Poodlestrike
Banned
I mean, not your idea of fun, but other people's? Sure.
I like Unsets okay. Not every joke lands but that's not the end of the world.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Magic: the Gathering |OT12| Hour of Devastation - Hour of Jace getting dunked on
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
I mean, not your idea of fun, but other people's? Sure.
I like Unsets okay. Not every joke lands but that's not the end of the world.
are there any details on the new unset other than the fact it exists
like, if it's another barely playable bunch of 200 puns with full art basics it's a disaster, but i could see them trying to do a conspiracy-style draft environment where they came up with a bunch of weird mechanics that would be cool for a few drafts and kitchen table stuff. there's also like, the very obvious idea of reprints for staples with really dumb art - snapcaster as a giant hand snapping kind of shit. the last idea would obviously be divisive, but there's wiggle room for this thing not to just completely suck.
like, if it's another barely playable bunch of 200 puns with full art basics it's a disaster, but i could see them trying to do a conspiracy-style draft environment where they came up with a bunch of weird mechanics that would be cool for a few drafts and kitchen table stuff. there's also like, the very obvious idea of reprints for staples with really dumb art - snapcaster as a giant hand snapping kind of shit. the last idea would obviously be divisive, but there's wiggle room for this thing not to just completely suck.
Rosewater said he designed it to be drafted so I assume it will be more... playable...
I must say though that people at my LGS are really excited to draft the new unset.
SigmasonicX
Member
To be clear, the other two Unsets were designed to be drafted too.
He has said that there will be cards aimed at Commander and Cube players, though.
Hour of Devastation seems like a good argument for why they are getting rid of small sets. All in all it seems pretty unexciting, I'm probably not the only one who's much more interested in Ixalan. Can't help but think of HoD as a filler set to tide us over the Summer gap before we can go back to the good stuff
the Scarab God is cool, though
the Scarab God is cool, though
I blame the exert board wipe for skewing my expectations for HOU. I was very interested in the set and then as more and more cards got revealed my interest deflated pretty hard. I think part of it is Kaladesh has skewed standard so much into aggro strats that I am continuing to feel strong disinterest from the format.
I think HOU sealed will be pretty fun though at the moment.
I think HOU sealed will be pretty fun though at the moment.
Because it takes away development time from other sets! Which is reeeeeaaaalllly bad!!!! Please think of people with no humor!
Well, it's at least not as stupid argument as that I read today where somebody said the government shouldn't focus on transgender laws, because they need they need the time for things that are actually important to people!
So many people act like WOTC is hanging on by a thread (capital wise) and any slight misstep will be the death-knell for the company.
They are fine, as is Hasbro.
No idea, it's just irrational hate I developed. I was around for both Unglued and Unhinged and they made me hate their awful, cringy attempt at humour. Never said there was logic involved!
Dude you will get to buy a lot of silver-bordered cancer in a few months, you "humorous" people won, no need to rub it in our faces.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Well they are the sort of company that could never return to Kamigawa for monetary reasons.
charlequin
Banned
Yep. The article today even talks about the elements that go into designing a small set and the ways that they worked to position HOU as similar, but not too similar, to AKH, and even though they clearly got very close to their target it's still just not that cool.
Yeah, Magic has been a huge earner for them for going on a decade now and even with the growth plateauing somewhat it's still one of the individual biggest brands at Hasbro. Given their investment with the hypothetical movie, the upcoming digital platform, etc. they're pretty clearly in it for the medium-to-long haul and a given product bombing or whatever doesn't have much impact on that.
We mostly just know it's designed with modern sensibilities, and that a ton of people in R&D signed off on it to some degree. I would expect a larger proportion of the set than previous entries to be stuff that cares about interesting things black-border can't (art, rarity, expansion, exact text, name, etc.), does not particularly jokey but unusual stuff (like Who//What//Where//When//Why, Blast From The Past, and Booster Tutor), or does general-purpose rulebreaking on stuff that couldn't work in competitive play (like Staying Power, R&D's Secret Lair, or Look at Me I'm R&D.)
Yes, and if you realize that their contemporaries were Urza's Saga and Kamigawa respectively it's a little clearer just how good "designed for drafting" was at the time.
Modern is probably the single best constructed format to buy into at this point.
That's not monetary reasons, it's just the fact that there's literally no upside to doing it.
If one was going to "buy in" to a format, EDH and Modern would be the only 2 reccomendations I would give. Target the cards that have the most overlap in decks- Fetchlands, Thoughtsieze, ect. There are tons of expensive cards that really only have a single home in the format (Mox Opal, Fulminator Mage, Scapeshift, Through the Breach) or are incredibly fungible (Horizon Canopy, the Zen fetchlands in a lot of strategies), but targeting stuff like Noble Hierarch, Snapcaster Mage ect that see play in several different top decks is never a bad choice
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
You can't at the same be arguing there's an upside to revisiting an unset but not to revisiting Kamigawa and ignoring MaRos literal words.
MaRo tumblr said:
I guess those are reasonable answers, but redirect effects are a bit limited in edh I think, and go better typically with blue.
I guess the complaint I have is that for the places that the card will see play is in casual environments and if fun is their whole purpose then this is a poorly designed card and doesn't make people want to continue playing.
Imperfected
Member
I mean, there was a serious (and I would argue needlessly intense) argument up-thread about how a cellphone picture of a mythic print sheet was going to tank the LGS cottage industry, if people want to question the commercial viability of Un-sets that doesn't seem like a bridge too far.
The only reason I'm not is because I honestly have no idea how well they sell, other than I don't know anyone at all who buys them. Maybe it's made up for by some weirdos who buy entire playsets of the junk.
The only reason I'm not is because I honestly have no idea how well they sell, other than I don't know anyone at all who buys them. Maybe it's made up for by some weirdos who buy entire playsets of the junk.
SigmasonicX
Member
IIRC, he said a while ago that Unsets did better than the Kamigawa sets.
EDIT: Here
EDIT: And another
Remembrance
Member
There are people who only know Magic through Un-sets like how there are people who only know music through Weird Al and Postmodern Jukebox.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That's amazing but besides the point. Yes magic is doing well for Hasbro but they appear to care very much about profitability and spending as little as possible.
Only look as far as embalm tokens.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
Un sets selling better than Kamigawa sets makes them even more hilarious to me.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
The only Un-card I have ever seriously looked at buying is Ashnod's Coupon.
While I think Legacy is probably the "best" constructed format, Modern is probably the best to buy into, as it's significantly cheaper, has a larger playerbase, and more tourneys.
I'm not sure what to recommend as far as buying in goes. I don't typically like the idea of associating with a single deck, as it's rare for one deck to be the best deck for a tourney for a long period of time, so I tend to recommend changing archetypes entirely month to month.
That said, I recognize you do have to start somewhere. Grixis Death's Shadow is the current "best deck", although it's definitely beatable, and it features a large number of modern staples that can branch into other decks should you so choose/in the unlikely event ds is banned. The deck has a good number of fetches, discard staples, snapcaster mage, tasigur, kolaghan's command- pretty much everything aside from death's shadow itself and street wraith would continue to see play somewhere if DS/street wraith were banned, so I wouldn't feel bad at all about investing into it.
The bigger hesitation I have in recommending the deck is that it's a bit harder to pilot than your average deck and you do need to either be familiar with how the other decks operate or willing to jump in the deep end and learn to get the most out of its discard spells and stubborn denials. I think that's a great way to learn the format personally, but it's definitely a lot harder than just picking up a linear deck and going to town.
As far as current format positioning goes, I stand by my pick from a few weeks ago- the tempo burn variants of Jeskai Control are currently the best positioned deck in modern, especially if hate bears and affinity go on the rise alongside DS and the various counters company decks. Its expensive pieces are fetches- which will transfer to other decks and retain value, snapcasters- which are good buys as well, Celestial Colonnades and Cryptics- which are decent buys as long as you're interested in control of some sort long term, and various sideboard pieces, which will have utility in their colors for years to come. Picking up this deck is definitely more of a meta choice, though, than just going with DS.
If you wanted something more linear, affinity is as good a buy as ever, although its recent success may shift the sideboard balance back to having a decent chunk of artifact hate. The deck is "easy" to do well with, but hard to master, as it has some of the trickiest combat math possible among all decks. While Mox Opal comes up as a possible ban target from time to time, I don't think they will seriously pull the trigger as the deck has never been oppressive in modern and is, in many ways, a good threat to have around to force sideboard decisions to have some amount of tension. The staples in the deck, though, are only good here, so it won't be as easy to transition to other decks from this. (Outside of the Mox Opal itself, which would presumably the only ban target and, thus, the only reason to ever worry about shifting the pieces to another deck)
Grixis Death's Shadow list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/680976#online
Jeskai Control list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/658270#online
Affinity list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/677415#online
That covers midrange, "control", and aggro; if you really want to play combo, you could look at picking up the new counters company lists which feature a number of staples prevalent across the format alongside a new infinite combo powered by vizier of remedies, but I'd personally recommend Valakut Breach/Titan Shift from a meta perspective. The deck is well positioned at the moment, with few weak common matchups. It's worth noting, however, that outside the ramp/valakut archetypes, few of the Titan Shift staples will transition to other decks, so Counters Company is definitely a better buy if that's your primary concern.
Counters Company list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-devoted-company#online
Valakut Breach list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/677689#online
I'm not sure how serious you were being but no, I am not "kink shaming" spanking. The card references frat hazing which is decently crontoversial (at least in the states) as it results in multiple deaths per year. The practice is in the news every year once college classes get started up.
Infinite Stars
Member
Modern is the best constructed format not called EDH.
Also, great intro Modern Decks(that are relatively stable in terms of cards used) include Elves(GB is generally the way to go due to Shaman of the Pack), Merfolk, Affinity, etc.
The biggest pitfall is buying into a deck following it doing well at one event (IE Skred) and then watching as it becomes worse and worse. Luckily, I'd say most every good idea can viable at competitive provided you know enough about how your deck works/the meta.
Also, great intro Modern Decks(that are relatively stable in terms of cards used) include Elves(GB is generally the way to go due to Shaman of the Pack), Merfolk, Affinity, etc.
The biggest pitfall is buying into a deck following it doing well at one event (IE Skred) and then watching as it becomes worse and worse. Luckily, I'd say most every good idea can viable at competitive provided you know enough about how your deck works/the meta.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Hadn't elves switched to GW because of Vizier? You're already running CoCos and Chord and devited druid is an elf and Ezuri is a win through infinite mana.
blindrocket
Member
That is what I have seen recently.
ClayKavalier
Banned
Man, I'm surprised at the reactions to the Unset. I don't play any more, I was really into Magic in middle school and high school and dropped it in college mostly because I couldn't afford it, but I still like to lurk in these threads to see what's going on in new expansions and stuff. I always thought the Un-sets were really fun, my friends and I all loved them and they're an awesome fan service, self-reflecting, why-the-hell-not kind of thing. They're basically to Magic what Hot Fuzz is to action movies, and I always thought it was really cool that Wizard invested in something that's sort of pointless but that they clearly have fun making.
I always thought they were really popular, beloved by the community, honestly kind of disappointed that apparently many people view it as a waste of resources.
I always thought they were really popular, beloved by the community, honestly kind of disappointed that apparently many people view it as a waste of resources.
Most online communities that you see online are going to skew toward competitive and semi-competitive players. Casual players are the silent majority and there are plenty of them that are excited for Unstable.
cooltrainer
Member
I think it's probably better liked that the general vibe of this thread. Me and my friends thought they were fun too, a lot of memorable experiences at the Unhinged prerelease. I really don't see it as a significant drain on resources. If you don't like it don't buy it. I'm not gonna get into Archenemy or a ton of other shit they put out, and no one is requiring anyone to buy it. Let people have fun with it.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
I would say Skred is still in a pretty good place right now. Skred itself can get big enough to kill the big Shadow creatures, and maindeck Moon still wins against alot of decks, Anger defeats the go-wide plans. If I didn't want to pay 50 dollars for basics I would try building it.
1 Cathartic Reunion does the job.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Also goes well with Burning Inquiry in older formats.
The odds that you have at least 1 Hollow One in hand after performing T1 Burning Inquiry is 34% on the play, which is pretty good
charlequin
Banned
My point is that a Kamigawa return takes up a main set slot, which are very limited; an Un-set takes up a "slot" that would just have nothing otherwise, and mostly doesn't use up limited bandwidth in R&D or anything. The opportunity cost of an Un-set is smaller.
Like, I guess it's pretty accurate to say that in a sense it is "monetary reasons." It's just that those reasons aren't "we can't afford to take a risk" but rather "we have much safer choices and much higher-upside risks we could use this slot for instead."
This is a good writeup to which I have little to add; I mostly wanted to say that I recommended Modern for basically this exact list of reasons (plus the fact that it has a reasonable metagame now.)
Our thread (for a variety of reasons) leans heavily to casual-competitive (as in not a huge time investment but play primarily tourney formats) players, so basically the opposite of the target audience. As a whole we tend to be a bit more negative even on a lot of things that are glowingly received elsewhere, like Conspiracy. There's a ton of love for the Un-sets elsewhere.
SigmasonicX
Member
In a deck that already wants to use Cathartic Reunion, it seems like it would be easy enough to slot in Hollow One. Probably not the best build, but the turn 2 4x Hollow One Christmasland scenario would be amazing when it happens.
EDIT: Wait, they will still be (1) each without an additional discard outlet, never mind.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Street Wraith baby
Man who is hating on Conspiracy? Those sets are fun times, and I appreciate the new cards.
Buying into eldrazi tron. Thoughts on the deck? I just need chalices (spiking a ton I know) and a couple eyes to make stompy in legacy.
The good thing is that all the additional pieces for legacy I already own (save the eyes) and city of traitors is not specifically needed for the most part. It's a bit less all in compared with red stompy and having a bunch of 5/5s is much more reasonable in terms of winning compared with 2 damage via Chandra or pinging people with your draws with Hazoret or sin prodder.
The good thing is that all the additional pieces for legacy I already own (save the eyes) and city of traitors is not specifically needed for the most part. It's a bit less all in compared with red stompy and having a bunch of 5/5s is much more reasonable in terms of winning compared with 2 damage via Chandra or pinging people with your draws with Hazoret or sin prodder.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You just cast it with Cathartic Reunion or even discarding three to make it cost 0.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
4x Street Wraith
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Hollow One
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Bedlam Reveller
4x Faithless Looting
4x Cathartic Reunion
4x Manamorphose
4x Rite of Flame
4x Call to the Netherworld
4x Burning Inquiry
16x Mountain
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Hollow One
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Bedlam Reveller
4x Faithless Looting
4x Cathartic Reunion
4x Manamorphose
4x Rite of Flame
4x Call to the Netherworld
4x Burning Inquiry
16x Mountain
Conspiracy is actually the reason I'm more down on unsets now than ever before. It's provides a space where they can experiment with "wackier" designs, create a draft-centric experience first and foremost, and print eternal staples without having to worry about screwing up standard/modern. It's true that they can't go full ham there in the same way you can go all in on jokes in an Unset, but I think opening cards that actually have some value in your collection and can be used again in other casual and competitive formats once you've drafted with them instead of being literally useless is worth the tradeoff. Previously, it could be argued that such an experimental space didn't exist, so unsets at least had that going for them.
But, at the end of the day, it is a totally personal preference and a selfish desire; I won't pretend otherwise. And, yes, this is coming from a primarily competitive pov.
I do think (perhaps mistakenly so) that the consumer for an unset would probably enjoy/get as much value or more out of a conspiracy like set tailored more towards the casual/fun side of things than they would an unset and I can find value there too, so that's why I consider them a less optimal use of resources. I can't prove it of course. I don't feel strongly about it all, to be clear; I just wouldn't ever choose to have an unset even in a supplementary slot if the call were purely up to me.
(On a less important note, I also dislike un-sets because they tend to be pretty ugly, with the less serious theming and frame breaking that goes on. I do enjoy the art that gets put out- even in supplementary products I don't touch- so it's just another area where the set is a wasted opportunity to me.)
Rock solid choice, assuming you mean the modern deck. (haven't played legacy eldrazi as city of traitors are out of my price range) Eldrazi Tron has continued to put up decent to good results this past month, and it's not quite public enemy enough to be targeted too heavily by sideboards right now. I personally don't like playing tron decks, (or playing against them) but there's no denying that Eldrazi Tron is a good deck anymore. Just watch Todd Stevens and see what he continues to do with the list.
But, at the end of the day, it is a totally personal preference and a selfish desire; I won't pretend otherwise. And, yes, this is coming from a primarily competitive pov.
I do think (perhaps mistakenly so) that the consumer for an unset would probably enjoy/get as much value or more out of a conspiracy like set tailored more towards the casual/fun side of things than they would an unset and I can find value there too, so that's why I consider them a less optimal use of resources. I can't prove it of course. I don't feel strongly about it all, to be clear; I just wouldn't ever choose to have an unset even in a supplementary slot if the call were purely up to me.
(On a less important note, I also dislike un-sets because they tend to be pretty ugly, with the less serious theming and frame breaking that goes on. I do enjoy the art that gets put out- even in supplementary products I don't touch- so it's just another area where the set is a wasted opportunity to me.)
Rock solid choice, assuming you mean the modern deck. (haven't played legacy eldrazi as city of traitors are out of my price range) Eldrazi Tron has continued to put up decent to good results this past month, and it's not quite public enemy enough to be targeted too heavily by sideboards right now. I personally don't like playing tron decks, (or playing against them) but there's no denying that Eldrazi Tron is a good deck anymore. Just watch Todd Stevens and see what he continues to do with the list.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
you could totally reprint booster tutor in conspiracy 3.
- Status