• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Lumber Liquidators stocks drop after new '60 Minutes' video airs

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

studyguy

Member
That Chinese mill bit at the end is a pretty bad look.
Laminate flooring was set in like two years ago where I am now.
Pretty sure it was LL.

Guess I'm dead.
 
J

J-Rzez

Member
Well, just another reason to avoid Chinese products. My drawing line was set a while back when there was all those discussions about their "dog food/treats" debacle. Can't even buy flooring from that country, jesus...
 
P

PeakPointMatrix

Member
Ray Wonder said:
lexr0iv.gif
Click to expand...
This is why I never want the Simpsons off the air.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
J-Rzez said:
Well, just another reason to avoid Chinese products. My drawing line was set a while back when there was all those discussions about their "dog food/treats" debacle. Can't even buy flooring from that country, jesus...
Click to expand...

In this case, it seems more like an issue of the buyers choosing to purchase non-compliant product. They *could* have paid more for compliant wood laminate flooring. LL actively chose not to to save a buck.

It's only time to blame Chinese products here if LL were under the impression they were buying compliant wood flooring when they were not.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Bombasador said:
Now would be a fantastic time to buy LL stock.
Click to expand...

No, now is a great time to short LL stock. The lawsuits will come. The fed investigation will not go well. I fully expect them to be forced to recall and refund wood flooring that has been put down in every household that comes forward proving that they have LL laminate flooring in their home. Further, they're going to have to pay as much as their competitors do for legit product, further hurting their margins.

They have a lot more pain going forward than pleasure. Good stock to short.

WeAreStarStuff said:
Wonder if anyone was shorting the stock before the story broke.
Click to expand...

The 2 guys interviewed first represented a group that has been shorting LL and suing them.
 
B

BobLoblaw

Banned
Bombasador said:
Now would be a fantastic time to buy LL stock.
Click to expand...
Yep. Buy fast and see how much you'll lose. Seriously, the amount of lawsuits from customers and distributors and government probes will doom these guys. Good riddance. Let another company with higher quality controls (not looking to save a buck) have their place.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
BobLoblaw said:
Yep. Buy fast and see how much you'll lose. Seriously, the amount of lawsuits from customers and distributors and government probes will doom these guys. Good riddance. Let another company with higher quality controls (not looking to save a buck) have their place.
Click to expand...

At the very best it would be a very risky investment.
 
nillapuddin

nillapuddin

Member
Thanks "LL" Making it easy to be in the flooring business, I've already received 3 calls for floor since that ran and all three of them stated they saw that special and returned floor /stopped purchasing process from them.
 
B

Big-E

Member
I think this is a bigger problem in China than the baby formula poisoning. Every single new apartment in China is stock full of chemicals where nobody here will live in apartments they bought and furnished for a year as they worry about the chemicals. My wife and I bought an apartment and furnished it before I knew about formaldehyde in laminate and furniture. The apartment we bought has been finished for about a year now and we had an air quality check. The formaldehyde reading was low, but it had elevated levels of benzene, toluene and other volatile chemicals. The apartment I am currently living in had double the recommended formaldehyde levels and it is a 4 year old apartment.

This is a major problem causing a large number of people to get sick and it looks like it is going to move over to other parts of the world if people keep buying Chinese wood and laminate "products".
 
B

BobLoblaw

Banned
nillapuddin said:
Thanks "LL" Making it easy to be in the flooring business, I've already received 3 calls for floor since that ran and all three of them stated they saw that special and returned floor /stopped purchasing process from them.
Click to expand...
Congrats! When people cut corners and end up jeopardizing the safety of others they deserve to lose business.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Piano said:
You're using a paid service to watch free public broadcasting? There are 179 episodes of Frontline on the PBS website. Free.
Click to expand...

I guess indirectly he is supporting them, since I doubt Netflix pays nothing for carrying them. Plus you are saving PBS bandwidth.
 
psychotron

psychotron

Member
So a new report from the CDC was released claiming the cancer risk to be 3x higher than initially thought.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-cancer-risk-from-lumber-liquidators-flooring

The agency said its "indoor air model used an incorrect value for ceiling height. As a result, the health risks were calculated using airborne concentration estimates about 3 times lower than they should have been."

The higher levels "could cause increased frequency of asthma symptoms and other respiratory issues for people with asthma and COPD [chronic obstructive pulmonary disease]."

On Feb. 10, the CDC issued a report estimating that the risk of cancer presented by the products was two to nine cases per 100,000 people. The agency subsequently learned that the risk was six to 30 cases.
Click to expand...

I just happen to have one of the flooring models that falls into this toxic category. I put it in about 2 1/2 years ago because my wife didn't want carpet anymore. We were expecting our first child and she figured area rugs are better, with spills and things like that. Fast forward to now and I have two children, both of whom have been crawling on this shit and breathing it in. I obviously want this out of my house, but it cost me thousands to put in, and a lot of work.

Rather than jump for a lawyer as others have, I decided to give the company the benefit of the doubt. I called the store I originally purchased it from and explained the situation. The person on the phone was very rude and denied everything. I explained that I'm sure he must be receiving lots of angry calls, but I'm trying meet half way. I asked that he work with me to reduce the price of new flooring a bit so that I could replace what I have. I did not ask for anything for free, or verbally attack him. Still, he said that the CDC was wrong, the risk was minimal and he wasn't doing anything for me, period.

After this I decided to email corporate. I gave the same request and said that perhaps some positive feedback would do some good given all the negative attention in the media. I was sent back a response saying that the CDC report was exaggerating the situation, and that all they would give is an air quality test. Others have done these tests and their own independent tests, many coming back with findings similar to the CDC. Yet, Lumber Liquidators is not offering anything to anyone. So yeah, now I need to rip up my flooring and spend a shitload replacing it. I'm bummed, and really pissed at this company.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
Damn, how did I miss this the first time around? Are they still doing this today? I was literally just about to buy new laminate floors from them next month too.

Hardwood here I come I guess ;_;
 
B

biggersmaller

Banned
psychotron said:
So a new report from the CDC was released claiming the cancer risk to be 3x higher than initially thought.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-cancer-risk-from-lumber-liquidators-flooring



I just happen to have one of the flooring models that falls into this toxic category. I put it in about 2 1/2 years ago because my wife didn't want carpet anymore. We were expecting our first child and she figured area rugs are better, with spills and things like that. Fast forward to now and I have two children, both of whom have been crawling on this shit and breathing it in. I obviously want this out of my house, but it cost me thousands to put in, and a lot of work.

Rather than jump for a lawyer as others have, I decided to give the company the benefit of the doubt. I called the store I originally purchased it from and explained the situation. The person on the phone was very rude and denied everything. I explained that I'm sure he must be receiving lots of angry calls, but I'm trying meet half way. I asked that he work with me to reduce the price of new flooring a bit so that I could replace what I have. I did not ask for anything for free, or verbally attack him. Still, he said that the CDC was wrong, the risk was minimal and he wasn't doing anything for me, period.

After this I decided to email corporate. I gave the same request and said that perhaps some positive feedback would do some good given all the negative attention in the media. I was sent back a response saying that the CDC report was exaggerating the situation, and that all they would give is an air quality test. Others have done these tests and their own independent tests, many coming back with findings similar to the CDC. Yet, Lumber Liquidators is not offering anything to anyone. So yeah, now I need to rip up my flooring and spend a shitload replacing it. I'm bummed, and really pissed at this company.
Click to expand...

I filed in small claims court and won against Sears for faulty appliances installed in a home I built (leaky fridge damaging flooring/servicemen dropping microwave and chipping granite). Like you, I got an estimate and politely emailed corporate/spoke with local reps to pay some of the repair costs. Got nowhere.

No attorney needed. Sears didn't show for court. Got a default judgement. I would suggest the same for you. If I lost the case, worst it would've cost me was the modest filing fee.
 
M

mackattk

Member
psychotron said:
So a new report from the CDC was released claiming the cancer risk to be 3x higher than initially thought.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-cancer-risk-from-lumber-liquidators-flooring



I just happen to have one of the flooring models that falls into this toxic category. I put it in about 2 1/2 years ago because my wife didn't want carpet anymore. We were expecting our first child and she figured area rugs are better, with spills and things like that. Fast forward to now and I have two children, both of whom have been crawling on this shit and breathing it in. I obviously want this out of my house, but it cost me thousands to put in, and a lot of work.

Rather than jump for a lawyer as others have, I decided to give the company the benefit of the doubt. I called the store I originally purchased it from and explained the situation. The person on the phone was very rude and denied everything. I explained that I'm sure he must be receiving lots of angry calls, but I'm trying meet half way. I asked that he work with me to reduce the price of new flooring a bit so that I could replace what I have. I did not ask for anything for free, or verbally attack him. Still, he said that the CDC was wrong, the risk was minimal and he wasn't doing anything for me, period.

After this I decided to email corporate. I gave the same request and said that perhaps some positive feedback would do some good given all the negative attention in the media. I was sent back a response saying that the CDC report was exaggerating the situation, and that all they would give is an air quality test. Others have done these tests and their own independent tests, many coming back with findings similar to the CDC. Yet, Lumber Liquidators is not offering anything to anyone. So yeah, now I need to rip up my flooring and spend a shitload replacing it. I'm bummed, and really pissed at this company.
Click to expand...

Ouch.. I hope for the best for you and your children. What a shitty thing to have to go through and LL giving you the middle finger throughout it all.
 
C

CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls

Banned
psychotron said:
So a new report from the CDC was released claiming the cancer risk to be 3x higher than initially thought.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-cancer-risk-from-lumber-liquidators-flooring



I just happen to have one of the flooring models that falls into this toxic category. I put it in about 2 1/2 years ago because my wife didn't want carpet anymore. We were expecting our first child and she figured area rugs are better, with spills and things like that. Fast forward to now and I have two children, both of whom have been crawling on this shit and breathing it in. I obviously want this out of my house, but it cost me thousands to put in, and a lot of work.

Rather than jump for a lawyer as others have, I decided to give the company the benefit of the doubt. I called the store I originally purchased it from and explained the situation. The person on the phone was very rude and denied everything. I explained that I'm sure he must be receiving lots of angry calls, but I'm trying meet half way. I asked that he work with me to reduce the price of new flooring a bit so that I could replace what I have. I did not ask for anything for free, or verbally attack him. Still, he said that the CDC was wrong, the risk was minimal and he wasn't doing anything for me, period.

After this I decided to email corporate. I gave the same request and said that perhaps some positive feedback would do some good given all the negative attention in the media. I was sent back a response saying that the CDC report was exaggerating the situation, and that all they would give is an air quality test. Others have done these tests and their own independent tests, many coming back with findings similar to the CDC. Yet, Lumber Liquidators is not offering anything to anyone. So yeah, now I need to rip up my flooring and spend a shitload replacing it. I'm bummed, and really pissed at this company.
Click to expand...

See if your local news agency would like to report on this. It'd help remind the public of LL's shitty practices.
 
S

see5harp

Member
I want to replace flooring and seeing this dating back a year has really soured me on the idea of buying cheaper laminate. It sucks because hardwood is usually at least double the price.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
see5harp said:
I want to replace flooring and seeing this dating back a year has really soured me on the idea of buying cheaper laminate. It sucks because hardwood is usually at least double the price.
Click to expand...
When I was pricing late last year/early this year the price difference between the really good laminate and mid-range hardwood was about the same.

I was really leaning towards the laminate for durability and thickness since I have tile floors that I wasn't planning on replacing and the height difference the hardwood would have will suck :(
 
E

Earthstrike

Member
Aesthet1c said:
I put their laminate flooring in my house like 2 years ago.

It's been nice knowing you GAF.
Click to expand...

Speak to a lawyer and investigate if any class actions are underway. You have a chance to cash out. Also, Get the flooring replaced. You, your wife, and any children you might have are at a health risk.
 
S

see5harp

Member
Saint Gregory said:
When I was pricing late last year/early this year the price difference between the really good laminate and mid-range hardwood was about the same.

I was really leaning towards the laminate for durability and thickness since I have tile floors that I wasn't planning on replacing and the height difference the hardwood would have will suck :(
Click to expand...

Really good laminate just sounds weird to me. I have nothing against something manufactured but to me something like that that can never be sanded or restained should never cost more than something made out of wood. I'm probably just going to get bamboo or something super durable.
 
psychotron

psychotron

Member
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls said:
See if your local news agency would like to report on this. It'd help remind the public of LL's shitty practices.
Click to expand...

The story was all over the evening news a few days ago. It's just odd that nothing seems to have happened as a result. They said they support the CDC's findings, but feel the flooring is safe. It's a contradictory response. They're offering air quality kits, but not offering to replace flooring if it comes back dangerous.

This was the response by email from corporate....

Thank you for contacting us in regards to the most recent media coverage of Lumber Liquidators.



Despite the errors in CDC's calculation, we note that they do not expect to change their recommendations and we support those recommendations. We also agree with CDC that their revised calculation overestimates any potential health risks from these products, and we are encouraged that CDC is seeking a broader review of their conclusions.



Lumber Liquidators has significantly strengthened our quality assurance procedures, from enhanced compliance protocols to product sample testing. In early May of 2015, Lumber Liquidators proactively suspended sales of all laminate flooring sourced from China. Additionally, since March of 2015, Lumber Liquidators has offered customers free independent air quality tests to provide objective scientific information about our products. We remain committed to operating with integrity and delivering quality flooring to our customers.


To see if you quality for a free in-home air quality test kit please visit: http://www.lumberliquidators.com/sustainability/our-commitment-to-quality-safety and select the 'Air Quality Test' link. Products such as: Hardwood, Tile, and Vinyl do not use formaldehyde in the manufacture process and there is no need to test this type of flooring. Bamboo and Engineered floors are made differently using different materials.



Testing is reserved for a select few laminate floors sourced from China prior to May 7th 2015.

Thank you,



Lumber Liquidators Customer Care





Please note that this is being sent to you from a mailbox that is not monitored so we respectfully request that you DO NOT reply to this email. Also please note that the response you received that indicated you should use a ticket number (LTK………..…X) should be discarded. Any further information you may need from us, please return to our website and initiate a new “Contact Us” session or call us at (800) 366-4204.
Click to expand...
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
I just moved into a new place and have no idea where the flooring is from. Are there any good air quality test kits that anyone would recommend? Searching on Amazon gives me a myriad of results.
 
V

Vyer

Member
psychotron said:
So a new report from the CDC was released claiming the cancer risk to be 3x higher than initially thought.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-cancer-risk-from-lumber-liquidators-flooring



I just happen to have one of the flooring models that falls into this toxic category. I put it in about 2 1/2 years ago because my wife didn't want carpet anymore. We were expecting our first child and she figured area rugs are better, with spills and things like that. Fast forward to now and I have two children, both of whom have been crawling on this shit and breathing it in. I obviously want this out of my house, but it cost me thousands to put in, and a lot of work.

Rather than jump for a lawyer as others have, I decided to give the company the benefit of the doubt. I called the store I originally purchased it from and explained the situation. The person on the phone was very rude and denied everything. I explained that I'm sure he must be receiving lots of angry calls, but I'm trying meet half way. I asked that he work with me to reduce the price of new flooring a bit so that I could replace what I have. I did not ask for anything for free, or verbally attack him. Still, he said that the CDC was wrong, the risk was minimal and he wasn't doing anything for me, period.

After this I decided to email corporate. I gave the same request and said that perhaps some positive feedback would do some good given all the negative attention in the media. I was sent back a response saying that the CDC report was exaggerating the situation, and that all they would give is an air quality test. Others have done these tests and their own independent tests, many coming back with findings similar to the CDC. Yet, Lumber Liquidators is not offering anything to anyone. So yeah, now I need to rip up my flooring and spend a shitload replacing it. I'm bummed, and really pissed at this company.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that's probably a good example of why 'jumping for a lawyer' or just going a legal route isn't necessarily a bad thing. Good luck and hopefully things work out for you guys.
 
L

LegendofJoe

Member
see5harp said:
Really good laminate just sounds weird to me. I have nothing against something manufactured but to me something like that that can never be sanded or restained should never cost more than something made out of wood. I'm probably just going to get bamboo or something super durable.
Click to expand...

Eucalyptus is a good option as well.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
see5harp said:
Really good laminate just sounds weird to me. I have nothing against something manufactured but to me something like that that can never be sanded or restained should never cost more than something made out of wood. I'm probably just going to get bamboo or something super durable.
Click to expand...
It does sound weird but the quality of laminate varies pretty wildly and the good stuff up close sometimes looks (and more importantly feels) very much like real wood.

My issue is more of a logistical problem since I own a condominium with concrete under-flooring. If I lived in a house or townhouse then natural wood would be a no-brainer. I never really knew that there were health concerns with laminate before and I don't find LL's statements about improving the manufacturing source reassuring when their prices have remained largely the same.
 
psychotron

psychotron

Member
I bought engineered hardwood to replace the toxic shit. The hardest part is moving all the furniture. Just cleared the room and am about to begin. Wish me luck, lol.
 
P

Parch

Member
Lumber Liquidators’ founder and chairman, Tom Sullivan, told “60 Minutes” that the tests weren't valid and said the company isn't required by law to test finished products, as the program did.
Click to expand...
So why isn't it required by law? Isn't there any sort of consumer protection in the US? Why is it up to the media to discover unsafe products?
 
O

otapnam

Member
psychotron said:
I bought engineered hardwood to replace the toxic shit. The hardest part is moving all the furniture. Just cleared the room and am about to begin. Wish me luck, lol.
Click to expand...

I had bought engineered hardwood from LL 3 years ago so im ok right? It was just laminate materials that had issues?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
USAF experts foresaw problems with F-22 early; solutions rejected as too pricey
28
3K
TacticalFox88 replied
  • Locked
Did anyone watch that segment on 60 minutes about the The Food Flavoring Industry?
2
88
9K
SapientWolf replied
  • Locked
The Air at Ground Zero - Vanity Fair Magazine
6
569
FortNinety replied
Top Bottom