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Marathon approaching 15k CCU low (sponsored by coachmcguirk91 - still having a blast)
Darchaos
Gold Member
Probably the devs
duck_sauce
Member
I bite.
The skins / Runners in Marathon are great. The game isn't failing because of its art style.
Marathon is in the #omega genre and it has great gameplay.
The artstyle is great too and "real" pvp gamers don't care about "looks" anyway.
Why is Marathon failing exactly? In your opinion.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Hars to really say considering how big and ambitious the genre is. I think Marathon is too difficult to surf the wave.
- Skill gap too high
- Squad fill is awful
- Cryo Archive not compelling enough
Marathons ceiling will innately be limmited due to it's arena shooter DNA but it's floor is higher than what we saw from S1. Marathon is great if you're a higher skill than the average and can consistently play with friends. It's much choppier for everyone else.
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Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
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Kronark
Member
But to sell people on the game and gameplay you have to get them in the door. How many people have to tell you they think Marathon looks like crap before you believe them?
I don't think it looks like shit personally, but enough people have told me that they do that I believe they feel that way subjectively. The sales numbers back up their statements about the game being unappealing.
falconhoof
Member
Game is simply too good for players.
That's how different the OmegaGenre is, a game without players.
That's how different the OmegaGenre is, a game without players.
lifa-cobex
Member
Yes they do.
That's why microtransactions for skins are a thing.
Bungie especially knows this from Destiny 1/2
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
LOL. Division 2 came out so long ago, PS5 and SX werent even out yet. Apex Legends just released. Lebron James hadnt even finished his first year on Lakers yet. And covid wouldnt happen for another year!Game is simply too good for players.
That's how different the OmegaGenre is, a game without players.
And it was first sold on PC in the Epic store and UBI launcher for years. It didnt come to Steam until 2023. Yet even leftover Steam sales have higher CCU than Marathon.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
If I'm at a flat earth society convention, I don't start believing in a flat earth after the 100th person tells me it's flat.
The types of people who say the art style limited Marathons success almost always fall into one of two categories...
1. Weird parasocial relationship with Bungie.
2. Not a PvP player.
I've never heard anyone on Marathon say they're thinking of quitting the game, or they can't get their friends to play, because of the art style. Y'all just don't get PvP culture.
Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
You're correct but see that's what he's insinuating is "real" pvp players don't care and why his elitist attitude is dogshit
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Top sellers list. An ARC Raiders costume set is selling more $$$ than all of Marathon. On the plus side, at least Marathon is selling more than a 9 year old hunting game.
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Zacfoldor
Gold Member
If something that minor goosed the numbers, imagine the goosing that will happen for S2 launch...
I've always thought the artstyle was chosen as a way to differentiate the game from Destiny 2.
They have a lot of biomes in that game and its running on the same engine. The decking out in neon gives Marathon a super distinct look vs D2 and allows them to avoid comments like "this is just a mode from D2."
It appears so ostentatious because anything else would have drawn those comparisons to D2. They couldn't really give Marathon the graphics bump over D2 they needed but they could mess with the colors. Personally I don't think it matters as a turnoff reason, but I do think a mil-sim artstyle would have potentially brought in an additional audience. I just don't think they could pull that off in this engine nor was it ever really considered. Bungie have never been a mil-sim style dev it's always sci-fi with Bungie.
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Kronark
Member
Ok let's try the opposite line of thought then, why didn't Marathon sell better? Not just to the people in this thread, but gamers as a whole.
- Is there a grand conspiracy where all gamers just actually hate good games?
- Did this Neogaf thread and a few youtubers single handledly dethrone the next Fortnite?
- Is the entire world composed entirely of bitter Ex-Destiny players like me?
- Is there a grand conspiracy against extraction shooters that somehow skipped Arc Raiders?
I have seen a ton of people (Not all to be fair) say "Hey the art style isn't working for me.", maybe expressing it a little less eloquently but the sentiment is the same. I can't prove this 100% but it's the feedback I'm seeing from people about a subjective opinion they hold. Short of mind reading I don't have any information that would counter that theory... If I had evidence that these people all received $1000 deposits from the Anti-Bungie Foundation, I'd take them less seriously but that doesn't seem to be the case.
I love a lot of niche stuff and am super used to people not caring about the things I love dearly. It does not surprise me in the slightest that Marathon doesn't click with a lot of people.
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lifa-cobex
Member
Real actual virgins.
falconhoof
Member
I showed the game to one of my Hunt playing friends, he looked at it for about 15 seconds and said "Nah, I ain't playing that".
He clearly didn't make that decision because he ain't into the genre, or even much due to the gameplay, what can you really tell of it in 15 seconds other than what it looks like. LEGO puke.
Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
The reason I feel the art style is a huge portion is because most people aren't online getting into the minutiae of bungie and how they're all just a bunch of lgbtq1iafages and steal art and all that, most people I don't feel knows about that tbh.
But what they do know is they see a new game and it's ugly ass Characters and ugly fucking ui, ugly guns, ugly everything and then hear what kind of game it is and say nah, fuck that. That is imo the hierarchy of how this goes.
But what they do know is they see a new game and it's ugly ass Characters and ugly fucking ui, ugly guns, ugly everything and then hear what kind of game it is and say nah, fuck that. That is imo the hierarchy of how this goes.
BbMajor7th
Member
It's a game which manages to be divisive on many fronts, which creates a multilayered filter:
- GAAS is divisive
- High difficulty is divisive
- The art style is divisive
- Dense, unintuitive UI and systems are divisive
- The genre is divisive
- Priced live-service is divisive
- Even FPS is a bit divisive in 2026
Even if each of these issues splits gaming audiences 50/50 it won't be the same 50/50 every time. Your audience has to be people who like intensely sweaty, paid-for, live-service, FPS extraction shooters with a distinct neon art-style, a steep learning curve and a sci-fi setting. It's a very specific audience. Bungie haven't made an extraction shooter that would to appeal to pretty much anyone who likes extraction shooters (small audience though it already is), they've made something which likely only appeals to a small number of that already small number.
Compare this to ARC Raiders: it's a more chill, third-person shooter, with a fairly run of the mill art style and post-apocalyptic setting, friendlier onboarding and fewer high-pressure systems that demand continued engagement. Most ordinary people can jump into ARC and have a few hours fun without much trouble, Marathon feels designed to actively filter all but the most specific niche of players.
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Pop
Member
Game looks like ass
Gameplay/Gunplay is a reskinned D2 with heavy iron boots on(recycled enemies)
Maps are pathetic
Art is rainbow trash
ARC is much better graphically and gameplay
$40 is outrageous when you could just but better games in the genre
calico
Member
I assumed the inclusion of the quote in which you are talking specifically about Marathon and refer to Marathon by name would be enough of a clue even for you.
Was your launch prediction so far out with those other games too?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Now go show him Fortnite and Valorant and tell us what he says.
Kronark
Member
I agree with this assessment largely. I'd even add a few reasons to it like a lack of trust with Bungie specifically.
I more so just wanted to know what Mr Boxes thinks directly because he's rejected the art argument and compared us to flat earthers. He's gone from this will be the biggest game ever at launch to backtracking about how actually the game has issues right now but it'll actually peak at the launch of season 2, trust. The problem with this line of thought is that you need to play the game first to know all those problems exist. I'm just trying to understand why he thinks the launch went so poorly or who he thinks the enemy is. It can't possibly be this thread because this thread didn't exist until launch day.
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Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
You are deluding yourself if you really believe that. The types of people who dislike Marathon's artstyle is much broader and wider than you listed.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
You either fall into slot 1 or 2.
You avoid answering my question about why the art styles of Fortnite, Valorant, Rust, League of Legends, and PUBG didn't hold those games back...but Marathon, which launched looking better than all of them, somehow hurt its chances?
Moridianae
Member
Honestly, Steam doesn't tell you the whole picture of Division 2 because of how it used to be sold on PC for so long.
That game actually has way more players than even Destiny 2 and Marathon combined, honestly.
They are working on cross-play, but even Countdown, which is a big group thing you can queue for always had/has instantaneous queues at all hours of the day when I've played and thats PS4/PS5 population only. And very, very rarely would you see the same name in your group.
Very popular game.
That game actually has way more players than even Destiny 2 and Marathon combined, honestly.
They are working on cross-play, but even Countdown, which is a big group thing you can queue for always had/has instantaneous queues at all hours of the day when I've played and thats PS4/PS5 population only. And very, very rarely would you see the same name in your group.
Very popular game.
BbMajor7th
Member
He thinks other people are flat-earthers? Holy projection, Batman.
Hari Seldon
Member
I am really enjoying his trolling in this thread, but it is definitely a waste of effort. No amount of convincing will make normies want to play as loot piñatas for sweats.
Plague Doctor
Member
It's been hovering around 1.5k and 2k less WoW all day, so the uptick in the new queue plus Cryo isn't been doing much to begin with.
Edit: Ofcourse, we need to see how it peaks today to see the definitive WoW change.
Edit 2: It's out of the top 200 best sellers list on Steam.
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calico
Member
The art style is for sure a part of that initial rejection by the market I was talking about, and has the added disadvantage of making it difficult for themselves to sell cosmetic mtx.
People were not weighing whether to buy the game or not at launch and deciding not to because of some obscure mechanical detail. Retention and word of mouth post-launch may be able to be coped away with such trivialities; the initial rejection by the market cannot be.
People were not weighing whether to buy the game or not at launch and deciding not to because of some obscure mechanical detail. Retention and word of mouth post-launch may be able to be coped away with such trivialities; the initial rejection by the market cannot be.
The Mad Draklor
Member
As I always say, you can only have one first impression.
Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
I mean just scanning at the extraction games, arc is the only one with a respectable number I'm seeing. The rest are shit, just going by steam.
Zacfoldor
Gold Member
That is Marathon's biggest problem. It stumbled a bit out of the gate and there are some people that just won't come back.
Most escape from tarkov players use the bsg launcher instead of steam, so it is really big outside of steam.
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Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
That is your very subjective opinion. I would wager the majority of gamers do not agree with you on that.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Here why you know the art style is a problem: imagine a Bungie WW2 extraction shooter. Probably worth 3x higher launch numbers.
Default is dude(tm)
Readable
Fan favorite, under served
Recognized studio trying something new
Understandable UI
Limited backstory/lore
Reduced ability to be so off putting
Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
Yea If bungie made any type of WW shooter like that I'd play it easily, it already intrigues me and is something I wish was a reality.
RafterXL
Member
Let's be honest, for all the people like those of us in this thread who know Bungies history and keep tabs on this stuff, there are thousands of people who just see games on a surface level and know next to nothing about the developers or even the games themselves. If you put a gun to my head and asked me the singular reason this game is a failure, I'd love to tell you it's because people are sick of Bungies bullshit, but the truth is it's a repulsive looking game to the majority of people. I think most people looked at it, instantly hated the way it looks, and said "no thanks".
falconhoof
Member
That is your very subjective opinion. I would wager the majority of gamers do not agree with you on that.
He's being tricky with his approach on this.
Marathon launched after being developed by a full scale AAA team on a large budget with no signals that it was going to be anything other than a full on release, similar to Arc.
Games like Tarkov released very, very early, by a small team, with full intention of developing and growing live. I'm pretty sure Tarkov was labelled as alpha.
Deep Rock is another game that gets thrown around. Also released as basically an MVP title, I think it might have used some Xbox test partner program so the game could be developed live up to a 1.0 status.
Hunt from what I remember did come in a rough state, it had development issues, an identity crisis, and did basically need a relaunch. I think it had a name change to go with it. However, we're still talking in a different league to the budget and push that Bungie took with Marathon.
Boxes uses his "Marathon is in early access" defense, despite there being zero signal from Bungie that it's anything of that description. Figuratively given the state of the game you can say so, but you can't use it as a defense when it's a fully paid for release containing no such label. Little Timmy popping on his playstation just sees it like any other game; maybe aside from the gross art.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
He has to use that angle because Marathon launched with such little content people laugh at it. So he has to try to convince everyone the game is itching to have to tons of content later. The game has been in the works since 2019 and has used up tons of Bungie people and money, got a 6 months delay, and it had a full release launch for $40 with only 3 maps. And the maps arent even giant like ARC or Tarkov.
By the time S2 is over (6 months), the game's biggest content drops will be one new class and two new maps. So the grand total will still only be 5. One of them is a night version of an existing one. And one of them isnt even a traditional map (cryo). Also, the roadmap is so unclear there isnt even any S3 info yet. Even games like Highguard and Mindseye have bigger road maps spanning a year.
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purvispisgah
Member
Have you spent much time reading about the concept of disgust response?
I find it fascinating, especially as it pertains to concepts of morality and how it shapes people's political views, but that's a significant digression.
Anyway, I find the artstyle of Marathon aesthetically disgusting, and I doubt I'm alone. So disgusting, in fact, that it almost seems pointless to try to explain. It's just revolting. I want to laugh (at best) or look away (at worst). Those other games you mentioned are various degrees of aesthetically fine, imo.
And, unlike chess, videogames rely on aesthetics both to draw in a player, but also to convey information. Marathon does both of those things poorly, again, imo.
Guilty_AI
Member
Not marathon specifically, but i've had multiple people taking a single look at different games just go "nope". So its definitely something that happens.
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KimDongHwan
Member
At the risk of sounding like a casual gamer (which I am regarding GaaS games) - this guy is not making any favor to the communication of this game - basically nothing he says is triggering even one ounce of desire to buy/try the game and the reason is he is like talking in terms of what the people that are already playing the game understand:
* UPDATE: WALKING THE PERIMETER - what is this??
* Experimental queue - what is this? what is even the regular queue? or more importantly, why would we care?
* and shifting the Sponsored Marsh map to Sponsored Perimeter - ?????
* to have a free (green/enhanced tier) sponsored kit equipped to queue. - is this something that people were complaining about? what was the problem?
* To commemorate this experiment we will also be upping the floor on sponsored kits. - what are kits, and what makes them sponsored?
You get my point, basically this guy is the Game Director and I think his posts should be much more digestible for both people that played the game and for people looking forward to play, or that don't know about the game but be potential buyers.
Something like "We heard your complaints, we categorized them into the following bucketed problems" and then describe the problems in terms of the human aspect of the problems like "People are not having fun because they get killed too fast - for this we will be doing X because of Y" "People are not liking the style - We are adding the option for now to do X, and in the future we will evaluate doing Y".
Just a suggestion though.
Tams
Member
Mate, it's fucking ugly; an eyesore.
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