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[Leyasu]

The thing is, EU has no authority on health management. That's one of the topics that are entirely under each member authority, for better or worse. The current situation would be a good opportunity to fix that actually, but for what it's worth it shows that we need more EU, not less of it.
Not that it would be an easy feat either. I mean if we had a EU-level management of the current crisis, it would probably mean we'd had to share our resources to fight the disease.

It is not about authority on health management. It is about the planning and coordination that should have been discussed when China announced a new SARS outbreak, then locked down 50 million people! The EU dis nothing. NOTHING! They should have had this planned out ffs. They had the time, the world had been warned. Like I said, a lockdown from the first detected case would have nipped this in the bud. We would be already reaping the benefits.... Instead we will reap the rewards of their handling for the next decade financially.. And the loss of life, suffering and anguish to countless people will be immeasurable,

More EU... We need an EU fit for purpose. Not this joke

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

Of course. I am in the EU, so I directed it towards them. The UN, Trump, The EU, there was no coordinated response, they all looked the other way. Everyone thought of their economies. Now though, the inaction is going to cost trillions. Borders MUST stay closed until lockdowns can eradicate it, a medecine is found that renders it no more than the flu or a vaccine. Or, borders open, and you are on 3 weeks quarantine before you are allowed out.

The negligence is staggering.

I think in this particular case, its best for each member to deal with it how they see fit, not all have the same needs and resources, hence having EU interfere wouldnt be ideal unless there was a massive funding.

 

[Leyasu]

Ok 4 times sorry my math was off. But you also have to take into account all the undocumented/illegal whatever you want to call them. I think USA population is closer to 350 million than 327 million.

But yes my math was off and its more like 4x rather than 5x.

It's alright. I didn't mean to be pedantic

 

[Alx]

It is not about authority on health management. It is about the planning and coordination that should have been discussed when China announced a new SARS outbreak, then locked down 50 million people! The EU dis nothing. NOTHING! They should have had this planned out ffs. They had the time, the world had been warned. Like I said, a lockdown from the first detected case would have nipped this in the bud. We would be already reaping the benefits.... Instead we will reap the rewards of their handling for the next decade financially.. And the loss of life, suffering and anguish to countless people will be immeasurable,

More EU... We need an EU fit for purpose. Not this joke

It's easy to say afterwards... nobody expected the epidemy to reach Europe with such strength. Especially after the SARS or H1N1 experiences.

 

[Leyasu]

I think in this particular case, its best for each member to deal with it how they see fit, not all have the same needs and resources, hence having EU interfere wouldnt be ideal unless there was a massive funding.

No. If they had planned an EU wide lockdown from the first cases no matter which country detected it, then some countries might not have been touched, and help could have gone if needed to where it was needed. Everything would have been reduced. Cases, countries affected, deaths, cost everything. The EU could have then pooled resources towards the economy afterwards.

Imagine if the lock down had happened two days after the first EU case? We could have been looking at a total number of cases at orders of magnitude less than today.... And it aint finished. The costs would have been dramatically less also.

 

[Foamy]

Avatar ready for the new world.

 

[Leyasu]

It's easy to say afterwards... nobody expected the epidemy to reach Europe with such strength. Especially after the SARS or H1N1 experiences.

No it is not. We are no longer living in 2002. How many flights a day are there between China and the rest of the world today (obviously pre-feb 2020) compared to 2002? China announced it towards of the end of January after saying that they detected it around new years eve 2019. IT HAD TO BE PRESUMED that it was out in the world. There were cases popping up in South Korea and Japan proving that that was the case. Chinese tourists are everywhere all the time.

Saying that nobody expected it means that they turned a blind eye and implies gross negligence. Normally a sackable offence at any workplace. Do not defend the indefensible.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

No it is not. We are no longer living in 2002. How many flights a day are there between China and the rest of the world today (obviously pre-feb 2020) compared to 2002? China announced it towards of the end of January after saying that they detected it around new years eve 2019. IT HAD TO BE PRESUMED that it was out in the world. There were cases popping up in South Korea and Japan proving that that was the case. Chinese tourists are everywhere all the time.

Saying that nobody expected it means that they turned a blind eye and implies gross negligence. Normally a sackable offence at any workplace. Do not defend the indefensible.

Congratulations on your amazing intellect and foresight. Too bad you weren't in charge of the majority of countries in the world, I guess.

 

[gamerMan]

Trump sent China 17.8 tons masks, ventilators, gowns, and other supplies around the end of January.

Did Trump Administration Send Masks, Ventilators and Other Medical Supplies to China?

A press release dated February 7, 2020, from the US State Department, informs us that the Trump administration “facilitated” the shipment of 17.8 tons of masks, ventilators, gowns, and other supplies to China. The CDC announced the first travel-related...

www.dailykos.com

Now USA just got an express shipment from China. 12 million gloves, 130,000 N95 masks, 1.7 million surgical masks, 50,000 gowns, 130,000 hand sanitizer units, and 36,000 thermometers. Hope the ones China sent actually work.

Inside the start of the great virus airlift

It starts what may become the largest government-led airlift of emergency medical supplies into the U.S.

www.axios.com

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

No. If they had planned an EU wide lockdown from the first cases no matter which country detected it, then some countries might not have been touched, and help could have gone if needed to where it was needed. Everything would have been reduced. Cases, countries affected, deaths, cost everything. The EU could have then pooled resources towards the economy afterwards.

Imagine if the lock down had happened two days after the first EU case? We could have been looking at a total number of cases at orders of magnitude less than today.... And it aint finished. The costs would have been dramatically less also.

I understand what you're saying, and its theoretically correct, however that would have never been practical.

Hell, even the US which is a single country couldnt do it, let alone the EU. Maybe in the next epidemic we can work better on this, but at this time it wouldnt have been possible.

 

[Leyasu]

Congratulations on your amazing intellect and foresight. Too bad you weren't in charge of the majority of countries in the world, I guess.

Well thought out reply. It is a shame that China locking down 50 million people wasn't considered a warning of the highest level by the people in charge,,,,

How anyone can defend the actions of most governments since the end of january is beyond belief. Prevention is and always will be better than the cure.

 

[Leyasu]

I understand what you're saying, and its theoretically correct, however that would have never been practical.

Hell, even the US which is a single country couldnt do it, let alone the EU. Maybe in the next epidemic we can work better on this, but at this time it wouldnt have been possible.

Practical? Please tell me what nearly every country in the EU is doing now? That's right, they are nearly all on lockdown or have major restrictions.

The same goes for the US.

The lessons from SARS in 2002 were ignored. The world dodged a bullet then. Now though... Shit has gotten real. We could be easily looking at a staggering number of fatalities world wide and a financial burden in the tens of trillions.

 

[cryptoadam]

Trump sent China 17.8 tons masks, ventilators, gowns, and other supplies around the end of January.

Did Trump Administration Send Masks, Ventilators and Other Medical Supplies to China?

A press release dated February 7, 2020, from the US State Department, informs us that the Trump administration “facilitated” the shipment of 17.8 tons of masks, ventilators, gowns, and other supplies to China. The CDC announced the first travel-related...

www.dailykos.com

Now USA just got an express shipment from China. 12 million gloves, 130,000 N95 masks, 1.7 million surgical masks, 50,000 gowns, 130,000 hand sanitizer units, and 36,000 thermometers. Hope the ones China sent actually work.

Inside the start of the great virus airlift

It starts what may become the largest government-led airlift of emergency medical supplies into the U.S.

www.axios.com

Trudope did the same thing and I gave him shit for it, and if Trump did this then he deserves getting shat on too.

All though it will be interesting to see the TDS heads attack Trump for giving supplies to China, yet they also opposed his China ban, and if he didn't send them supplies when they pleaded for help they would call him racist.

But ya China was hoarding supplies in January and Feburary. They knew that the rest of the world was going to get hit hard so they wanted to make sure they had a nice little stockpile and we didn't.

Thanks China.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well thought out reply. It is a shame that China locking down 50 million people wasn't considered a warning of the highest level by the people in charge,,,,

How anyone can defend the actions of most governments since the end of january is beyond belief. Prevention is and always will be better than the cure.

I just don't think it was in any way realistic to expect most governments to take sweeping freedom-restricting actions before it became clear that this would be a big deal outside of China. That's simply not how most governments and cultures are set up.

A lot of learnings for the future, but we haven't seen a mass pandemic like this in 100 years.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Someone shared this article with me (I have no idea what the source is), and I gotta say, I relate with a lot of it.

Why Flattening the Curve is Overrated

I’m about to upset a lot of people this week and I apologize in advance. I […]

www.pensford.com

 

[cryptoadam]

Canadian case demo's. TBH I would expect a bigger amount in the 20-40 age range due to more use of public transit and night life etc. 70+ only 16% should help keep our CFR down. 40-70 though will keep our ICU's on their toes.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Practical? Please tell me what nearly every country in the EU is doing now? That's right, they are nearly all on lockdown or have major restrictions.

The same goes for the US.

The lessons from SARS in 2002 were ignored. The world dodged a bullet then. Now though... Shit has gotten real. We could be easily looking at a staggering number of fatalities world wide and a financial burden in the tens of trillions.

SARS did not get real on a global level, neither did the swine flu, or avian flu, or ebola scares of the last decades. That led to a lot of people assuming this would just be another crazy China disease relegated for the most part.

 

[crowbrow]

Someone shared this article with me (I have no idea what the source is), and I gotta say, I relate with a lot of it.

Why Flattening the Curve is Overrated

I’m about to upset a lot of people this week and I apologize in advance. I […]

www.pensford.com

Without a vaccine our best bet is herd immunity over an extended period so that services don't get overwhelmed. Flattening the curve provides the time but won't stop the disease. I actually thing some of the latest governments to have the disease have implemented containing measures slowly and not extremely, they actually want the disease to spread for a bit to have a controllable number of cases. I'm not sure but I thought that was a possible explanation like with Mexico.

 

[All Hail C-Webb]

Someone shared this article with me (I have no idea what the source is), and I gotta say, I relate with a lot of it.

Why Flattening the Curve is Overrated

I’m about to upset a lot of people this week and I apologize in advance. I […]

www.pensford.com

The guy is an idiot, even his friends and family have let him know, and he still felt the need to share that stupid opinion.
It's not good that you can relate to what he's saying. Read what reputable Dr's and scientists (where you know the source), try to relate to what they're saying.

 

[Tesseract]

good info from trump about copay and deduct waivers, subsidies, so on

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The guy is an idiot, even his friends and family have let him know, and he still felt the need to share that stupid opinion.
It's not good that you can relate to what he's saying. Read what reputable Dr's and scientists (where you know the source), try to relate to what they're saying.

I don't think he's an idiot. At the same time, I think a lot of the reputable Dr's and scientists are right.

I just don't see how countries around the world "weather the storm" for more than a few more weeks. Shit will hit the fan if people get desperate enough to start looting.

 

[cryptoadam]

Someone shared this article with me (I have no idea what the source is), and I gotta say, I relate with a lot of it.

Why Flattening the Curve is Overrated

I’m about to upset a lot of people this week and I apologize in advance. I […]

www.pensford.com

There is going to have to be 2 phases but no one is talking about phase 2.

Phase 1 is the lockdowns/qurantines/slow down/flattening the curve etc... You need to do this to reign in the pandemic or else it will really just overwhelm everything. Its a sacrafice we have to make, because no one is willing to play russian roullette with peoples lives, especially democratically elected world leaders. You can't say well old people will die eventually and its less than those that die in car accidents each year so meh. That person would lose every vote they could ever think to get.

Phase 2 though is when we are like SK/HK/Taiwan, which right now no one in the West is talking about. Like what is the plan if/once we get cases down? Are we going to still have curfews, no sports matches, keeping old people locked up? Temperature checks everywhere, contact tracing via GPS cell phone data? Whats the plan when its "opened up"? There is no going back to pre January days. We will always have to be on our guard that this thing can pop up at any second. What if NYC in 2 months opens up again and then one day they get 10 cases is their a plan to close down again for 2 weeks?

The thing I find most intersting when I think about things sometimes is the phrase social distancing. 12 weeks ago no one would ever use that phrase, and now it is basically second nature to us. Its like we have grown up through our entire existence with social distancing. Propaganda has made that a term that permeates all of society.

We are going to have to learn new language and new ways of acting going forward. At some point there is going to have to be innovation and risk taking. There was a video of a man in Wuhan who even though there is risk decides to go to work every day, because he needs money. At some point thats going to happen across the globe. People will wear their mask, social distance, and go earn money because they have to live.

 

[gamerMan]

 

[oatmeal]

The peak likely to hit in 2 weeks?

 

[Cybrwzrd]

30 day extension.

 

[Tesseract]

'nothing would be worse than declaring victory before victory is won'

peak two weeks away

'we will defeat this invisible curse'

 

[gamerMan]

A lot of great information. Hopefully, we can innovate or find a drug to save as many lives.

 

[Tesseract]

glad trump is reiterating checks for adequate mask deployment, obv he'll get shit on by retards for this

but that's what a leader does, they take the hits

 

[oatmeal]

Trump blaming NYC hospitals for doing something fishy with PPE.

 

[nbcjr]

The thing is, EU has no authority on health management. That's one of the topics that are entirely under each member authority, for better or worse. The current situation would be a good opportunity to fix that actually, but for what it's worth it shows that we need more EU, not less of it.
Not that it would be an easy feat either. I mean if we had a EU-level management of the current crisis, it would probably mean we'd had to share our resources to fight the disease.

His suggestion of choosing schengen space is under Eu competence.

 

[oatmeal]

Cheers President Trump. This is our curve.

You keep posting this. You can probably stop now.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

We just went over 3000 deaths worldwide for today alone.

Wonder what the peak will be?

 

[Joe T.]

Trump seems to be handling this about as well as anyone in his position can be expected if you ask me. As soon as people present problems to him he finds ways of addressing them in very short order. Extending the measures currently in place until the end of April should ease the worries of his loudest critics. He is listening to the experts.

 

[lyan]

I just don't think it was in any way realistic to expect most governments to take sweeping freedom-restricting actions before it became clear that this would be a big deal outside of China. That's simply not how most governments and cultures are set up.

A lot of learnings for the future, but we haven't seen a mass pandemic like this in 100 years.

Well they could have enforced strict border controls / screenings, worked out pretty well for Taiwan.

 

[Tesseract]

good info about spread mitigation here, realities of work and life balance over the coming months

 

[Batiman]

glad trump is reiterating checks for adequate mask deployment, obv he'll get shit on by retards for this

but that's what a leader does, they take the hits

He deserves to take more than hits. The man is a joke and couldn’t of handled this whole thing any worse

 

[Tesseract]

He deserves to take more than hits. The man is a joke and couldn’t of handled this whole thing any worse

you are a fucking joke, mate

 

[oatmeal]

He deserves to take more than hits. The man is a joke and couldn’t of handled this whole thing any worse

I bet you would have done worse. Some say you would have done the worst job. A lot of people say that.

 

[Batiman]

you are a fucking joke, mate

How can anyone defend this fucker after all this? Unbelievable.

 

[Tesseract]

Trump seems to be handling this about as well as anyone in his position can be expected if you ask me. As soon as people present problems to him he finds ways of addressing them in very short order. Extending the measures currently in place until the end of April should ease the worries of his loudest critics. He is listening to the experts.

idiots will say otherwise, the 'why didn't we do x or y' types with perfect foresight re: the machinations of government

Batiman types, retards

 

[oatmeal]

WAS SAYING EASTER A MISTAKE?

What kind of question is that?

 

[Tesseract]

How can anyone defend this fucker after all this? Unbelievable.

you are a low iq individual

 

[Batiman]

you are a low iq individual

You’d have to be brain dead or just delusional to defend him after this mess. Lmfao.

 

[ManaByte]

This Bloomberg guy is a dumbass.

 

[Tesseract]

You’d have to be brain dead or just delusional to defend him after this mess. Lmfao.

low iq, paltry

probably limited muscle mass, potential dough boy

 

[cryptoadam]

WAS SAYING EASTER A MISTAKE?

What kind of question is that?

They are pissed, all the articles they wrote in advance saying how opening up on Easter was a disaster and all the deaths they were going to lay on Trumps feet just went out the window.

They complained it was too soon and Trump listened to them and now they will complain he listened to them and changed his timeline. They are truely the enemy of the people.

Which is ironic because the scare stream media were the ones publishing articles saying the Flu was worse, so when Trump repeats it though then he is wrong. When they call it the Wuhan/China virus, and Trump repeats it then he is racist.

But like I said in the other thread Trump gave the media some softballs when he made that announcment because there was little chance he would stick to it. So now they have the red meat they need to write article after article about how Trump is a liar and failure for not opening up again. Its win win for them. Either Trump opens up and more die, or Trump doesn't open up and he is a liar and failure.

 

[oatmeal]

Damn media feisty as fuck today

 

[Leyasu]

I just don't think it was in any way realistic to expect most governments to take sweeping freedom-restricting actions before it became clear that this would be a big deal outside of China. That's simply not how most governments and cultures are set up.

A lot of learnings for the future, but we haven't seen a mass pandemic like this in 100 years.

I also understand where you are coming from. But the delay between China announcing it to the WHO and their discovering it was about three weeks give or take. Then they locked down 50 million people in January. Days before it had reached europe. So a lockdown straight away was out of the question. But 5 weeks elapsed in europe before countries started their own. Enough time for the EU to coordinate things.

SARS did not get real on a global level, neither did the swine flu, or avian flu, or ebola scares of the last decades. That led to a lot of people assuming this would just be another crazy China disease relegated for the most part.

SARS hit over 30 countries. The swine and avian flus are nowhere near as lethal and Ebola isn't that easily spread. The first SARS although more lethal, didn't spread like this one. Hence the difference in response in China. As I wrote above, cases were popping up everywhere in january, there was no way governments should have still been considering this a Chinese problem.

Anyway, we could go on all night. Nobody is going to convince the other here. I will leave it at that.

 

[ManaByte]

He's nuking the media today.

 

[oatmeal]

Man imagine trying to show up the President.