lmao, I forgot all about this.
That season was one of the worst things I've ever seen on TV. How many fucking times did Charlotte Rampling say the word psychopath?
Also psychopaths were like superhumans or something.
lmao, I forgot all about this.
That season was one of the worst things I've ever seen on TV. How many fucking times did Charlotte Rampling say the word psychopath?
doesn't seem like this show took advantage of that character studyYou guys know that Rand being white is part of his character, right? And a big part of his relationship with Cage.
Like yeah, they could have cast an Asian actor just for the sake of it, but Iron Fist is not an Asian character.
You guys know that Rand being white is part of his character, right? And a big part of his relationship with Cage.
Like yeah, they could have cast an Asian actor just for the sake of it, but Iron Fist is not an Asian character.
Oh great, here we go again.
doesn't seem like this show took advantage of that character study
the marvel Netflix shows have played fast and loose with all sorts of canon, they could have had a new take or perspective on the character on danny rand
Honestly if the show wasn't bad, I wouldn't be complaining as much but having a mighty whitey thing in this day and age is pretty dumb
what it all comes down to, asian actor or no, they could have alleviated all of the concerns about race if they made a good show that played with the character of danny randYeah, the show seemingly sucks and plays that angle, which is no good.
I think a radically different take on the character could have been interesting, but that's not the route they chose. And once it was clear they weren't going radically different, I don't see the merit in casting an Asian actor just for the sake of it.
what it all comes down to, asian actor or no, they could have alleviated all of the concerns about race if they made a good show that played with the character of danny rand
they didn't make a good show so this criticism will naturally come out as a "what if"
There's nothing that white Danny Rand needs to do that Asian-American Danny Rand couldn't also do. Plus, Asian-American Danny Rand can do more, because an American-born Asian American guy, fully Americanized, being thrust into the culture of or like that of his ancestors, is a story that has rarely been told before.You guys know that Rand being white is part of his character, right? And a big part of his relationship with Cage.
Like yeah, they could have cast an Asian actor just for the sake of it, but Iron Fist is not an Asian character.
Plot idea: Danny Rand is the child of Asian immigrants who built up a business empire. Rand itself is an Americanized name adopted by the first generation immigrants in the face of anti-Asian racism. Danny is still a guy who, once he gets his wealth back, can impulse buy an Lamborghini. But the story and character threads that can be explored are more, not less.
I'm serious. What is the argument for making the character Asian in this instance? Representation for the sake of representation? Or because there are actually good ideas and perspectives to explore with it? Because if Marvel makes that decision for the latter reason, then that's great and interesting. But if it's the former driving their choice, it's a bad idea.
I'm serious. What is the argument for making the character Asian in this instance? Representation for the sake of representation? Or because there are actually good ideas and perspectives to explore with it? Because if Marvel makes that decision for the latter reason, then that's great and interesting. But if it's the former driving their choice, it's a bad idea.
Yeah, the show seemingly sucks and plays that angle, which is no good.
I think a radically different take on the character could have been interesting, but that's not the route they chose. And once it was clear they weren't going radically different, I don't see the merit in casting an Asian actor just for the sake of it.
This is a great post.Sure. I'd say it can be both. The predominant issue is that the "mighty whitey" theme cuts deeper than just representation; it's a phenomenon with ugly historical connotations exacerbated by the lack of equity that continues to plague racial relations in the US. The lack of leading roles for Asian American actors just further problematizes that issue. I think criticizing "representation for the sake of representation" is a shallow argument, but that's besides the point.
But an Asian American Iron Fist does in fact open up valuable and meaningful narrative perspectives. It becomes a chance to show that Asians are not a monolith, and that the Asian American experience is distinct and conflicting and challenging. It becomes the opportunity to navigate a crisis of heritage and identity, rather than a simple culture clash. Stranded abroad, lost in translation stories are a dime a dozen. The story of an individual caught between worlds and alienated from both is fruitful ground.
Not to mention the intersection of privilege and racial identity is another compelling theme. The story of a privileged rich white guy, is, let's be honest, very well-tread ground. The story of a privileged rich Asian American however has the potential to explore the model minority stereotype, aspirations towards "whiteness," the clash between race and class, conflict between non-white demographics, and more.
And the last point provides a really interesting foundation for the relationship between Iron Fist and Luke Cage. Their friendship is undercut by the tension between a rich white man juxtaposed with a black man from the streets. But imagine the tension between two people of color, one far more privileged than the other. That kind of suspicion and discord really does exist between the black and Asian American communities; some black people think that Asians have sold out to white supremacy, some Asians think black people haven't pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. That kind of conflict is rarely ever explored and would be really interesting to see on the screen.
Sure. I'd say it can be both. The predominant issue is that the "mighty whitey" theme cuts deeper than just representation; it's a phenomenon with ugly historical connotations exacerbated by the lack of equity that continues to plague racial relations in the US. The lack of leading roles for Asian American actors just further problematizes that issue. I think criticizing "representation for the sake of representation" is a shallow argument, but that's besides the point.
But an Asian American Iron Fist does in fact open up valuable and meaningful narrative perspectives. It becomes a chance to show that Asians are not a monolith, and that the Asian American experience is distinct and conflicting and challenging. It becomes the opportunity to navigate a crisis of heritage and identity, rather than a simple culture clash. Stranded abroad, lost in translation stories are a dime a dozen. The story of an individual caught between worlds and alienated from both is fruitful ground.
Not to mention the intersection of privilege and racial identity is another compelling theme. The story of a privileged rich white guy, is, let's be honest, very well-tread ground. The story of a privileged rich Asian American however has the potential to explore the model minority stereotype, aspirations towards "whiteness," the clash between race and class, conflict between non-white demographics, and more.
And the last point provides a really interesting foundation for the relationship between Iron Fist and Luke Cage. Their friendship is undercut by the tension between a rich white man juxtaposed with a black man from the streets. But imagine the tension between two people of color, one far more privileged than the other. That kind of suspicion and discord really does exist between the black and Asian American communities; some black people think that Asians have sold out to white supremacy, some Asians think black people haven't pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. That kind of conflict is rarely ever explored and would be really interesting to see on the screen.
I wouldn't even have cared about Danny getting with Colleen if they had written the character to avoid any cultural appropriation traps and humbled him a lot.Everything I thought would happen with this show came true.
so many people need to eat crow based on other threads. like seriously, I knew the mighty whitey trope and white guy gets the asian girl was gonn a happen. just so obvious.
Show kid Danny being beaten by a treadmill, then after he gets back from training he beats a treadmill into a pulp. It's perfect.The show was doomed when they employed Scott "Treadmill" Buck. Wonder if we'll see something similar with the child actor playing Danny lol
I suffered through Luke Cage and Jessica Jones and Daredevil season 2. I'm going to watch this shit too. It was my most anticipated and goddamn it I want to see how much they fuck it up.
tfw every single Asian person is the same in a lot of people's eyes, especially asians who grew up in the west don't even speak Chinese or anything and haven't been to the home country at any point in their entire lives
oh well at least I can go out with Asian girls without being told I have yellow fever
now going out with a white girl, you get a bit more flak for that
What a missed opportunity this show is.
- Verge: Iron Fist isn't just racially uncomfortable, it's also a boring show.It may have seemed fine to crank out another Marvel Netflix show that feels like the brands past outings, but the critical drubbing that Iron Fist has received is in no small part due to the fact that its so stale and unoriginal. The reason the Marvel Cinematic Universe succeeded initially was because it offered a bevy of ideas and characters that were somewhat familiar, but also fresh and unlike anything else wed seen in superhero filmmaking. That mix of comfortingly old and boldly new is necessary for any brand or, indeed, any genre to go the distance. The failure of Iron Fist should serve as a cautionary tale: Its a time to change or die, and whichever studio learns it doesnt always have to maintain a white-knuckle grip on whats been done before will be the one that pulls ahead. Reimagination is just as important as imagination in superhero fiction. Its time to stop fearing it.
- Maureen Ryan at Variety: TV Review: Marvels Iron Fist on Netflix.Recently, Finn Jones quit Twitter after getting into a heated debate about representation in general, and Iron Fist specifically. He returned yesterday to release a statement: We have gone to great lengths to represent a diverse cast with an intelligent, socially progressive storyline. In truth, whatever he, Scott Buck, and Marvel attempted in getting this series right doesnt go far enough. The end result is more often a boring, confused, and offensive mess of a series, one thats as bad at diversity as it is telling a story that superhero fans will enjoy. It lacks the impact it so desperately needed after the successes of Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. And thats a shame. Fans feared the worst when the series was announced, and all their fears came true.
- EW: Iron Fist deserves to flunk out of the TV dojo.Not one element of this plodding piece works. The action scenes lack spark, snap, and originality. None of the flat, by-the-numbers characters makes any lasting impression. And as origin stories go, the tale of Danny Rand (Finn Jones), at least as rendered by this creative team, is about as exciting as a slice of Velveeta cheese left out in the sun too long. It takes forever for anything to happen on Iron Fist, and as it stumbles along, the uninspired production design, unexceptional cinematography, and painful dialogue fail to distract the viewer from the overall lack of depth, detail, or momentum.
Good luck, bingers: Getting through two episodes was a challenge.
- LA Weekly: The Tragedy of Marvels Iron Fist.Marvels Iron Fist isnt just the wimpiest punch ever thrown by the worlds mightiest superhero factory. The new Netflix binge swings and misses so bad that it spins itself around and slaps itself silly with a weirdly flaccid hand. But even that might be generous. Swing and a miss implies effort. Iron Fist devoid of vision, lacking in executional chops barely even tries. It assumes its own marvelousness and proceeds tediously from there, offering few satisfactions for any possible audience. The media was only given six of the seasons 13 episodes for review, but I was snoozing after two and ready to check out after three. This is yellow belt drama that deserves to flunk out of the TV dojo.
That the new Netflix/Marvel series repeats this premise is the least of its problems. Worse, it simply isnt entertaining. Each of the six episodes made available to critics proves a taxing affair where youre asked to invest in characters so thinly constructed they could be cardboard cutouts cleverly lit to resemble human beings. It demonstrates the limits of the Marvel brand and how desperately the superhero genre needs to evolve.
Review shooting gallery.
- EW: Iron Fist deserves to flunk out of the TV dojo.
Marvels Iron Fist isnt just the wimpiest punch ever thrown by the worlds mightiest superhero factory. The new Netflix binge swings and misses so bad that it spins itself around and slaps itself silly with a weirdly flaccid hand. But even that might be generous. Swing and a miss implies effort. Iron Fist devoid of vision, lacking in executional chops barely even tries. It assumes its own marvelousness and proceeds tediously from there, offering few satisfactions for any possible audience. The media was only given six of the seasons 13 episodes for review, but I was snoozing after two and ready to check out after three. This is yellow belt drama that deserves to flunk out of the TV dojo.
- Vulture: The Lesson of Marvels Iron Fist: Superhero Fiction Needs to Change or Die.
- Verge: Iron Fist isn't just racially uncomfortable, it's also a boring show.
- Maureen Ryan at Variety: TV Review: Marvels Iron Fist on Netflix.
- EW: Iron Fist deserves to flunk out of the TV dojo.
- LA Weekly: The Tragedy of Marvels Iron Fist.
Guess the reviewers were asking for too much money.Sweet fancy Moses. Guess those Marvel Checks didn't clear this time. Wow
Time to fire Ike.Disney right now.
Probably can't but they can kick off Scott Buck.Time to fire Ike.
Probably can't but they can kick off Scott Buck.
Time to fire Ike.
We need an acotrMarvel: We need a showrunner for Iron Fist.
Scott Buck:
How badly did Buck destroy Dexter? Was it in good condition before he took over?
How badly did Buck destroy Dexter? Was it in good condition before he took over?