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[Tesseract]

Don't nobody give a F about Corona virus

www.neogaf.com

 

[bRacing]

California, Florida and Texas report highest daily coronavirus death tolls

The country's three biggest states are reporting their largest one-day death tolls since the pandemic began.

www.cbsnews.com

We having fun yet

It's just the flu, man!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Curve still looks flat to me. The other two states have similar trends. Also death per million for each state is under 200 and nowhere near the 1500 from New York who wrecked the Assisted Living. Better lock down the states again.... maybe get the curve even flatter to the point where it is smooth.... it is possible I suppose.

We'll see what happens next week. We're seeing the 7-day average climb for the first time in a while nationwide. If it continues through next week, it's definitely something to be concerned about in my opinion.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Last time we had a blip at the end of May/beginning of June, so hopefully this is similar and we go back to trending downwards.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This been shared yet?

EXCLUSIVE: Chinese virologist accuses Beijing of cover-up: 'I know how they treat whistleblowers'

Li-Meng Yan told Fox News that she believes China knew about the coronavirus well before it claimed it did. She says her supervisors also ignored research she was doing that she believes could have saved lives.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Joe T.]

It's just the flu, man!

I'll take the opportunity to counter that sarcasm with some historical perspective.

"In 1965, researchers discovered a vexing respiratory infection called 229E. Today, we know it as the common cold." -Forbes

In 2016, a 45-year-old schoolteacher in Athens, Greece, arrived at the emergency room of the Hygeia Hospital. A non-smoker with no major health issues, she presented with unusual symptoms— a fever over 103 degrees, a dry cough and severe headache. When the ER doctor examined her, it was noted that the lower part of her left lung was rattling when she breathed, and a chest X-ray confirmed an abnormality.

Thinking this a case of bacterial pneumonia, doctors treated her with antibiotics. But over the next two days, the woman’s condition deteriorated—and the pneumonia lab test came back negative. As her breathing began to fail, she was supplied with oxygen and a new set of medications. Meanwhile, she was tested for a broad variety of possible culprits, including various strains of the flu, the bacteria that cause Legionnaires disease, whooping cough, and other serious respiratory diseases. All came back negative, as did tests for SARS and MERS.

In fact, only one test turned up positive, but it was a result so surprising that doctors ran it again. The result was the same: the patient was suffering from a familiar but inscrutable infection known as 229E—the first human coronavirus ever discovered.

The severity of the schoolteacher’s condition would have come as a surprise to the researchers in the early 1960s who discovered 229E. That’s because they were looking for the viruses responsible for the common cold. By the mid-20th century, scientists had worked out techniques to isolate some viruses, but their research left many strains unaccounted for—about 35% of people with colds had viruses that scientists weren’t able to identify.

While the discovery of novel coronaviruses like 229E and OC43 generated great media interest at the time—one article boldly proclaimed that “science has tripled its chance for eventually licking the common cold”—Dr. McIntosh recalls that the scientific community didn’t actively focus on investigating coronaviruses again until the emergence of SARS in 2003. Because 229E and OC43 caused relatively mild illnesses in people, doctors could treat them much like colds caused by other viruses: fever reducers, cough suppressants and the occasional bowl of chicken soup.

Since then, two more coronaviruses that also cause colds—NL63 and HKU1—have been discovered. And it wasn’t until 2012—nearly 50 years after its discovery—that the complete genome of 229E was finally sequenced. In the meantime, a number of case reports were published showing that 229E could potentially cause severe respiratory symptoms in patients with compromised immune symptoms, though for most healthy people its impact is mostly limited to a cold.

The schoolteacher in Greece eventually recovered from her illness and thankfully never required the use of a ventilator to aid her breathing. Scans of her lungs taken two years after her original trip to the ER showed that they had recovered and were healthy. Still, this severe response to what most people consider “just a cold” highlights one of the most difficult aspects of dealing with coronaviruses—they produce a vast range of symptoms with a wide amount of health impacts across the population.

Just food for thought.

 

[segasonic]

Bookmarked your post. We'll see who is right. The fearmongers can only piss on people and convince them it's raining for so long.

You can delete your bookmark now.

 

[HellforLeather]

This been shared yet?

EXCLUSIVE: Chinese virologist accuses Beijing of cover-up: 'I know how they treat whistleblowers'

Li-Meng Yan told Fox News that she believes China knew about the coronavirus well before it claimed it did. She says her supervisors also ignored research she was doing that she believes could have saved lives.

www.foxnews.com

Imagine the sheer balls it takes to completely abandon your life and everything you know.

 

[bRacing]

I'll take the opportunity to counter that sarcasm with some historical perspective.

"In 1965, researchers discovered a vexing respiratory infection called 229E. Today, we know it as the common cold." -Forbes

Just food for thought.

More food for thought - Corpus Christi Just said they can’t fit any more bodies in the morgue. When was the last flu season they said that in?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

This been shared yet?

EXCLUSIVE: Chinese virologist accuses Beijing of cover-up: 'I know how they treat whistleblowers'

Li-Meng Yan told Fox News that she believes China knew about the coronavirus well before it claimed it did. She says her supervisors also ignored research she was doing that she believes could have saved lives.

www.foxnews.com

RIP

 

[Joe T.]

More food for thought - Corpus Christi Just said they can’t fit any more bodies in the morgue. When was the last flu season they said that in?

I decided to play your game and in mere seconds this came up, not about a virus at all but the opioid crisis back in 2017:

Ohio coroner calls in 'mobile morgue' because of overdose deaths

The Stark County coroner in Canton had a “cold storage mass casualty trailer” trucked-in on Saturday because the morgue was overflowing with bodies.

www.nbcnews.com

More recent, January this year:

Even the morgue is over capacity at The Ottawa Hospital

The Ottawa Hospital, which has struggled to cope with overcrowding in recent years, is facing a new challenge: an overflowing morgue.

ottawacitizen.com

You're projecting an excessive amount of concern, maybe even borderline panic. Is this your personal opinion on the state of the world today or are you simply trying to instill it in others? Honest question.

 

[Insane Metal]

This been shared yet?

EXCLUSIVE: Chinese virologist accuses Beijing of cover-up: 'I know how they treat whistleblowers'

Li-Meng Yan told Fox News that she believes China knew about the coronavirus well before it claimed it did. She says her supervisors also ignored research she was doing that she believes could have saved lives.

www.foxnews.com

Holy shit.

Dirty scumbags. All of them. And the WHO.

 

[bRacing]

I decided to play your game and in mere seconds this came up, not about a virus at all but the opioid crisis back in 2017:

Ohio coroner calls in 'mobile morgue' because of overdose deaths

The Stark County coroner in Canton had a “cold storage mass casualty trailer” trucked-in on Saturday because the morgue was overflowing with bodies.

www.nbcnews.com

More recent, January this year:

Even the morgue is over capacity at The Ottawa Hospital

The Ottawa Hospital, which has struggled to cope with overcrowding in recent years, is facing a new challenge: an overflowing morgue.

ottawacitizen.com

You're projecting an excessive amount of concern, maybe even borderline panic. Is this your personal opinion on the state of the world today or are you simply trying to instill it in others? Honest question.

It’s not projecting when the actual experts have told us what exactly will happen every step of the way. And the deaths now are from infections in May, which means the deaths from June and July are going to be nuts. Thats not me projecting, that’s from the governor of Texas. But sure, maybe I should just trust the ideas of forum goers who have been wrong every step of the way. Just the flu, guys!

 

[cryptoadam]

record number of cases is a misnomer.

If you could do this many test per day in NY back in March/April/May you probably would have found 1-2 million cases.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

record number of cases is a misnomer.

If you could do this many test per day in NY back in March/April/May you probably would have found 1-2 million cases.

Nah, the positive infection rate is up, too.

Daily Testing Trends in the US - Johns Hopkins

See daily changes in tests performed and positivity rates in the US

coronavirus.jhu.edu

We're back to where we were in mid-May.

 

[cryptoadam]

Nah, the positive infection rate is up, too.

Daily Testing Trends in the US - Johns Hopkins

See daily changes in tests performed and positivity rates in the US

coronavirus.jhu.edu

We're back to where we were in mid-May.

non stop protests gonna do that. No sunlight when the sun goes down to kill the virus either.

There are still protest going on now even while "lockdowns" are coming back LOL.

 

[Joe T.]

It’s not projecting when the actual experts have told us what exactly will happen every step of the way. And the deaths now are from infections in May, which means the deaths from June and July are going to be nuts. Thats not me projecting, that’s from the governor of Texas. But sure, maybe I should just trust the ideas of forum goers who have been wrong every step of the way. Just the flu, guys!

You failed to answer the question. Am I supposed to read your answer to mean you're in a panic?

 

[poppabk]

That's the thing. No vaccine in history has ever produced better immunity than natural immunity. If anything it is generally weaker and shorter lived. Sometimes drastically so. The only advantage (and yes depending on the virus it's a massive advantage) for vaccines is you get some level of immunity without having to suffer through the full fledged virus. The advantage here is less clear though since the large majority of cases are mild or asymptomatic. I guess the advantage may ultimately be more psychological than anything.... people will 'feel better' about reopening and getting back out there even if it isn't a silver bullet. Kind of like the masks. They may help, but they don't magically make 10,000 person protests safe if they weren't without them.

You have examples? Immunity from a vaccine and 'natural' immunity are effectively the same thing, especially as you move to immunological memory.

 

[Insane Metal]

Holy. Shit.



O_O

 

[Halo is Back]

Holy. Shit.



O_O

If this keeps up big states will be in lockdown again

 

[poppabk]

If this keeps up big states will be in lockdown again

It depends, if the death rate doesn't spike up then we might carry on as is, the only problem is that the lag from detected infection to death means that if the death rate does spike we will be really fucked.

 

[Halo is Back]

It depends, if the death rate doesn't spike up then we might carry on as is, the only problem is that the lag from detected infection to death means that if the death rate does spike we will be really fucked.

I think it's too early to look at death rates considering the surge in new cases so we will have to wait a few more weeks to see an accurate trend. With that said, I do expect death rates to go down considering more ventilators are available and we have had more experience in treating these people

 

[Insane Metal]

Pathologist found blood clots in ‘almost every organ’ during autopsies on COVID-19 patients

Pathologist found blood clots in ‘almost every organ’ during autopsies on Covid-19 patients

fox8.com

 

[iBleedSilverNBlue]

Just to confirm the majority on this forum believe the significant increase in positive cases is due to BLM protests?

 

[Halo is Back]

Just to confirm the majority on this forum believe the significant increase in positive cases is due to BLM protests?

No, there are many factors that contributed like opening up, people partying up like it's nothing and not wearing masks but they sure didn't help the situation.

 

[cryptoadam]

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence - Nature Medicine

Ralph Baric, Vineet Menachery and colleagues characterize a SARS-like coronavirus circulating in Chinese horseshoe bats to determine its potential to infect primary human airway epithelial cells, cause disease in mice and respond to available therapeutics.

www.nature.com

The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)-CoV underscores the threat of cross-species transmission events leading to outbreaks in humans. Here we examine the disease potential of a SARS-like virus, SHC014-CoV, which is currently circulating in Chinese horseshoe bat populations1. Using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system2, we generated and characterized a chimeric virus expressing the spike of bat coronavirus SHC014 in a mouse-adapted SARS-CoV backbone. The results indicate that group 2b viruses encoding the SHC014 spike in a wild-type backbone can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV. Additionally, in vivo experiments demonstrate replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis. Evaluation of available SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein. On the basis of these findings, we synthetically re-derived an infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus and demonstrate robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo. Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.

Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture

Increasing the intracellular Zn[2+] concentration with zinc-ionophores like pyrithione (PT) can efficiently impair the replication of a variety of RNA viruses, including poliovirus and influenza virus. For some viruses this effect has been attributed ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Increasing the intracellular Zn2+ concentration with zinc-ionophores like pyrithione (PT) can efficiently impair the replication of a variety of RNA viruses, including poliovirus and influenza virus. For some viruses this effect has been attributed to interference with viral polyprotein processing. In this study we demonstrate that the combination of Zn2+ and PT at low concentrations (2 µM Zn2+ and 2 µM PT) inhibits the replication of SARS-coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and equine arteritis virus (EAV) in cell culture. The RNA synthesis of these two distantly related nidoviruses is catalyzed by an RNA-dependent RNA polymerase (RdRp), which is the core enzyme of their multiprotein replication and transcription complex (RTC). Using an activity assay for RTCs isolated from cells infected with SARS-CoV or EAV—thus eliminating the need for PT to transport Zn2+ across the plasma membrane—we show that Zn2+ efficiently inhibits the RNA-synthesizing activity of the RTCs of both viruses.

 

[poppabk]

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence - Nature Medicine

Ralph Baric, Vineet Menachery and colleagues characterize a SARS-like coronavirus circulating in Chinese horseshoe bats to determine its potential to infect primary human airway epithelial cells, cause disease in mice and respond to available therapeutics.

www.nature.com

. Evaluation of available SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein

Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture

Increasing the intracellular Zn[2+] concentration with zinc-ionophores like pyrithione (PT) can efficiently impair the replication of a variety of RNA viruses, including poliovirus and influenza virus. For some viruses this effect has been attributed ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

we show that Zn2+ efficiently inhibits the RNA-synthesizing activity of the RTCs of both viruses.

I am not entirely sure what you are getting at by positing the above but -
1) SARS therauptics being useless against COVID 19 is not exactly news
2) You can't increase your Zinc levels in vivo to a point that it would impact the virus

 

[Sign]

Just to confirm the majority on this forum believe the significant increase in positive cases is due to BLM protests?

Even if one could prove that not a single-solitary-case came from the protests, locking down is a collective effort. When it became clear that one can be arrested for opening their business, but literal terrorists can burn, loot, and murder with impunity and cover from the """""""""""""""experts""""""""""""""". . . that some of us are more equal than others -that was that.

 

[prag16]

You can delete your bookmark now.

How blistered is your rod right now? You must have been jerking it three days straight to the modest increase in the 7 day moving average (far smaller than the increase in 'cases' I might add). Is the whole thing swollen, raw, or both?

You're projecting an excessive amount of concern, maybe even borderline panic. Is this your personal opinion on the state of the world today or are you simply trying to instill it in others? Honest question.

If it isn't obvious by now, a certain segment of people in this thread absolutely thrive on jerking off to the fear porn.

 

[prag16]

It’s not projecting when the actual experts have told us what exactly will happen every step of the way. And the deaths now are from infections in May, which means the deaths from June and July are going to be nuts. Thats not me projecting, that’s from the governor of Texas. But sure, maybe I should just trust the ideas of forum goers who have been wrong every step of the way. Just the flu, guys!

I'm having trouble keeping up. Segasonic says deaths should lag cases by around 18 days, but now you're saying, what, 60 days? Goalposts perpetually on the move like always.

Nah, the positive infection rate is up, too.

Daily Testing Trends in the US - Johns Hopkins

See daily changes in tests performed and positivity rates in the US

coronavirus.jhu.edu

We're back to where we were in mid-May.

I saw at least one report of a third party lab in Florida only reporting positives to the state. Obviously that would skew the positivity rate if this is happening to any significant extent. On my phone now, can't find the article at the moment.

You have examples? Immunity from a vaccine and 'natural' immunity are effectively the same thing, especially as you move to immunological memory.

You serious? Search the pubmed database for "vaccine immunity waning" and you'll find tons of studies. They're not the same thing.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Just to confirm the majority on this forum believe the significant increase in positive cases is due to BLM protests?

It sure would be hard to argue that it did not contribute significantly. Possibly even more so than the protests themselves, I think a large part of the country saw people marching in the streets and just said "fuck it" to the whole staying at home thing. The hypocrisy displayed by the media and "experts" had never been so blatant and it was very clear if it was not before that, no, we are not "all in this together."

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm having trouble keeping up. Segasonic says deaths should lag cases by around 18 days, but now you're saying, what, 60 days? Goalposts perpetually on the move like always.

I saw at least one report of a third party lab in Florida only reporting positives to the state. Obviously that would skew the positivity rate if this is happening to any significant extent. On my phone now, can't find the article at the moment.

You serious? Search the pubmed database for "vaccine immunity waning" and you'll find tons of studies. They're not the same thing.

It's been about 20~22 days since confirmed cases and positive testing rates really started climbing.

 

[bRacing]

I'm having trouble keeping up. Segasonic says deaths should lag cases by around 18 days, but now you're saying, what, 60 days? Goalposts perpetually on the move like always.

I saw at least one report of a third party lab in Florida only reporting positives to the state. Obviously that would skew the positivity rate if this is happening to any significant extent. On my phone now, can't find the article at the moment.

You serious? Search the pubmed database for "vaccine immunity waning" and you'll find tons of studies. They're not the same thing.

Except I didn’t say it. The governor of Texas said it. You remember him, he’s the idiot who reopened his state way too early and is now openly regretting it.

 

[poppabk]

You serious? Search the pubmed database for "vaccine immunity waning" and you'll find tons of studies. They're not the same thing.

Natural immunity also wanes. How exactly is a B and T cell memory population raised against a partially deactivated virus and translated viral proteins different to one raised against a live virus? Why wouldn't they have broadly the same epitope recognition, recognize the same MHC restricted peptides? Why would see increased senescence in one population over the other?

 

[cryptoadam]

I am not entirely sure what you are getting at by positing the above but -
1) SARS therauptics being useless against COVID 19 is not exactly news
2) You can't increase your Zinc levels in vivo to a point that it would impact the virus

That was the point.

Article 1 is from 2015. Vaccines and therapeutics didn't work on the chimeric virus they created in GOF experiments.

I wouldn't put too much faith in hoping for the magic vaccine.

There have been studies showing Zinc+HCQ taken early can have efficacy against the virus.

Consider that the same Dr Braics was author on both articles.

 

[prag16]

Natural immunity also wanes. How exactly is a B and T cell memory population raised against a partially deactivated virus and translated viral proteins different to one raised against a live virus? Why wouldn't they have broadly the same epitope recognition, recognize the same MHC restricted peptides? Why would see increased senescence in one population over the other?

You tell me. You use a lot of big words to try to sound impressive, but you don't seem to have actually read in depth on this topic. Because it's in the literature, over and over and over. Don't know what else to tell you. Even the most ardent vaccination supporters generally admit this too, but argue that the risk of actually having the infection outweighs the benefits of natural immunity, so they recommened occasional boosters.

 

[cryptoadam]

Spoiler: CHARTS

Hospitilizations in Texas were flat in May, and then started shooting up about 1.5-2 weeks into June. Right in line with all the George Floyd stuff.

Hospitilization by age according to CDC charts is up for 18-49, flat for 50-64, and slight decline for 65+

 

[poppabk]

You tell me. You use a lot of big words to try to sound impressive, but you don't seem to have actually read in depth on this topic. Because it's in the literature, over and over and over. Don't know what else to tell you. Even the most ardent vaccination supporters generally admit this too, but argue that the risk of actually having the infection outweighs the benefits of natural immunity, so they recommened occasional boosters.

Well give us a link that shows a significant difference between a natural immunity memory period and the vaccine induced immunity memory.

 

[12Goblins]

70,000 cases today...

 

[sinnergy]

California, Florida and Texas report highest daily coronavirus death tolls

The country's three biggest states are reporting their largest one-day death tolls since the pandemic began.

www.cbsnews.com

We having fun yet

#justflubro don’t behave responsible!

 

[segasonic]

It depends, if the death rate doesn't spike up then we might carry on as is, the only problem is that the lag from detected infection to death means that if the death rate does spike we will be really fucked.

Why would it not spike? Miracle from god? It is already unavoidable that they will spike and the spike has already started. It will get MUCH worse.

 

[segasonic]

How blistered is your rod right now? You must have been jerking it three days straight to the modest increase in the 7 day moving average (far smaller than the increase in 'cases' I might add). Is the whole thing swollen, raw, or both?

I mean you‘re the one who bookmarked my prediction, already giddy in proving me wrong. Now that I am right, me and every one else in this thread who bring the facts and warn people to take this shit seriously and save people‘s lives are the ones „jerking off“ to „fear porn“. You are quite delusional and the way you argue is disgusting. People like you are responsible for thousands of deaths.

 

[Jezbollah]

70,000 cases today...

For reference the UK has a current overal total of 288,000...

 

[Joe T.]

"Why don't people trust the experts?"

NBC News Spent Weeks Reporting On A Contributor’s Journey Battling Coronavirus – But He Never Had It

NBC News spent weeks documenting its science contributor's battle with COVID-19, but now he says that he never had it.

dailycaller.com

“In the end, NBC’s viewers were left with two very alarming – and false – impressions,” Krakauer wrote. “First, that an expert virologist can take every precaution but can still catch COVID-19 through his eyes. False. Second, that tests can be so untrustworthy that you can have multiple negative tests and still have coronavirus.”

NBC News has not yet updated its May 14 article claiming the virologist got “coronavirus despite being in good health and taking precautions.”

Does anyone here still have a high degree of trust in the major/mainstream news? If so, what country/outlet(s)?

 

[Chittagong]

For reference the UK has a current overal total of 288,000...

Wow, that really puts things into perspective. It does seem that there is a pretty short window when stomping on the outbreak is effective. What is surprising is that once you do it, the virus doesn’t seem to bounce back as quickly.

I mean, at the moment the amount of infected is probably in early/mid March figures in the UK, but we are not seeing similar acceleration yet.

 

[sinnergy]

For reference the UK has a current overal total of 288,000...

Yes , because you find less infections if the measures worked even with more testing.

 

[pLow7]

Wow, that really puts things into perspective. It does seem that there is a pretty short window when stomping on the outbreak is effective. What is surprising is that once you do it, the virus doesn’t seem to bounce back as quickly.

I mean, at the moment the amount of infected is probably in early/mid March figures in the UK, but we are not seeing similar acceleration yet.

To put it even more into perspective:

The whole month of June, 436 people died in Germany. On Thursday alone, 960 people died in the US, that's more than double of the deaths that germany had in a whole month.

Germany reopened in May.

 

[BadBurger]

Here we are in July with all the evidence in the world that basic testing and contact tracing works. That wearing masks work. Even looking back upon epidemics of old. But we did none of this thanks to Trump in the US so we're still in the boiling middle of it.

Meanwhile Canadians and such, whose countries did the right things and are now OK, come and chastise Americans for wanting to do the same things their countries did to bring the epidemic under control.

2020. Enjoy.

 

[bRacing]

Larry Brilliant on How Well We Are Fighting Covid-19

Three months ago, the epidemiologist weighed in on what we must do to defeat this new threat. We went back to ask: How are we doing, and what comes next?

www.wired.com

 

[sinnergy]

Here we are in July with all the evidence in the world that basic testing and contact tracing works. That wearing masks work. Even looking back upon epidemics of old. But we did none of this thanks to Trump in the US so we're still in the boiling middle of it.

Meanwhile Canadians and such, whose countries did the right things and are now OK, come and chastise Americans for wanting to do the same things their countries did to bring the epidemic under control.

2020. Enjoy.

Yup, but you have power to not elect him for a next term if you like.

I always thought he was a business man with a good feel for business, I thought he was somewhat decent as president ( I liked Obama better) minus all the social drama.
But to me he showed his true colors with the pandemic, totally out of touch with reality .
Where other leaders showed leadership and well thought out strategies... this all turned into a circus show.

 

[ManaByte]