YEAH!

a new hud is about all that I agree with on this. Maybe in the next one you will be able to explore the whole space ship thingy. lol

 

[Motion Picture Soundtrack]

Btw, just to blow your mind, Super Mario 64 wasn't the best platformer of its gen, it was Rayman 2, basically for its linearity.

Yep.

 

[wRATH2x]

Thats one of the many reasons why I don't care for it much.

I could go on and on about everything I hated in the game, but thats gotten a little boring. So I decided to list the things I loved about the game:

-The graphics are something you would think is beyond what the Wii is capable of.
-The soundtrack is amazing to say the least.
-A lot of the levels were pretty creative.
-I liked how Luigi extended the game.
-Most of the bosses were great to play against.
-The special powers were insanely fun.

 

[NotWii]

The best levels of Mario 64 were the (linear) Bowser levels.

Ya, especially the musiicccccc
At first, the whole game was supposed to be levels like that

The linear stages were also the best things in Mario Sunshine

 

[selig]

The best levels of Mario 64 were the (linear) Bowser levels.

they were the best because they brought more variety to the game. Imo, the 3D-Mario game are still the fludd-less levels in Sunshine. Galaxy didnt achieve that greatness. Mario64-like levels plus fludd-less levels in one game would be perfect.