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[Nessus]

Now the bad....I simply can't stand the way they handled the level design in the game. In Mario 64 you would basically jump into the painting, select the star you were going after, and go into the world. Thing is, once you get into the world, you can basically explore it fully at your will, and you don't necessarily have to get the star that you selected at the level screen. Depending on what star you select there might be some minor differences, but that was really it.

That's, like, exactly the reason I loved Super Mario Galaxy and don't feel Mario 64 holds up quite as well nowadays. Mario 64 was a huge departure of the very focused level design of the 2D games. If you were to remove Mario and the other characters there's little to indicate that it's a Mario game, even.

Super Mario Galaxy on the other hand gives you a specific task, rearranges the layout or takes you on a unique path through the level for each star, and mercifully has you returning to each level 8 times far less often than Mario 64 (which gets tiresome). I love that there are quite a few one-shot levels with a single star each.

 

[Freezie KO]

Never once do I think, "Man, I need some downtime to run around in between all this fun I'm having."

 

[JHarris]

There is more than one way to make a good game. Linearity works for some games and doesn't for others. Generally, non-linear games provide for deeper play, and linear ones provide for more focused play. I would say that non-linear games make better use of the strength of video games as a medium, overall. But if Mario Galaxy had freeform exploration, it wouldn't be the same game. Whether it would be better or worse, we cannot know. It probably would have entirely different levels.

But as an illustration of how awesome freeform exploration could potentially be in Mario Galaxy, something that's fun to do is to use the Homebrew Channel to load a cheat program and the code that allows you to turn on Flying Mario at will in any level. There are lots of places out in the cold void of space where you'll just die, and places where the camera messes up, and other problems too, but there are also some amazing things to discover. For instance, in one level (I think it was Toy Time) I caught a glimpse of something odd, like a little dot, way out in the distance while flying around. It took me a few minutes to reach it, but it turned out to be one of the pipe worlds of that level! I was seeing the interior walls of it too (since the outside doesn't render). When I reached it, the game glitched me inside it and it was just as if I had entered it normally. Except, since I wasn't on a star that ordinarily allowed for entry to that world, when I exited it via pipe I ended up in the void, and died immediately... and because exiting a pipe sets a checkpoint my next life died... and then my next one...

 

[makingmusic476]

Ya know, I think this thread has finally made me realize why Super Mario Galaxy is my least favorite 3D Mario.

Since 2007, I had gone over many possible reasons why this might be the case. The only things I could come up with were space is boring, tropical isle settings are win, and the levels in Super Mario Galaxy just aren't as fun as they were in past Mario games.

I think I now know why they aren't quite as fun. Looking back, trying to figure out if I have to use a cannon or climb a tower to get one star, where I need to go next in the maze, what's up with this crazy lochness monster looking thing, what do I do with these mirrors to get that Shinesprite, etc. are all why I loved Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine. In Super Mario Galaxy, it was basically just running from point A to point B, with some really annoying obstacles in my way. I love that in 2D Mario, but in 3D Mario it can be a bit of a chore.

Thank you OP.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I think I now know why they aren't quite as fun. Looking back, trying to figure out if I have to use a cannon or climb a tower to get one star, where I need to go next in the maze, what's up with this crazy lochness monster looking thing, what do I do with these mirrors to get that Shinesprite, etc. are all why I loved Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine. In Super Mario Galaxy, it was basically just running from point A to point B, with some really annoying obstacles in my way. I love that in 2D Mario, but in 3D Mario it can be a bit of a chore.

I think the reason that people like the "secret" stars in Sunshine is because of how much less of a chore they are than, say, collecting a bajillion blue coins.

Now, I enjoy Sunshine myself, but there's a reason I could never get myself to reach 120 stars, and that's because the game just wears on the player after a while. It has the 100 coin stars just like Mario 64, but it also has blue coins scattered all over everywhere, which are satisfying to collect at first, but eventually become more of a "chore" than anything else. Then there are hidden stars like ones where you have to find some random golden bird and spray it with FLUDD. Then there are stars that require you to run around collecting fruit and bringing it back to somebody. And, besides stars, you have to find specific kinds of fruits just to use Yoshi, and Yoshi isn't even that useful!

So, in all, Sunshine feels far more like "work" than the other 3D Mario games. I can't even imagine getting every star in the game. I was tired and ready to move on by the time I hit 80 stars. That didn't happen with Galaxy. With Galaxy, once I hit 80 stars, I was just more excited about what ways the game was going to challenge me in terms of pure level design, and it didn't really disappoint since the game gets its hardest and most satisfying once it hits that point, where a game like Sunshine just seems to drag.

That said, it must be noted that Sunshine also has moments of pure brilliance in its "platforming jungle" methods of level design. Bianco Hills, Ricco Harbor, and Pianta Village eclipse even some of the best levels in both Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy. I'd even go so far as to say that Bianco Hills is a better first world than Bob-omb Battlefield.

Of course, Mario 64 has always been and will always be a masterpiece, just because of how well it was put together and how it never feels like it has "filler" content (something that Sunshine has in droves). After Galaxy 2 I do think it'd be nice to return to a formula that includes Mario 64-esque exploration, but not exclusively. Like Sunshine, there should be levels or pure linearity to break it up, though probably in a greater amount. That'd be ideal.

 

[CreatureX3]

Never once do I think, "Man, I need some downtime to run around in between all this fun I'm having."

QFT!